Helping the needy

[Maya]

1. In USA there is the the bishops varehouse at least in Salt Lake is that anywhere eles in the world?

2. What kind of help can one get there where there is no varehouse?

3. When are things bad enough to get help fron Church?

I am askin this, as once in my life I had not money to buy anything but cabbage to eat for me. My kids got food real good meal in the school every day, so just a bit youghurt or bread was enough for them in teh evening. On weekends I think I made pancakes very often (mixed spinich or carrots int eh dough to make it a bit more nurising) then on Sundays we ate at my mothers. We did live in my own house and I was in a time of life where I was not sure what to do as my ex had moved out and I as not sure what was happening. I enherited clothes from the families in the church.

Also I know few LDS, who have to stand in the line for Salvation Army to get some food for the family that week. They ask why they come and it is enough to say that they are without work. They are not questioned more about it.

For a Finnish or a Norwegean it is extremely terrible and humiliating to go ask help from anywhere and if they meet a bishop whos bodylanguage seems to hint to them, that it is their own foult they dont have money to buy food and no job, they sure wont go there again to even ask. I have a feeling that over here there are many, that become bitter and even leave the church, as they do not give any help to them, when needed.

I think once I did ask if church could help... I had only a very small student money from the state my ex had just moved out and refused to pay the bills... luckilyn I had my mother (not LDS). She payed our bills til I was ready with my education and got a job. Community denied help, as my ex had not informed, that he had moved out, he did not pay for the 2 kids support either and neither did the community as he had not informed that he had moved, and they did not take my word for it.

A frend of mine has to have his 2 kids living home, as all the new appartments are given to the refugies. They all are unemployed one student. One of them just sent 40 applications, but no work. He has been unemployed for some 20 years after he lost his business. They do get some unemployment money, but a lot of it goes to pop and cakes and candy... so what the mother is to do when there is no money for food?

Sometimes I just wonder where the line goes? When is a person/a family in such a state that the church wil help them?

Edited June 12, 2009 by Maya

[Traveler]

1. In USA there is the the bishops varehouse at least in Salt Lake is that anywhere eles in the world?

2. What kind of help can one get there where there is no varehouse?

3. When are things bad enough to get help fron Church?

I am askin gthis as once in my life I had not money to buy anything but cabbage to eat for me. My kids got food real good meal in the school every day, so just a bit youghurt or bread was enough for them in teh evening. On weekends I think I made pancakes very often (mixed spinich or carrots int eh dough to make it a bit more nurising) then on Sundays we ate at my mothers. We did live in my own house and I was in a time of life where I was not sure what to do as my ex had moved out and I as not sure what was happening. I enherited clothes from the families in the church.

Also I know few LDS, who have to stand in the line for Salvation Army to get some food for the family that week. They ask why they come and it is enough to say that they are without work. They are not questioned more about it.

For a Finnish or a Norwegean it is extremely terrible and humiliating to go ask help from anywhere and if they meet a bishop whos bodylanguage seems to hint to them, that it is their own foult they dont have money to buy food and no job, they sure wont go there again to even ask. I have a feeling that over here there are many, that become bitter and even leave the church, as they do not give any help to them, when needed.

I think once I did ask if church could help... I had only a very small student money from the state my ex had just moved out and refused to pay the bills... luckilyn I had my mother (not LDS). She payed our bills til I was ready with my education and got a job. Community denied help, as my ex had not informed, that he had moved out, he did not pay for the 2 kids support either and neither did the community as he had not informed that he had moved, and they did not take my word for it.

A frend of mine has to have his 2 kids living home, as all the new appartments are given to the refugies. They all are unemployed one student. One of them just sent 40 applications, but no work. He has been unemployed for some 20 years after he lost his business. They do get some unemployment money, but a lot of it goes to pop and cakes and candy... so what the mother is to do when there is no money for food?

Sometimes I just wonder where the line goes? When is a person/a family in such a state that the church wil help them?

