Tolerance

[Misshalfway]

So when the rest of the world says they are tolerant of Mormons, we need to still think of the limitations of this tolerance, such as not "enduring it without protest or reaction", eh?

:)

Yeah. I am currently reading Rough Stone Rolling and it appears Joseph Smith was good at this. He didn't really ever try to "prove" he was right. He gave the people the information and let them work it out on their own and with God.

I think we have to let people choose and we need to stay out of people's business without rejecting the people themselves. I think this is part of the charity we are all striving for.

[talisyn]

Does anyone say they are tolerant of Mormons?

[StallionMcBeastly]

Tolerance has become a new progressive slogan.

"Tolerance Tolerance Tolerance" is constantly reinforced in schools. (At least the ones I've attended).

The new form of "tolerance" IMO is terrible. To be the new "tolerant" you must accept everything and everyone as A-OKAY or else you're a bigot.

It seems, at least to me, that you're only considered tolerant if you fall into line with a specific progressive form of thought.

I could go on forever about this! I'll stop now.

[Moksha]

Does anyone say they are tolerant of Mormons?

Only when they are falling in line with a specific form of "progressive" thought. As Stallion McBeasty puts it, "To be the new "tolerant" you must accept everything and everyone as A-OKAY or else you're a bigot."

[bmy-]

Did the early LDS members not ask for tolerance..? Live and let live. It doesn't bother me a bit that our society as a whole is moving away from 'Christian' values.. It works in cycles..

Edited August 26, 2009 by bmy-

[Elphaba]

I fear it's being pushed way too hard on the rising generation.

My little sister had a back-to-school night for her public high school. Everywhere- in the classrooms, hallways, cafeteria...- were posters advocating tolerance and the acceptance of diversity.>snip< President Monson's remarks that sin often wears the halloween mask of tolerance a few General Conferences ago, and I'm wondering...

I feel your pain.

We both seem to be surrounded by people holding/putting up signs that offend and scare us, and that we both feel are dangerous to everyone's well-being. Yet, there's nothing we can immediately do about it, which is as it should be.

It sucks though, doesn't it?

Elphaba

[Maxel]

It sucks though, doesn't it?

Elphaba

Yeah.

[NeuroTypical]

We both seem to be surrounded by people holding/putting up signs that offend and scare us, and that we both feel are dangerous to everyone's well-being. Yet, there's nothing we can immediately do about it, which is as it should be.

It sucks though, doesn't it?

Actually, we homeschool. We can do something quite easily about forced exposure to offensive and scary and dangerous stuff - we don't.

LM

(Glad to have you posting again - that thread had me worried too!)

[Moksha]

Did the early LDS members not ask for tolerance..? Live and let live. It doesn't bother me a bit that our society as a whole is moving away from 'Christian' values.. It works in cycles..

Or if not in cycles, then at least tolerance is okay if it is for your group only. Perhaps that 'turn the other cheek' business gets wearisome if sustained too long.

[Maxel]

Or if not in cycles, then at least tolerance is okay if it is for your group only. Perhaps that 'turn the other cheek' business gets wearisome if sustained too long.

What is this supposed to mean? Please elaborate, oh quixotic one.

Perhaps you are agreeing that the kind of tolerance encouraged by the world- the kind of tolerance that demands we accept homosexuality as normal but cannot stand traditional Christian values- is bad? Elder Bednar called this the 'tyranny of tolerance'- do you agree with that idea?

[Moksha]

What is this supposed to mean? Please elaborate, oh quixotic one.

I meant that we desire tolerance for ourselves but can too easily ignore the golden rule in extending that tolerance to others, if one of our pet hatreds kicks into gear.

[Just_A_Guy]

Oddly, sometimes we develop a bizarre form of self-hatred whereby we are willing to give others rights we would never dream of demanding for ourselves . . . perhaps the most prominent example's being the liberal LDS wing's support for government recognition of nontraditional marriages.

