Jesus Christ, saviour only to us?

[Maya]

Today in sundayschool someone asked if Jeus Christ is the saviour to the whole universe. One of our strong brothers said that He is... What would you say?

A lady said the usual truth.... that is not important enough to use ones time on it. And ofcourse it was agreed to...

Afterwards he said to me, that he has also heard said, that some spirits from other words wanted to change over to Earth as we have Jesus. Also he said something like that many of the other worlds are in paradise status, as no one wanted to partake. It sometimes bothers me that someones questions are not answered, or rather that there is no time to answer questions.

If you find any scriptures to back up your words or what the prophets have said it would be cool.

Just asking....

[Moksha]

Afterwards he said to me, that he has also heard said, that some spirits from other words wanted to change over to Earth as we have Jesus. Also he said something like that many of the other worlds are in paradise status, as no one wanted to partake.

Sounds like he is good enough at speculation to join us here on LDS.net. :)

[Jim108]

Today in sundayschool someone asked if Jeus Christ is the saviour to the whole universe. One of our strong brothers said that He is... What would you say?

A lady said the usual truth.... that is not important enough to use ones time on it. And ofcourse it was agreed to...

Afterwards he said to me, that he has also heard said, that some spirits from other words wanted to change over to Earth as we have Jesus. Also he said something like that many of the other worlds are in paradise status, as no one wanted to partake. It sometimes bothers me that someones questions are not answered, or rather that there is no time to answer questions.

If you find any scriptures to back up your words or what the prophets have said it would be cool.

Just asking....

"Afterwards he said to me, that he has also heard said, that some spirits from other words wanted to change over to Earth as we have Jesus."

....UUHHHH....Say What?

[mikbone]

McConkie in Mormon Doctrine under the title of atonement wrote:

"D&C 76:24

That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God

which means that the atonement of Christ, being literally and truly infinite, applies to an infinite number of earths".

Joseph Smith, Sermon delivered at the General Conference of the Church at Nauvoo, Ill. on October 5, 1840

"Enoch

Gen [5:22] And Enoch walked with God after he begat Mathusalah 300 years and begat Sons and Daughters and all the days of Enoch were 365 years and Enoch walked with God and he was not for God took him. Now this Enoch God reserved unto himself that he should not die at that time and appointed unto him a ministry unto terrestrial bodies of whom there has been but little revealed, He is reserved also unto the presidency of a dispensation. and more shall be said of him and terrestrial bodies in another treatise. He is a ministring Angel to minister to those who shall be heirs of Salvation and appered unto Jude as Abel did unto Paul. Therefore Jude spoke of him 14 & 15 verses in Jude. and Enoch the seventh [from Adam] revealed these sayings. Behold the Lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints

Translation of Body

Now the doctrine of translation is a power which belongs to this priesthood, there are many things which belong to the powers of the priesthood and the keys thereof that have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world. they are hid from the wise and prudent to be revealed in the last times many may have supposed that the doctrine of translation was a doctrine whereby men were taken immediately into the presence of God and into an Eternal fulness but this is a mistaken idea. There place of habitation is that of the terrestrial order and a place prepared for such characters, he had in he held in reserve to be ministring angels unto many planets, and who as yet have not entered into so great a fulness as those who are resurrected from the dead. See Heb 11 Chap part of the 35 verse "others were tortured not accepting deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection" Now it was evident, that there was a better resurrection or else God would not have revealed it unto Paul wherein then can it be said a better ressurrection? This distinction is made between the doctrine of the actual ressurrection and the doctrine of translation, the doctrine of translation obtains deliverance from the tortures and sufferings of the body but their existence will prolong as to their labors and toils of the ministry before they can enter into so great a rest and glory, but on the other hand those who were tortured not accepting deliverance received an immediate rest from their labors, See Rev [14:13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying blessed are the dead who die in the Lord for from henceforth they do rest from their labors and their works do follow them--They rest from their labors for a long time and yet their work is held in reserve for them, that they are permitted to do the same works after they receive a ressurection for their bodies, but we shall leave this subject and the subject of the terresteal bodies for another time in order to treat upon them more fully".

