bully at church

[bonanzafan]

i was just called to be on the fhe committee for my singles ward. the chairman of the committee seems to have it out for me. he murmured when he saw me enter the room for a committee meeting, and again when i was introduced by the attending bishopric member. he shot down my idea for an activity right away...no one else volunteered anything. afterward, personally, i asked him why he did that. he said, outright, that it was dumb. there is no reasoning with him. any other conversation with him, even casual small talk, provokes him t to be condescending and contrary. i don't want to be on the committee anymore. i have such a hard time being around people like this. it makes going to church the most difficult and unpleasant part of my week.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Couple things -- first off, check to see if you aren't personalizing what he's saying too much. Do you tend to think people are sort of out to put you down in a meeting or in life in general? If you go in with that belief, you'll literally see things that confirm it -- and misinterpret actions as if they are all about you. You will know yourself whether this is the case -- I'm just throwing this out as a suggestion as I've seen it happen before..

One thing that concerns me is his "I thought your ideas were dumb" comment. If he said it like that, then I think he's got a problem with tact.

He may even be suffering from arrogance. He sounds like that if you can't talk to him. I personally have a lot of trouble with arrogant people. They are often right about things, but completely ignore how they make others feel, concerned only about getting the job done.

You might consider taking this up with the Bishopric member over this committee, him know your feelings, and get some coaching from him on how to proceed. Do this before you quit or stop showing up.

[pam]

There are many that have preconceived ideas about how things are supposed to be done and can't see the light for the blinders.

I agree with mormonmusic, take it up with the Bishopric before you consider just not showing up. It's not worth it.

[rameumptom]

Discuss your concerns with the bishopric member over the committee. Perhaps it is an issue of miscommunication, or it may be that guidance needs to be given to both the chair and the committee members.

Once you've given it to the bishopric, sit back and let the work proceed however it will. If the person continues to demean you, talk with them privately, sharing your concerns that there be no contention nor malice in the group. Once again, it could just be a miscommunication, etc. Remind the person that you have been called of God to your position, just as much as the chairperson was, and that you want to work well together. Let the person know that it is okay if you don't always see eye to eye, as long as everyone is charitable and kind toward one another.

Then, as chair, allow him to make the final decisions. That is his calling, after all. You may find blessings from learning to be patient and obedient in such a calling. Perhaps it is a test from God, to see if you remain humble and faithful.

[WmLee]

Yep, been there, done that! Talk with a member of the Bishopric. If you are the confrontational kind-a person, ask this brother what he wants from you on this committee. That puts the ball back in his court. If he says he expects nothing from you, then you have something concrete to take to the bishop. Ask him if he requested you on this committee or were you placed there by the Bishop. There is a chance the Bishopric saw something in you they wanted the Ward to experience. You might have a talent or new ideas they want you to share with the ward. Your committee chairperson needs to understand this!

[NeuroTypical]

Folks are giving good opinions, but one thing I'd suggest before you carry any of them out: Were your ideas really dumb? I mean, if this guy was right, then yeah, he's rude and tactless, but you also have a problem that needs fixing. I've seen many dumb ideas advanced by well-meaning people in this church, and I've seen people hurt by them.

If you really did have good ideas and this guy was blocking them, yeah, everyone has great advice.

LM

[Guest]

I want to share one of the profound testimonies given by my friend and a member of my ward last Sunday...

My friend recounted a story that happened years ago where her husband was the home teacher for this one inactive family - a family of 7. After a few visits, the family decided to go back to church. They were very active for a few years. But then, my friend moved out of that ward. A few years went by and my friend's daughter moved back into the old ward. She found out that the family stopped going to church because they have problems with the new home teachers and that they will only go back to church when her father comes back to the ward and home teaches them again!

When my friend was bearing her testimony, she expressed joy that her husband was able to impact this family so much so that they started going to church. But then she expressed sorrow that their testimony was not strong enough to realize that Church is not about the members/home teachers/visting teachers/etc., it is about Jesus Christ. She wished that this family would have gone to church first and foremost because of Jesus Christ and not because of any other reason.

I wish I could have recorded it. It was a great testimony.

[talisyn]

How old is the committee chairperson? I ask because it takes a while for high school to go away for some people It may be that you were called to be on the committee to be an example of mature behavior.

[ADoyle90815]

I want to share one of the profound testimonies given by my friend and a member of my ward last Sunday...

