Difference between Telestial and Terrestrial

[Pilgrim2]

1 Corinthians 15:

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

Of course they exist. The problem you have is trying to understand them without modern revelation. :)

Your comment is true. If your name is not written in the book of life you will be cast into the lake of fire, which is NOT a kingdom of glory.

If your name is, then you will be given a kingdom of glory, it might be Celestial, Terrestrial, or Telestial. There are even different glories within those kingdoms. However, there are MANY mansions with many different kingdoms in Father's house.

John 14:

2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Look, this is an LDS forum. Most of those who post here use the Bible, but also use other scripture that clarifies many of these points you have been discussing. If you really want to understand our view, you should read some of those scriptures.

Here is a link for you:

Scriptures

Hint: Start with the Book of Mormon.

Edit: Oh, and if you do, start with the Title Page and go on from there so you'll know exactly what it is you're reading.

- - - - - - - -

I AM aware of what all of the 4 standard works teach. I simply see contradictions between them. For a start, look at D & C 101:65-66.... this was given AFTER the D&C 76 revelation....yet points to 2 options. See also D&C 29:27... and Mosiah 5:5. Then there's II Nephi 2:27 and 15:34-35, and Mosiah 2:39-41, and Alma 42:16 and Helaman 12:26... I have more.

You have suggested that the "name in book" includes all 3 levels of glory, but your view makes divisions between them. Rev. 21:24-27 does not. (Open gates). Rev. 21 describes a new heaven and earth (two places) with open access between them, but the LDS view is Cel/ter/tel (3) plus subdivisions of celestial glory. It just doesn't add up to me....when you consider that Matt. 7:14 indicates that most folks will not be getting a good destiny...and the alternate to "life" is destruction (not a lesser level of glory).

John 14:6 is speaking of the FATHER'S HOUSE.... I always thought that the Father's house is where the FATHER lives. (that would account for Celestial glory....but not necessarily the others).

(I am sure others have pointed out to you that the wording of I Cor. 15 refers to variations in bodies, not geographical destinations, and that one does not necessarily include the other.)

Pilgrim2

[Justice]

D&C 101:

65 Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life, and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father to reward every man according as his work shall be;

66 While the tares shall be bound in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable fire.

So, knowing that all scripture must agree, what is your explanation of this:

D&C 88:

15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.

16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.

17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.

18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;

19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;

20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.

21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.

22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.

They must agree.

[aj4u]

If you truly know the Godhead, you will find them three distinct human beings. There is no speculation here but your own assumption or using man made doctrine from the doctrine of the Universal Church of Rome. These men did not know the Godhead either. The approach to use is to ask like Abraham and other prophets, who sought the personal attendance of the Godhead for a true testimony.

I am sorry, but what you are saying isn't really making any sense to me. I never mentioned anything about the Church of Rome nor do I care to. What I know about God has been shown to me by God through His written word. I have no need of a man teach me when it comes to knowing Christ. Man can show me the Scriptures, but I can come to my own conculsions. I didn't even say I knew the Godhead or God's essence. I said, that in Christ dwells the fullest of the Godhead. You are using your misinterpretation of what I said as a red herring to what it means to know Christ as the Lord of your life. What I know of Christ is in the Scriptures. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh not an angel. He created angels and us and we all were designed to worship Him as the angels, but for now angels are above us. When we receive our glorified bodies, we will be judging angels. What I share is not speculation, assumptions or opinions. Therefore, I stand on the authority of the Bible. I am able to recongnize the Holy Bible as my sole authority. Can you back up what you are saying using the Holy Bible? If you can, you can have me as your convert. You have my word. I do not listen to any man's teaching about who God is. I ask God to show me what he wants me to know from Scripture, and He shows me great and wonderful things that I don't know. Edited May 13, 2009 by aj4u

[aj4u]

D&C 101:

65 Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life, and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father to reward every man according as his work shall be;

66 While the tares shall be bound in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable fire.

So, knowing that all scripture must agree, what is your explanation of this:

D&C 88:

15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.

16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.

17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.

18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;

19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;

20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.

21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.

22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.

