Isn't location an important part of prepardeness?

[ultprep]

I have a question that I've been pondering for some time. Many talk a lot about preparedness but somehow seem to fail to take into account "location, location, location". Seems to me like trying to ride out a big disaster (whether natural or man-made) in an urban area is not a very good idea. Recently watched this new film that is pretty convincing about how much better off one would be in a rural area (city dangers film website). Is it just me??? Wouldn't it make a lot of sense to be where you can grow your own food and not have the entire garden ravaged in one night? And then the water is a big deal...how are you going to have a decent water source in the city during a serious situation? Or how would one be able to heat their home in the winter without land that has trees on it? (this is an extremely serious issue particularly in the northern parts). And then all the civil unrest that is likely to break out (like the congressman on the video said)...

It just seems like a "no-brainer" to me if at all possible. And I think most anyone that wants to do it badly enough can if they are willing to put a lot of work in on it. Generally the less money you have, the more "elbow grease" you have to put in on it. Although not ideal, you can even do the long-term lease type thing if you have no money to buy with. And to be perfectly honest, although debt is a really bad idea and I have always steered clear of it, I would rather be in debt in the country than in debt in the city. Make any sense?

[BenRaines]

All those points made make sense.

Ben Raines

[prospectmom]

This is totally one of the reasons we moved to a rural area

[pam]

Makes total sense to me as well. Unfortunately I will be one of those city dwellers when something happens. So all I can do is to be as prepared as possible in the case of a disaster.

[NeuroTypical]

There are advantages to having a bunch of EMTs and specialized heavy equipment within 10 miles of where you live.

But yeah, given the chance to live away from a huge wave of people needing services, or living right in the middle of them, I'll take my extra-long commute to work, thank you.

My wife's blog opines about such things.

LM

[farmer]

If such a thing were to play out, the rural areas will be inundated with the city dwellers. No place will be safe. Prepare accordingly.

If you cannot afford the land that is ok PLENTY of gov. land and generous farmers ....in the west anyway. Build relationships with the rural people around you but don't forget you have a duty to those in the congregation you reside in.IMHO If you do "bug out " to the country side make sure you make those around you understand you are prepared to work hard. I will be MUCH more generous to those who ask nicely and who come to help with the chores.

[Tough Grits]

If such a thing were to play out, the rural areas will be inundated with the city dwellers. No place will be safe. Prepare accordingly.

I am not an alarmist, but I agree with farmer.

I live in the VERY rural, backwoods of southern GA, and my rural neighbors have guns--lots of them---and know how to use them. That can be good or bad.

Either situation---backwoods or city---can have its advantages/disadvantages. But out here in the backwoods, gunshots are pretty much ignored, and with so many miles and trees between neighbors, bad stuff could have with no witnesses. Something to think about.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Tough Grits
silly typo

[hankpac]

Most smaller communities that are close enough to a large metro area, will in fact be inundated, under the right circumstances. Others that are farther way from such centers, will either wise up fast, and post pickets, and guard stations, and run patrols, shutting down roads, and ways in, or they will also be overwhelmed.

People who make it to certain areas, will not automatically pass. Feeling sorry for someone doesn't mean they get in. One will have to have a marketable skill, and or a supply of something valuable to get in.

This is just a fact of life.

And no, they won't take your kids. They will have enough mouths to feed, and a feudal system that may include slavery of the local low-lifes, and welfare recipients who lived there Pre-collapse. Those types will have priority over refugees.

Time for the newbies to re-read "Lucifer's Hammer", and perhaps Piers Anthony's "Battle Circle". Also "Earth Abides" and "false Dawn".

If you haven't considered alternative scenarios, read a bit of speculative fiction, which has been researched. It will surprise you, since many of the scenarios are actual events that have occurred in other settings.

This is why so many people say Americans are sissies. In some places these things are every day events. Americans have not only never seen some of these things, they can't even conceive of them, nor will they be able to deal when they occur. Like the character in "Lucifer's Hammer" who is told to quickly get some survival things together, and piles up things like make up, heels, stockings, and dresses.