The concept of the LDS welfare services is to help – not to become the provider. I suggest that when someone contacts a Bishop for help that they ask what they can do to get help. Many people would not like to pull weeds, do yard work, clean or perform service in order to receive help; which is interpreted as wanting a hand out and not really needing help. It is the purpose of the church to keep people invested in their own lives.

The Traveler

[LDSVALLEY]

Living in Nova Scotia, Canada the nearest storehouse is somewhere in Ontario approx 1800 Km away. We rely on local Wards and the contributions to Fast offering funds. The RS, EQ leaders or Bishop sit with a person in need fill out a needs form to determine need and help where they can. Sometimes they are asked to perform some type of service or personal development. Financial help is short term but the church always stands ready to help in other ways such as training, support, spiritual growth etc.

Often short term help such as meals etc are simply done by members to help each other out.

We teach Preparedness and other things. I know we have been hit in the Valley where I live with job losses but the province as a whole is doing okay so far.

[Moksha]

Maya, despite the Bishop's body language (maybe his underwear is too tight) do not hesitate to ask for help. A cabbage diet is only good if you have corned beef to go with it. I would also imagine the Scandinavian countries have a good system for helping in these cases. Have you spoken with them in person?

Wishing you the best, along with some lutefisk. :)

[Maya]

Maya, despite the Bishop's body language (maybe his underwear is too tight) do not hesitate to ask for help. A cabbage diet is only good if you have corned beef to go with it. I would also imagine the Scandinavian countries have a good system for helping in these cases. Have you spoken with them in person?

Wishing you the best, along with some lutefisk. :)

Moksha ... my case was 25 years ago... but I know there are others in that situation today, and I want to know what they could do. The hing that is sad is that they feel more welcome to Salvation Army than to the LDS... Well I survived my cabage diet well Would not harm to have one now either...

Traveller and LDS valley... thanks ... I never tought of it that they can ask what they could do to get that... I think a frend of mine has been told to get a job... I know he has tried even in a few countries, but nothing... anyone a work for a book keeper on the internett??

I think it is a great thing to be able to do something for the help. I suppose they could do some helpthings to other members that have problems like help with garden at someone who ahs a bad back or fixing someones apartment or... things just had to be well organised... hmmm

LDSvalley... yes there is a "good " social service in Northern countries, but unfortunatley it is foced by law to help first the refugies so nothing is left to the natives. It is amazing how there are people who fall in between. Like my friend IF he would kick the kids on the street he would get help... but what paretn does that kicks their kids on the street?

I feel sad seeing my friends being poisoned of this. But the truth is that it is not the difficulties it is how you handle them that is important. Getting bitter is not the answer anyway.

Thanks a lot guys I got som ideas which I will mail on... :)

[Hemidakota]

1. In USA there is the the bishops warehouse at least in Salt Lake is that anywhere eles in the world?

2. What kind of help can one get there where there is no warehouse?

3. When are things bad enough to get help fron Church?

I am asking this, as once in my life I had not money to buy anything but cabbage to eat for me. My kids got food real good meal in the school every day, so just a bit yoghurt's or bread was enough for them in teh evening. On weekends I think I made pancakes very often (mixed spinach or carrots int eh dough to make it a bit more nurising) then on Sundays we ate at my mothers. We did live in my own house and I was in a time of life where I was not sure what to do as my ex had moved out and I as not sure what was happening. I inherited clothes from the families in the church.

Also I know few LDS, who have to stand in the line for Salvation Army to get some food for the family that week. They ask why they come and it is enough to say that they are without work. They are not questioned more about it.

For a Finnish or a Norwegian it is extremely terrible and humiliating to go ask help from anywhere and if they meet a bishop who body language seems to hint to them, that it is their own fault they don't have money to buy food and no job, they sure wont go there again to even ask. I have a feeling that over here there are many, that become bitter and even leave the church, as they do not give any help to them, when needed.