They must agree.

What is D&C and what must agree? You lost me! I know that electric comes in the form of DC and AC.

[aj4u]

As someone has already told you, none of us are authorized to judge you. But I will point out that the Lord is no respecter of persons. Paul and Alama the younger faught against the church before they repented.

If Paul can be exalted, so can you. :)

What church are you referring to?

[aj4u]

1 Corinthians 15:

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. Paul didn't tell us this to create it into a doctrine. He is just stating facts. The facts being that there is a physical and Spiritual world. The things that happen in the physical world that we can see, smell and touch are a manifestation of what is happening in the spiritual world. There are similarities, but they each have there own glory about them. Other wise we wouldn't be able to relate to anything after death. We have an earthly glory now, but after the ressurrection we'll have glorified heavenly bodies. That is if you are God's. No need to make more of this than was intended.

Edited May 13, 2009 by aj4u

[X_Girl]

The whole three kingdom thing, I just don’t get. It’s only in the Celestial kingdom that you get your family, correct? If I understand you all correctly, to get to the Celestial kingdom you have to have been married in the temple, correct? To get to the temple, you have to obey the Mormon rules. I have been through the discussions, I have tried to go to church, but the whole LDS thing is not for me or my husband. We have a strong, loving marriage, I know that I can walk into a room filled with women, and know for a fact that I am the most well treated wife there. My husband is an amazing man and father. We both know Jesus as our Savior, we teach our children to love and obey His teachings, but we have no desire to do home teaching, teach primary, and go to priesthood or relief society. We will never be married in a temple. So as your description goes, we will not be together in Heaven. We could go to the temple, we chose not to. So what will we spend our eternity doing, making Bonbon for the people in the Celestial Heaven? Jesus will say to us “If it would have just been Mt. Dew and not coffee your husband drank, you could be together.” I just don’t get the three heavens.

[dnc76v22]

What church are you referring to?

The one that the scriptures said that Paul fought against.

Have you not read "The Acts of the Apostles" in the New Testament? :)

[Dravin]

I just don’t get the three heavens.

It's the difference between a pass/fail class and one that gives you a grade.

[Hemidakota]

I am sorry, but what you are saying isn't really making any sense to me. I never mentioned anything about the Church of Rome nor do I care to. What I know about God has been shown to me by God through His written word. I have no need of a man teach me when it comes to knowing Christ. Man can show me the Scriptures, but I can come to my own conculsions. I didn't even say I knew the Godhead or God's essence. I said, that in Christ dwells the fullest of the Godhead. You are using your misinterpretation of what I said as a red herring to what it means to know Christ as the Lord of your life. What I know of Christ is in the Scriptures. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh not an angel. He created angels and us and we all were designed to worship Him as the angels, but for now angels are above us. When we receive our glorified bodies, we will be judging angels. What I share is not speculation, assumptions or opinions. Therefore, I stand on the authority of the Bible. I am able to recongnize the Holy Bible as my sole authority. Can you back up what you are saying using the Holy Bible? If you can, you can have me as your convert. You have my word. I do not listen to any man's teaching about who God is. I ask God to show me what he wants me to know from Scripture, and He shows me great and wonderful things that I don't know.

I didn't expect it would since there is another level you need to climb. Remember, what is given as claimed truths is not always so. This is why we have a prophet to correct the man made dogma.

[Pilgrim2]

D&C 101:

65 Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life, and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father to reward every man according as his work shall be;

66 While the tares shall be bound in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable fire.

So, knowing that all scripture must agree, what is your explanation of this:

D&C 88:

15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.

16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.

17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.

18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;

19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;

20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.

21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.

22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.

They must agree.

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If you are asking ME the answer to this DISagreement... I would have to say that that is the question that I have posed. I posted above quite a few scriptures that suggest 2 destinations only... and you quote me one that says 3 (plus)... You tell me why this doubletalk...???? I am not LDS.