Thus we can conclude that of all the worlds that Christ created and populated, he is their Savior. And indeed Enoch and the members of his city are ministering angels to those other worlds.

Your original question was if Jehovah was the Savior of the entire Universe. The above two statements don't justify that conclusion. In my mind the real question is do you believe that Jehovah's Atonement was the only atonement that was ever performed. Joseph Smith commented during multiple general conference sermons that Elohim laid down his life and took it up just like Jesus did. To me this suggests that Elohim was also a savior. If Elohim was a savior also, then the answer would have to be no.

Edited May 24, 2009 by mikbone

[Maya]

Sounds like he is good enough at speculation to join us here on LDS.net. :)

Yes Moksha I told him...

But I really believe one should be able to ask these questions too without whispering and looking quilty. Some of this I never heard before, so I wanted to see if I find any answers here... thanks mike... will read that a bit later!

[Maya]

One could not be more clear than DC.. could one...:) Thanks again. It was interesting to read. I agree on the last sentance too... :)

[Justice]

"Afterwards he said to me, that he has also heard said, that some spirits from other words wanted to change over to Earth as we have Jesus."

....UUHHHH....Say What?

LOL

I'm not laughing AT you, Jim, but with you.

Have you ever watched the movie "Contact" with Jodie Foster?

In the movie, as a kid, Ellie asked her dad if there was life on other planets in the universe.

Her dad responded, "I don't know, Ellie, but if there isn't, it would be a terrible waste of space."

Along this lines, we believe that there are more earths populated with Heavenly Father's children. IF our belief in a pre-mortal existence is correct, and IF we had even a little say in where we were born, then it would stand to reason that some might want to be born on the same earth as Christ was.

Some of this is speculation, however. Don't let it bog you down.

We do believe we were alive as spirits before we were born on earth, much like we believe the spirit will continue to live and be conscience after death (without our physical bodies), until we are resurrected. But how much discussion there was about where or when we would be born, or if we even had a say, is speculation.

[tubaloth]

One could not be more clear than DC.. could one...:) Thanks again. It was interesting to read. I agree on the last sentance too... :)

We had the same lesson and really the only answer is D&C76:24. It was read in our lesson even though the question wasn't brought up.

The only way to make it easyer is to go to the Joseph Smith Version, or More Joseph Smith Poem version.

For the Lord he is God, and his life never ends,

And besides him there ne’er was a Saviour of men. …

He’s the Saviour, and only begotten of God—

By him, of him, and through him, the worlds were all made,

Even all that career in the heavens so broad,

Whose inhabitants, too, from the first to the last,

Are sav’d by the very same Saviour of ours;

And, of course, are begotten God’s daughters and sons,

By the very same truths, and the very same pow’rs.”

(Times and Seasons 4:82–85.)

LDS.org - Ensign Article - I Have a Question

[Moksha]

Well, from watching PBS (as shown on KBYU none the less!!!) we are told the the universe began 14.5 Billion years ago. The Earth itself is newer than many planets since we have been around 4.5 Billion years. During that ten billion year time lag, many other planets sprung into existence.

Should we base our atonement speculations off of a variation of the geo-centric model, with Earth as the center of everything? The Catholic Church once put astronomers and theoreticians to death for arguing against this model. They have long since let go of it when newer and more accurate understanding became widespread.

Wouldn't the natural order and progression of things point to the older worlds getting on with their business rather than regard our planet as the center of things? Even the Book of Abraham facimilies talk about Kolob as the starting point and mention the planets Enish-go-on-Dosh and Obliblish as being connected to the fifteen planet stargate system powered by Kaukobeams. Why would they stall their progression for us to catch up?

:)

[tubaloth]

Why would they stall their progression for us to catch up?