[Gargantuan]

You make a lot of sense to me. I think it is important to one's survival if he'll prepare where he lives and make the best of his current situation. I have always thought preparation [prevention] is worth an once of safety [cure] . Gar

Edited June 3, 2009 by Gargantuan
clarification

[Guest]

I agree, location is an important consideration. But, I don't agree that the rural areas is necessarily "better" than the city. I believe it is all about preference.

For example, I prefer to live in the City where I am only 10 minutes commute to my work. This saves me gas money. Money that I can use to spend on my emergency preparedness plan specifically tailored to city dwelling.

I also prefer to live in the city where a 911 call results in a response time of under 3 minutes (the fire station is half a mile away). The hospital is only 5 minutes away, the medical helicopter to the hospital with the pediatric surgeon is 10 miles away. The school is 2 miles away. There are 3 freeways (one going east-west, another going north-south, another going around the metro area) within a few miles - all necessary for emergency evacuation. The river is within 5 miles away as well - a good water source.

So yeah, I really think it is all preference. Which stuff is more important for the everyday to you versus the major catastrophic events. Then make your emergency preparations suit the location.

[Gargantuan]

Anatess,

Your logic is basically sound, but it also makes good sense to have a sound and organized survival plan for wherever you may live or take shelter in case of an emergency. Water, food, medicines, clothing, and communication supplies are important elements of preparation. Having a plan of survival is good if it is coordinated in your area with other plans for survival. That is why I outlined in the Block Captain Booklet specific procedures which outlines to the Block Captains (either rural or city) a detailed procedure to follow in helping the individual families and consequently the entire block area of homes for survival. The underlying concept behind the Block Captain concept is that individual families will have a higher percentage of survival in a disaster if they are working together as the whole group rather than alone. Gar

[farmer]

Anatess,

Your assuming all of these services are even still available. In the very short term the city environment can have some benefits in that if you are a creative thinker there are a multitude of places to scrounge stuff you don't have. For instance med supplies can be found in all manner of health offices, state and fed offices, vet clinics, emergency vehicles etc. However you will be competing with a million other people hence short term survivability. Remember that when things go far enough south the "rules" change or rather they become nonexistent. This concept is difficult for some to grasp but the sooner you do the better off you will be. Being naive will be the demise of many.

[Guest]

Anatess,

Your logic is basically sound, but it also makes good sense to have a sound and organized survival plan for wherever you may live or take shelter in case of an emergency. Water, food, medicines, clothing, and communication supplies are important elements of preparation. Having a plan of survival is good if it is coordinated in your area with other plans for survival. That is why I outlined in the Block Captain Booklet specific procedures which outlines to the Block Captains (either rural or city) a detailed procedure to follow in helping the individual families and consequently the entire block area of homes for survival. The underlying concept behind the Block Captain concept is that individual families will have a higher percentage of survival in a disaster if they are working together as the whole group rather than alone. Gar

Yes, I live in Florida - hurricane/flood/tornado country. Every stake in this state has "the plan". Every ward has block captain assignations - contains responsibilities not only for ward members but everybody else living in that block. On April 25, we went out with the Red Cross to distribute emergency preparation pamphlets, 72-hour-kit instructions, evacuation routes and shelter locations (even includes pets), and all other kinds of information stuff to EVERY HOUSEHOLD we could reach. The Red Cross was so impressed with our work (2 stakes banded together in our city) that we got our young men mentioned by name in a news story on the local paper complete with the Mayor's kudos.

Every year towards the beginning of hurricane season, we have one Sunday that we reserve for what I call the "emergency preparedness" talk (happens during RS/EQ hour). This is where we catch up on updates to "the plan", re-listing of available resources (like, who has a chainsaw, etc.) and make sure new residents to Florida get their information. We've had these lessons every year for the past 12 years that I've been attending church services (I've attended years of services before I even became a member) that I can probably quote the thick pamphlet in my sleep. :-)

We've executed the plan several times in the last 12 years, so I know for a fact it works.

Last Tuesday, we had our RS enrichment meeting and we played "Survivor" where we had to pretend we were in different survival situations and we had to figure out what to do. It was awesome. Oh yeah, hurricane season just started...

