Adam-ondi-Ahman and Far West Sacred Ground

[Hemidakota]

Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. and John J. Stewart (Author)

Elder Dyer, whom President McKay subsequently ordained an apostle and later set apart as a counselor in the church presidency, offered some interesting after-thoughts on Far West:

"In connection with President McKay's visit at Far West, it is to be noted that while there the President appeared somewhat overwhelmed. The place made a deep impression upon him; so much so that he referred to Far West a number of times in the ensuing days as a place of deep impression.

"The feeling that President McKay had at Far West registered upon me once again, but now with greater impact. The events that transpired there are significant:

(a) The Lord proclaimed Far West a holy and consecrated land unto him, declaring to Joseph Smith that the very ground he stood on there was holy. (b) The Prophet Joseph Smith contended with the devil face to face for some time, upon the occasion of the power of evil menacing one of his children in the Prophet's home just west of the temple site. Lucifer declared that Joseph had no right to be there, that this was his place. Whereupon the Prophet rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord and he departed and did not touch the child again. © The overwhelming feeling that President McKay had when he visited this sacred place.

"The Answer: I have often pondered the holy significance of Far West, and even more so since President McKay's visit. The sacredness of Far West, Missouri, is no doubt due to the understanding that the Prophet Joseph Smith conveyed to the brethren, at these early times, that Adam-ondi-Ahman, the place to which Adam and Eve fled when cast out of the Garden of Eden, is where Adam erected an altar unto God, and offered sacrifices, and that Far West was the spot where Cain killed Abel.

"This information tends to explain why the Lord declared Far West to be a holy consecrated place; and no doubt explains why Satan claimed that place as his own, as it was here that he entered into a covenant with Cain, resulting in the death of Abel, the first of mortal existence [to die] upon this earth. "It would appear that President McKay while there felt the spirit and significance of this holy place." (The Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, p.340)

[Ezequiel]

How interesting.

I had never heard of the story of Lucifer contending with the Prophet Joseph.. what is that all about?

[Traveler]

Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. and John J. Stewart (Author)

Elder Dyer, whom President McKay subsequently ordained an apostle and later set apart as a counselor in the church presidency, offered some interesting after-thoughts on Far West:

"In connection with President McKay's visit at Far West, it is to be noted that while there the President appeared somewhat overwhelmed. The place made a deep impression upon him; so much so that he referred to Far West a number of times in the ensuing days as a place of deep impression.

"The feeling that President McKay had at Far West registered upon me once again, but now with greater impact. The events that transpired there are significant:

(a) The Lord proclaimed Far West a holy and consecrated land unto him, declaring to Joseph Smith that the very ground he stood on there was holy. (b) The Prophet Joseph Smith contended with the devil face to face for some time, upon the occasion of the power of evil menacing one of his children in the Prophet's home just west of the temple site. Lucifer declared that Joseph had no right to be there, that this was his place. Whereupon the Prophet rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord and he departed and did not touch the child again. © The overwhelming feeling that President McKay had when he visited this sacred place.

"The Answer: I have often pondered the holy significance of Far West, and even more so since President McKay's visit. The sacredness of Far West, Missouri, is no doubt due to the understanding that the Prophet Joseph Smith conveyed to the brethren, at these early times, that Adam-ondi-Ahman, the place to which Adam and Eve fled when cast out of the Garden of Eden, is where Adam erected an altar unto God, and offered sacrifices, and that Far West was the spot where Cain killed Abel.

"This information tends to explain why the Lord declared Far West to be a holy consecrated place; and no doubt explains why Satan claimed that place as his own, as it was here that he entered into a covenant with Cain, resulting in the death of Abel, the first of mortal existence [to die] upon this earth. "It would appear that President McKay while there felt the spirit and significance of this holy place." (The Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, p.340)

While visiting Adam-ondi-Ahman a few years ago I noticed many markers in fields and had to go into the fields to check them out. They were survey markers and it appeared to mark individual plots like is seen in real estate development of subdivisions. I also noticed several substations that I recognized as fiber optic junction boxes, which I also check out. Judging from the size of the fiber cables in the junction boxes there appeared to be about what would be expected for a metropolitan area of about 120,000. Standing there and looking around at the rolling hills of farmland I wondered what all this was about.