I don't think they would. One aspect we get from the book of mormon is scripture from a land that didn't have Christ.

Now they knew where Christ was going to be. But Prophets from the Old testament that pass away didn't stop there progression. Jacob and Abinadi taught the Plan of Salvation as if christ had already come, because the knew he would. There were told (probably by Christ himself).

The same thing happens on all the other worlds. That a savior will come to redeem us. Do you find it any easyer to believe in Jesus Christ, just because you are on the same earth as Him?

The Faith is still the same.

After Christ died I fully believe he not only visted the Nephites and others on this earth, but also believed other earths. I think thats what D&C 88:51-61 is teaching us.

Now you probably mean that people were waiting for the ressurection/ exaltation. Who knows how long they have to actually wait?

[Hemidakota]

Today in Sunday school someone asked if Jesus Christ is the savior to the whole universe. One of our strong brothers said that He is... What would you say?

This is not a correct statement or considered doctrinal correct. Anything outside of our FATHER’s domain or creation places this statement null and voided. The universe is filled with more than our own Godhead.

[Hemidakota]

"Afterwards he said to me, that he has also heard said, that some spirits from other words wanted to change over to Earth as we have Jesus."

....UUHHHH....Say What?

Same here....never heard of this.

[Hemidakota]

McConkie in Mormon Doctrine under the title of atonement wrote:

"D&C 76:24

That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God

which means that the atonement of Christ, being literally and truly infinite, applies to an infinite number of earths".

Joseph Smith, Sermon delivered at the General Conference of the Church at Nauvoo, Ill. on October 5, 1840

"Enoch

Gen [5:22] And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah 300 years and begat Sons and Daughters and all the days of Enoch were 365 years and Enoch walked with God and he was not for God took him. Now this Enoch God reserved unto himself that he should not die at that time and appointed unto him a ministry unto terrestrial bodies of whom there has been but little revealed, He is reserved also unto the presidency of a dispensation. and more shall be said of him and terrestrial bodies in another treatise. He is a ministering Angel to minister to those who shall be heirs of Salvation and appeared unto Jude as Abel did unto Paul. Therefore Jude spoke of him 14 & 15 verses in Jude. and Enoch the seventh [from Adam] revealed these sayings. Behold the Lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints

Translation of Body

Now the doctrine of translation is a power which belongs to this priesthood, there are many things which belong to the powers of the priesthood and the keys thereof that have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world. they are hid from the wise and prudent to be revealed in the last times many may have supposed that the doctrine of translation was a doctrine whereby men were taken immediately into the presence of God and into an Eternal fulness but this is a mistaken idea. There place of habitation is that of the terrestrial order and a place prepared for such characters, he had in he held in reserve to be ministering angels unto many planets, and who as yet have not entered into so great a fullness as those who are resurrected from the dead. See Heb 11 Chap part of the 35 verse "others were tortured not accepting deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection" Now it was evident, that there was a better resurrection or else God would not have revealed it unto Paul wherein then can it be said a better ressurrection? This distinction is made between the doctrine of the actual ressurrection and the doctrine of translation, the doctrine of translation obtains deliverance from the tortures and sufferings of the body but their existence will prolong as to their labors and toils of the ministry before they can enter into so great a rest and glory, but on the other hand those who were tortured not accepting deliverance received an immediate rest from their labors, See Rev [14:13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying blessed are the dead who die in the Lord for from henceforth they do rest from their labors and their works do follow them--They rest from their labors for a long time and yet their work is held in reserve for them, that they are permitted to do the same works after they receive a ressurection for their bodies, but we shall leave this subject and the subject of the terresteal bodies for another time in order to treat upon them more fully".

Thus we can conclude that of all the worlds that Christ created and populated, he is their Savior. And indeed Enoch and the members of his city are ministering angels to those other worlds.