Anatess,

Your assuming all of these services are even still available. In the very short term the city environment can have some benefits in that if you are a creative thinker there are a multitude of places to scrounge stuff you don't have. For instance med supplies can be found in all manner of health offices, state and fed offices, vet clinics, emergency vehicles etc. However you will be competing with a million other people hence short term survivability. Remember that when things go far enough south the "rules" change or rather they become nonexistent. This concept is difficult for some to grasp but the sooner you do the better off you will be. Being naive will be the demise of many.

Yes, I agree with you, hence the "emergency preparation plans suited for my location" that I mentioned. I prefer to choose my location for the Everyday survival more than the "what if the naval base nearby gets blasted by a nuclear bomb" survival. I have to deal with everyday. The when-all-else-fails is important to prepare for but I don't let it rule my everyday. That's the reason for the year's worth of storage. It's not just for food storage. It is for living off your stuff for an entire year without needing anything else outside. That includes medicine and supplies.

I feel that I can deal with everyday better in the city than in the rural areas. I came from the Philippines, so I've lived in rural areas where we raise our own cows and chickens and have a giant rice field. I have distinct impressions of the differences in lifestyle between rural and city and I feel the city is more my style.

I was just talking to a friend of mine in RS and she happens to mention that she's never had to eat a chicken outside of the packaged chicken in the meat section of the local grocery. In a way I feel blessed for my experiences living in the rural area. Because, I can take a live chicken, kill it (it's not as simple as chopping its head off), feather it (not as simple as plucking it), and prepare it for eating in the same manner that you will find in the grocery store. So yeah, this is not something that you would normally learn to do living in the city.

Another thing that most of the Floridians have are backpacks that we can live off of for 2 weeks that is hanging by the closet closest to the door. It gets overhauled once a year on the Sunday that we have our emergency preparedness talk. Living in Florida, we have to have this in case we have to evacuate for hurricanes. It gives us 2 weeks to survive before we have to find civilization. We can walk to Alabama in 2 weeks.

I'm going to say something here that might rub people the wrong way. Please know that this is just my opinion and is what I apply to my life and not necessarily applicable to everybody else's... Okay, my husband and I agree that part of emergency preparedness is taking care of our health. We are big on exercise for strength and stamina - including the kids. We watch our weights because it is an indication of some imbalance in our health. Not only that, we also watch our body fat percentages and muscle mass. We have been lucky that we have not had to encounter chronic illnesses. My grandfather died of a stroke caused by high blood pressure. My father has the same health issue. So, I diligently watch my food intake to keep my blood pressure low. My husband's dad has diabetes. So my husband watches his food intake to lower his risk for diabetes as well. When emergency strikes, we feel we will be better able to survive it if we are in optimum health.

Wow, I can write quite a long post! And it is only worth a measley 2 cents...

[Gargantuan]

Hello farmer,

Your advice is well "worth a measly 2 cents . . . " and is very valuable to any who may read it. I hope, no I pray as I'm sure you and your husband have done that many are ready when disaster strikes. Years ago, when the Teton Dam broke in Idaho I helped with the clean up. That was a terrible mess. Many were ready and some were not for the destruction that fell quickly upon so many.

Please encourage all to pray for those who need to be ready for what seems to coming quickly upon the world. Gar "Charity is accepting someone's differences, weaknesses, and shortcomings; having patience with someone who has let us down; or resisting the impulse to become offended when someone doesn't handle something the way we might have hoped." Marvin J Ashton

[NeuroTypical]

I find there's a trade-off. We live out in the middle of nowhere, 20 miles out of town and up a mountain. Pandemic outbreak, chemical spill on a major highway, terrorist attack, zombie uprising - we're in a far superior position for any of them. However, we now live up a dang mountain, so every winter, we get snowed-in for upwards of a week at a time, usually 2 or 3 times each winter. So we bought a superior position for the massive things, but it came with a basic guarantee of experiencing a relatively 'minor' event at least twice a year.

I was once stuck in town during a storm and couldn't make it home. Stayed in a motel 8, had to go back to work in my same clothes the next day. I remember thinking "why can't the friggin zombies just have their uprising already, so this is all worth it!"

LM

[farmer]

Anatess, +1000 on health and EXERCISE.