Mrs. D

[aj4u]

The whole three kingdom thing, I just don’t get. It’s only in the Celestial kingdom that you get your family, correct? If I understand you all correctly, to get to the Celestial kingdom you have to have been married in the temple, correct? To get to the temple, you have to obey the Mormon rules. I have been through the discussions, I have tried to go to church, but the whole LDS thing is not for me or my husband. We have a strong, loving marriage, I know that I can walk into a room filled with women, and know for a fact that I am the most well treated wife there. My husband is an amazing man and father. We both know Jesus as our Savior, we teach our children to love and obey His teachings, but we have no desire to do home teaching, teach primary, and go to priesthood or relief society. We will never be married in a temple. So as your description goes, we will not be together in Heaven. We could go to the temple, we chose not to. So what will we spend our eternity doing, making Bonbon for the people in the Celestial Heaven? Jesus will say to us “If it would have just been Mt. Dew and not coffee your husband drank, you could be together.” I just don’t get the three heavens.

As i mentioned, there are celestial, and terrestrial bodies : but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. Paul didn't tell us this to create it into a doctrine or to be bound by a bunch of silly rules. He is just stating facts. The facts being that there is a physical and Spiritual world. The things that happen in the physical world that we can see, smell and touch are a manifestation of what is happening in the spiritual world. There are similarities, but they each have there own glory about them. Other wise we wouldn't be able to relate to anything after death. We have an earthly glory now, but after the ressurrection we'll have glorified heavenly bodies. That is if you are God's. No need to make more of this than was intended. As far as drinking is concerned, Paul said Christians should keep what they believe about it to themselves. The Kingdom of Heaven is Not food or drink nor does it depend on those. If someone has the faith to drink something, praise the Lord for it. If not, they had better not. I will let no man tell me what I should have the faith for. Let me ask you a question. As a non-Mormon, but a LDS in the true sense of the word. I have a great relationship with my wife as well. We both know Jesus as our Savior, we taught our children to love and obey His teachings, but we are not concerned about the levels there might be in heaven because Jesus never told us to be concerned with it. So why is anybody tripping off with it? Edited May 14, 2009 by aj4u

[aj4u]

I didn't expect it would since there is another level you need to climb. Remember, what is given as claimed truths is not always so. .

OR down??? If it is a claimed truth in the Bible it is always so! Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and forever! Remember it is all about Him and no other!

This is why we have a prophet to correct the man made dogma.

You really elevate yourself in this post. That is what I told a Christian girlfriend when I believed that David Berg was the Latter day Prophet. Let me see. I know exactly what I told her. I remember my words like it was yesterday. "God has raised me to a higher level" She said. "Aj are you sure that is not your pride speaking? I condescendingly told her, "NO, you just don't understand" I was so convinced of it and pitied her. My word wasn't exactly the same as yours, but it means the same thing. It is another way of my telling her that she hasn't climbed up to the next one or two levels. Mark my words; you will remember this post and your words verbatim for the rest of your life like I do my words. I speak from experience and authority. One who has Christ formed in him, but not the only one- there are many more of us born-again Christians believers who know Christ Jesus like Paul did, since you don't jive with the term personally!.

:)

[Dravin]

If it is a claimed truth in the Bible it is always so!

I think what's he saying is that what people claim is Bible truth is not always so. One person can read the Bible and claim it teaches baptism is necessary, another can and claim it teaches it isn't, obviously both claims can't be true. Lots of verses can be interpreted in multiple ways (thus why so many different denominations with differing doctrines) just because somebody claims it is one particular way does not by nature of their claim make it so, ergo what is claimed as truth is not necessarily so.

[bytor2112]

The whole three kingdom thing, I just don’t get. It’s only in the Celestial kingdom that you get your family, correct?

Family members who accept the Atonement of Jesus Christ and follow His example can be together forever through sacred sealing ordinances performed in God’s holy temples.

After you are judged, you will live in a state of glory. Because everyone’s works and righteous desires vary, heaven includes different kingdoms, or degrees of glory.

Celestial kingdom—Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ reside in the celestial kingdom. If you live according to the gospel of Jesus Christ and are cleansed from sin by the Atonement, you will receive a place in this, the highest kingdom, where you will live in God’s presence and know complete joy.

Terrestrial kingdom—People who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom.