Having several contacts that work for the church I was unable to find anybody that knew anything.

The Traveler

[flyswatguy]

While visiting Adam-ondi-Ahman a few years ago I noticed many markers in fields and had to go into the fields to check them out. They were survey markers and it appeared to mark individual plots like is seen in real estate development of subdivisions. I also noticed several substations that I recognized as fiber optic junction boxes, which I also check out. Judging from the size of the fiber cables in the junction boxes there appeared to be about what would be expected for a metropolitan area of about 120,000. Standing there and looking around at the rolling hills of farmland I wondered what all this was about.

Having several contacts that work for the church I was unable to find anybody that knew anything.

The Traveler

Thats really weird , obviously somebody has plans to build a small city there .

on a different topic i had a strange experience the other day , i was going to start a new thread but can,t see any button to push for new thread , am i stupid or can only certain people start threads .

anyway , funny thing happened , i was standing in my bedroom brushing my hair , the radio was playing then it stopped , i waited exspecting it to come on again but it never did .

walked over and found the switch on the wall was in the off position , pushed it down and the radio came on again , thats strange nobody was in the room but me .

went outside and told my two daughters got some blank looks , youngest daughter looked uneasy .

told wife who,s active member , must be an angel she proclaimed .

told mother , oh no stay away from that sort of thing ( she,s 82 and doesn,t like scary things )

thought some more and decided there must be some rational explanation , perhaps the switch was stuck half on half off and something made it go up like a natural vibration .

so went home and tried to balance switch in between , found it impossible to balance switch and get power on , so it could not have been stuck halfway , it could only have been on and somebody or something turned it off . this switch is a ordinary household switch and does not have a overload capacity which allows it to trip into off .

so then i started to think why some unseen being turned the radio off .

is it a sign to say , i am here but you can,t see me ,

or , i don,t like the radio turn it off .

or i want you to listen to the spirit and stop playing noisy rock music .

At certain times in my life i have had some strange things happen , this is the main reason i still believe their is a god even after my religious life came burning down around my ears .

sorry for stealing this thread but i wanted to share this and could see no way of starting a new thread

[Traveler]

Thats really weird , obviously somebody has plans to build a small city there .

on a different topic i had a strange experience the other day , i was going to start a new thread but can,t see any button to push for new thread , am i stupid or can only certain people start threads .

anyway , funny thing happened , i was standing in my bedroom brushing my hair , the radio was playing then it stopped , i waited exspecting it to come on again but it never did .

walked over and found the switch on the wall was in the off position , pushed it down and the radio came on again , thats strange nobody was in the room but me .

went outside and told my two daughters got some blank looks , youngest daughter looked uneasy .

told wife who,s active member , must be an angel she proclaimed .

told mother , oh no stay away from that sort of thing ( she,s 82 and doesn,t like scary things )

thought some more and decided there must be some rational explanation , perhaps the switch was stuck half on half off and something made it go up like a natural vibration .

so went home and tried to balance switch in between , found it impossible to balance switch and get power on , so it could not have been stuck halfway , it could only have been on and somebody or something turned it off . this switch is a ordinary household switch and does not have a overload capacity which allows it to trip into off .

so then i started to think why some unseen being turned the radio off .

is it a sign to say , i am here but you can,t see me ,

or , i don,t like the radio turn it off .

or i want you to listen to the spirit and stop playing noisy rock music .

At certain times in my life i have had some strange things happen , this is the main reason i still believe their is a god even after my religious life came burning down around my ears .

sorry for stealing this thread but i wanted to share this and could see no way of starting a new thread

You cannot start a new thread while you are inside a thread - try going back to the thread lists by topic. You should see the button there.

Also as an engineer and a scientist I would suggest not coming to any conclusion that cannot be justified and demonstrated. If you can figure out what happened you can say - oh this is what happened. Guessing seldom works. Kind of like guessing the answer to math problems - that method will result in many more wrong answers than correct answers and you will never know which answer is right from wrong as long as you are guessing.

