Tithing question

[interalia]

My mother died a few months back and the money she left for me has come in. It is life insurance money - a portion of the total given to each member of the family. Do I tithe on this? I wanted to be sure.

Edited April 14, 2009 by interalia

[BenRaines]

Is it an increase to you? If so we are to tithe on our increase.

Ben Raines

[interalia]

That is the simplest way I took it, but then again my income tax refund is an increase to me, but I don't tithe on that, having tithed on the taxable income previously.

If I am to tithe on it, does this mean I tithe on all gifts? I'm just not sure - never been in this situation before. I've always been a full tithe payer.

[skippy740]

Life Insurance is designed to be an economic replacement tool, not as an "increase".

You have lost your mother. To the extent that you were (may have) been financially dependent upon her is the same extent that this insurance money is to "make you whole" after your loss. According to this particular definition, I wouldn't consider this an "increase".

If you have NOT been financially or economically dependent upon your mother, then this IS an increase and should be tithed.

This is from a life insurance agent perspective.

I don't know if this will help, but at least it may give you an idea on how you may make the decision.

[talisyn]

I'm sorry for your loss

[Guest]

That is the simplest way I took it, but then again my income tax refund is an increase to me, but I don't tithe on that, having tithed on the taxable income previously.

If I am to tithe on it, does this mean I tithe on all gifts? I'm just not sure - never been in this situation before. I've always been a full tithe payer.

Income Tax Refund is not an increase to you. It is a refund on an overpayment. It is the same as buying groceries at the store and realized you paid $10.00 more than what you purchased, so you go back to the store and ask for the $10.00 back, so they give it to you. It's not an increase...

I don't tithe on gifts because there is no monetary value to it - at least, the gifts I've received in my lifetime.

But, if my dad gives me $10,000 to help me buy a house, I'm not sure what to do with that. I've never been in that position. I'm not sure what the position of the church is on this one. Maybe somebody can come along and explain this one. This would be the same as your inheritance, I think.

[tubaloth]

Talk to your bishop about it. Gifts are in the gray area. (and that probably well be what your bishop says).

[Guest Alana]

I would tithe on life insurance money after any expenses or bills of the deceased are paid.

Also, with my income tax return, I do tithe on the excess amount. We paid about 3k in taxes, but we get 5k back because of kids and EIC etc. SO I tithe on the amount over the 3k, so two thousand. Also, if I sell a car I dont' tithe on that unless it's more than what I bought the car for, which does happen on occasion;)

As far as gifts go, I don't think that's a gray area. It's tithe-able. Gifts, earned income, pennies found on the ground, selling something that was given to you, any increase. Not on loans.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Alana

[Just_A_Guy]

Income Tax Refund is not an increase to you. It is a refund on an overpayment. It is the same as buying groceries at the store and realized you paid $10.00 more than what you purchased, so you go back to the store and ask for the $10.00 back, so they give it to you. It's not an increase...

I would submit that it is increase if it comes out of refundable credits. Refundable credits are basically free money from the government.

[Madriglace]

Your choice .... live the letter of the Law or the Spirit of the law .... it's all the Lords money anyhow. When in doubt pray and follow the spirit of the law.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Talk to your bishop about it.

I'm not a bishop (although I sort of look like one from the early days of the church), but if I were, I'd say "Do what you think is right. Our HF isn't some sort of accountant. He's some sort of parent. If you feel good or satisfied about it, it's perfectly OK."

[TruthSeekerToo]

The official statement from the First Presidency is the only thing binding. This is what they have said.

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually, which is understood to mean income. NO ONE IS JUSTIFIED IN MAKING ANY OTHER STATEMENT THAN THIS. We feel that every member of the Church should be ENTITLED TO MAKE HIS OWN DECISION as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.” (End of quote from the March 19, 1970 letter.)

No one is allowed to give any other definition. :)

I go with what the Spirit leads me to do. And I am sorry for your loss, too. (((hugs)))

[LDSVALLEY]

I tell our new members that different people have different view points. Some pay net some gross, I know one person who estimated value of Christmas gifts etc and paid on those. I was told you don;t pay on Welfare, Employment insurance or government money etc. Even different Bishops have different opinions about it.

I tell the New Converts to think what they believe an honest tithing is, ask advice from the Bishop, then take what they believe is correct to the Lord and he will guide them. Don't worry about what opinions we have, get the general guidelines and let the Lord decide.

As a tithe payer you know the general guidelines, simply ask the Lord if you should pay tithing on it or not.