Telestial kingdom—Those who continue in their sins and do not repent until after they have died, will eventually receive a place in the telestial kingdom.

If I understand you all correctly, to get to the Celestial kingdom you have to have been married in the temple, correct?

Not necessarily. In order to receive exaltation you have to enter in to the New and Everlasting Covenant of marriage. This covenant is made in Temples. You can however,go to the celestial kingdom, but will still have to make and KEEP sacred covenants made in the Temple.

To get to the temple, you have to obey the Mormon rules.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the Kingdom of God on earth in preparation to the second coming of Jesus Christ. The rules .....are his rules, not Mormon rules. They are based on covenants.....sacred promises. The first of these sacred promises is made at baptism....where we promise....covenant....to take upon us the name of Jesus Christ and always remember him. Other sacred covenants are made in Holy Temples and ALL are able to receive these blessings, but there is a path that you must travel to get there. You must be worthy to enter into the House of the Lord and make these covenants. Baptism is where you begin the journey and all are invited to come unto Christ and receive these blessings.

I have been through the discussions, I have tried to go to church, but the whole LDS thing is not for me or my husband.

That's too bad. Judging by your post, you really don't understand what you have thus far been taught. There is no greater blessing than what the missionaries are sharing with you. Please spend some serious, humble time on your knees before you make thi decision.

We will never be married in a temple. So as your description goes, we will not be together in Heaven. We could go to the temple, we chose not to.

You can't go to the Temple unless you are a member and while the choice is yours, why wouldn't you want to be with your husband and children forever?

So what will we spend our eternity doing, making Bonbon for the people in the Celestial Heaven?

No, but you may be filled with a deep sense of regret when you realize what you chose not to accept.

You should continue the discussions with missionaries and ask them to explain these things to you. This is not the best venue to learn sacred truths or to make eternal decisions.

Edited May 14, 2009 by bytor2112

[Hemidakota]

OR down??? If it is a claimed truth in the Bible it is always so! Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and forever! Remember it is all about Him and no other!

You really elevate yourself in this post. That is what I told a Christian girlfriend when I believed that David Berg was the Latter day Prophet. Let me see. I know exactly what I told her. I remember my words like it was yesterday. "God has raised me to a higher level" She said. "Aj are you sure that is not your pride speaking? I condescendingly told her, "NO, you just don't understand" I was so convinced of it and pitied her. My word wasn't exactly the same as yours, but it means the same thing. It is another way of my telling her that she hasn't climbed up to the next one or two levels. Mark my words; you will remember this post and your words verbatim for the rest of your life like I do my words. I speak from experience and authority. One who has Christ formed in him, but not the only one- there are many more of us born-again Christians believers who know Christ Jesus like Paul did, since you don't jive with the term personally!.

:)

I won't begin to rip into the bible and the countless errors known since there are typos in the earlier edition of the book of Mormon. Let alone the missing books and not to forget other diver prophets that was intentionally left out by those who claimed the right for canonization.

How many times was the Book of Enoch mentioned in the bible? Now, where is the Book of Enoch and why is not included? Do you also know, the 3rd Book of John is older than the Apocalypses [Revelations] of John? That is a chance the tip of the iceberg....

[Justice]

Mark my words; you will remember this post and your words verbatim for the rest of your life like I do my words. I speak from experience and authority.

You're making the assumption that just because you chose to follow a false prophet that all prophets are false.

As I said in an earlier post (that I still don't think you understand):

You will know them by their fruits.

[Pilgrim2]

No, but you may be filled with a deep sense of regret when you realize what you chose not to accept.

You should continue the discussions with missionaries and ask them to explain these things to you. This is not the best venue to learn sacred truths or to make eternal decisions.

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I can recall asking missionaries questions about the 3 heavens as I have asked here... and they (being "youngers" rather than "elders") didn't have answers. I understand their training is somewhat limited. I thought someone HERE might be able to explain why your scriptures teach BOTH the 2 destinations-ONLY idea (Rev. 20:15 and 21:24-27) and Doctrine and Covenants 101:65-66.... and ALSO the D&C 76 3 degrees of glory. No answers? No wonder this person is not "getting" the 3 degrees of glory thing. Neither am I.... if there are no answers to this seeming contradiction.

