Undergarments

[Vort]

Ritual impurity != moral impurity.

An yes. Very well observed! Some people confuse both.

It is worth noting that the hypocrites so disparaged by Jesus Christ were those who prided themselves on their ritual purity, yet were so morally impure.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness." (Matthew 23:27)

[skippy740]

I don't understand why LDS and Jews wouldn't engage in deep conversations. So many of LDS doctrines and practices reflect the Jewish traditions. I have a Jewish friend from work who has been kind enough to allow me to visit and participate in a Seder dinner. I'm frankly amazed at some of the same doctrines practiced.

Thanks a ton for joining our site, thekabalist, and I really would love to hear your perspective on various topics.

I also wish there was more openness... on BOTH sides. We, as LDS, are a missionary people. Those who profess to be Jewish, do not proselytize.

Also, there is some controversy behind our practice of Baptism for the dead. The Jews believe that they have always been a "hunted" people... and to hear that we are "trying to get people when they're dead" can cause some rifts in understanding of our doctrine.

This was a discussion that I had with an Orthodox Jewish lady I worked with. I did explain our beliefs and our faith to emphasize that 1) we believe in Jesus Christ as our Messiah and 2) that all people should have the opportunity to accept and reject the gospel and earthly ordinances performed on their behalf according to their own heart. Everyone has the choice to accept or reject. Nothing is ever forced or coerced... as a loving God would never require that of His children.

Edited November 19, 2009 by skippy740

[RanMan]

Yes, it is. It works like this: We believe that all Jewish souls pre-exist since Creation. The means through which they come into the world is through the womb of a Jewish woman. Sometimes however these souls end up in non-Jewish bodies and seek conversion. So whereas Judaism is a religion it is also in a way a lineage. We believe that once one converts to Judaism their bloodline becomes 100% Jewish so it's not exactly a racial issue. We are one complicated religion.

Interesting. I think this runs similar to our beliefs, which is that through baptism we are adopted into the family of Israel. I am fascinated with the many similarities that I am seeing from your posts.

:)

[pam]

I think that is why I'm so enjoying these discussions. I see many similarities. Plus the fact that so far we've been able to have a discussion without degrading each other's religions.

[exnonlds]

Hi forum,

Someone on the other forum asked me about Judaism and undergarments. Do religious Jews wear them? Absolutely! I'm wearing one at this moment. :)

The garment you are referring to is called the Tallit Katan or simply "small prayer shawl". It's a white piece of garment that usually someone wears under their shirt.

http://www.jewishbazaar.com/images_products/prayer-wear-tallit-katan-tzitzit-blue-thread-meyuchad-tallit-katan-cotton-arba-confes-mesh-kjakm-4932big.jpg

The garment itself has a kabbalistic concept of surrounding us with the clouds of the glory of the Holy One Blessed be He. It also contains the tzitziyot which are 4 sets of braided fringes that have been commanded upon us in Nm 15:38-39.

Now the white threads represent the commandments of G-d and the blue cord represents king Messiah the son of David.

There are also some who wear entirely white garments. This practice comes from the priestly sect of the Temple and is spoken of for example by Flavius Josephus in connection to the exiled priests. They would never wear anything other than such white garments. I think the Samaritan priesthood still does.

If there's anything else I can help with please say so! :)

b'shalom

Thanks for answering that. It is most interesting.

[Justice]

We believe that all Jewish souls pre-exist since Creation.

I find that interesting also. :)

[Giant_Son]

I don't understand why LDS and Jews wouldn't engage in deep conversations. So many of LDS doctrines and practices reflect the Jewish traditions. I have a Jewish friend from work who has been kind enough to allow me to visit and participate in a Seder dinner. I'm frankly amazed at some of the same doctrines practiced.

Thanks a ton for joining our site, thekabalist, and I really would love to hear your perspective on various topics.

It's funny. My best friend in my medical school class is an Orthodox Jew. We get along really well and he invites me over for Shabbat Dinner every now and then, which I love doing, and I've even joined him for Friday night services at temple. He's said to me that Mormons and Jews are the same, except for "all that Jesus stuff" as he likes to say. What a great guy, my Jewish friend is.

