Resigned honorably incessant nieghbor in Denial.

[soulman200973]

I left the church 15 months ago. Over this time a nieghbor who converted into lds within the last 7 years on stake high council insists I am still a member. Told my ex bishop to tell this incessant nieghbor that my leaving is official and that my beliefs do not even resemble LDS currently(look under personal beliefs in my profile). I am dumfounded as to why someone with all these special gifts of Holy Ghost,Priesthood calling and office and intelligence does not get it? Yes the church now looses $7000.00/ year of my take home pay(they say it means nothing to them) and my service in that organization. I am sure by now I have been replaced by hundreds of people paying tithes and offerings and doing service for the LDS. I have moved on why is it hard for others to do so? LDS was a pathway to something else, and does not an article of faith state we are all allowed to worship as we please if we are or are not of the LDS faith?:)

[Guest Alana]

Sorry your neighbor is a pain. There are pains in the butt in all religions, all walks of life, we're not that special.

[NeuroTypical]

I have moved on why is it hard for others to do so?

Well, I must say, this situation most certainly is not unique to mormons. When folks have strong and deep opinions about religion (and politics and race and jobs, for that matter), it can pain them when someone they care about switches to 'another side'.

Consider the neighbor who won't accept it that you went from Democrat to Republican. Or athiest to evangelical. Or turned your back on the community's lifeblood of coal mine work and went to college. Or bought a foreign car. Or married someone he disapproves of.

Yeah, your neighbor needs to accept reality. But he's struggling because he's a fallible human with human weaknesses, not because he's mormon.

No, we really don't care about missing out on your tithing. If you made a difference with your service, I'm sure it will be missed though.

Hope whatever you've found is working for you.

LM

[Wingnut]

I left the church 15 months ago. Over this time a nieghbor who converted into lds within the last 7 years on stake high council insists I am still a member. Told my ex bishop to tell this incessant nieghbor that my leaving is official and that my beliefs do not even resemble LDS currently(look under personal beliefs in my profile).

Did you resign your membership, ask to not be contacted, or just stop attending? That could affect your neighbor's behavior.

I am dumfounded as to why someone with all these special gifts of Holy Ghost,Priesthood calling and office and intelligence does not get it?

Perhaps because they don't have the gift of know-it-all-ism.

Yes the church now looses $7000.00/ year of my take home pay(they say it means nothing to them) and my service in that organization.

They say it means nothing to them? Really? The bishop told you that your tithing means nothing? I find that hard to believe.

I have moved on why is it hard for others to do so?

Well, you were LDS. Perhaps you remember that it's a very missionary oriented Church, and the that the three-fold mission of the Church also includes perfecting the Saints.

LDS was a pathway to something else,

Most LDS consider it a pathway to exaltation, and are saddened when someone leaves that path, especially if it's someone they care about.

and does not an article of faith state we are all allowed to worship as we please if we are or are not of the LDS faith?:)

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Again, we are a missionary-oriented Church. While the AoF does state the argument you present, it doesn't mean that we don't try to share.

[Vort]

Hey, c'mon! It's SEVEN GRAND, Soulman! What do you expect? That represents, like, eight thousand boxes of green Jello. That stuff doesn't grow on trees, you know.

[soulman200973]

Did you resign your membership, ask to not be contacted, or just stop attending? That could affect your neighbor's behavior.

Resign no contact except I take my son to scouts.. I had to do this the hometeachers kept visiting me as a non-member!

Perhaps because they don't have the gift of know-it-all-ism. No one does! But the nieghbor can listen when I speak!

They say it means nothing to them? Really? The bishop told you that your tithing means nothing? I find that hard to believe. Thats what was said!

Well, you were LDS. Perhaps you remember that it's a very missionary oriented Church, and the that the three-fold mission of the Church also includes perfecting the Saints. Not an excuse for this disrespect of my time and beliefs sorry wing nut.

Most LDS consider it a pathway to exaltation, and are saddened when someone leaves that path, especially if it's someone they care about. That is furthest from the truth this nieghbor is nosey and wants to know what I am doing to financially prepare for my retirement as well!

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Again, we are a missionary-oriented Church. While the AoF does state the argument you present, it doesn't mean that we don't try to share. You could share with me if I permit this but I resigned that really says it all.

[soulman200973]

Well, I must say, this situation most certainly is not unique to mormons. When folks have strong and deep opinions about religion (and politics and race and jobs, for that matter), it can pain them when someone they care about switches to 'another side'.

Consider the neighbor who won't accept it that you went from Democrat to Republican. Or athiest to evangelical. Or turned your back on the community's lifeblood of coal mine work and went to college. Or bought a foreign car. Or married someone he disapproves of.