Good luck starting a new thread

The Traveler

[spect]

I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas as to when this grand event will take place?

What are your thoughts?

[Traveler]

I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas as to when this grand event will take place?

What are your thoughts?

Just prior to the second coming of Jesus.

The Traveler

[Elphaba]

The way your post is formatted it's difficult to tell who said what. I found a PDF version of it here if anyone is interested.

(b) The Prophet Joseph Smith contended with the devil face to face for some time, upon the occasion of the power of evil menacing one of his children in the Prophet's home just west of the temple site. Lucifer declared that Joseph had no right to be there, that this was his place. Whereupon the Prophet rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord and he departed and did not touch the child again.

In all of my many readings about the Church's history, I have never once seen a reference to Joseph contending with Lucifer at Far West.

Additionally I just spent the last two hours searching my references, as well as the internet, for this account and found nothing except the one hit I linked above, which is obviously not official.

Would you please let us know exactly where the account of Lucifer challenging Joseph is from?

[Moksha]

How interesting.

I had never heard of the story of Lucifer contending with the Prophet Joseph.. what is that all about?

Good question. Due to its relative proximity in the Midwest, it makes you wonder if Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox may have lent a hand as well. Maybe that is being pessimistic, but this does seem the stuff of legend.

[deseretgov]

That's cool. Learn something new every day. About the fiber optic cable box stuff. If you look on the website about the temples you'll read that ground was dedicated for one in Adam-ondi-Ahman. You'll also read that there were plans to build a city of zion there named the City of Seth.

[Misshalfway]

I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas as to when this grand event will take place?

What are your thoughts?

Why? Are you trying to hire a caterer?

[flyswatguy]

You cannot start a new thread while you are inside a thread - try going back to the thread lists by topic. You should see the button there.

Also as an engineer and a scientist I would suggest not coming to any conclusion that cannot be justified and demonstrated. If you can figure out what happened you can say - oh this is what happened. Guessing seldom works. Kind of like guessing the answer to math problems - that method will result in many more wrong answers than correct answers and you will never know which answer is right from wrong as long as you are guessing.

Good luck starting a new thread

The Traveler

I am also a mechanic , thats the problem , there is no logical reason why the switch would move to the off position , will look for the new thread button , thanx for the tip .

[flyswatguy]

You cannot start a new thread while you are inside a thread - try going back to the thread lists by topic. You should see the button there.

Also as an engineer and a scientist I would suggest not coming to any conclusion that cannot be justified and demonstrated. If you can figure out what happened you can say - oh this is what happened. Guessing seldom works. Kind of like guessing the answer to math problems - that method will result in many more wrong answers than correct answers and you will never know which answer is right from wrong as long as you are guessing.

Good luck starting a new thread

The Traveler

I found this button and it says only admins may start new threads , hey wasn,t America founded on the idea of freedom of speech intellect and exspression ect ect . thats why we hate the dirty commies right , how many chat sites would their be where access was restricted to the few .

oh the land of the FREE and the brave has lost its way entirley

[sixpacktr]

Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. and John J. Stewart (Author)

Elder Dyer, whom President McKay subsequently ordained an apostle and later set apart as a counselor in the church presidency, offered some interesting after-thoughts on Far West:

"In connection with President McKay's visit at Far West, it is to be noted that while there the President appeared somewhat overwhelmed. The place made a deep impression upon him; so much so that he referred to Far West a number of times in the ensuing days as a place of deep impression.

"The feeling that President McKay had at Far West registered upon me once again, but now with greater impact. The events that transpired there are significant:

(a) The Lord proclaimed Far West a holy and consecrated land unto him, declaring to Joseph Smith that the very ground he stood on there was holy. (b) The Prophet Joseph Smith contended with the devil face to face for some time, upon the occasion of the power of evil menacing one of his children in the Prophet's home just west of the temple site. Lucifer declared that Joseph had no right to be there, that this was his place. Whereupon the Prophet rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord and he departed and did not touch the child again. © The overwhelming feeling that President McKay had when he visited this sacred place.

