Non LDS Egyptologist agrees with Joseph Smith

[Jbs2763]

Saw this on Backyard Professor

im sure there are web pages to go with...but i am feeling lazy

[bmy-]

Saw this on Backyard Professor

im sure there are web pages to go with...but i am feeling lazy

Where in the video was that? I skimmed through it but didn't catch a name. Doesn't exactly look credible which is why i'm asking.

[Jbs2763]

if i remember right, he starts off by saying the dudes name

[Moksha]

Doesn't exactly look credible which is why i'm asking.

Whether credible or not, Kerry Shirts is a hoot and puts together some very interesting videos. They should be watched.

[Hemidakota]

Does it really matter if they agree with the prophet?

[Vort]

Whether credible or not, Kerry Shirts is a hoot and puts together some very interesting videos. They should be watched.

You think Kerry Shirts is not credible? Why not?

[mlbrowninwa]

can't watch here at work, but will look forward to seeing it tonight at home.

[Moksha]

You think Kerry Shirts is not credible? Why not?

That was in response to Bmy's thought that it does not look credible. I said these videos were worth watching either way. Hemidakota put is more succinctly when he asked, "Does it really matter...?".

[Vort]

That was in response to Bmy's thought that it does not look credible. I said these videos were worth watching either way. Hemidakota put is more succinctly when he asked, "Does it really matter...?".

Ah, okay.

[Lstinthwrld]

I just read this article and the video host was way to excited about an article that states Joseph smiths esoteric process of deciphering the hieroglyphs was wrong. Ya gotta take everything in context and don't grasp at straws. Also, unincluded in the article are criticisms of the authors peers. Is all this accepted "science"? This is the main problem the non mormon world has with the mormon church. Back up the argument. Don't take bits of convenient information and say "see our prophets are right!" When mormons are wrong just admit it and move on. There have been many problems with prophecy through the years just move on.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Lstinthwrld

[Maxel]

I just read this article and the video host was way to excited about an article that states Joseph smiths esoteric process of deciphering the hieroglyphs was wrong. Ya gotta take everything in context and don't grasp at straws. Also, unincluded in the article are criticisms of the authors peers. Is all this excepted "science"? This is the main problem the non mormon world has with the mormon church. Back up the argument. Don't take bits of convenient information and say "see our prophets are right!" When mormons are wrong just admit it and move on. There have been many problems with prophecy through the years just move on.

I haven't gotten to read the article, but I believe Mr. Shirts was explicit in stating that Bell didn't wholly agree with Joseph Smith or believe Smith was a prophet who translated the facsimile correct- only that Bell partly agrees with Smith's interpretation.

Perhaps you're committing a little straw-grasping yourself?

[Hemidakota]

For those who have not had a witness from the Spirit, it matters. All the false info out there needs to be exposed for what it is. There are already enough stumbling blocks out there to non-members. Anything that shows anti material for what it is should be supported.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

see pages 20 +

http://www.mormonthink.com/Lanny_Bell_article.pdf

Pg 22: “the few vignettes accompanying this text are not standardized, but display great variation”

There is no standard way to illustrate the pictures. Anyone claiming that JS renditions were “not standard” do not understand that there is NO STANDARD.

Pg 23 in footnotes #21 – the deceased on the bier is NOT Osiris… The dead were identified with Osiris – concerning the resurrection of the deceased humans…

Anti’s say it is not Abraham, that it is Osiris. Lanny bell states it is not Osiris, but a dead person becoming like “Osirus”. The person on the bier is a non-mummified person being resurrected. Repeat – the deceased on the bier is NOT Osiris. The anti's (who are not Egyptologists) were wrong in saying that it was Osiris. It is not Osiris, it is a dead person being resurrected.

For the minions then yes but those who are called by the Spirit, it will not matter what the world states.

[Lstinthwrld]

I would be interested in your explanation as to how I am grasping at straws. I have not made any declarations to defend. The only statement I made is this guy is dwelling on one bit of information that even with an extremely zealous spin does nothing to support Joseph Smiths translation and he presents it like its world changing information. Its not. He obviously ignores the rest of the information in the essay. If he didn't he wouldn't be half as excited as he was about it. The video makes mormons at large look bad.

[Lstinthwrld]

It should matter to the spirit called as well as the minions. The lds church is a very missionary based church and as such should not be content with idiotic statements made by church hierarchy on down to laypeople. Most people these days who look at a new religion to join want at least credibility. And the statement that "oh you wouldn't understand you are not spirit called" does not promote credibility. Do not settle for the simple religious uninformed answers about these issues. Educate yourselves so you may have intelligent conversation about these issues. Where mistakes are made admit fault fix it as a church community and move on.