I think once I did ask if church could help... I had only a very small student money from the state my ex had just moved out and refused to pay the bills... luckily I had my mother (not LDS). She payed our bills til I was ready with my education and got a job. Community denied help, as my ex had not informed, that he had moved out, he did not pay for the 2 kids support either and neither did the community as he had not informed that he had moved, and they did not take my word for it.

A frend of mine has to have his 2 kids living home, as all the new appartments are given to the refugies. They all are unemployed one student. One of them just sent 40 applications, but no work. He has been unemployed for some 20 years after he lost his business. They do get some unemployment money, but a lot of it goes to pop and cakes and candy... so what the mother is to do when there is no money for food?

Sometimes I just wonder where the line goes? When is a person/a family in such a state that the church wil help them?

Maya, did you approach the Bishop and do you still need help?

[Churchmouse]

The warehouse has stopped delivering to our area. Our RS President either takes the person to a local grocery store or does the shopping herself. She is then reimbursed by the Church.

[pam]

I always wondered how they did it in areas that had not the access to a storehouse. Good to know.

[LDSVALLEY]

Food vouchers for us are done through two grocery stores. Because of someone simply photocopying one a couple of years ago and going back more then once it is more difficult to get one now as they are numbered and only a few are available at a time. However our Bishop never lets anyone go without if they are in true need. I've taken a couple of different members without transportation to do this and it is sad how much pop, chips etc they buy with the church money. But we still must help where we can.

[pam]

It's too bad they can't do as they do with the storehouses. There is a list with specific necessity items and they have to be approved first. Instead of a free for all, get what I want kind of thing at the grocery store. Or is there and it's just not followed through with.

[LDSVALLEY]

I know the Bishopric gets a copy of purchases, I believe but am not positive it contains itemized purchases. Personally I believe I would tell them this is for necessity only and they might, but I imagine it would be hard after the fact to bring up they bought things they should not have. Or should have made better choices.

[pam]

I don't believe the fast offerings that we pay are to be used for chips and cokes etc. Therefore I think there should be a limitation on the types of things they can purchase.

[Maya]

I know some peole are asked in the ward to give donations. These are usually hys,hys things that only the precidency and the person asked knows of. I been so long in primary I dont really know how things work... Once the reliefsocisty president came with some bagsupes and some cokies which were welcome.

But what to do with a family where they do buy pop and candy and cokies but lack food! Mother of the family is furious, but that dont help much. 20 years unemployed you dont really feel like eating carrots... I understand that too... and the kids need something good too. Life is so hard sometimes. How ever, I am sure they might work for the food IF someone had somethig for them to do that they are able to do.

I am not sure how this would affect the unemployment money again, they probably would loose that if they are know to work, even if it would be for the food assistance. This may be why they have not used the work system in Church around here as if you are reserving unemployment money you loose all that or part of it, IF you do any kind of work to acieve benefits or money ... that s***s.

So here it has to be totally a gift... and Church says people should work for what they get... I find a conflict here! Maybe the Church should get more involved in helping people to get a job here in Northern Europe! Problem si that the social money and help you get is NOT enough! And if you work for some extra you loose the money or that amount of money you worked for, or house rent help or ...

I quess it is best to leave those people in their own misery, eating their candy

He is getting so negative it scares me, they both are. She cant even tell the bishop as he dont believe, understand her story. He is a "very spiritual brother". But sure has his foults. Not trying is NOT one of his foults though.

Yes it si difficult to deny cokies or such from a family that dont even have the food. Everyone needs something good too in their life, especially as they see the overfload everywhere and stil remember the taste of it.

[Churchmouse]

I always wondered how they did it in areas that had not the access to a storehouse. Good to know.

The storehouse in Columbus, Ohio used to make deliveries every two weeks to Huntington WV. People from our area would go there or someone would pick it up for them. The Church is cutting back in many areas. I suspect it may have something to do with the rapid growth of the Church in area with large numbers of poor, such as many African nations. Money is needed to build facilities for those members. That's a good thing.