"The Answer: I have often pondered the holy significance of Far West, and even more so since President McKay's visit. The sacredness of Far West, Missouri, is no doubt due to the understanding that the Prophet Joseph Smith conveyed to the brethren, at these early times, that Adam-ondi-Ahman, the place to which Adam and Eve fled when cast out of the Garden of Eden, is where Adam erected an altar unto God, and offered sacrifices, and that Far West was the spot where Cain killed Abel.

"This information tends to explain why the Lord declared Far West to be a holy consecrated place; and no doubt explains why Satan claimed that place as his own, as it was here that he entered into a covenant with Cain, resulting in the death of Abel, the first of mortal existence [to die] upon this earth. "It would appear that President McKay while there felt the spirit and significance of this holy place." (The Life of Joseph Fielding Smith, p.340)

Thanks for the quote Hemi. I remember as a youth hearing of Joseph's encounter with Satan at the spot where Cain killed Abel. Joseph rebuked him and told him to leave and Satan left weeping and wailing because of its significance to him. I also remember a story of one of the early brethren with an encounter with Cain, while riding a horse somewhere in Missouri. My folks had lots of church books that I would read when I lived there, so I can't cite references, unfortunately, since I don't have access to them now, but I clearly remember these stories.

We shouldn't be surprised at them. And Joseph had at least one other encounter with Satan not too far from where I live now...

[flyswatguy]

Thanks for the quote Hemi. I remember as a youth hearing of Joseph's encounter with Satan at the spot where Cain killed Abel. Joseph rebuked him and told him to leave and Satan left weeping and wailing because of its significance to him. I also remember a story of one of the early brethren with an encounter with Cain, while riding a horse somewhere in Missouri. My folks had lots of church books that I would read when I lived there, so I can't cite references, unfortunately, since I don't have access to them now, but I clearly remember these stories.

We shouldn't be surprised at them. And Joseph had at least one other encounter with Satan not too far from where I live now...

I would be surprised if satan could weep as weeping shows emotional sorrow , something demons are not capable of feeling .

If you knew anything about demons you would know that the only emotion they are capable of is extreme hate

.

in times when all good departs and the devils hour has come , perhaps in times of war or other such moments you will find continual murder hate and revenge , their is no charity , no sorrow , no guilt , no wish for anything good, no love for children .

not all wars are fought like this but only wars where the devils spirit has taken over .

such wars are found to be quite prominent in the book of mormon .

in moari wars between various tribes women would be abused , men enslaved or killed , little children beaten to soften up in preparation to be eaten .

Theres nothing romantic or mystical about the real nature of evil .

when i joined the church as a 23 year old i fasted and prayed for three days in the hope of having some kind of spiritual experience at my baptism .

when nothing happened i was somewhat disapointed .

A few weeks later however i was lying in bed quietly reading before going to sleep , it was a peacefull night , nothing out of the odinary was happening ,

I looked up from my book and found the face of a young man staring at me , His hair was black and matted , unkept and his face had a look of anger , there was no body , just the head , i was wide awake and this was not a dream .

As i looked upon him i felt extreme fear , his face drew back from me into the corner where the ceiling meets the walls , the face grew larger and larger as it went back , along with growing larger the expression of hate and torment grew stronger and stronger until it was a twisted specter of total hate and anguish .

this all happened in a few split seconds and i went from calmly reading my book to being greatly afraid . for some time i was afraid to sleep alone in my room and would not stay there unless my brother who shared the room with me was home .

At night i would gently hum the church hymns to myself to gain assurance .

one night i was dreaming a vivid dream and could hear the sound of this beautifull chior singing , i was greatly enjoying the sounds thereof when suddenly there was a loud voice screaming shut up , the singing stopped and all was quiet .

On another night i found myself being taken out of my body and traveling through the air , i met a lady with dark curly hair , a flat nose and children all around her , a few weeks later i met my wife who fits this exact description , we later married and had five children , now we have 7 grandchildren as well .

these things all happened within the first few months of my baptism , then it stopped and through 20 years of full activity in the church i never saw or heard a darn thing until recently , my life has again begun to be full of dreams and strange things happening , such as the radio mysteriously turning itself off.

