Global warming – conspiracies and other government programs

[Traveler]

We are now considering the possibility that the government and politics have framed the information that has defined “global warming”. If one is to research how scientific research is funded we realize that government has a great deal of leverage by just the fact that research funding comes from the government. We have known from the days of tobacco advertising that incentive for profit in fraud; alone will taint research. Many are starting to compare global warming to Watergate.

But this iceberg tip has much more than global warming beneath the water level. This means that the war in Iraq, AIDS, N1H1, Sars, economic failures, corporate takeovers, shortfalls in Social Security and other entitlement programs all could be part of a conspiracy that have manipulated data that we have all expected but could not prove. I think it most interesting that for 20 years, Peter Duesburg and other world leading virologist have been saying we will never solve the AIDS virus because we have made it political for reasons of enormous profits and payoffs and gotten it all wrong starting with research funding and the CDC. For example Peter points out that AIDS in Africa has symptoms unlike anywhere else in the world but much like the symptoms of starving (which has been common in Africa for hundreds of years) plus if a clinic diagnoses a person that died as starving to death the clinic will get $5 from world health organizations, but with the same symptoms if they say they died of AIDS they will get $500 from world health organizations. If you ran an underfunded clinic for people of poverty in a third world nation – what would you do?

The Traveler

[Guest]

For example Peter points out that AIDS in Africa has symptoms unlike anywhere else in the world but much like the symptoms of starving (which has been common in Africa for hundreds of years) plus if a clinic diagnoses a person that died as starving to death the clinic will get $5 from world health organizations, but with the same symptoms if they say they died of AIDS they will get $500 from world health organizations. If you ran an underfunded clinic for people of poverty in a third world nation – what would you do?

Ah man, Traveler! Okay, I completely understand what you are trying to say. But, I am not so willing to paint everything with this broad a brush. I still have faith in humanity so much so that I am willing to trust. With wariness, that is for sure.

This is exactly like a discussion a while back about how some people do not stop for somebody with car trouble on the highway anymore. They have such a low regard for humanity that they think everybody is out to get them! I say get out of your car and help - but be prepared to defend yourself if necessary!

Edited December 4, 2009 by anatess

[Traveler]

Ah man, Traveler! Okay, I completely understand what you are trying to say. But, I am not so willing to paint everything with this broad a brush. I still have faith in humanity so much so that I am willing to trust. With wariness, that is for sure.

This is exactly like a discussion a while back about how some people do not stop for somebody with car trouble on the highway anymore. They have such a low regard for humanity that they think everybody is out to get them! I say get out of your car and help - but be prepared to defend yourself if necessary!

You have missed the point - When the process (method) is wrong then the results cannot be trusted.

I learned this many years ago when I was taught to do math. Do not skip steps and expect your answer to be valid. Just because N1H1 (AIDS, economy or anything else) could be a very bad problem does not mean that we "fast track" a solution. The point is that if a step is necessary then it must be done correctly and in the proper order - if it really is not necessary -- ??? -- why consider such steps for anything?

Or as my father use to tell me, "If it is worth doing - it is worth doing right - having to do anything over again because of a short cut the first time is a waste of everybody's time."

The Traveler

[Vort]

I agree with Traveler. If the basis of global warming can be shown to be false or manufactured, how can we possibly believe that it's a real phenomenon? And why would anyone short of an insane person or a megalomaniac want to pass laws based on such a far-reaching false premise?

[ozzy]

Hmmm, well personal experience, based on Idaho being my location now and Oklahoma being my location a while ago, would say that Earth is freezing over.

That aside, I did take a course in Global Climate change last winter semester and the following was taught.

1. The Earth goes through periods of warming up and cooling down. Right now, we are on an upswing. So it isn't a matter of whether or not the earth is heating, but a matter of whether or not we should worry.

2. Carbon Dioxide can play a part. A very very minor part. The whole carbon foot print thing is relative bunk. So much so, that major ice ages have occurred at the same time that CO2 was on an upswing.

3. A more serious threat of CO2 than its role in global warming is ocean acidification. Apparently the ocean absorbs much of the atmospheric CO2 and becomes acidic. If this happens too much, the shells of crustaceans will dissolve and we say good-bye to what we think of as shrimp.

4. A major concern with 'global warming' is the melting of glaciers. We were told in class that if both antarctica and greenland melted, the ocean would rise about 36 inches, not 20 feet.

I am afraid thats all I can remember of the basic principles, perhaps some prompters will help me remember what else they taught.

[Maxel]

I'm not going to believe that global climate change (as described in ozzy's first point) isn't happening. What is all too apparent is that there are conspiring men who are determined to use it (and various other sociopolitical issues) to bring about their own, misguided vision of what the world ought to be like.