[Moksha]

This may be why they have not used the work system in Church around here as if you are reserving unemployment money you loose all that or part of it, IF you do any kind of work to acieve benefits or money ... that s***s.

Work done for the Church, should be thought of as a contribution to a religious or charitable organization and that should not affect benefits received by the Norwegian government.

[john doe]

Generally if work is requested it is volunteer work and is not tied directly to any monetary amount. For instance, a person might be asked to help clean the church or its grounds if they are physically able and have the spare time to do so. Or they might be asked to assist or perform some service to someone else in the ward who has a hard time taking care of themselves. It's about helping each other get through tough times. Church Welfare, at least in the US, is about giving a hand up, not a handout.

[pam]

When I was first divorced, I had to rely several times on food orders from the Church. The only thing my Bishop asked of me was to donate some time to the Bishop's storehouse in stocking shelves and things they needed done there. I didn't have a problem with that at all. It was all about giving back what was being given to me.

[Hemidakota]

I know some peole are asked in the ward to give donations. These are usually hys,hys things that only the precidency and the person asked knows of. I been so long in primary I dont really know how things work... Once the reliefsocisty president came with some bagsupes and some cokies which were welcome.

But what to do with a family where they do buy pop and candy and cokies but lack food! Mother of the family is furious, but that dont help much. 20 years unemployed you dont really feel like eating carrots... I understand that too... and the kids need something good too. Life is so hard sometimes. How ever, I am sure they might work for the food IF someone had somethig for them to do that they are able to do.

I am not sure how this would affect the unemployment money again, they probably would loose that if they are know to work, even if it would be for the food assistance. This may be why they have not used the work system in Church around here as if you are reserving unemployment money you loose all that or part of it, IF you do any kind of work to acieve benefits or money ... that s***s.

So here it has to be totally a gift... and Church says people should work for what they get... I find a conflict here! Maybe the Church should get more involved in helping people to get a job here in Northern Europe! Problem si that the social money and help you get is NOT enough! And if you work for some extra you loose the money or that amount of money you worked for, or house rent help or ...

I quess it is best to leave those people in their own misery, eating their candy

He is getting so negative it scares me, they both are. She cant even tell the bishop as he dont believe, understand her story. He is a "very spiritual brother". But sure has his foults. Not trying is NOT one of his foults though.

Yes it si difficult to deny cokies or such from a family that dont even have the food. Everyone needs something good too in their life, especially as they see the overfload everywhere and stil remember the taste of it.

Ok, I am confused here, do you need help or you know one someone who needs help?

[pam]

She mentioned earlier in this thread that she was in this situation 25 years ago. So this isn't about her presently.

[pam]

From Maya's OP:

A frend of mine has to have his 2 kids living home, as all the new appartments are given to the refugies. They all are unemployed one student. One of them just sent 40 applications, but no work. He has been unemployed for some 20 years after he lost his business. They do get some unemployment money, but a lot of it goes to pop and cakes and candy... so what the mother is to do when there is no money for food?

Sometimes I just wonder where the line goes? When is a person/a family in such a state that the church wil help them?

[dazed-and-confused]

Food vouchers for us are done through two grocery stores. Because of someone simply photocopying one a couple of years ago and going back more then once it is more difficult to get one now as they are numbered and only a few are available at a time. However our Bishop never lets anyone go without if they are in true need. I've taken a couple of different members without transportation to do this and it is sad how much pop, chips etc they buy with the church money. But we still must help where we can.

I think it's sad, how we as a culture have identified with eating so much "crap" instead of real food, but yes, non-judgmental help, i guess.....that's really important, imho. You are absolutely right........we must help where we can. I recently started a job as kitchen manager of a homeless shelter that also teaches people how to cook and has a janatorial class as well. I see many people who come through with a very different interpretation of what is important to them in their situation. It's the "luxeries" that seem to help them feel that they are not "total losers", or "worthless of society".........they seem to feel "normal" with the small "luxeries" they get. So there is waste, of course, but "we must help where we can".