My friend recounted a story that happened years ago where her husband was the home teacher for this one inactive family - a family of 7. After a few visits, the family decided to go back to church. They were very active for a few years. But then, my friend moved out of that ward. A few years went by and my friend's daughter moved back into the old ward. She found out that the family stopped going to church because they have problems with the new home teachers and that they will only go back to church when her father comes back to the ward and home teaches them again!

When my friend was bearing her testimony, she expressed joy that her husband was able to impact this family so much so that they started going to church. But then she expressed sorrow that their testimony was not strong enough to realize that Church is not about the members/home teachers/visting teachers/etc., it is about Jesus Christ. She wished that this family would have gone to church first and foremost because of Jesus Christ and not because of any other reason.

I wish I could have recorded it. It was a great testimony.

That's nice, but that family might want to go to another LDS congregation but because of the way things are set up, they have to move in order to do so. One nice thing about other Christian churches is that if someone is more comfortable in a different building within the denomination, they can attend there to worship Christ.

[bonanzafan]

just to clarify on a few things:

i don't think i said that i'd stop going to church over this. no, my idea wasn't dumb. it was just another idea for a fhe activity (have you ever been to one? they're rarely anything "normal".)...if you re-read my original post, you'll see that the harassment began before that part. i'm thinking that the problem is competing with someone who's been over-validated his whole life because he's an athlete. some of your comments helped me see that.

thanks for all the good advice, folks.

[pam]

problem is competing with someone who's been over-validated his whole life because he's an athlete

You may have just hit the nail on the head right there.

[prisonchaplain]

Question: Is it not an option to switch wards if there is too much contention for someone?

[Vanhin]

You could just put him into a headlock until he says uncle. Show him the true meaning of "laying on of hands". Just a thought.

Vanhin

[Guest]

Question: Is it not an option to switch wards if there is too much contention for someone?

Probably. I'm really not sure about the procedure for this...

But, personally, I believe in wards like I believe in marriage. If the going gets tough, you don't just ditch your husband, you figure out how you can all work it out together with Christ in the center. Isn't that what life is all about? To prepare ourselves to live together in harmony in the Celestial Kingdom?

[Guest mormonmusic]

Question: Is it not an option to switch wards if there is too much contention for someone?

This is an option, but usually the Bishop and the Stake President have to agree to it. I've seen it happen on various types of extreme issues. But there's a stronger culture that you attend the Ward that serves your geographical boundaries.

I've seen people take matters into their own hands, and just start attending a different Ward. However, the Bishop of that Ward can't extend a calling to that person, because they don't have their membership records. So, if you take it upon yourself to attend another Ward, you limit your involvement in the new Ward in terms of callings. You can still feel welcome and accepted as an attendee though.

Also, where possible, I think it's better to learn to get past the contention and live harmoniously with others, and I think that might be a reason why people are encouraged to "bloom where they are planted".

[prisonchaplain]

This matter raises several unrelated questions to the OP..I'll consider starting a new thread. In the mean time, does the biblical counsel to first go to the individual with the concerns, and then, if unresolved, bring two or three as witnesses (mediators?), and finally to bring the matter before the body (bishop, stake, etc.) if such is called, seem advised here. If this person really is bullying and trying to marginalize someone, I would think such behavior should not stand unchallenged.

[Vanhin]

This matter raises several unrelated questions to the OP..I'll consider starting a new thread. In the mean time, does the biblical counsel to first go to the individual with the concerns, and then, if unresolved, bring two or three as witnesses (mediators?), and finally to bring the matter before the body (bishop, stake, etc.) if such is called, seem advised here. If this person really is bullying and trying to marginalize someone, I would think such behavior should not stand unchallenged.

This might be valuable too:

88 And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.

89 And if he or she confess not thou shalt deliver him or her up unto the church, not to the members, but to the elders. And it shall be done in a meeting, and that not before the world.

90 And if thy brother or sister offend many, he or she shall be chastened before many.

91 And if any one offend openly, he or she shall be rebuked openly, that he or she may be ashamed. And if he or she confess not, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of God.

92 If any shall offend in secret, he or she shall be rebuked in secret, that he or she may have opportunity to confess in secret to him or her whom he or she has offended, and to God, that the church may not speak reproachfully of him or her.

93 And thus shall ye conduct in all things. (D&C 42:88-93)

94 And then you put him in a headlock...

Regards,

Vanhin

[Guest mormonmusic]

This matter raises several unrelated questions to the OP..I'll consider starting a new thread. In the mean time, does the biblical counsel to first go to the individual with the concerns, and then, if unresolved, bring two or three as witnesses (mediators?), and finally to bring the matter before the body (bishop, stake, etc.) if such is called, seem advised here. If this person really is bullying and trying to marginalize someone, I would think such behavior should not stand unchallenged.

