Not sure while I'm still struggling with my beliefs.

[daenvgiell]

I've been struggling with this for a long time, posted several thread about it before also, some of you may have read it, others may not have.

Nearly 3 years ago I moved away from home, moved to the other side of the country so that I could do my course that I am currently in my final year of studying. I had no family over here for a year or so. I went to church every week, lived the gospel etc. somewhere along the way I lost my testimony? I don't actually know if I had it to begin with, or if I was just relying on my parents and my family's. I tried really hard to find out for myself, prayed, studied the preach my gospel as well as the scriptures that went along with it. Anyway, it went even further as to the point where I don't know if I believe in God or not, I haven't had any real confirmations that I know of? Maybe I'm just stubborn, I have decided to just believe and get on with it, I was born in the church. I think about the creation and human beings and all of those things and think it isn't possible that everything just happened, but I still don't know what to believe. I don't understand myself or what's going on, but I'm tired of trying and feeling like I'm getting nowhere.

Anyway before I go all over the place, at the beginning of the year I was asked if I wanted to go to the Temple, I want to go I feel like it's where I should go (heck, I want to be married there), but I don't feel worthy, don't feel like I could go there. I had the interview with the Branch president (back at my Home with my family), I told him my concerns, the only questions I couldn't answer were Do you believe in God, and do you believe in the Church, I told him truthfully and he felt prompted to give me the temporary recommend to enter into the temple.

As I said before I have just told myself to Believe in God and get on with it, but how do I get confirmation, I want to believe whole heartedly without any doubt like others say they do, but how do I get that for myself? and also to believe in the church. Am I just being stubborn and stupid or what, I feel like I'm getting nowhere.

Sorry for the really long winded post and all over the place, but I don't feel like I can do this any more. How did you get your confirmation? How do you know?

[tubaloth]

Sounds like you need to build a foundation. Start by reading the book of mormon. I assume you have read this in the past? but start again, day 1 is today. Read the title page of the book of mormon, read the intro to it, and read the Testimony of Joseph Smith and the Witness.

Then go through the Journey of the Book of mormon. I would suggest you pray before and after reading your scriptures for help finding the answer.

What I guess surprises me, as up until this point you have never felt the spirit? In sacrament meeting?

I wonder if you had felt it before, but have forgotten what it felt like.

Last, serve others. What ever your calling is, do it 110% and see what happens.

[WindRiver]

In my own life when I have felt the spirit depart, there has been a reason or reasons.

Sin - Ask God to make you aware of any past or present transgressions that you need to take care of so the spirit can return. If it is a serious one, particularly dealing with the law of Chastity, you need to also talk to your priesthood leader about it.

Service - Do something for someone else every day, pray to be guided in ways you can help others and have the courage to follow a prompting when it comes.

Obedience - if you aren't doing all of these things to the best of your ability the spirit can depart from you.

* Attend ALL your meetings

* Read the Scriptures TWICE a day

* Prayer - Twice a day minimum

* Tithing - pay a generous tithe, don't look for "deductions" like you were doing your taxes

* Fast Offering - Pay a generous fast offering, not the price of a value meal at burger king.

* Missionary Work - Constantly seek out individuals you can teach the gospel to.

* Temple - Attend Once a Month without fail, preferably more often if you can.

* Callings - Do more than the bare minimum in your callings " Magnify " them. Never refuse a calling unless you have a clear OK from Heavenly Father to do so and never ask to be released. You can inform your leader of your current situation and let them decide through inspiration. It is their stewardship / responsibility to make that choice.

* Family Home Evening - Once a week without fail, even if you are single or have no kids. Find an FHE group to attend with, ask your Bishop / Branch pres. to find one.

* Avoid reading material or watching movies / TV that does not edify. Nothing will drive the spirit out of your home faster than an inappropriate book, article, movie or TV show.

* Thoughts - Pay attention to what you are thinking at all times - our thoughts lead to actions. We can't control the thoughts that pop into our minds but "giving a place on the stage of our mind" for impure thoughts will drive the spirit away.

* Stand in Holy Places - "Hanging out" with friends who are doing things that are in conflict with the Gospel even if we aren't participating is going to leave the spirit outside.

That list, at least to me looks pretty intimidating, but don't forget that the Lord will give us everything we need beyond our own abilities to do what is required, as long as we are making our best effort.