[Vort]

I'm not a bishop (although I sort of look like one from the early days of the church), but if I were, I'd say "Do what you think is right. Our HF isn't some sort of accountant. He's some sort of parent. If you feel good or satisfied about it, it's perfectly OK."

I don't think you know what you would say if you were a bishop.

I'm some sort of parent, too, but I don't find anything my children do to be "perfectly OK" just because they might feel satisfied about it.

I know of a Latter-day Saint making a six-figure salary who said, "I got a $10,000 raise this year, so my increase was $10,000. Therefore, my tithing this year is $1000." I expect he felt pretty good about this. I don't believe for a moment that this fulfilled the law of tithing in God's eyes, though of course I'm happy to leave that judgment to God.

The point is, just because you "feel good or satisfied about" your tithing decision doesn't mean it's correct.

[Madriglace]

I tell our new members that different people have different view points. Some pay net some gross, I know one person who estimated value of Christmas gifts etc and paid on those. I was told you don;t pay on Welfare, Employment insurance or government money etc. Even different Bishops have different opinions about it.

I tell the New Converts to think what they believe an honest tithing is, ask advice from the Bishop, then take what they believe is correct to the Lord and he will guide them. Don't worry about what opinions we have, get the general guidelines and let the Lord decide.

As a tithe payer you know the general guidelines, simply ask the Lord if you should pay tithing on it or not.

I was out of work for a year and paid tithing on unemployement every week ... if I hadn't I wouldn't have made it throught to the new job. I take Him quite literallly in His promise to pour out more blessings than I can handle. During the time I had no money coming in I worried because I could not pay tithing but had the peace in knowing that the Lord knew my circumstances and was aware of my desire to do what He had asked. The more you pay the better it gets ... the Lord isn't stingey with His blessings why should we work to keep His money from Him? If it comes in ... pay on it ... and then watch what happens.

[TruthSeekerToo]

The more you pay the better it gets ... the Lord isn't stingey with His blessings why should we work to keep His money from Him? If it comes in ... pay on it ... and then watch what happens.

I am not sure what you mean by the part I bolded. Do you mean that millionaires get more blessings because they are paying more $ in tithes than poor people? Or do you mean that a full tithe payer gets more blessings than a partial tither?

Because I have to disagree that the more dollars you pay in the more blessings that come out. That is not found anywhere in our doctrine.

Sorry if I totally misunderstood you!

Everything belongs to God. It is all His. We are to be responsible stewards over all that He gives us.

[Madriglace]

I am not sure what you mean by the part I bolded. Do you mean that millionaires get more blessings because they are paying more $ in tithes than poor people? Or do you mean that a full tithe payer gets more blessings than a partial tither?

Because I have to disagree that the more dollars you pay in the more blessings that come out. That is not found anywhere in our doctrine.

Sorry if I totally misunderstood you!

Everything belongs to God. It is all His. We are to be responsible stewards over all that He gives us.

Tithing is related to the individual person and their individual circumstances. What you pay is absolutely not my business. And yes the more you pay your tithing and offerings the better it gets. No doctrine, no proof just alot of experience. I have also noticed that the blessings increase not only with what you pay but how you pay as well. Say if you pay your tithing grudgingly you are still going to be blessed ... but if you pay tithing and offerings with a glad heart, in gratitude ... the blessings grow and grow. Remember the Savior said the widows mite was better than all the tithes of the elders because she gave all she had. So it's not a matter of who you are or how much (dollar wise) but where your heart is and how much (all you have).

PS One of my favorite stories in Church history was of Mary Fielding Smith ... she had her family gather all the best (not just part of the crop but the BEST) of her crop to take to the Bishops store house to pay her tithing. When she got there the person in charge told her she didn't need to pay because she was a widow with a family to raise and she couldn't spare the portion of her crop. She basically put them in their place by telling them that if she did not pay her tithing she would never be able to take care of her family. All I know is that the more I stretch and pay my tithing and offerings, adding alittle here and there as I can ... the better it gets.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Madriglace

[LDSVALLEY]

I was out of work for a year and paid tithing on unemployement every week ... if I hadn't I wouldn't have made it throught to the new job. I take Him quite literallly in His promise to pour out more blessings than I can handle. During the time I had no money coming in I worried because I could not pay tithing but had the peace in knowing that the Lord knew my circumstances and was aware of my desire to do what He had asked. The more you pay the better it gets ... the Lord isn't stingey with His blessings why should we work to keep His money from Him? If it comes in ... pay on it ... and then watch what happens.

Please note I didn't say a person should not pay tithing on government assistance money, simply that I had been told when I joined that it was not expected as it is funds given not something we earn. Like I mentioned different Bishops have given different advise on the issue.