[Hemidakota]

So, if I made a change to our winter, back to a early summer condition, then it is called global warming by this group since science cannot explained this type of weird phenomenon in San Diego area?

[Moksha]

If you ran an underfunded clinic for people of poverty in a third world nation – what would you do?

The Traveler

In that situation, I would be forced to sap the very bodily essences out of right thinking people where ever freedom flourished, making them susceptible to alien invaders who would further subjugate them with hypno-rays.

And why would anyone short of an insane person or a megalomaniac want to pass laws based on such a far-reaching false premise?

No one! Unless their alien masters used the hypno-ray on them first. The aliens wish to have our Hummers for their very own, leaving us with false promises of hot dry days and symptoms of starvation. Shall we fall victim to this sinister plot, being lured into complacency while little Nell lies helplessly tied to the tracks? Wake up and smell the postum America!

[Hemidakota]

Or is it about money vice in saving the planet.

[boyando]

I know that I may be at risk of repeating an old thought that I have previously posted, but here goes. A friend once told me about the time that he was sitting in Sunday School and reading about Christ speaking too those who lived in what we now call America, and almost skipped over,

3 Ne. 21: 18

18 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities.

For our non-Mormon, but still Christian friends, this is a repeat of Micah 5:14. For our Atheist friends, I got nothing.

In both 3rd Nephi and in Micah, the Lord is describing events of the second coming, which both Mormon and non-Mormon Christians believe is coming soon. My friend was intrigued by the thought that Christ would be ripping out trees as part of the second coming.

My friend looked up what a grove was in the Bible Dictionary, and rather than him describing it, told me to go home and look it up my self. Her is what we read,

In Hebrew, called Asherah (of which the plural is Asherim or Asheroth), either a living tree or a tree-like pole, set up as an object of worship, being symbolical of the female or productive principle in nature. Every Phoenician had an asherah near it. The word is often translated “green trees” or “grove.” This “nature worship” became associated with gross immorality, and so the practice of setting up such “groves” or idols was forbidden by Hebrew prophets.

I know that I am reading this definition with conservative glasses, but if the second coming, is coming soon, can anyone show me a group of people who worship trees and mother nature, more than these so called environmentalist?

Please don't get me wrong, I am a firm believer that we are stewards of this planet. We should, and have cleaned up our messes, were ever it is economically possible. But it seems to me, that these e-people want to destroy the possibility of making a living while shaping the environment in there desired image.

And, for those of you who are counting on green jobs, to full fill the gap of lost jobs, caused by these lover's of the earth, maybe you should consider this article from Gorge Will (I know he is a conservative, but you may want to read it any way)

George F. Will - A Quixotic Pursuit: Green Energy Jobs - washingtonpost.com

And boy are they clever. How many caught the little commercial that these environmentalist are going to start airing, with the polar bears falling from the sky, last night on the Glenn Beck show? I want to give a quick warning (same as Beck) this is not easy to look at.

Ad uses falling polar bears to illustrate jet emissions .

I wonder what those kids, who watch this add, and then watch as there parents fly off to earn a living, think of there parents?

Any way, I look forward to some one telling me how I am wrong (I know that there are some who I can count on).

I only have but one answer to this problem. And that is to get to the truth, so we can really start to solve, real problems. Who is with me?

[boyando]

In that situation, I would be forced to sap the very bodily essences out of right thinking people where ever freedom flourished, making them susceptible to alien invaders who would further subjugate them with hypno-rays.

No one! Unless their alien masters used the hypno-ray on them first. The aliens wish to have our Hummers for their very own, leaving us with false promises of hot dry days and symptoms of starvation. Shall we fall victim to this sinister plot, being lured into complacency while little Nell lies helplessly tied to the tracks? Wake up and smell the postum America!

The planet Orc called, just to let you know, they totally get you. Nano, Nano.

[Vort]

In that situation, I would be forced to sap the very bodily essences out of right thinking people where ever freedom flourished, making them susceptible to alien invaders who would further subjugate them with hypno-rays.

No one! Unless their alien masters used the hypno-ray on them first. The aliens wish to have our Hummers for their very own, leaving us with false promises of hot dry days and symptoms of starvation. Shall we fall victim to this sinister plot, being lured into complacency while little Nell lies helplessly tied to the tracks? Wake up and smell the postum America!

Once again, your humor escapes me, Moksha. It seems you are mocking those who question global warming because of the recent revelation of overt data tampering. But why you would mock such people, or what humor there lies in mocking them, I can't tell.

I concede that I may be totally misreading you and thus missing your cleverness. Can you explain it to me?