[Gargantuan]

I find there's a trade-off. We live out in the middle of nowhere, 20 miles out of town and up a mountain. Pandemic outbreak, chemical spill on a major highway, terrorist attack, zombie uprising - we're in a far superior position for any of them. However, we now live up a dang mountain, so every winter, we get snowed-in for upwards of a week at a time, usually 2 or 3 times each winter. So we bought a superior position for the massive things, but it came with a basic guarantee of experiencing a relatively 'minor' event at least twice a year.

I was once stuck in town during a storm and couldn't make it home. Stayed in a motel 8, had to go back to work in my same clothes the next day. I remember thinking "why can't the friggin zombies just have their uprising already, so this is all worth it!"

LM

The Lord is kind to us when he lets us get into positions where there is nothing left to do, but to turn to Him. —Elder Boyd K Packer If Ye Are Prepared Ye Shall Not Fear, October 12, 2008 Gar

[EandLDOW]

I think that if/when a major societal collapse occurs in our country that we will not revert to the prehistoric caveman mode. Rather, we will go back to perhaps the late 19th century or even the 18th century. There will be major upheaval initially, and lawless gangs, Gadianton robbers if you wish, will run rampant for a time. But fairly quickly groups of people will band together for self-defense, and establish a relatively safe community. Their safety will attract others, growing the community in size and prosperity and in defensive capability. These communities will then join together, forming, lets call them counties, and later join into states. Pretty soon, we'll be back where we are today, but hopefully wiser.

Location has a lot to do with preparation. Location and your contingency plans determine how and what you prepare. It is possible to prep and do well in disasters in the urban environment. Look at the differences between Florida and New Orleans. The year NO got hit by Katrina, Florida got hit by five hurricanes. Florida gets hit by many more hurricanes than New Orleans, but they do OK and recover quickly because they plan and prepare. New Orleans didn't do either, and still has not recovered.

Preparation is necessary to minimize disruption of our lives in a disaster.

By the way, if you're one who plans on "bugging out" of an urban area when things really go south, you should know that if you're in the city when things fall apart, you haven't been paying attention. You should have left weeks before, and could have if you had been aware of what goes on around you.

Just some of my thoughts.

[Gargantuan]

That's good heads up thinking. Let's hope that our society doesn't decay that much. However, if it does happen we should pay strict heed to ther counsel of our inspired and chosen by God leaders. Eh?

[hankpac]

Anatess, and others. It all depends on the scenario. A simple power outage, or collapse of all the banks. shut down of interstate trucking and stoppage of supply of fuel and food into the city, or widespread rioting. Earthquake in the middle of winter, with resultant fires, loss of power and water or simply martial law and curfew, with food rationing and fuel rationing, and restricted travel.

Location can make or break you in any of these scenarios. In every single recent emergency worthy of the description, 911, emergency services, were shut down, or non-responsive. If you couldn't take care of yourself, no one was out there to take care of you. In NOLA it has been documented that Police from out of town (CHP, to be specific) looted people's homes of their firearms under the guise of "safekeeping" These people never got their weapons back.

Personally, I LIKE the idea of people staying in the city. Less trouble from them that way. People in the country often already have a handle of preparedness, already work together in crises, and already have a handle on food storage and production, and already have a good grasp of how to deal with life's vagaries without help from the "Nanny state".

Stay in the city, PLEASE. We don't need you out here, we don't want to feed you out here, and we can do just fine with out the entire population of every city in America. Really.

And if you find that offensive, well, too bad. In the weighing of the difference between NEED, and otherwise, we don't NEED Chicago, SF, SLC, LAX Portland, Seattle, NOLA, Atlanta, NYC. If the Muslims wiped every single large American city off the face of the map, these superfluous citizens (mostly liberals anyway) wouldn't make a single bit of difference except that they would no longer be a carbon producing burden on the planet and humanity.

I live in a retreat community, and have a valuable position there. I serve the people I live among, and support a community that has a useful place in the environment. It took a long time to find this place, and it took a lot of hard work over a long period to have a skill set and life values that would fit here.

[Hemidakota]

I have a question that I've been pondering for some time. Many talk a lot about preparedness but somehow seem to fail to take into account "location, location, location". Seems to me like trying to ride out a big disaster (whether natural or man-made) in an urban area is not a very good idea. Recently watched this new film that is pretty convincing about how much better off one would be in a rural area (city dangers film website). Is it just me??? Wouldn't it make a lot of sense to be where you can grow your own food and not have the entire garden ravaged in one night? And then the water is a big deal...how are you going to have a decent water source in the city during a serious situation? Or how would one be able to heat their home in the winter without land that has trees on it? (this is an extremely serious issue particularly in the northern parts). And then all the civil unrest that is likely to break out (like the congressman on the video said)...