Pilgrim 2

[Justice]

and they (being "youngers" rather than "elders")

LOL

I love it!

[Dravin]

I can recall asking missionaries questions about the 3 heavens as I have asked here... and they (being "youngers" rather than "elders") didn't have answers. I understand their training is somewhat limited. I thought someone HERE might be able to explain why your scriptures teach BOTH the 2 destinations-ONLY idea (Rev. 20:15 and 21:24-27) and Doctrine and Covenants 101:65-66.... and ALSO the D&C 76 3 degrees of glory.*No answers?*No wonder this person is not "getting" the 3 degrees of glory thing. Neither am I.... if there are no answers to this seeming contradiction.*

Rev 20:15:

Being written in the Book of Life is synonymous with going to the celestial kingdom and the lake of fire is not obtaining Celestial glory.

Rev 21: 24-27:

Is talking about when the earth obtains a celestial glory, so if you aren't written in the book of life you won't be there, you'll be elsewhere.

D&C 101:65-66:

Continues the theme of burning as not obtaining celestial glory.

As for why the Lord doesn't say, “If you don't obtain Celestial glory you'll go to this place called the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdom which while not as nice as the Celestial Kingdom you'll find comfortable and probably pretty nice compare to earth in those scriptures? I could see somebody who is doing their best to live a Celestial Life (John) when seeing the realities of a telestial life in vision thinking its a pretty miserable substitute for the Celestial and describing it as a lake of fire to encapsulate his feelings that its not really where you want to go but that this Celestial place is much preferable and where you want to go. Its also possible that the vision depicted it that way to impress the not ideal nature of not obtaining Celestial Glory.

I suppose none of us will really know if the pain and realization that you threw away your 3rd estate when you could be living with Christ and Heavenly Father could be described as a lake of burning or not, not in this life anyway.

Don't know if its the answer, but it is a answer.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Dravin

[aj4u]

You're making the assumption that just because you chose to follow a false prophet that all prophets are false.

As I said in an earlier post (that I still don't think you understand):

You will know them by their fruits.

Okay, I understand where you’re coming from with that statement now. We were talking apples and oranges, but the word I gave was not just from experience. What I meant by authority is that it is a prophetic statement for a certain individual who reminded me of myself, but it can pertain to others as well. When I say prophetic, I mean it as in thus says the Lord! Now you need to deliberate on this carefully. If I say to you thus says the Lord, and the Lord is not saying this, I am in a whole reap of trouble or a mad man or both. However, if it is the Lord, beware lest you be found to be fighting against God! By the way, you have been putting words in my mouth and making assumptions about me that are wrong. I do not think that all are false prophets. I go by the fruit as well! Edited May 15, 2009 by aj4u

[X_Girl]

It's the difference between a pass/fail class and one that gives you a grade.

So if I don't go to the temple, I fail?

[aj4u]

I won't begin to rip into the bible and the countless errors known since there are typos in the earlier edition of the book of Mormon. Let alone the missing books and not to forget other diver prophets that was intentionally left out by those who claimed the right for canonization.

How many times was the Book of Enoch mentioned in the bible? Now, where is the Book of Enoch and why is not included? Do you also know, the 3rd Book of John is older than the Apocalypses [Revelations] of John? That is a chance the tip of the iceberg....

I believe and have the faith that God is in control not man. What is in the Bible is what God intended to be in it. I accept this by faith. Now, why should I believe that that is not the case? Because it is what you say?

[Dravin]

So if I don't go to the temple, I fail?

You've kinda got it backwards. Heaven + Hell only is a pass/fail system and the graded system would be Kingdoms of Glory.

[Dravin]

I believe and have the faith that God is in control not man. What is in the Bible is what God intended to be in it. I accept this by faith. Now, why should I believe that that is not the case? Because it is what you say?

No because you pray about it with a sincere heart, real intent, having faith in Christ, and with faith that he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost and receive an answer.

Same circumstance under which he'll believe what you say.