Your original question was if Jehovah was the Savior of the entire Universe. The above two statements don't justify that conclusion. In my mind the real question is do you believe that Jehovah's Atonement was the only atonement that was ever performed. Joseph Smith commented during multiple general conference sermons that Elohim laid down his life and took it up just like Jesus did. To me this suggests that Elohim was also a savior. If Elohim was a savior also, then the answer would have to be no.

In addition with discussing an Infinite Atonement, means only to the order of those who were created during the event described by Abraham and not before or after this time frame. This does not apply for spirits that are created after this earth has finished this world or nor does it apply to them prior to this spiritual birth of creation, since it is only relevant to our order of creation as spirits.

Infinite is for those who are created and born into mortality for eternity, no matter of the glory state of telestial to celestial.

There are other Saviors for other FATHERs. As the Savior will eventually step up and take on the role of a FATHER. Now, how would this apply to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, when they now sit upon their own thrones as our FATHER's seated right now? Who will be there Savior when the spiritual birth is complete and an earth is created for them?

[Misshalfway]

Does the bishop know that this kinda thing is being taught? If I were the bishop, I might want to put a kabosh on that.

[mikbone]

Does the bishop know that this kinda thing is being taught? If I were the bishop, I might want to put a kabosh on that.

Can you be more specific than "this kinda thing".

Joseph Smith was privy to much infromation and revelation. Although the important material is faith, repentance, baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he knew and spoke on much deeper doctrine.

[Moksha]

"Afterwards he said to me, that he has also heard said, that some spirits from other words wanted to change over to Earth as we have Jesus."

All transfers need to be stamped in triplicate, a copy must be on file at the main office, tithes paid in full and the Certificate of Full Immunizations must be presented upon arrival.

[Dravin]

All transfers need to be stamped in triplicate, a copy must be on file at the main office, tithes paid in full and the Certificate of Full Immunizations must be presented upon arrival.

I have the image of an angle in an SS Uniform demanding, "Paperz Pleaze." in my head now.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Dravin

[lilered]

I have the image of an angle in an SS Uniform demanding, "Paperz Pleaze." in my head now.

Velly Interesting ( St. Peter thinks to himself).

[Maya]

To whom ever it may consern.... youn know yourself... There is no laugh button here...

I just tought it was a bit interesting question. It was not really tought but he just asked I think they concluded to D&C.

I kind of always tought that every "planet" have their own saviour. But then also that ... maybe earth is the ONLY planet where things are done through atonement?

[the Ogre]

To whom ever it may consern.... youn know yourself... There is no laugh button here...

I just tought it was a bit interesting question. It was not really tought but he just asked I think they concluded to D&C.

I kind of always tought that every "planet" have their own saviour. But then also that ... maybe earth is the ONLY planet where things are done through atonement?

Actually, I think the earth is the only planet wicked enough to kill its own G-d (of course this is pure speculation). Edited May 26, 2009 by the Ogre

[Hemidakota]

Now, unless someone can expand the doctrine upon other worlds or have seen or been shown other worlds having no Savior please do so at this time...I am all ears.

[Hemidakota]

I have the image of an angle in an SS Uniform demanding, "Paperz Pleaze." in my head now.

[Hemidakota]

Sounds like he is good enough at speculation to join us here on LDS.net. :)

[Hemidakota]

Can you be more specific than "this kinda thing".

Joseph Smith was privy to much infromation and revelation. Although the important material is faith, repentance, baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he knew and spoke on much deeper doctrine.

Even the D&C is missing over 24 revelations that was not recorded...why? Do not know.

[tubaloth]

Now, unless someone can expand the doctrine upon other worlds or have seen or been shown other worlds having no Savior please do so at this time...I am all ears.

Its more the other way around.

We do know from the scriptures that Jesus Christ is the creator of Everything in Heavenly Fathers dominion.

Heavenly Father saves all the works of his hand.

He saves them through Jesus Christ.

Why would Jesus Christ create everything, but not save it?

See the pervious posts for how Joseph Smith interpreted D&C 76:24.