Forgiveness

[Loving_Wife]

I have some time on my hands. School work is done, kids are occupied and the other kids are at school. So I have been thinking.

Forgiveness and what it really means. I can say that I forgive, I can even believe that I have but if I have continued thoughts of ill-will have I truely forgiven? If I feel that I have truely forgiven but still have those thoughts is it just human weakness being stronger than the forgiveness that I "thought" I had given?

Is it possible that the forgiveness given was given in sincerity but now am trying to take back? That the vengence that the Lord promises is not enough? That my human heart wants, very much so, to "know" that the punishment will match the crime. That forgiveness was only given condtionally and now that forgiveness wants to be taken back so that I can give my own sense of "vengence?"

What does that say about my own salvation? What does that say about my relationship, or lack of one, with God?

And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. - Mark 11:25

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. - Matthew 18:21-22

Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. - Ephesians 4:32

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. - Colossians 3:12-13

[NeuroTypical]

Forgiveness and what it really means. I can say that I forgive, I can even believe that I have but if I have continued thoughts of ill-will have I truely forgiven? If I feel that I have truely forgiven but still have those thoughts is it just human weakness being stronger than the forgiveness that I "thought" I had given?

As far as I can tell, true forgiveness is a matter of the heart. If you have truly forgiven, you have tender thoughts towards the person who has offended you. You wish the best for them (whether that means jail time so they can reform, or God's grace so they can go to heaven, or a healthier outlook so they aren't so miserable, or whatever).

My wife had to forgive her parents for some pretty horribly evil things they had done. Our kids are not safe around these people, and we must deal with them from a distance. I knew my wife had forgiven them, when we were talking about what was going to happen to them in the afterlife, and she teared up and said "I just want them to be healthy".

I think that's what forgiveness looks like. It can be very hard to get there - but it's worth the journey.

LM

[DocG]

I think sometimes we forget that in some cases we need the Savior's help to truly forgive someone. We must apply the Atonement in a way that we are capable of forgiving someone, just as He would do. I don't know if we can do it all by ourselves. Just a thought.

[Loving_Wife]

and that is where my human mind and spirit puts limitations on forgiveness. I have forgiven a lot but have problems with other areas. Hence why I posted this.

[dazed-and-confused]

i loved what loudmouth mormon said.

and i would add, that as someone who has been abused (you), your thoughts and feelings and interpretation of things is somewhat mixed up.

give yourself time to heal, and some therapy, and when you look back upon this time, you will notice a difference in the way you think about things now and how you did it then.

[Loving_Wife]

This has nothing to do with past abuse. This has to do with a 17-year old kid who trust her spirtual elders who twisted scripture to convince a scared kid that she had no rights to her own child, her own son.

[Loving_Wife]

I am tired. I'm tired of living like this. Death is much better than this

[havejoy]

Life is a gift from Our Father. Please be careful. You are in my prayers.

[NeuroTypical]

You wanna tell us your story loving? Most of us here have made baptismal covenants to help bear your burdens that the might be light. Sounds like you're carrying quite a burden...

[edit - found it I think]

Edited January 29, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[unixknight]

I have a very hard time forgiving sometimes.

When I feel I've been wronged and the person is not apologetic, I want to hurt them. I want to see them regret having done what they did. I want them to be fully aware that the problems and hardship they're going through wouldn't have happened if they hadn't wronged me, or if they'd apologized and tried to make ammends.

I guess it's because I try to be quick to apologize when I've done wrong to someone, and I expect the same in return and often don't get it. I know it's a form of arrogance and I'm working on it, but it's not easy.

We are required to forgive whether asked to or not, and therein lies the struggle.

[NeuroTypical]

Yep. One thing that can be incredibly difficult - it's our duty to forgive whether the person repents or not. It helps to understand that forgiveness is very much for our benefit, maybe even moreso than it is for the benefit of the person being forgiven.

[StrawberryFields]

I am also having difficulty forgiving someone who holds authority in the LDS Church. This individual thinks they appear spotless before the world but we know what he is capable of. Our family has been deeply wounded because this man skirted some very important safety issues in his business. When called out on the table and fined he held a secret meeting made promises (that apparently he hasn't kept), and walked away like nothing happened. To this day he blames a child for something he could have totally prevented. I know we must forgive him even though he has never even admitted he was in the wrong. At the time this happened (years ago), he was serving as a State Pres. It in my goal that as a family we forgive him. I plan on reading The Peacekeeper and sharing what I learn with those who need the healing from this. Loving wife, I share this with you to let you know you are not alone. If you ever need a venting session I am here.

[Loving_Wife]

I'm lery of sharing just because most people would read my experience and think "there is one way that one person could go through all of that" and it doesn't help me.

My life has been one trauma after another!

I understand why John did what he did. I understand feeling like you are in a stagnet pool of dispear. Of not wanting to hurt or be hurt anymore. Of forgiving only to find that the ones you forgave come back to hurt you time and time again.

I am just tired.

[StrawberryFields]

Loving Wife, I hope you are doing a bit better. I have been thinking about you and this thread. I did read the book The Peacegiver by James L. Ferrell and now I am working on applying it to my life. I loved this book and it was very easy to adapt it to my life. I highly recommend it to everyone.

[Still_Small_Voice]

Forgiveness to me is a matter of faith. It is faith that vengeance is the Lord's and that He will repay. He is the perfect Judge.

The Peacegiver is a good book. I listened to it on an audio book and enjoyed it.

Loving Wife, I would seek and pray for Heavenly Father to give you joy. Seek that you might have the joy of the Lord in your heart. It is easy to let the burdens we shoulder in this life crush us.

[marts1]

It's interesting what it says in D.C.98:39-48 concerning forgiveness, especially 39-40.

[marts1]

I still think it is good to try and forgive always no matter what. It promotes good feelings.

[marts1]

Is there a church councilor in your area LW?

[JudoMinja]

Forgiveness means letting go of your hurt and wishing your offender the best. Some people find this easier than others. Some situations are easier to forgive than others. But that is all part of our progression in learning to become more like Christ. Think of his ministry.

He came to call the sinners to repentance. His ministry was not one "preaching to the choir" so to speak. He spent his time among the wicked, giving them the direction they needed to overcome their transgressions if only they would accept it. When they shunned his words, mistreated him, misrepresented him, and besmirked his name, he turned the other cheek. When they judged another, he said "he who is without sin cast the first stone", then forgave the sinner. He was without sin- he could have stoned her- but he forgave her, and he cautioned her to "go forth and sin no more".

We should do the same. When we forgive others, we forget their sins in the sense that we do not hold it over their heads, but we also direct them to "sin no more." To me, this means that we place whatever protections and barriers necessary to prevent further hurt should they not heed this counsel, and yet give them the trust and understanding they need to know that they are forgiven.

Any feelings of vengance are not Christ-like. It does not matter what the situation- it is not our place to be judmental or vengeful. Protective, yes. Prepared, yes. Vengeful, no. We take a defensive strategy as opposed to an offensive one. We protect ourselves from the sins of others in much the same way we protect ourselves from the temptations that will lead to our own sins. Then, we go to our brethren and sisters with no malice in our hearts and offer them all that we can to help them make the best choices in their lives.

Edited March 1, 2010 by JudoMinja

[Still_Small_Voice]

Good points JudoMinja, but I would like to clarify one thing. The woman taken in adultery was not forgiven at that point in time. She was told to start her repentance process. Go and sin no more was her counsel. In the Inspired Version of the Bible we read that she did turn her life to God and repent.