[Justice]

We shouldn't be surprised at them. And Joseph had at least one other encounter with Satan not too far from where I live now...

Do you live near Palmyra?

:)

[Justice]

I would be surprised if satan could weep as weeping shows emotional sorrow , something demons are not capable of feeling .

If you knew anything about demons you would know that the only emotion they are capable of is extreme hate

Weeping and wailing doesn't have to be for godly sorrow. People who are prideful and don't get what they want weep and wail also... like a temper tantrum.

[sixpacktr]

Do you live near Palmyra?

:)

Buffalo

[sixpacktr]

I would be surprised if satan could weep as weeping shows emotional sorrow , something demons are not capable of feeling .

If you knew anything about demons you would know that the only emotion they are capable of is extreme hate

22 And it came to pass that Satan cried with a loud voice, with weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and he departed hence, even from the presence of Moses, that he beheld him not.

(Moses 1:22)

I read your post, and it was amazing to say the least. But as you can see, Satan did the same with Moses. Justice I think hit the nail on the head: it was more of a rant and rave temper tantrum rather than a sign of sorrow...

[Elphaba]

There are many accounts of Joseph having run-ins with evil Spirits, and even the Devil himself...

here is one:

Meridian Magazine:: Church History: The Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt — Revised and Enhanced Edition

- that was after 5 min of googling. I actually do remember reading something about one of Joseph's children over there, I'll post it if I can find it. It is something similar to the above.

I am asking about this specific claim, no other:

(b) The Prophet Joseph Smith contended with the devil face to face for some time, upon the occasion of the power of evil menacing one of his children in the Prophet's home just west of the temple site. Lucifer declared that Joseph had no right to be there, that this was his place. Whereupon the Prophet rebuked Satan in the name of the Lord and he departed and did not touch the child again.

Elphaba

[flyswatguy]

yes , extreme anger and hate is a better description than weeping and wailing .

they hate hymns because hymns give people hope and feelings of sanctity , feelings they can never have themselves as these feelings only come with living correct principles .

there are intelligent beings all around us both evil and good .

correct principles allow for intelligence to prosper succeed and to build better and better comunities .

Intelligence without principles becomes dark confused hopeless .

its really the same as the world we now live in . the city survives only because of the good intelligence in it .

take those people away and you have anarchy murder and mayhem .

when anarchy rules you may know that the end is near , evil can only breed on the back of good , much like a virus , it needs a host .

evil in itself cannot build a kingdom , the very nature of what it is means constant chaos .

understanding the principles that govern what becomes evil and what becomes good leaves a brightly illumned path if your interested in building an eternal kingdom that lasts .

Thats another good point , your about the business of building your own eternal kingdom by taking upon yourself correct principles , your going to be living in a world of your own creation , this is going to be a perfect judgement . you may find yourself in a valley of abundant life or in a dreary plain . whatever it is its a place of your own creation , everything you are , everything you have done , more information has been downloading itself into your subconscious than you could ever realize.

when you die you will enter into the world of your own subconcious which world is the eternal part of you . there you will find a perfect judgement of who and what you have been , you will also be able to communicate with other beings who are on the same wave length as you .

the atonement may allow for deliverance from difficult circumstances from which you yourself have not power to remove yourself .

you will look back on your life and learn from every moment , even the saddest darkest moments will teach you and the pain will deepen your humilty .

this subconscious world is with you all the time , it was never born and does not die . you may find your self re attaching to your eternal world which has many more experiences in it than your are now capable of understanding .

when the spirit speaks to you it is speaking from your subconcious eternal world . from an alternate dimension in which you constantly co exist . the electrons in your body are constantly jumping in and out of several dimensions , information is moving in and out like the tides of the sea . time does not exist in the subconscious world of which you and i are both a part , you may dream things which are of the future or the past . there is a mechanical process at work and its very very real , you do not have to die to begin to discover your own eternal world , its possible to travel into the realms of your own eternal soul and realize that you are a being of purpose and meaning .