Yeah, your neighbor needs to accept reality. But he's struggling because he's a fallible human with human weaknesses, not because he's mormon.

No, we really don't care about missing out on your tithing. If you made a difference with your service, I'm sure it will be missed though.

Hope whatever you've found is working for you.

LM

very diplomatic and appropriate response you get an A.

[soulman200973]

Sorry your neighbor is a pain. There are pains in the butt in all religions, all walks of life, we're not that special.

That was my initial thoughts but need the ex-bishop to intevene so the guy might actually think about the situation.

[Guest Alana]

Most LDS consider it a pathway to exaltation, and are saddened when someone leaves that path, especially if it's someone they care about. That is furthest from the truth this nieghbor is nosey and wants to know what I am doing to financially prepare for my retirement as well!

Problem solved. You just have a nosy neighbor. My personal advice is to act like some sort of barn animal when he tries talking to you. Horse, cow, chicken, doesn't matter which.

[Wingnut]

Resign no contact except I take my son to scouts.. I had to do this the hometeachers kept visiting me as a non-member!

Well, if you had your name removed from the records, then the neighbor can really do whatever he wants. If your name is still on the records of the Church, and you have specifically requested that you not ever be contacted by the Church, and the neighbor continues to try to pressure you (with regards to the Church, and more than just conversation with a neighbor), then you may even have legal recourse against the Church. Most bishops take DNCs very seriously, as well they should.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Wingnut

[Guest Godless]

To echo what Alana said, it seems that you just have a nosy neighbor who just happens to be of the same religion that you just left. The Church can't control his actions, so you're going to have to face this situation mano-y-mano. As a fellow apostate, my advice would be to confront the guy honestly and respectfully. Politely explain to him your reasons for leaving the Church and try to get him to understand that your new worldview is completely incompatible with LDS doctrine. I did that with the home teachers that my local ward assigned to me (I haven't taken my name off the Church records), and I haven't heard from them since. I know that closed-mindedness is a hard thing to break down, but you're going to have to try your best to do just that if you want this guy to leave you alone. He needs to realize that his actions are inappropriate, and if the Elders won't put him in his place, then you're going to have to do it yourself.

[Wingnut]

I know that closed-mindedness is a hard thing to break down,

Single-mindedness is even harder, and that's what it sounds like the neighbor may suffer from.

[beefche]

Since threads on this board never go off on tangents (/sarcasm), I have a question. Why do people who no longer believe in the LDS faith not remove their name?

Here's my problem. I get assigned a person for VT, the bishop has responsibility for the temporal and spiritual welfare of an individual and relies on my stewardship to help him with this. I find out that a person wants no contact from the church. But they refuse to take their name off the records. If your name is on the record, you will receive contact. We try our best to honor the no contact, but there is no official way to mark a record "no contact"--so it's by word of mouth. If that gets lost or whatever, then you've got an angry person "I've told you people over and over to not contact me!"

So, we've angered someone and I can't fulfill my stewardship. I don't feel guilty at all (because I'm not allowed to fulfill my stewardship), but I feel something...not sure what to call it. I feel "what if I didn't do enough? Should I just try to contact that person? Just be their friend? No spiritual message or anything...just make sure they are ok, do things to help them, etc."

So, help me out. Why does one not remove his/her name from the records and then get angry when they get contacted?

[Guest Believer_1829]

Since threads on this board never go off on tangents (/sarcasm), I have a question. Why do people who no longer believe in the LDS faith not remove their name?

Here's my problem. I get assigned a person for VT, the bishop has responsibility for the temporal and spiritual welfare of an individual and relies on my stewardship to help him with this. I find out that a person wants no contact from the church. But they refuse to take their name off the records. If your name is on the record, you will receive contact. We try our best to honor the no contact, but there is no official way to mark a record "no contact"--so it's by word of mouth. If that gets lost or whatever, then you've got an angry person "I've told you people over and over to not contact me!"

So, we've angered someone and I can't fulfill my stewardship. I don't feel guilty at all (because I'm not allowed to fulfill my stewardship), but I feel something...not sure what to call it. I feel "what if I didn't do enough? Should I just try to contact that person? Just be their friend? No spiritual message or anything...just make sure they are ok, do things to help them, etc."

So, help me out. Why does one not remove his/her name from the records and then get angry when they get contacted?

I think they don't because they just don't care anymore and they are moving on with their lives. Also, depending on your local leadership, having your named removed can turn into an ordeal that they don't feel inclined to bother with.

[Guest Godless]

Since threads on this board never go off on tangents (/sarcasm), I have a question. Why do people who no longer believe in the LDS faith not remove their name?

