Archaeological facts to support Book of Mormon

[Ammoclip]

Many archaeologist devote their lives to proving events in the bible actualyl happened.

Facts have emereged, proving the exodus, jesus' travels, and biblical cities.

Faith should be your ultimate decision making tool when believing in the scriptures.

However, I find archaeological proof of scriptural events very exciting!

Until recent times, we did not have an archaeological record of ancient times in the americas. Now we have the Maya civilizations records and dates available since we have cracked the graphical writing system.

In my amazement, I was astounded how the mayan and mormon timelines lined up.

Source Wikipedia

1 Jaredites 1.1 I. Pioneering Phase (3100-2920 B.C.) Years 1.2 II. Formation Phase (2920-2320 B.C.) 1.2.1 A. Early Formation 1.2.2 B. Late Formation 1.3 III. Disruption Phase (2320-1720 B.C.) 1.3.1 A. Early Disruption 1.3.2 B. Late Disruption 1.4 IV. Elaboration Phase (1720-1120 B.C.) 1.4.1 A. Early Elaboration 1.4.2 B. Late Elaboration 1.5 V. Decline Phase (1120-570 B.C.) 1.5.1 A. Early Decline 1.5.2 B. Late Decline 2 Jerusalem and environs 2.1 600 BC, Jerusalem 2.2 Between 600 and 592 BC, In the wilderness 2.3 592 BC, Bountiful 2.4 About 591 BC, Bountiful 2.5 About 590 BC, on the sea 3 The land of Nephi 3.1 About 589 BC, in the promised land 3.2 Between 588 and 570 BC, the land of their first inheritance 3.3 Between 588 and 570 BC, the land of Nephi 3.4 569 BC, the land of Nephi 3.5 559 BC, the land of Nephi 3.6 Between 559 and 545 BC, the land of Nephi 3.7 544 BC, the land of Nephi 3.8 Between 544 and 421 BC, the land of Nephi 3.9 420 BC, the land of Nephi 3.10 Between 420 and 400 BC, the land of Nephi 3.11 Between 399 and 361 BC, the land of Nephi 3.12 361 BC, the land of Nephi 3.13 323 BC, the land of Nephi 3.14 317 BC, the land of Nephi 3.15 279 BC, the land of Nephi 3.16 Between 279 and 130 BC, the land of Nephi 4 Zarahemla 4.1 Between 279 and 130 BC, Zarahemla 4.2 About 200 BC, Zarahemla 4.3 About 200 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.4 About 188 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.5 About 187 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.6 About 177 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.7 Probably about 160 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.8 About 150 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.9 About 148 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.10 About 147 BC, the place of Mormon 4.11 About 145 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.12 Between 145 and 122 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.13 Between 130 and 121 BC, Zarahemla 4.14 About 121 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.15 About 120 BC, land of Lehi-Nephi 4.16 About 120 BC, Zarahemla 4.17 Between 120 and 92 BC, Zarahemla 4.18 About 92 BC, Zarahemla 4.19 91 BC, Zarahemla 5 The reign of the judges 5.1 91 BC, Zarahemla 5.2 About 90 BC, Zarahemla 5.3 About 90 BC, among the Lamanites 5.4 Between 90 and 81 BC, among the Lamanites 5.5 87 BC, Zarahemla 5.6 Between 86 and 84 BC, Zarahemla 5.7 Between 83 and 81 BC, Zarahemla and environs 5.8 Between 81 and 77 BC, among the Lamanites 5.9 Between 76 and 69 BC, Zarahemla 5.10 Between 68 and 67 BC, Zarahemla 5.11 Between 66 and 63 BC, Zarahemla 5.12 Between 62 and 60 BC, Zarahemla 5.13 Between 60 and 53 BC, Zarahemla 5.14 Between 52 and 39 BC, Zarahemla 5.15 Between 38 and 30 BC, Zarahemla 5.16 Between 29 and 24 BC, the lands of Mulek and Lehi 5.17 Between 23 and 14 BC, Zarahemla 5.18 Between 13 and 7 BC, throughout the land 5.19 Between 6 and 5 BC, Zarahemla 5.20 Between 2 and 1 BC, Zarahemla 5.21 1 BC, Zarahemla 6 From the birth of Christ to His death 6.1 AD 1, Zarahemla 6.2 Between AD 3 and 15, throughout the land 6.3 Between AD 15 and 21, Zarahemla 6.4 Between AD 21 and 33, throughout the land 7 The coming of Christ 7.1 At the commencement of AD 34, throughout the land 7.2 At the ending of AD 34, near Bountiful 7.3 Between AD 34 and 35 7.4 Between AD 36 and 321 8 Mormon and Moroni 8.1 Between AD 321 and 328 (Mormon's Youth) 8.2 Between AD 328 and 350 8.3 Between AD 350 and 360 8.4 Between AD 360 and 385 8.5 Between AD 385 and 421