[Guest anon88]

inappropriate

Edited August 27, 2009 by Gwen

[Maxel]

Thanks for the explanation, Moksha. I think that the limits and bounds of the tolerance we extend to others are important to know. I like what hordak said earlier- there's a difference between tolerance and acceptance. There's also a difference between tolerance and acceptance for behaviors and actions, I think.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Maxel

[ferretrunner]

I'm all for it. Give me a box to stand on, and listen as I shout:

"I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ, and I believe that peace and joy in this world is best obtained by bending my will to His! I'm teaching my two girls to dress modestly and remain celebate until marriage! (They also won't be dating until they're 16.) We believe the definition of marriage is that one guy marries a girl, and anything else is not to be called a marriage! I'm teaching them that the guy should earn the living and the girl should raise the kids! Now who wants to come shower me with acceptance of my diversity? Form a line now, no pushing or shoving!"

[A hearty debate then ensues, on why the posters hanging everywhere are damnable lies.]

LM

(For extra credit, maybe I could also issue forth a zinger like this one.)

LM,

Ok. I disagree with some of your traditional beliefs you set forth. But, you have the right to raise your family in that manner. Will you accept the fact that I believe differently? Women are more than mothers. I have a mind and skills that are sorely needed in this world. Would you say I am less a woman or less a believer than you? Would I be wrong to raise my girls (if I had any) that it was ok for them to develop their minds and work outside the home? That's tolerance.

[Maxel]

LM,

Ok. I disagree with some of your traditional beliefs you set forth. But, you have the right to raise your family in that manner. Will you accept the fact that I believe differently? Women are more than mothers. I have a mind and skills that are sorely needed in this world. Would you say I am less a woman or less a believer than you? Would I be wrong to raise my girls (if I had any) that it was ok for them to develop their minds and work outside the home? That's tolerance.

I think you miss the point of LM's post, ferretrunner. The point (I think) he was making is that the rhetoric about being tolerant of others (when what is really meant is "acceptance and validation of others' beliefs") is hypocritical; that kind of tolerance is unilateral. It demands acceptance of itself and cannot accept those things different from it.

It has the form of Godly tolerance (charity), but it is without the power thereof.

[Traveler]

Would someone explain to me how it is that a tolerant person can tolerate intolerance?

The Traveler

[Misshalfway]

Would someone explain to me how it is that a tolerant person can tolerate intolerance?

The Traveler

you stand and even fight for correct principles ......... but we are gentle with people and their weakness.

Not that this loving balance generally happens with people.....

[Traveler]

you stand and even fight for correct principles ......... but we are gentle with people and their weakness.

Not that this loving balance generally happens with people.....

I am still confused. A tolerant person is intollerant when it comes to principles but tolerant of people's weaknesses? How does a tollerant person tollorate intolerant people?

The Traveler

[ferretrunner]

I think you miss the point of LM's post, ferretrunner. The point (I think) he was making is that the rhetoric about being tolerant of others (when what is really meant is "acceptance and validation of others' beliefs") is hypocritical; that kind of tolerance is unilateral. It demands acceptance of itself and cannot accept those things different from it.

It has the form of Godly tolerance (charity), but it is without the power thereof.

LOL. Wouldn't be the first time I missed irony. I get used to people hammering me for not necessarily fitting the "role" that I'm a bit sensitive to it. I think being a stay at home mother is a beautiful thing- if it is possible financially for the family and the woman feels that is her calling. Or the man feels it's his. Stay at home dad. I just don't like seeing any person, male or female, being "pushed" into a role they don't want to embrace.

Anyway, diversity is what makes life interesting. Tolerance is not easy- and sometimes may not be appropriate.

[deseretgov]

I am still confused. A tolerant person is intollerant when it comes to principles but tolerant of people's weaknesses? How does a tollerant person tollorate intolerant people?

The Traveler

But if a person is truely tolerant then they must tolerate intolerance. If not they are not truely tolerant.

[Snow]

What I see in this thread is some posters, in essence, saying... I will tolerate other's so long as they do not outside of the particular behaviors that I personally find acceptable - but if someone behaves in a way that I personally do't care for, their behavior should not be tolerated.

[deseretgov]

That to me is the contradiction of tolerance. It gives no room for having an acceptable standard of behaviour. Because to be really tolerant you can't pick and choose what you tolerate.