Because of the materialism covering the earth the ability to do these things has been greatly lessened .

atheism traps the soul into the three dimensional world of pain suffering and hoplesness , the heavens become dark and heavy , no other possibility can exstend itself other than the possibility of total anialation . therfor those that reject faith on the grounds that it is without scientifc reality soon find themselves treading in heavy water and at certain points drowning in a sea of despair .

people with a heavy negative view of God may also find themselves living in a world of guilt and anxiety , no amount of trying seem to relieve the distress as God has become a legalistic monster .

It really comes down to seeing your own soul in a positive and happy light .

these are just my own personal beliefs and do not represent anything elses other than that .

hopefully somebody out there will gain something from it and writing all this will not have been a complete waste of my time ....

[Elphaba]

atheism traps the soul into the three dimensional world of pain suffering and hoplesness , the heavens become dark and heavy , no other possibility can exstend itself other than the possibility of total anialation .

Gotta love that drama.

Atheists are no more, and no less, hopeless than theists. They are also no more, and no less, happy than theists.

I've known a few theists in my life who exude despar. Their life experiences have destroyed any real joy they might have otherwise felt.

I've also known atheists who are full of life and love, and a joy to be around. Sometimes I'm even one of them. More often I'm not.

But annihilation is certainly not part of my life, or of the atheist friends I've made.

Elphaba

Edited October 26, 2009 by Elphaba
corrected a grammar error

[flyswatguy]

Gotta love that drama.

Atheists are no more, and no less, hopeless than theists. They are also no more, and no less, happy than theists.

I've known a few theists in my life who exude despar. Their life experiences have destroyed any real joy they might have otherwise felt.

I've also known atheists who are full of life and love, and a joy to be around. Sometimes I'm even one of them. More often I'm not.

But annihilation is certainly not part of my life, or of the atheist friends I've made.

Elphaba

If you look at how i wrote what i did i pointed out that believers can have just as many problems as people who are non believers .

i Have passed through long periods of being an atheist myself , in many ways i found myself becoming a better person less judgemental of others and far more accepting of people with problems ,in other ways i felt lost and empty as i struggled with living in a world that had no eternal meaning .

moraly atheists can be as good and in many cases better than people who proffess strong beliefs .

thanx for teaching me how to spell annihilation , quite a big word .....:)

[Elphaba]

If you look at how i wrote what i did i pointed out that believers can have just as many problems as people who are non believers .

i Have passed through long periods of being an atheist myself , in many ways i found myself becoming a better person less judgemental of others and far more accepting of people with problems ,in other ways i felt lost and empty as i struggled with living in a world that had no eternal meaning .

moraly atheists can be as good and in many cases better than people who proffess strong beliefs .

thanx for teaching me how to spell annihilation , quite a big word .....:)

That was a very nice post. Thank you.

Elphaba

[laronius]

On 10/21/2009 at 9:21 PM, Traveler said:

While visiting Adam-ondi-Ahman a few years ago I noticed many markers in fields and had to go into the fields to check them out. They were survey markers and it appeared to mark individual plots like is seen in real estate development of subdivisions. I also noticed several substations that I recognized as fiber optic junction boxes, which I also check out. Judging from the size of the fiber cables in the junction boxes there appeared to be about what would be expected for a metropolitan area of about 120,000. Standing there and looking around at the rolling hills of farmland I wondered what all this was about.

 

Having several contacts that work for the church I was unable to find anybody that knew anything.

The Traveler

I didn't think my comment was worthy of a whole new thread so I am resurrecting a really really old one as Traveler's remark relates. I have an aunt that lives near Adam-ondi-Ahman (her husband is from Missouri). It's a pretty rural area. In the past it wasn't out of the ordinary for members to move there trying to be close to where important things are prophesied to occur only to find out there aren't any jobs and winters aren't fun and so many end up leaving. Lately though it seems they are going through a real growth spurt with 90 members of the Church moving to the area in just the last 4 months alone. They will be dividing their ward I think this Sunday. Many are having to buy land and build a house as there aren't enough existing ones to meet demand. I imagine some of it is in reaction to the increased talk about the Second Coming but it does seem like a lot of people for so rural an area. Maybe they are having a Close Encounters experience. 🤔😀