MAYAN TIMELINE

Source MexConnect

B.C.1000-1000 Olmec 1800-900 Early Preclassic Maya 900-300 Middle Preclassic Maya 300 B.C. - A.D. 250 Late Preclassic Maya A.D.250-600 Early Classic Maya 600-900 Late Classic Maya 900-1500 Post Classic Maya 1521-1821 Colonial period 1821- today Independent Mexico

Closer examinations of the historical changes in cultural and social events in the lives of the mayan people coincide with events in the Book of Mormon. Changes like the decline and increase of war, city abandonment, and power changes.

I challenge those of academic prowless in this area to investigate further. It is impossible for Joseph smith to know anything about the mayans, quite remarkable.

[Faded]

There once was an organization called F.A.R.M.S. (Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies) but they've since been incorporated into BYU and the Maxwell Institute. They have a TON of good stuff worth looking into: Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship - Home

The works of Hugh Nibley will offer a lot of good material as well.

It's important to realize that the Spanish Conquistadors were reckless in their attempt to erase the cultural identity and history of the Native American peoples that they subjected, that there is a TON we don't know very well yet. More and more information is surfacing all the time.

[Maya]

I dont know why, but I just LOVE Mayas!

[Ghost_Rider]

Another person that is doing this is the backyardprofessor on youtube. He did a series about the book of mormon and the metalurgy of the ancients. If you go to groups and the BoM Archeology there is a forum there that has the first in the series. He used books from NON Lds scholars that have said the same thing about this subject. it is all together about an hour or so. It is amazing to say the least.

Another thing of note is the descovery of actual Barley discoverd here in America. This is also being done by a fellow at Berkley.

here is the link for the BoM Archy stuff if anyone wants to join let me know!

Groups » LDS Mormon Network

[Faded]

Most of the information and research done by this group The Mayan Civilization Time Line : Mexico History and by the BYU Studies folks works from a lot of incomplete information. There's a lot of "best guesses" at work in the research.

Still, I felt that there were a few items that were interesting and worth pointing out.

3114-3113 BC The creation of the world takes place, according to the Maya Long Count calendar.

2000 BC The rise of the Olmec civilization, from which many aspects of Maya culture are derived. Village farming becomes established throughout Maya regions.

The Maya Calendar is based upon traditions that would have been somewhat corrupted, from our understanding of things. But the timeframe does coincide with the estimated arrival of the Jaredites in the Americas. 2000 BC would easily be within the time frame of the Jaredites.

700 BC Writing is developed in Mesoamérica.

This would be a bit over 100 years different from the arrival of the Nephites. We do know that they brought a form of writing with them, which was subsequently modified. It's possible this is talking about that same form of writing and that the dating is a bit off. It's also possible that they've discovered Jaredite writings. Either one fits with the Book of Mormon just fine.

400 AD The Maya highlands fall under the domination of Teotihuacán, and the disintegration of Maya culture and language begins in some parts of the highlands.

This would exactly coincide with the final destruction of the Nephites. But we should acknowledge this was not a complete destruction. We know very well that many Nephites survived via dissention. But it is interesting that the completion of a notable conquest happens at approximately 400 AD.

But it is also possible that these:

500 AD Tikal becomes the first great Maya city, as citizens from Teotihuacán make their way there, introducing new ideas involving weaponry, captives, ritual practices and human sacrifice.

600 AD An unknown event destroys the civilization at Teotihuacán, along with the empire it supported. Tikal becomes the largest city-state in Mesoamérica.

are misdated and represent the the actual destruction of the Nephites. For instance, the human sacrifice part would make perfect sense if Tikal was city of the Lamanites.

