I Can't Pray?

[pam]

I got this in an email today and while I can't verify that this actually occurred...the point is..it's spot on in my opinion.

After being interviewed by the school administration, the prospective teacher said:

'Let me see if I've got this right.

'You want me to go into that room with all those kids, correct their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse, monitor their dress habits, censor their T-shirt messages, and instill in them a love for learning.

'You want me to check their backpacks for weapons, wage war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, and raise their sense of self esteem and personal pride.

'You want me to teach them patriotism and good citizenship, sportsmanship and fair play, and how to register to vote, balance a checkbook, and apply for a job.

'You want me to check their heads for lice, recognize signs of antisocial behavior, and make sure that they all pass the final exams.

'You also want me to provide them with an equal education regardless of their handicaps, and communicate regularly with their parents in English, Spanish or any other language, by letter, telephone, newsletter, and report card.

'You want me to do all this with a piece of chalk, a blackboard, a bulletin board, a few books, a big smile, and a starting salary that qualifies me for food stamps.

'You want me to do all this and then you tell me. . . I CAN'T PRAY?

[Misshalfway]

Wow Pam. That needs to be on a billboard.

[mlbrowninwa]

I would bet that it is true and very sad. I though recently about the language thing when my daughter and son brought in all their paper work from the first day of school. One of the printed syllabus was printed in English, Spanish, Russian, and I believe Chinese. I found that to be a bit of overkill. I don't see how teachers do it. They are great people.

[Dr T]

That was good. Thanks Pammy :)

[Traveler]

I have long been confused with objections to teaching “religion” in public schools. I do not see any way possible to educate a student in history without teaching religion.

The Traveler

[the_last_gunslinger]

I have long been confused with objections to teaching “religion” in public schools. I do not see any way possible to educate a student in history without teaching religion.

The Traveler

It's not against the rules to teach religion from an academic standpoint, especially in those classes where it is essential. In Social Studies, we were taught about the Gods on Mt. Olympus, and when we covered Medieval History, we talked about Christianity and its influence on the people.

Where the trouble comes in is when the school begins sponsoring a particular religion. For example, it's perfectly fine to teach about the history of Catholicism and their tenets in a World Religions class for academic purpose, but it is not alright to begin each class period by reciting "Hail Mary, Full of Grace."

What it all boils down to is whether or not one particular creed is being presented as fact.

[Dr T]

I wouldn't really want my kid's teachers teaching my children religious things Traveler.

[Jenamarie]

Who says a teacher can't pray? My parents prayed every morning before they went into their classrooms, and every night before bed. I'm sure they also kept a prayer in their hearts during the school day. The only thing they didn't do was include their students in their prayers, which is as it should be. I would not want a Muslim teacher leading my children in prayer towards Allah. Or a Catholic teacher having my student recite the Rosary.

I personally think it would add a whole lot MORE stress to a teacher's job if she were expected to be a religous instructor (beyond the Social Studies aspect of it) to a multi-religious class.

[the_last_gunslinger]

Who says a teacher can't pray? My parents prayed every morning before they went into their classrooms, and every night before bed. I'm sure they also kept a prayer in their hearts during the school day. The only thing they didn't do was include their students in their prayers, which is as it should be. I would not want a Muslim teacher leading my children in prayer towards Allah. Or a Catholic teacher having my student recite the Rosary.

I personally think it would add a whole lot MORE stress to a teacher's job if she were expected to be a religous instructor (beyond the Social Studies aspect of it) to a multi-religious class.

Yeah, I was a little confused by the "not allowed to pray" thing as well. The school can't regulate whether or not you hold personal prayer, only as long as you are not including the class in the religious moment. Just like there is no rule about students bringing their bibles to school or starting their own Bible Study groups.

And I personally see nothing wrong with this. We shouldn't hold public prayer in schools or teach theology from anything more than a scholarly standpoint.

[Moksha]

I have long been confused with objections to teaching “religion” in public schools. I do not see any way possible to educate a student in history without teaching religion.

The Traveler

Good point. Much historic data was recorded by religious clerics. Besides that, religion has been an important part of all civilizations. Burial evidence indicates that even Neanderthals may have had some religious customs. If so, then it would stand to reason that they too had religious chants or prayers.

.

[Maureen]

''You want me to do all this with... a starting salary that qualifies me for food stamps."