[Hemidakota]

If the church had to step up [PR department] to every person making claims against it and stealing away the precious time of not focusing on missionary work, redeeming the dead, and perfecting the Saints; adding a 4th tasking here [preparing the way for the Lord's return], what will be accomplish? Zilch...

The stone will keep rolling down the mountain as it reaches the bottom with great momentum but will not stop for a simple video like this... :)

[Lstinthwrld]

removing stumbling blocks should not be a job to be set aside period. And you are right the video in and of itself is inconsequential but the underlying issue is not. It is a huge issue in the way a lot of people see the church and the claims it makes. How can the church and especially the church members be happy having the credibility of the organization questioned at the very core?

[beefche]

removing stumbling blocks should not be a job to be set aside period. And you are right the video in and of itself is inconsequential but the underlying issue is not. It is a huge issue in the way a lot of people see the church and the claims it makes. How can the church and especially the church members be happy having the credibility of the organization questioned at the very core?

Seriously? You mean the Church of Jesus Christ has NEVER had any criticism about it's core? I suppose I should re-check my Bible, cause I am almost certain it lists critics of the Lord's church and core beliefs.

[Lstinthwrld]

So just stick your head in the sand and its all good right?

[beefche]

removing stumbling blocks should not be a job to be set aside period. And you are right the video in and of itself is inconsequential but the underlying issue is not. It is a huge issue in the way a lot of people see the church and the claims it makes. How can the church and especially the church members be happy having the credibility of the organization questioned at the very core?

This is what you said. I'm going to take a guess and say you are not a member of the LDS church. So, you don't know what it is like to be questioned on every single thing I believe. As a missionary, I was threatened with arrest, had rocks/bottles thrown at me, cursed, yelled at 2 inches from my face, ridiculed, and even sexually harrassed. All because I believe a 14 year old boy saw God. Since my mission, I have had to defend my faith...not with such harsh measures challenging me, but I've had criticisms. I think I can confidently say that I am not sticking my head in the sand.

But the deal is, criticisms will never go away. Our core beliefs also will never go away. You can talk all you want about marketing and public relations, but the reality is the Gospel is not something to be compromised. I will stand proudly as a witness of Jesus Christ and never try to excuse or color His doctrines. I will not compromise on doctrines. I can be kind and understanding, but unequivocal in my beliefs of the LDS doctrines.

[Vort]

I just read this article and the video host was way to excited about an article that states Joseph smiths esoteric process of deciphering the hieroglyphs was wrong.

Then you missed his point.

Also, unincluded in the article are criticisms of the authors peers. Is all this excepted "science"?

I have never heard of "excepted science". I think the whole idea of science is that you don't grant special exceptions. From what, exactly, do you think the science should be excepted?

This is the main problem the non mormon world has with the mormon church. Back up the argument.

Let's see if I understand you correctly. The non-Mormon Christian world, which by and large believes in --

• ex nihilo creation
• an earth that is about 6,000 years old since its creation
• a flood inundating the entire globe for a year less than 5,000 years ago
• the falsity of organic evolution
• all of the various science-defying miracles of the Bible

-- this world's problem with Mormonism is that we aren't scientific enough?

I don't think so.

Don't take bits of convenient information and say "see our prophets are right!" When mormons are wrong just admit it and move on. There have been many problems with prophecy through the years just move on.

Prove it. Please list out those "many problems". Make sure you can substantiate your allegations, not just reproduce the specious lists that many Mormon-haters have generated and promulgated through the years.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Vort

[Lstinthwrld]

Where does it say that I am mormon hater or against the lds church? I have many lds friends that I love very much. I count some of the missionaries in my area as close friends as well and we talk often on many subjects. On tha flip side I have friends that have left the church as they have come to see for themselves the problems and issues. I am not a "christian" I have no stake in the christian vs mormon crap that goes on. How dare you list me as a mormon hater.

First before I list some problems with prophecy are your prophets God inspired and recieve their revelations/prophecies directly from god/

[beefche]

Who's calling you a Mormon hater?

[Lstinthwrld]

Vort did. And since I have established that I don't believe what he very ignorantly assumed I did I would like him to back up his argument without reverting to bashing.

[beefche]

First before I list some problems with prophecy are your prophets God inspired and recieve their revelations/prophecies directly from god/

Lst, you have to realize that you are not the first, second, thrid, or 2,098,230 person to list contradictions. In fact, some of our own members have listed contradictions. So, if you want to help us see the contradictions, feel free...just know we will be extremely surprised if you find a new angle. In fact, if you can, I will award you New Angler of the Month--and I'll call you I'm asking other .netters to help me out--look for that new angle.

[beefche]

Vort said: Make sure you can substantiate your allegations, not just reproduce the specious lists that many Mormon-haters have generated and promulgated through the years.

Wow, this should be interesting. Vort says to not quote Mormon haters and you said he called you one.