It just seems like a "no-brainer" to me if at all possible. And I think most anyone that wants to do it badly enough can if they are willing to put a lot of work in on it. Generally the less money you have, the more "elbow grease" you have to put in on it. Although not ideal, you can even do the long-term lease type thing if you have no money to buy with. And to be perfectly honest, although debt is a really bad idea and I have always steered clear of it, I would rather be in debt in the country than in debt in the city. Make any sense?

Yes! But you need to draw close on to that very Spirit to tell you when to leave and where too go.

[Guest]

Anatess, and others. It all depends on the scenario. A simple power outage, or collapse of all the banks. shut down of interstate trucking and stoppage of supply of fuel and food into the city, or widespread rioting. Earthquake in the middle of winter, with resultant fires, loss of power and water or simply martial law and curfew, with food rationing and fuel rationing, and restricted travel.

Location can make or break you in any of these scenarios. In every single recent emergency worthy of the description, 911, emergency services, were shut down, or non-responsive. If you couldn't take care of yourself, no one was out there to take care of you. In NOLA it has been documented that Police from out of town (CHP, to be specific) looted people's homes of their firearms under the guise of "safekeeping" These people never got their weapons back.

Personally, I LIKE the idea of people staying in the city. Less trouble from them that way. People in the country often already have a handle of preparedness, already work together in crises, and already have a handle on food storage and production, and already have a good grasp of how to deal with life's vagaries without help from the "Nanny state".

Stay in the city, PLEASE. We don't need you out here, we don't want to feed you out here, and we can do just fine with out the entire population of every city in America. Really.

And if you find that offensive, well, too bad. In the weighing of the difference between NEED, and otherwise, we don't NEED Chicago, SF, SLC, LAX Portland, Seattle, NOLA, Atlanta, NYC. If the Muslims wiped every single large American city off the face of the map, these superfluous citizens (mostly liberals anyway) wouldn't make a single bit of difference except that they would no longer be a carbon producing burden on the planet and humanity.

I live in a retreat community, and have a valuable position there. I serve the people I live among, and support a community that has a useful place in the environment. It took a long time to find this place, and it took a lot of hard work over a long period to have a skill set and life values that would fit here.

I would like to respectfully point out that this post is prejudiced. I find it sad that somebody can have such a disdain over other people's choices to the extent beyond apathy. Personally, I'm not offended. It is your viewpoint after all and I respect that. But, this is the same attitude that lead people to call every German a Nazi, every Muslim a terrorist, and every Mormon polygamists...

[hankpac]

It IS prejudiced. That doesn't make my post wrong. And I am NOT apathetic, I am vehemently opinionated on this subject. Enough so that I made MY move to the country, made my move to marry a well rounded, capable woman, who has all the right skills and education, and made my move to cover all my bases in preparedness. No I am far from the point of apathy.

Thank you for respecting that I have a right to my opinion, as do you.

Try calling the nanny state when your power goes out, or the trucks stop rolling due to a fuel shortage or the stores have no more bread.

Every German was NOT a Nazi, and every city dweller is not a worthless liberal. But every city dweller will be a refugee one day, and there is no place for them in the rural areas. Those masses will be a statistic.

I base my comments on not only observation, but also training in the national guard, and civil defense (which should be called civil mass burial). I have listened to the briefings on what the people in the city are supposed to do, and it isn't pretty.

Good luck, you will need it.

[bcguy]

Last year the city of vancouver at 1.5 million people ordered a boiled water alert. The next day the last remaining bottled water at Costco was being sold and fights were braking out! Good grief over water? There is water all around us! just boil the stuff out of the tap!

But I do agree, best to have a plot of land with a large garden on it in a rural area.

[Gargantuan]

That's too bad that a panick like water shortage would cause civilzed individuals to fight for it. I can see where some would fight for it. It's a shame that these same people have not prepared for a time against the storms and disasters life can present. Gargantuan