Confrontation at church

[havejoy]

That's what I'm going to do. If others in the ward can speak to them and help them understand then that will have to do. I'm out of it now because anything else I might say or do would probably just add fuel to the already out of control fire.

I hate to give up but it is time.

Thanks everyone for the concern and good advice. I tend to get tunnel vision and think I can fix things when I can't. You've helped me see that it's time to let it go.

[havejoy]

Updated for anyone who cares:

This couple wouldn't leave me alone at church last week. Friends had to intervene 3 different times. Apparently that won't be a problem again for a very long time.

This Tuesday the couple left their house and walked 2 and a half miles, out of their little community , down the road and to a nice home with a fenced in yard, two dogs and a big barn. They declared this to be their new home. She went inside, got a glass of lemonade and went out to sit on the porch. He went out to check the barn. He found a race car in the barn and started taking it apart.

The neighbors had seen them and called the police. When the police arrive the man yelled at them to get off "his property". There was a scuffle and the man ended up with a broken jaw and both of them are now in jail. Neither can come up with bail money and he's being held for psyche eval.

[NeuroTypical]

So, yeah. These people are dangerous, and should be treated as such. I would consider my family's health and well-being in danger if these people were within 5 miles of us.

The commandment is to love thy neighbor.

Trying to reason with them isn't loving them. Doing whatever is necessary to prevent them from harming you is loving them. Imagine the afterlife: "I sure did a lot of dumb stuff and hurt a lot of people on earth - thanks for making it so I couldn't hurt you!"

LM

[Jenamarie]

Wow!

At least they'll hopefully get the help they need now. And I'm glad no one had to be seriously hurt for that help to arrive. (assuming none of the police officers were seriously hurt)

[havejoy]

The man is finally going to get the help he needs and he never would have agreed to it otherwise.

I was asked to got to their house and get the oxygen concentrator to take to the jail. There was writing all over the walls and the toilet. There were bottles, cans and jars of what looked like urine setting everywhere and they were labeled 'bio hazard' or 'bio waste'. Some of them were labled that they had tested positive for 'salutonium' or 'tilonium' or some other made up isotopic sounding name.

It's really sad.

[MorningStar]

What a horrible nightmare for you. I hope you won't feel guilty. There is love and there is tough love which is still just as loving. You are a wonderful person, havejoy. :)

[havejoy]

Thanks MorningStar. I have wrestled with some guilt feelings because it seems even though the dogs were in horrible shape, he really didn't see it and they were somehow helping him keep his sanity. He went downhill so quickly after the dogs went to the shelter.....

But we had been praying so hard for him to get help and I think I can see God's hand in this from the beginning. Anyway he is going to get psychiatric care now whether he wants it or not. The judge has not set bail for him and won't until after the eval.

[MorningStar]

Thanks MorningStar. I have wrestled with some guilt feelings because it seems even though the dogs were in horrible shape, he really didn't see it and they were somehow helping him keep his sanity. He went downhill so quickly after the dogs went to the shelter.....

But we had been praying so hard for him to get help and I think I can see God's hand in this from the beginning. Anyway he is going to get psychiatric care now whether he wants it or not. The judge has not set bail for him and won't until after the eval.

I can identify with that. It took refusing all contact with this woman in my ward for her to finally get into therapy. I don't know if she stayed with it, but it's a start. I felt terrible being one more person whose friendship she lost, but it was the right thing to do and will help her in the longrun. It's just the consequence of her actions.

[ADoyle90815]

It's good that this person will get the help they need finally, but it's still a good idea to get that protective order if you haven't done so for when that person gets out of jail. I wouldn't worry about being sued, as those pictures would cause a judge to dismiss the lawsuit, or a jury to find in your favor.

[Moksha]

The detective called me on Saturday and told me he had been to this couple's home and told them he wouldn't accept charges against me. The man was not happy. He called me after the detective left and threatened to go to the DA and file charges, says I violated his space and he'll never go to church again because the Bishop told him to back off. He's threatening to go to the newspaper and do whatever it takes to "tear your world up, Lady".

He also says he had a stroke Saturday morning and it's my fault.

Sort of makes you long for the good old days when the Mafia and the CIA were mostly to blame for their mind rays.

Best just to smile and not touch this craziness. :) Here is to you and the ward continuing to care despite such trials. :)

[NeuroTypical]

Neither can come up with bail money and he's being held for psyche eval.

At least they'll hopefully get the help they need now.

The man is finally going to get the help he needs and he never would have agreed to it otherwise.

Heh. Word to the wise - getting arrested and held for a psyche eval can be a very long way away from 'getting the help they need'.

Havejoy, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the soap opera saga of these folks isn't over yet. My advice would be to let everyone and their dog know what happened and what you saw in their house. Get witnesses if possible. Prepare for round 3 (or 5, or whatever you're up to now).

LM

[havejoy]

I don't have any experience with this sort of thing but I'm hoping they won't let him out any time soon. He fought with the cops and they've only charged him with breaking into the house. They could get him for resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer and trespassing if they wanted to so I've been hoping that the reason he hasn't been charged is because they recognize that he needs help and is dangerous.

I know I won't go back to church with them there. I'll just ask to be released from my calling and I'll go to the late meeting.

Her VT was with me when we went to get the O2 concentrator so I do have a witness.

[NeuroTypical]

I talked about this case with my wife, who has a much greater understanding about how these things work than I do. A lot depends on the laws of your state, but most likely they will be unable to hold these people against their will for very long, unless they do something more serious than breaking/entering and fighting with the cops. What is likely to happen, is they'll be released with a court date and a state case worker/social worker of some kind. There may be some medication and counseling and whatnot, but again, unless someone chooses to take their meds and keep their appointments, they'll likely stay crazy.

It would be in your best interests to find out who this case/social worker is, and to give them periodic updates on how things are going. For example, if you see them collecting dogs again, or it looks like they haven't left their house in a week, their case worker would appreciate hearing about that. Similarly, if you see they are improving and being better people, it would probably go a long way to heal the battle scars if their worker let them know that they've impressed a neighbor.

Keep the news coming!

LM

[Just_A_Guy]

I'm not terribly familiar with what happens to mentally incompetent individuals who run afoul of the law; but as to the penalties for breaking and entering--I'm with Loudmouth; they're likely to be minor and once the psych evaluation is done I wouldn't be surprised to see these guys on your doorstep within a week.

Get the protective order.

[havejoy]

I spoke with my Bishop tonight and he says they won't be able to make bail so they will probably sit in jail until it goes to trial unless the court appointed attorney can get them out some other way.

Their house is going through foreclosure so they probably won't be going back there anyway. Bishop says he's looking at getting her a small apartment type place to live so apparently all the stories about her waiting for a lung transplant were not true. She did walk almost 2.5 miles without her oxygen so I had been wondering about that.

The Bishop has the impression that the man won't be getting out anytime soon and will be getting remanded to a psych facility until he becomes capable of participating in his own defense. Time will tell though and I look them up on the county judicial records website every morning to see if they've been released so I don't have to worry about it.

As far as getting a protective order in Texas, it's almost impossible. I've talked to the police about it and have been told it's highly unlikely a judge would grant me one based on the threats I can prove. I'll just go to the ward that meets late in our building.

Thanks everyone. This has been a real reality check for me. It's nice to have others to bounce things off of.