Here's my problem. I get assigned a person for VT, the bishop has responsibility for the temporal and spiritual welfare of an individual and relies on my stewardship to help him with this. I find out that a person wants no contact from the church. But they refuse to take their name off the records. If your name is on the record, you will receive contact. We try our best to honor the no contact, but there is no official way to mark a record "no contact"--so it's by word of mouth. If that gets lost or whatever, then you've got an angry person "I've told you people over and over to not contact me!"

So, we've angered someone and I can't fulfill my stewardship. I don't feel guilty at all (because I'm not allowed to fulfill my stewardship), but I feel something...not sure what to call it. I feel "what if I didn't do enough? Should I just try to contact that person? Just be their friend? No spiritual message or anything...just make sure they are ok, do things to help them, etc."

So, help me out. Why does one not remove his/her name from the records and then get angry when they get contacted?

Personally, I chose not to remove my name because I don't want to create more tension between my parents and I over the religion issue than there already is. I've received very little contact from the Church over the last few years, and I've always been very cordial on the rare occasions that I have been contacted.

I actually agree 100% with what you're saying, so some extent. If being contacted by the Church bothers someone, said person should get his/her name removed from the records. I think most people fail to do it because they think it's an unreasonable process to have to go through just to be left alone (and to be honest, I'm inclined to agree). Think about it, what other Church will continue to keep tabs on you years after you've stopped attending? I know some evangelical denominations like to look after their bretheren and sisteren, but they eventually lose track of the lost sheep because their records aren't as thorough as the LDS Church's. It's somewhat unfortunate that there's so much paperwork and interviews involved in being removed from the Church records, but I can honestly say that I'd do it in a heartbeat if I ever felt that the Church was being too intrusive.

[soulman200973]

Problem solved. You just have a nosy neighbor. My personal advice is to act like some sort of barn animal when he tries talking to you. Horse, cow, chicken, doesn't matter which.

Hilarious but I would be respectful

[soulman200973]

Since threads on this board never go off on tangents (/sarcasm), I have a question. Why do people who no longer believe in the LDS faith not remove their name?

Here's my problem. I get assigned a person for VT, the bishop has responsibility for the temporal and spiritual welfare of an individual and relies on my stewardship to help him with this. I find out that a person wants no contact from the church. But they refuse to take their name off the records. If your name is on the record, you will receive contact. We try our best to honor the no contact, but there is no official way to mark a record "no contact"--so it's by word of mouth. If that gets lost or whatever, then you've got an angry person "I've told you people over and over to not contact me!"

So, we've angered someone and I can't fulfill my stewardship. I don't feel guilty at all (because I'm not allowed to fulfill my stewardship), but I feel something...not sure what to call it. I feel "what if I didn't do enough? Should I just try to contact that person? Just be their friend? No spiritual message or anything...just make sure they are ok, do things to help them, etc."

So, help me out. Why does one not remove his/her name from the records and then get angry when they get contacted?

No Idea! It takes all of 3 weeks to headquarters and I did not even state my reasons why in my letter . I can see why this is wasted time for those in the church. Unless the church wants those unbelievers on record or that individual thinks the spirit that posesses them in this life will magically change in the next.

[beefche]

You both mention the ordeal or lengthy process to remove a name. And I can certainly understand when a bishop or whomever extends their authority and makes it such. But the process isn't that bad. Write a letter, send it to SLC, and voila! your name is removed after the processing.

I know there are circumstances when someone may not want to remove their name (Godless, yours sounds like one such). But, the ones who are so furious when they receive a visit from a different person from church should just do it. We've had members actually threatened with a gun--I mean, come on! Just remove your name and you don't have to resort to violence to end friendly visits. I have no problems asking someone if they wish to do so.

[Mahone]

I was not aware of the lack of being able to instate a "do not contact" feature on MLS, even just a quick bodge job like putting it in extra notes for example. I was assistant ward clerk for a time and while I had very little to do with MLS I'm pretty sure whenever I printed off a member list, those members that had requested no contact were listed as such automatically - so there must be a way of doing it.

As well as the process of having your name removed from the church records being quite daunting for some (the process usually takes over a month during which they attempt to change your mind), others don't disbelieve the church, but have requested no contact for other reasons (like a spouse).

[soulman200973]

Personally, I chose not to remove my name because I don't want to create more tension between my parents and I over the religion issue than there already is. I've received very little contact from the Church over the last few years, and I've always been very cordial on the rare occasions that I have been contacted.