Currently, Central America is our best guess location for where the Book of Mormon happened. Mormon gives us very little to go on, since his purpose is much more focussed upon spiritual matters. But the Book of Mormon would fit quite nicely into the limited archaeological information we have for Central America.

[Moksha]

Ammoclip. sounds like you should be writing this up into an article for the FARMS Review at the Maxwell Institute. The editor is Dr. Daniel C. Peterson.

[Ammoclip]

thanks, alot of good responses! Really, Faded should write up an article. He is more educated than I in these subjects.

Well the arrivial to the americas coinciding with the "Classic" period of the mayas touched me the most. I feel that cultural influence bought to the mayas is vastly apparent here. Their records of purely wars and noble events evolved at this point to include spiritual insights and stories. The maya went into a period of cultural growth at this point. Their craftsmanship and artistic abilities increased exponentially.

If this is true information, we can identify the the civilazation that is the Nephites. It would be great to get nephites artifacts into a museum so all LDS could see some of our spiritual heritage. Could it be possible to identify the place where Jesus stood in the americas? That would be really great to visit the same earth where he stood.

Could lamenites and their descendancy have any significance today?

Edited May 13, 2009 by Ammoclip

[Snow]

Closer examinations of the historical changes in cultural and social events in the lives of the mayan people coincide with events in the Book of Mormon. Changes like the decline and increase of war, city abandonment, and power changes.

I challenge those of academic prowless in this area to investigate further. It is impossible for Joseph smith to know anything about the mayans, quite remarkable.

And.........?

Are you actually going to offer anything up of simply make a blanket claim without substantiation?

Which specific historical events correspond, specifically, to specific Book of Mormon accounts?

[Ammoclip]

And.........?

Are you actually going to offer anything up of simply make a blanket claim without substantiation?

Going with simple blanket claim without sustantiation. :)

Faded did a good job of pointing out some similarities. I would be interested in someone's research on this matter as I stated earlier.

BTW, the links were great. Unfortunately I found some of the publications alittle hard to read.

Disappointed in the metalurgy article, I realize metal working and horses have yet to be discovered in this time period/area. Although there is no current evidence of metalworking or horses in the americas at that time, it doesn't mean we won't discover science is wrong in the future.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Ammoclip

[Snow]

Going with simple blanket claim without sustantiation. :)

Faded did a good job of pointing out some similarities. I would be interested in someone's research on this matter as I stated earlier.

BTW, the links were great. Unfortunately I found some of the publications alittle hard to read.

Disappointed in the metalurgy article, I realize metal working and horses have yet to be discovered in this time period/area. Although there is no current evidence of metalworking or horses in the americas at that time, it doesn't mean we won't discover science is wrong in the future.

Huh?

Are you claiming that the Maya highlands fall under the domination of Teotihuacán represents the destruction of the Nephites?

What's your evidence?

[pam]

horses have yet to be discovered in this time period/area.

When do you believe horses came to the Americas? I have a reason for asking but want your thoughts ammoclip.

[bytebear]

I thought the Nephites were the Olmecs.

Olmec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe the Lamanites were the Maya.

[Palerider]

look at this link

Book of Mormon Problems: Plants and Animals

[Jim108]

I would like to see mainstream academia in archeology support the findings. To this date (as far as I know of) they do not.

I would however, welcome evidence pro or con to the book of mormon. As you know I am not LDS, but if (to me) the book of mormon is true, the world needs to know.

[Snow]

I would like to see mainstream academia in archeology support the findings. To this date (as far as I know of) they do not.

Support what findings? I haven't seen any findings - what are you referring to?

[Palerider]

Questions about Book of Mormon Evidence

Mormon Truth and Book of Mormon Evidences: Not Proof, But Indications of Plausibility

Response to the Smithsonian Institute Statement on the Book of Mormon

there is some reading material for you....enjoy

[pam]

If Joseph Smith had been writing the Book of Mormon instead of translating it from ancient records, he would have been very foolish to have included references to horses on the American continent in Book of Mormon times. (1 Nephi 18:25; Enos 21.) In 1830, nearly all the historians and scholars were convinced there had been no horses on the American continent before the coming of Columbus. After the Book of Mormon was published, however, archaeological discoveries were made that clearly indicate that horses were in the Americas before Columbus arrived. In the asphalt deposits of Rancho LaBrea in southern California, numerous fossil remains of horses have been found that antedate Book of Mormon times. Although these discoveries do not absolutely prove horses were in the Americas in the time period covered by the Book of Mormon (about 2600 B.C. to A.D. 421), they do prove horses were there before the coming of Columbus.

Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Book of Mormon, p. 117

[Jim108]

Support what findings? I haven't seen any findings - what are you referring to?

Findings?, for findings all you need is to go to your local book stores. There you can find whole books with maps and pictures of artifacts supporting the book of mormon. For the most part, when they are scrutinized, they do not pass the acid test. It is these kinds of researchers that do harm to the book of mormon. This is not good for you. When the science of archeology is evenly applied and is supported and agreed apon by the mainstream acadamia with regards to the book of mormon it will be welcomed by the world. I support real science in the proof. It has to be real. IF THE BOOK OF MORMON IS TRUE THAN THE WHOLE WOLD NEEDS TO KNOW IT.

I support you in finding out the truth.

[pam]

But I already know the truth. I don't need to search and find it.

[Snow]

Findings?, for findings all you need is to go to your local book stores. There you can find whole books with maps and pictures of artifacts supporting the book of mormon. For the most part, when they are scrutinized, they do not pass the acid test. It is these kinds of researchers that do harm to the book of mormon. This is not good for you. When the science of archeology is evenly applied and is supported and agreed apon by the mainstream acadamia with regards to the book of mormon it will be welcomed by the world. I support real science in the proof. It has to be real. IF THE BOOK OF MORMON IS TRUE THAN THE WHOLE WOLD NEEDS TO KNOW IT.

I support you in finding out the truth.

I'd repeat and ask what findings but apparently you don't know what "findings" you are talking about.

[Snow]

If Joseph Smith had been writing the Book of Mormon instead of translating it from ancient records, he would have been very foolish to have included references to horses on the American continent in Book of Mormon times. (1 Nephi 18:25; Enos 21.) In 1830, nearly all the historians and scholars were convinced there had been no horses on the American continent before the coming of Columbus. After the Book of Mormon was published, however, archaeological discoveries were made that clearly indicate that horses were in the Americas before Columbus arrived. In the asphalt deposits of Rancho LaBrea in southern California, numerous fossil remains of horses have been found that antedate Book of Mormon times. Although these discoveries do not absolutely prove horses were in the Americas in the time period covered by the Book of Mormon (about 2600 B.C. to A.D. 421), they do prove horses were there before the coming of Columbus.

Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Book of Mormon, p. 117

Why would it have been "foolish?"

Was your average, uneducated, farm boy in 1830 aware that modern horses came from Europe?

[pam]

As an average, uneducated, farm boy in 1830..probably not.

[Moksha]

When do you believe horses came to the Americas?

I think the horses that did come later on were of the flashy sort always demanding that evidence of their their existance be strewn around. These were not the kind of horses that lived a quiet existance and cleaned up after themselves like in bygone days.

[pam]

If Joseph's education was so limited, how do we not know that he thought horses were always on the American continent. It was in the 1830's that scholars and historians thought otherwise. I'm sure Joseph was not privy or had access to that kind of information. Yet it's been since proven otherwise that horses had been on the American continent prior to Columbus. It just hasn't been proven they were here during Book of Mormon times.

Yet that lack of proof makes no difference to me at all. Does not in anyway change my thoughts or my belief that what is written in the Book of Mormon is true.

[Faded]

And.........?

Are you actually going to offer anything up of simply make a blanket claim without substantiation?

Which specific historical events correspond, specifically, to specific Book of Mormon accounts?

Nice to see that you're being yourself Snow and that you've chosen this thread to do so. You know very well that the archaeological research for both the Bible and Book of Mormon will have significant religious bias in it. I would venture to say that there's a decent amount of "mainstream" archaeology that takes great delight in whenever they're not finding things to support a story from scripture. For instance, archaeology comes up empty when looking for David, more often than not. Some academics think that's loads of fun to prove that religious people are idiots. I don't know if there is such a thing as an untainted or unbiased scientific opinion when it comes to archaeological studies of ancient America.

The Book of Mormon offers us almost nothing with which to place events. It would be amazing if anything specific ever turns up. What we have are generalities. They are interesting, but all you have is a lot of guess work. So what?