[pam]

That being said dazed...why in an area that has a storehouse readily available there be such a limitation on what is available and what they are able to get be different than an area that doesn't? Why should people who don't have access be allowed to indulge in these "luxuries as you call them" and others not?

Again I feel fast offerings that are paid should be authorized for "necessity" items, not items such as chips and soda that aren't a necessity.

But I understand in the situation you are working in..that those little things are important for their sense of self and worthiness.

[pam]

I think perhaps in my line of work and seeing people come in and buy $20-$30 worth of junk and pay for it with welfare money is why I'm pretty defensive over this. It's just a huge pet peeve of mine.

[Maya]

Yes Hemi ... I know a few and have known a few that need or needed help. I never heard that anyone had been asked to do something for it, but I thibnk that is a very good thing to do! Would make it easier to give too adn I am sure most woudl love to work for it too! But then I never been in to this kind of work in Church anyway... usually I ahve missed all questions for helping too as I been in primary all teh time.. or I been one of the poor ones

Moksha (with the Maya ending -ha.. for water, beach :)) It is not loner than some 3-5 years that here in Norway we were able to take our tidingsum in our taxes to get a refind (I think it is) and I doubt that people in Finland can do that even today! My friend has always payed the full tidings even from the social aid they get.

Eh, funny the stakeconferance we just had today for whole Northern countries (Scandinavia dont include Finland, North does) kind of handled this problem and also getting people back in the church... bouth of which were a part of a mail I sent to someone in the Helsinki stake I know.

I just wish I could do more than give a warm handshake to those who are in need of something vital.

Churchmouse and Pam.. yes the Church has and needs to deminish what they are doing, paying for. I think members should somehow be able to start "businesses" that not only give out help but alos get money from somewhere so they could survive in each country without help from the main office... but how!

I suppose more members should feel the love of our saviour thowards all of us, also those in need. All too often we here turn our backs on the needy saying: thank God I am not like them... Too often we think that the person is to balim of his/her situation him/her self and turn our backs the them. WWJD really turn his back?

John.. I like that possibility a lot, to do something for waht you get. As I wrote to this friend of mine I also wrote about that, doing something for the money. I know we have cleaner with contract in our Church, but my DH is taking care of the outside of the building and he sure can use some help. I think one could even start helping families in the church like painting walls for an older couple, or working int eh garden for them or looking after someones kids (especially when they are in the Temple). And everyone could get a request of what kind of work needs to be done in their home that someone could help with, even the richest, so everyone could get some help so no body would feel that they fell of the train... and if they insist on paying for the job, they can give the money to fasting offers. Maybe bishop should always have a list of jobs to those that need help.

One problem over here is that nobady admits that they need help, like my friends, they are so afraid of beeing stampled as those who live on others.

Yeah it is easy for me to write this here on the internett ... and what do I do??? I cant even make myself to visit an inactive sister and give her some cokies or something:banghead: ... So if you think I write this as I am so good ... you are wrong... I am not good at all.. I wish I was and had strength... and $. I would do everything and be a good person if only.....

I thnk I blushed up to my ears listening to the profet today... I think I need a kick in my.... to repend....

But it feels that it is so mych easier to be kind and nice if you have:

so keep`em coming folks... as a metter of fact I cant see that I have recieved any... dont tell John has got them all... PAM!! (This is the sound in Finish of when you hit someone or shoot them )

[Maya]

I don't believe the fast offerings that we pay are to be used for chips and cokes etc. Therefore I think there should be a limitation on the types of things they can purchase.

Uh Pam... some fun you should have in this life....

But I do agree people eat too much junk and many eat too much food too! Too strong food. I am a good giorl and have always eaten what has been put on my plate... and it shows... so people DONT be good, learn to know your limits! And dont push in more, not even to missionaries.

Oh that too was in the conferance...