I see deep wisdom here.

I believe that yes, the conflict should be resolved at the "lowest" level possible -- and that means between the bully and the person being bullied.

However, I also recognize there are times when the individual being hurt feels such a lack of trust due to the behavior of the person doing the offending, they are uncomfortable with this step. For example, the comment "I thought your ideas were dumb" from the bully in this case, would lead me to feel the person was unapproachable. The arrogance potential of the is person also might put the average person off.

I've also witnessed peole raising relationship issues with arrogant people before, and one arrogant person replied: "you're just unable to take honest feedback due to low self-esteem"' or similar. Arrogant people often lack self-awareness, and they have shown a tendency to dismiss relationship and even emotional issues as weakness.

I'm starting to revise my original advice of going straight to the Bishopric member however, based on PC's post. If the person feeling bullied feels comfortable with a one one one conversation, I think this would be better. This is because it's disconcerting to hear about complaints about you from a person above you in authority, without the offended person ever raising the issue with you. It hurts the relationship.

By the way, looking forward to the new thread that seems to forming in your mind PrisonChaplain, as well as the continuation of this one.

Edited December 8, 2009 by mormonmusic

[mightynancy]

I have the hide of a rhino. It has been a blessing! I had an arrogant supervisor at work, and tired of contention, I southern-belle sugar coated him. I cheerily greeted him every morning, asked about his kids' soccer games each Monday, complimented his ties. It was utterly insincere, but it did become fun after a while, like acting perhaps.

Wouldn't you know that I won him over? After about three months of this, he saw me first one morning and cheerily greeted ME, and even said nice things behind my back to the owner. Go figure!

That said, I couldn't have done that if I'd been in a place that let me take his surliness to heart. The thick skin and feelings of success elsewhere in my life let me keep his comments in perspective. We don't always have that. I agree with the advice you've been given, but in the meantime, be sure that you are the person you wish to be, no matter how he is treating you. "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent." ~Eleanor Roosevelt

Edited December 9, 2009 by mightynancy
Blasted homophone! Complement/compliment

[bonanzafan]

sorry, i'm not going to church for money.

[mightynancy]

I know that church isn't work - we're an all-volunteer organization at the ward/branch level. That said, we often must deal with unkind people in our lives, and lessons learned in one place may be applied in another.

I'm sorry my experience wasn't more helpful.

[bonanzafan]

church is still a lot different than work.

[mightynancy]

Sure 'nuff.

I used my Primary teacher experience in my teaching job, and now I use my teacher experience in my Young Women calling. I like to economize.

[Guest mormonmusic]

church is still a lot different than work.

I agree -- I think Church work exposes your TRUE CHARACTER more than work does.

At work, you have your livelihood, financial security, and 8 solid hours a day of your life at risk if you don't cooperate, talk behind people's back, or dont' follow through on commitments. Often there are people lined up to do your job if you don't tow the line.

At Church, you don't have those things -- people are volunteers, and as Jeffrey Holland said, "We can't fire you because we didn't hire you. We can't pay you, and we ought not, we shouldn't and we won't".

Therefore, at Church people can be rude to their leaders, choose not to follow-through on assignments, etcetera, with no real impunity or consequences. As a result, people tend to show their true character in Church callings, moreso than in their work.

There is one lady in our Ward that can't keep a commitment if her life depended on it (it seems). Yet she has a highly responsible managerial position in her paid work. So I know she's capable of keeping commitments -- she must be to have risen to her responsible work position. But she chooses not to serve the Lord the same way she serves her employer. The Lord can see exactly how she behaves when in the Church, when there is nothing external to motivate her to serve.

I wonder at times if He's watching us to see exactly what kinds of stewards we will be when the day comes that ALL THERE IS, is his Kingdom. Who will work at it with passion even though there is no pay?

As the D&C 121 says, he wants a kingdom that flows unto him without compulsory means -- and for me, compulsory means refers to pay, threats of punishment, and immediate consequences for not serving him. And he learns who will flow their service unto him without any external motivation, by observing us in his Church.

That's just my personal interpretation of that scripture, but it hit my like a ton of bricks one day, as I pondered that portion of that chapter in the Doctrine and Covenants.

Edited December 9, 2009 by mormonmusic

[bonanzafan]

rhino skin, eh? looking a little defensive there. maybe you are wearing your polite self out too much at work???