I actually agree 100% with what you're saying, so some extent. If being contacted by the Church bothers someone, said person should get his/her name removed from the records. I think most people fail to do it because they think it's an unreasonable process to have to go through just to be left alone (and to be honest, I'm inclined to agree). Think about it, what other Church will continue to keep tabs on you years after you've stopped attending? I know some evangelical denominations like to look after their bretheren and sisteren, but they eventually lose track of the lost sheep because their records aren't as thorough as the LDS Church's. It's somewhat unfortunate that there's so much paperwork and interviews involved in being removed from the Church records, but I can honestly say that I'd do it in a heartbeat if I ever felt that the Church was being too intrusive.

A 10 minute interview for me no such inquisition here. Like I said I resigned and was not excommunicated.Lets not change the facts as they exist, I have all the documentation and witnesses to back this up,lets not rewrite the history to satisfy our ego guys come on. I was a RM and left the church after 24 years and temple marraige(still married civil wise just the temple marraige is over obviously) because my beliefs changed end of story.

Edited August 6, 2009 by soulman200973
clarification of facts

[beefche]

soulman, I don't think Godless is referring to you personally. He's talking in generalities...he's not questioning your removal or the facts surrounding that. He's answering my general derailment question.

BTW, when I see your name, I keep singing the Blues Brothers song, I'm a Soul Man...na na na na na....

[Guest Godless]

A 10 minute interview for me no such inquisition here. Like I said I resigned and was not excommunicated.Lets not change the facts as they exist, I have all the documentation and witnesses to back this up,lets not rewrite the history to satisfy our ego guys come on. I was a RM and left the church after 24 years and temple marraige(still married civil wise just the temple marraige is over obviously) because my beliefs changed end of story.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. If you think I was addressing your situation specifically, please rest assured that I wasn't. I was answering Beefche's question in regard to the reasons why people stay on the Church records. Everyone's situation is different. There is nothing about my relationship with the Church that compels me to go through the resignation process. Your situation was obviously different from mine.

[Moksha]

Hey, c'mon! It's SEVEN GRAND, Soulman! What do you expect? That represents, like, eight thousand boxes of green Jello. That stuff doesn't grow on trees, you know.

That is over half the Jell-O required for the BYU "Back to School" fall jamboree.

[Snow]

I left the church 15 months ago. Over this time a nieghbor who converted into lds within the last 7 years on stake high council insists I am still a member. Told my ex bishop to tell this incessant nieghbor that my leaving is official and that my beliefs do not even resemble LDS currently(look under personal beliefs in my profile). I am dumfounded as to why someone with all these special gifts of Holy Ghost,Priesthood calling and office and intelligence does not get it? Yes the church now looses $7000.00/ year of my take home pay(they say it means nothing to them) and my service in that organization. I am sure by now I have been replaced by hundreds of people paying tithes and offerings and doing service for the LDS. I have moved on why is it hard for others to do so? LDS was a pathway to something else, and does not an article of faith state we are all allowed to worship as we please if we are or are not of the LDS faith?:)

1. It's America. Your neighbor can think what he wants.

2. Why on this green earth would you care what he thinks?

3. Why do you think people on this forum who neither you or your neighbor have ever met, would understand your neighbor better than you?

[Guest SmarterBlue]

A 10 minute interview for me no such inquisition here. Like I said I resigned and was not excommunicated.Lets not change the facts as they exist, I have all the documentation and witnesses to back this up,lets not rewrite the history to satisfy our ego guys come on. I was a RM and left the church after 24 years and temple marraige(still married civil wise just the temple marraige is over obviously) because my beliefs changed end of story.

I would think that if the spouse is an active member she wasn’t happy to hear her celestial marriage was over with. IMOP, even if she did say she was okay with the temple marriage being over with, the sisters she talks with got a totally different story.

It would seem there are a lot of unresolved issues here, but I have to wonder what intent or goal could be achieved by posting musings of active LDS member on an LDS forum? I’m certain the neighbor is only trying his best. If I don’t want to talk to my neighbors (and often times I really don’t) then I will simply give a polite hello as I’m walking to my car. I find the best solution to not talking to my neighbor is – not talking to my neighbor.

I don’t see how anyone is trying to change facts; however, this is a mostly religious forum with wide user and culture base. I know that when I make a post here I can expect someone to agree and disagree with me.

Without having been in the same room as you and your bishop it’s hard to make a judgment on what he said in regards to the tithing. Nevertheless, having talked to several church leaders I doubt he worded it as, “it means nothing to me.” I believe the bishop was right in his assertion that the church will move forward. I have to agree with others that the service will be missed the most.

With an end note (and much like your neighbor to your dismay) I would have to say I hope you change your mind. I also acknowledge and respect free agency. Perhaps the best course of action is to tell your neighbor how you really feel and leave it at that.