Unitarian Minister requests: Stop bashing Mormons

[Dr T]

It is very unChristian to preach from the pulpit and just smash on other religions. I can see preaching against doctrines, but not against other Christian based faiths.

Why? Are Christians not allowed to speak against things that are unbiblical in your book?

[superdad69]

Yes sir or ma'am I am doing so now. I just wanted to get some direct answers in the process from believers.

[pam]

Why? Are Christians not allowed to speak against things that are unbiblical in your book?

Because we believe that people should be allowed to worship how, where and what they may, that goes against one of our articles of faith to stand at the pulpit and bash another religion. Whether we disagree or not it's just not what we are about.

Standing at the pulpit should be talks or lessons in what we believe to be truth..not bashing what we find to be untrue in another religion.

It's about being respectful even with our disagreements in theology.

[pam]

Superdad, these are the main points to what we believe. We call them Articles of Faith.

• We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
• We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
• We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
• We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
• We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
• We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
• We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
• We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
• We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
• We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
• We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
• We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
• We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

[superdad69]

Thank you pam

[Dr T]

But really Pammy, it's not about everything is allowed, all religions are the same and all lead to eternal life with the Father, would you agree?

[pam]

What do you mean it's not about everything is allowed?

[Dr T]

I mean that I doubt that God would say, "Yeah, it's fine go ahead and worship what and who you want, do whatever you want because it's fine-I accept all beliefs." I don't think that is true. And if accepting all people's decision to worship how they choose means that you think that God is fine with it then I heartily disagree. The path is narrow not wide. I know that He decides and not me but that's how I see it.

[talisyn]

If I may insert my $0.02 into this discussion....The path back to God the Father is clear. Naturally as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we believe we have received revelation through prophets old and new about quite frankly the easiest and most complete way to get there. God in His mercy knew that other very good people would not follow this way and he created an eternity where all would live in peace and comfort, according to what they did in this mortal time of testing (well except for the really bad guys and gals).

I agree, the path is narrow. But it is straight and hasn't changed. Only through Christ will we achieve the ultimate paradise. Only through obedience to the principles set forth by God will we make it back to Him. Those of the LDS church tend to not use a pulpit when disagreements come up between different Christian sects. Like Pam said, it's a matter of respect. Respect for free will, one of the greatest gifts God gave us all.

[Misshalfway]

I mean that I doubt that God would say, "Yeah, it's fine go ahead and worship what and who you want, do whatever you want because it's fine-I accept all beliefs." I don't think that is true. And if accepting all people's decision to worship how they choose means that you think that God is fine with it then I heartily disagree. The path is narrow not wide. I know that He decides and not me but that's how I see it.

It is part of God's will to allow people to choose. He won't interfer with that process and neither will we.

We don't bash other faiths in our church. We teach truth and try to help as many as will listen to understand it too. If that means discussing a doctrine or belief that isn't true, then sometimes that may be part of a church discussion. But our church services are never dedicated to the evaluation of another group or church or specific person. We talk about the truths of the gospel. Even that effort is an individual one as each person must evaluate their own lives and repent where its needed. There is no condemnation of people in process and until this world is over, all people are in process.

[prisonchaplain]

That was not very educational. Many religion make prophecies and are not bashed as much as Mormons. I wish I could get a straight answer on this. I have been searching and have found nothing. Of course there are ridiculous things out there but I would like to know directly from one of you why it is that you are bashed? I have been writing my basic concepts of religions now for a few hours and cannot even begin to write about your religion. Any help?

Since I'm from the faith-tradition that is most guilty (at least by quantity) of criticizing the LDS faith, let me offer common reasons:

1. Doctrines are deemed heretical

2. Joseph Smith is deemed not a true prophet of God

3. The accusation in particular of "works salvation"

4. The secrecy (sacredness) of the Temple activities leads to some imaginative speculation (conspiracy theories)

5. Joseph Smith declared that all other churches were wrong (doctrine of the Restoration)

6. There are accusations of "group think" and a level of obedience to church authority that is beyond what most mainstream churches have. Some contend this is cult-like.

7. LDS missionaries evangelize amongst evangelicals.

8. LDS insist they are Christians, and yet all major teachings are add odds with most of Protestant and Catholic Christianity (see the numerous "are Mormons Christians" threads)

Bottom line: For evangelicals it is mostly doctrine (you see similar "attacks" on Jehovah's Witnesses--but that group is barely present on the internet, so doesn't get as much coverage). My guess is that for most non-Christians, the attacks are more political or sociological (people just not trusting tight-knit religious communities in their midst).

[prisonchaplain]

ok what makes you guys different than the typical Christian theology. Like I don't know Pentecostals or Baptists?

Might I recommend to you a book co-written by an evangelical professor and an LDS one: How Wide the Divide: A Mormon and an Evangelical in Conversation, by Blomberg & Robinson? The book is about 200 pages, and convers the major doctrinal disagreements in a polite, but also frank manner. Someone of your obvious interest in religious matters would do well with this work, me thinks. One of the posters here recommended it to me, and I found it very helpful as I was learning my way around here.