[Maxel]

boyando-

I came to the same conclusion (about rabid environmentalists being a major factor behind the economic and political turmoil of the last days) a while ago, too. Just look at the Copehnhagen meeting. If any agreement is arrived at, there will be no way to enforce it except the erection of some sort of international committee. With the precedent that following the agreement will be vital to the continuance of our planet, I cannot see any violation being taken lightly.

It's also not a secret that cap-and-trade policies will seriously hinder our already fragile economy, effectively leading to the weakening of our nation's ability to stand independent. I cannot see a realistic future that includes international constraints on CO2 emission that doesn't lead to some sort of global governance and global police force. Once that is in place, what's the next international "crisis" (also backed by spurious science) that will require immediate action? The negative effect of religion on children and humanity? Man's inability to act humanely to his fellow man and, therefore, the requirement of an all-powerful, beneficial State to intercede?

So, I'm with you boyando.

[Maxel]

Or is it about money vice in saving the planet.

*Puts on his crazy hat*

Hemidakota... The creation of a totalitarian state is a necessary evil in saving humanity from itself. There is no God, so we humans have to take action on our own behalf. A technocratic or socialistic society is the only way to stabilize the turbulent happenings of this miserable world- it is only by giving power to those who have only our best interests in mind (such as Barack Obama, Al Gore, Harry Reid, or Hillary Clinton) power to lead the masses to a better future and weed out the inherent imperfections of humanity.

I am Progressive, hear me roar.

*Takes off his crazy hat*

[Alice_Margatroid]

Global Warming has been a complete fraud from the beginning. Anyone can look at the Club of Rome admitting this in the book The First Global Revolution in which they state: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill ... All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself." The entire point of pushing the agenda is to head up the deindustrialization of the 1st world and the acceptance of depopulation as the only way to save the planet. Anyone ever heard of the Georgia Guidestones? Maurice Strong, the U.N.'s main man on the environmentalism front has said this himself time and time again. Along with that, as Maxel said, the move towards Global Governance is a fact. It has been claimed to be the only way to enforce these policies to "save the planet" by Al Gore himself. Ban Ki Moon, the UN Secretary General, has said this as well. A New World Order has been on the books for the ruling elite of this planet for decades.

[Peace_B_Un_2U]

:(Well, after surviving a semester at uni on the subject I am convinced it is all a con. Please, can someone explain why billions of dollars of tax payer's money has to be donated to Copenhagen to "save the planet"? And while you are at it, explain just how?

For real? Are they going to stick all those dollar bills together and make a gigantic umbrella for the earth?

Oh please, please, please explain how our hard earned money is going to make any difference - let me not get started on the what! But I will mention briefly - scientists who deny global warming are ignored and their funding cut! The governments fund those who cry panic - "let's save the planet!" Yeah, like we can make a flower bloom so therefore, we can change the weather! Anyone tried that lately? (Without lots of prayer?)

Just a point in case - how many of our politicians are making many trips to and from these meetings - using up millions of dollars not to mention the fuels they burn flying. Have they given up their big energy consuming homes and cars or lifestyles? No, and why not you may ask? Because even if it were based on facts, there is no way they would ever consider doing without.

Honestly, the Lord warns us about conspiring men - how dumb do these politicians think we are?

[Palerider]

I think Al Gore has a new member for his Global Warming Team....He needs to sign up Osama Bin Laden, they botht think Global Warming is the United States created it. I think they could work well together. They both deserve each other, a couple of crazies....:)

[jadams_4040]

Hmmm, well personal experience, based on Idaho being my location now and Oklahoma being my location a while ago, would say that Earth is freezing over.

That aside, I did take a course in Global Climate change last winter semester and the following was taught.

1. The Earth goes through periods of warming up and cooling down. Right now, we are on an upswing. So it isn't a matter of whether or not the earth is heating, but a matter of whether or not we should worry.

2. Carbon Dioxide can play a part. A very very minor part. The whole carbon foot print thing is relative bunk. So much so, that major ice ages have occurred at the same time that CO2 was on an upswing.

3. A more serious threat of CO2 than its role in global warming is ocean acidification. Apparently the ocean absorbs much of the atmospheric CO2 and becomes acidic. If this happens too much, the shells of crustaceans will dissolve and we say good-bye to what we think of as shrimp.

4. A major concern with 'global warming' is the melting of glaciers. We were told in class that if both antarctica and greenland melted, the ocean would rise about 36 inches, not 20 feet.

I am afraid thats all I can remember of the basic principles, perhaps some prompters will help me remember what else they taught.

So you beleive the millions of tons of poison put into our air every year is not hurting anything?

[bytebear]

So you beleive the millions of tons of poison put into our air every year is not hurting anything?

Carbon Dioxide is not poison.

[boyando]

Carbon Dioxide is not poison.

Its what plants breath, just as we need oxygen.