I have no sympathy for teachers here in Edmonton. In 2005 a first year teacher's salary was $48,000, and a teacher with 11 years of teaching received a salary of almost $76,000. And IMO, only about 25% of those teachers are good at their job.

[Traveler]

I wouldn't really want my kid's teachers teaching my children religious things Traveler.

A most interesting point of view - is you point of view because you trust teachers with you kids but you do not trust such teachers with religion? Personally I think much higher of my children. If a teacher cannot be trusted with sensitive spiritual things - there is no way I would trust them with my children to teach anything.

The Traveler

[Dr T]

Good point Traveler. Did you know my wife and I homeschool our children?

[the_last_gunslinger]

A most interesting point of view - is you point of view because you trust teachers with you kids but you do not trust such teachers with religion? Personally I think much higher of my children. If a teacher cannot be trusted with sensitive spiritual things - there is no way I would trust them with my children to teach anything.

The Traveler

So you would have no problem with your children being taught Protestant doctrine? Because if we allowed teachers to teach spiritual matters, it's almost a certainty that their views or the views of the school would be far removed from what you or your children would believe.

[the_last_gunslinger]

I have no sympathy for teachers here in Edmonton. In 2005 a first year teacher's salary was $48,000, and a teacher with 11 years of teaching received a salary of almost $76,000. And IMO, only about 25% of those teachers are good at their job.

Wow, as someone who is going into teaching, I wish I could pull down a salary of that magnitude. Here in Michigan, the starting wage for a teacher is $37,000 with a bachelor's degree and 39,000 with a Masters. I could eventually get up to about 45 grand, but I can't expect more than that.

[Traveler]

So you would have no problem with your children being taught Protestant doctrine? Because if we allowed teachers to teach spiritual matters, it's almost a certainty that their views or the views of the school would be far removed from what you or your children would believe.

I would trust Prison Chaplin to teach my kids. I am well aware that his Protestant views on religion are very much different than mine but I also see this as an advantage. From time to time we will express our differences. Such differences would allows my kids some diversity from a person that respects my beliefs and is well founded in spiritual things.

I do believe that such insights as offered by PC would assist in establishing values I consider more important than doctrine and it would help my kids understand historical issues better.

The Traveler

[jadams_4040]

I got this in an email today and while I can't verify that this actually occurred...the point is..it's spot on in my opinion.

After being interviewed by the school administration, the prospective teacher said:

'Let me see if I've got this right.

'You want me to go into that room with all those kids, correct their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse, monitor their dress habits, censor their T-shirt messages, and instill in them a love for learning.

'You want me to check their backpacks for weapons, wage war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, and raise their sense of self esteem and personal pride.

'You want me to teach them patriotism and good citizenship, sportsmanship and fair play, and how to register to vote, balance a checkbook, and apply for a job.

'You want me to check their heads for lice, recognize signs of antisocial behavior, and make sure that they all pass the final exams.

'You also want me to provide them with an equal education regardless of their handicaps, and communicate regularly with their parents in English, Spanish or any other language, by letter, telephone, newsletter, and report card.

'You want me to do all this with a piece of chalk, a blackboard, a bulletin board, a few books, a big smile, and a starting salary that qualifies me for food stamps.

'You want me to do all this and then you tell me. . . I CAN'T PRAY?

Sometimes in order to overcome the advesaries influences we need to adjust; Silent prayers are answered too.:)

[the_last_gunslinger]

I would trust Prison Chaplin to teach my kids. I am well aware that his Protestant views on religion are very much different than mine but I also see this as an advantage. From time to time we will express our differences. Such differences would allows my kids some diversity from a person that respects my beliefs and is well founded in spiritual things.

I do believe that such insights as offered by PC would assist in establishing values I consider more important than doctrine and it would help my kids understand historical issues better.

The Traveler

Certainly I believe that teaching morals could fall within the jurisdiction of teachers, but they don't have to teach religion in order to do it. It's not like Christianity--or any religion for that matter--has a monopoly on morals and good behavior. You could still have a Christian message without actually teaching the religion, and that would be ideal.

I don't think it would be fair to those of other faiths to subject them to the spiritual thoughts and notions of others; it could cause feelings of inadequacy, discomfort, and for those young enough, it could cause serious spiritual harm, as well as unnecessary family contention. Furthermore, it could be one step closer to a Nationally sponsored system of faith, and there's already enough animosity between denominations as it is.