[prisonchaplain]

Because we believe that people should be allowed to worship how, where and what they may, that goes against one of our articles of faith to stand at the pulpit and bash another religion. Whether we disagree or not it's just not what we are about.

Standing at the pulpit should be talks or lessons in what we believe to be truth..not bashing what we find to be untrue in another religion.

It's about being respectful even with our disagreements in theology.

Here's some examples...because Pam and the LDS article of faith referenced here are wise, imho.

OK: Adultery is very bad. If it is not repented of it can lead one to punishment.

Not OK: What? You are an adulterer??!!! You're hellbound for sure, bucko!

OK: The LDS doctrine of the restoration is at complete odds with our historic doctrine of the universal church of true believers--that all who come in sincere faith to God will stand equal before God, regardless of denomination.

Not OK: Anyone who believes their church is the restoration of the New Testament order is hades-bound for sure!

Lesson over. Questions?

[superdad69]

Lol none at all. Thank you very much. I think I have what I need. I really appreciate the response. I was really trying to get to the heart of it and now I feel that you all have helped me with that.

[Dr T]

It is part of God's will to allow people to choose. He won't interfer with that process and neither will we.

We don't bash other faiths in our church. We teach truth and try to help as many as will listen to understand it too. If that means discussing a doctrine or belief that isn't true, then sometimes that may be part of a church discussion. But our church services are never dedicated to the evaluation of another group or church or specific person. We talk about the truths of the gospel. Even that effort is an individual one as each person must evaluate their own lives and repent where its needed. There is no condemnation of people in process and until this world is over, all people are in process.

Hi Halfy,

Implied in your post there is a hidden evaluation (not really hidden because it's right here) that something "not right" and in need of repentance. If you can see that and Christian churches are saying the same thing about a particular topic/issue, then where is the problem with it? Is it because it's coming from a Christian? Thanks

[Misshalfway]

Hi Halfy,

Implied in your post there is a hidden evaluation (not really hidden because it's right here) that something "not right" and in need of repentance. If you can see that and Christian churches are saying the same thing about a particular topic/issue, then where is the problem with it? Is it because it's coming from a Christian? Thanks

I don't know exactly what you mean. Of course there is an evaluation. The church is unapologetically clear about its doctrinal differences from the rest of Christianity. I don't think we are saying that other churches don't have the same right to disagree or correct ideas they believe are false.

I think we are taking the "as for me and my house...." sort of position rather than taking it upon ourselves to discredit and defame people and institutions because of their doctrinal differences.

[Dr T]

Thanks 1/2. So the difference is "keeping the evaluation to yourself vs. standing up and saying it is wrong in the publics eye." Is that correct? Where is the line and when is it ok to speak up about it then?

[ttribe]

Thanks 1/2. So the difference is "keeping the evaluation to yourself vs. standing up and saying it is wrong in the publics eye." Is that correct? Where is the line and when is it ok to speak up about it then?

No...the difference is not engaging in cheap polemics to further one's own cause. Surely you can see the difference.

[Dr T]

But it's not about "one's own cause" really but about the cause the really matters and that's God's cause. See the difference and why it is SO important in my mind now?

[ttribe]

But it's not about "one's own cause" really but about the cause the really matters and that's God's cause. See the difference and why it is SO important in my mind now?

Clearly, it's the interpretation of God's cause (unless you think we are unified in the Faith...which would be interesting). Regardless of the wording I chose, however, you didn't address the "cheap polemics" comment I made...are you saying that the "ends justify the means"? Even if it means employing dishonesty and scare tactics?

[Misshalfway]

Thanks 1/2. So the difference is "keeping the evaluation to yourself vs. standing up and saying it is wrong in the publics eye." Is that correct? Where is the line and when is it ok to speak up about it then?

Come on, now Dr. T. We don't need to patronize each other, do we?

I think we all know the difference between evangelizing the word and destroying those whom we can't convert.

[Dr T]

I ignored that part because it's not "cheap" but very significant and that was the important part that I tried to address there. I do not know what you mean about employing dishonest and scare tactics really Ttribe

[ttribe]

I ignored that part because it's not "cheap" but very significant and that was the important part that I tried to address there. I do not know what you mean about employing dishonest and scare tactics really Ttribe

Apparently, you aren't all that familiar with Ed Decker then?

[Dr T]

Come on, now Dr. T. We don't need to patronize each other, do we?

I think we all know the difference between evangelizing the word and destroying those whom we can't convert.

1/2 I did not intented to come off as condescending toward you in any way I was really just trying to see if I was following what you have been saying in this little convo. I apologize to you if you felt I was patronizing. I didn't mean it. It's an important issue that is at the root of this.

[Dr T]

I've heard the name and read one of his books called, "The Slumber of Christianity" but I didn't really like it too much. What about him?