It's interesting that so many Christians damn so many to Hell and my Orthodox friend is such a better person than so many of my Christian friends of my age. (I'm < 30 y/o). The Christian understanding that so many are going to Hell is such a confusing and off-putting doctrine.

[Maxgreen1]

Yes, it is. It works like this: We believe that all Jewish souls pre-exist since Creation. The means through which they come into the world is through the womb of a Jewish woman. Sometimes however these souls end up in non-Jewish bodies and seek conversion. So whereas Judaism is a religion it is also in a way a lineage. We believe that once one converts to Judaism their bloodline becomes 100% Jewish so it's not exactly a racial issue. We are one complicated religion.

It is similar to the concept of being adopted into one of the 12 tribes of Israel in the LDS faith. I find that very interesting.

[drome]

It is possible that when King David looked upon BathShebah she was in the process of a ceremonial cleansing, leaving the state of טמא (ritual impurity), FYI.

[Maya]

I think that is why I'm so enjoying these discussions. I see many similarities. Plus the fact that so far we've been able to have a discussion without degrading each other's religions.

Agree or rather we both are able to forgive the other because of knowing the other dont know: is ignorent, and that is not a sin. So we ... I am sure we ask things that actually may be hurtful, but because of ignorance are forgivable.

I think the reason why there has not been so much discusition between Jews and LDS is that we both are very stubborn in our beliefs adn taht theya re a bit afraid of our proselyting. Jews are afraid we will convert them, even doing secret proselyting like all "Cristians" do all the time.

I think Jews are little by litte seenig the difference beetween LDS and "Christians" ... that we respect their wishes...

[Casslan]

We believe that once one converts to Judaism their bloodline becomes 100% Jewish so it's not exactly a racial issue.

Then thats why there appears to be no Jewish DNA in the native Americans!

The natives converted into the religion of the Nephites and became followers of the One True God and as a result of their conversion, were adopted into the House of Israel and by that adoption their bloodline became 100% of the lineage of Israel. DNA doesnt come into it since they are of the bloodline by adoption.

[marts1]

The Nephites originate literaly from the tribe of Joseph.

[Guest mysticmorini]

The Nephites originate literaly from the tribe of Joseph.

i'm i correct that most jews trace their lineage to non joseph tribes?

[marts1]

A Jew could be referred to as someone born in Jerusalem or someone born through the lineage of Judah. I would say that mostly we regard Jewish people as coming from the line of Judah.

Edited March 3, 2010 by marts1

[Just_A_Guy]

Judah, and Benjamin (which pretty much stayed with Judah after the northern ten tribes rebelled against Rehoboam).

I think TheKabalist has mentioned in the past that some priestly bloodlines continue to this day, which means there also must be some of Levi among the people we currently call "Jews".

[Dravin]

Judah, and Benjamin (which pretty much stayed with Judah after the northern ten tribes rebelled against Rehoboam).

I think TheKabalist has mentioned in the past that some priestly bloodlines continue to this day, which means there also must be some of Levi among the people we currently call "Jews".

Which makes sense because, unless I'm misremembering my OT, the Levities were spread out amongst the tribes (geographically). Which makes sense.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Dravin

[marts1]

In the church we learn that descendants of Aaron have legal right to the office of a bishop. I forget what tribe he is from.

[volgadon]

Levi.

[volgadon]

It is worth noting that the hypocrites so disparaged by Jesus Christ were those who prided themselves on their ritual purity, yet were so morally impure.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness." (Matthew 23:27)

it is also worth noting that the sages after the fall of the 2nd temple stressed being both ritually AND morally pure. The behaviour of the majority prior to the destruction of the temple was decried, was considered as having caused said destruction.

[volgadon]

The high priest usually wore very ornate layers of garments, different colours, and a breastplate with 12 stones, but upon entering the Holy of Holies, wore only white robes.