[Madriglace]

Please note I didn't say a person should not pay tithing on government assistance money, simply that I had been told when I joined that it was not expected as it is funds given not something we earn. Like I mentioned different Bishops have given different advise on the issue.

Understood ... I guess as a reformed non-tith pay I wonder why members of the church work so hard trying to figure out what NOT to pay the Lord? I have been told that you pay on the net not the gross because you don't get the tax money, or like someone told you that you don't pay on unemployment or gifts or what ever. My way of thinking is that the Lord gives all of it to us and that 10% of what ever comes in is so little to ask and when you factor in all the blessings it is really nothing.

[LDSVALLEY]

Tithing was the one thing that held up my joining the church. I actually was allowed to join without agreeing to pay it. A wise Bishop put it in terms I could relate to after I was a member for 2 years but only showing up once in a while. My wife had to pay it for us at first as I felt sick every time I thought of it. Now I am the one who makes sure it gets paid. I have had too many experiences about the blessings we get not to pay it.

The last one was really a big one. I had been renovating our "new" home for the last few years and ignoring our finances when I suddenly realized we had run up a large debt and were going to be almost $400 short at the end of the week with a bill that could not be put off. I had preached financial planning to others for several years and had allowed us to get in this situation through my own stupidity. At the time our living room was sitting in our master bedroom and everything was stacked there for the last two months.

Being very upset I prayed to the Lord for forgiveness for my stupidity and for help. I had the sudden urge to look in my nightstand where I sometimes put the remains of my monthly allowance (we are a family of 5 and we each get allowance each month.) Hoping I might find $40 or $50 if I was really lucky I moved enough stuff to reach my hand in and pulled out a fistful of bills. Reaching again and again I kept finding money. In the end there was sixty dollars more then I needed. I have no idea where it came from.

We don't worry about figuring tithing out to the last cent. But we pay enough to feel good that we are not short changing the Lord, most of the time we are a little over so if we unintentionally don't tithe on something he thought we should have we should be covered.

[MarginOfError]

I don't think you know what you would say if you were a bishop.

I'm some sort of parent, too, but I don't find anything my children do to be "perfectly OK" just because they might feel satisfied about it.

I know of a Latter-day Saint making a six-figure salary who said, "I got a $10,000 raise this year, so my increase was $10,000. Therefore, my tithing this year is $1000." I expect he felt pretty good about this. I don't believe for a moment that this fulfilled the law of tithing in God's eyes, though of course I'm happy to leave that judgment to God.

The point is, just because you "feel good or satisfied about" your tithing decision doesn't mean it's correct.

Under technical, temporal policies, this would be correct. If this man can meet with his bishop every year and declare himself a full-tithe payer, and if he can answer that he pays a full-tithe in his temple recommend interview, then the Church will consider him a full-tithe payer.

Now, on the non-temporal side of things, it's a much different story.

[Elphaba]

I was out of work for a year and paid tithing on unemployement every week. . .

This makes no sense to me.

When you receive unemployment, which is partially funded by MY tax dollars, and your EMPLOYER's tax dollars, and then you pay tithing on that, aren't you then paying tithing on OUR money?

If this is true, I find this completely inappropriate.

If it's not, what am I missing?

Elphaba

[Hemidakota]

Life Insurance is designed to be an economic replacement tool, not as an "increase".

You have lost your mother. To the extent that you were (may have) been financially dependent upon her is the same extent that this insurance money is to "make you whole" after your loss. According to this particular definition, I wouldn't consider this an "increase".

If you have NOT been financially or economically dependent upon your mother, then this IS an increase and should be tithed.

This is from a life insurance agent perspective.

I don't know if this will help, but at least it may give you an idea on how you may make the decision.

Correct...

[Churchmouse]

Sounds like we want to make sure we don't give the Lord to much of HIS money back.

[Madriglace]

This makes no sense to me.

When you receive unemployment, which is partially funded by MY tax dollars, and your EMPLOYER's tax dollars, and then you pay tithing on that, aren't you then paying tithing on OUR money?

If this is true, I find this completely inappropriate.

If it's not, what am I missing?

Elphaba

I have worked all my life from the time I was freshman in high school (55 now). I have paid in on what I got during the time ... through no fault of my own ... I was out of work. I also paid taxes on the money. For me it was increase so I paid the Lord. if I hadn't I would never have made it thorugh. Now I have a better job and am paying in more taxes to the system. For me inappropriate would be the ones that sit on their lazy butts and use every cent of the unemployement before they look for work not a pittance in gratitude ... 10% of $220 isn't much.