Edited April 8, 2010 by WindRiver

[Gwen]

you said branch pres so i'm assuming you are not in an lds saturated area. look for a need and offer to help fill the calling or pray and ask for one (not a specific one, just something to do). don't look for something easy for you to do. in fact i would suggest you find the one that terrifies you the most (or if that's the calling issued take it). i've found that i've gotten the most spiritual experiences when filling a calling that i knew i was far from qualified for. in those cases i've sought the lord as a guide more than "normal" and he's been there. it's the best way i know to gain a testimony.

i don't want to go into details here but if it makes you feel any better i've had those very powerful experiences, where there can be no doubt. i still doubt. i don't doubt those events, the doubt is in other things and i struggle with it daily. it's different for everyone. try to find your truths not other ppl's.

[rameumptom]

Doubts are normal for all of us, especially in our youth. Don't sweat it. Young people want answers immediately. It doesn't help that our society encourages instant gratification. God works patiently with us, a little at a time.

Look at each issue of the gospel, one at a time. Determine which parts of it you believe in, or are at least very appealing to you. You obviously like the idea of the temple and eternal marriage. Obviously there are other things that intrigue you about the Church. While you are uncertain about God's existence, you probably feel that it would be great if there were a loving and kind God. Focus on those things. Over time, God will give you a stronger testimony.

Lorenzo Snow was in your same boat. He liked a lot of what he saw in the Church, but unlike his sister, Eliza R Snow, he had not received a spiritual witness. Still, he liked it enough, and trusted in his sister's testimony enough, that he joined the Church. It wasn't until later that he received a strong witness that went from the top of his head down to the soles of his feet.

Brigham Young studied the gospel for 2 years before he joined. Given that these two became prophets of God, I'm thinking that you would do well to just ponder the wonderful things you like about the Church, and patiently wait until God reveals himself to you on issues of testimony.

And focus your energy in learning God's will. Just reading the scriptures is often not enough. This year, I'm doing my blog on the Sunday School OT lessons, and copying them here at LDS.NET http://www.lds.net/forums/old-testament/

In doing this blog, where I'm spending several hours per week to do it, and it ends up being 7-12 pages of type written text each time, I'm forcing myself to really look at the Old Testament and what it means. I've received many insights as I've gone along. Just this week, as I prepared Lesson 14, it came to me that the story of Israel at the base of Sinai was the Garden of Eden story (as the Exodus is also the Creation story). To see it in that context really helped me to understand both events, as well as the temple ordinances, that much better. It strengthened my testimony. But I had to put in the hard work, not focusing on whether I had a testimony or not, but in trying to understand God's purpose in giving us such inspired stories.

Edited April 8, 2010 by rameumptom

[ehkape]

In my own life when I have felt the spirit depart, there has been a reason or reasons.

Sin - Ask God to make you aware of any past or present transgressions that you need to take care of so the spirit can return. If it is a serious one, particularly dealing with the law of Chastity, you need to also talk to your priesthood leader about it.

Why is it, that every time someone has a testimony-concern somone else comes up with "uhhh, maybe you have unnoticed past transgressions or you live in sin"? Sorry WindRiver, but I can't hear it anymore.

People question their beliefs even though they might not have sinned and live a good (christian) life!

daenvgiell, I hope you will find a way to regain your faith. I try to focus on the small and simple things in life that I am thankful for. Maybe a prayer that includes only "thank you" parts and no requests might be a sweet experience. I enjoy thanking my Heavenly Father for the many blessings in my life (also the small and tiny ones). It helps me to focus on God when I am too carried away with my own concerns about my faith in the church.

ehkape

[Dominic_Korozya]

I've been struggling with this for a long time, posted several thread about it before also, some of you may have read it, others may not have.

Nearly 3 years ago I moved away from home, moved to the other side of the country so that I could do my course that I am currently in my final year of studying. I had no family over here for a year or so. I went to church every week, lived the gospel etc. somewhere along the way I lost my testimony? I don't actually know if I had it to begin with, or if I was just relying on my parents and my family's. I tried really hard to find out for myself, prayed, studied the preach my gospel as well as the scriptures that went along with it. Anyway, it went even further as to the point where I don't know if I believe in God or not, I haven't had any real confirmations that I know of? Maybe I'm just stubborn, I have decided to just believe and get on with it, I was born in the church. I think about the creation and human beings and all of those things and think it isn't possible that everything just happened, but I still don't know what to believe. I don't understand myself or what's going on, but I'm tired of trying and feeling like I'm getting nowhere.

Anyway before I go all over the place, at the beginning of the year I was asked if I wanted to go to the Temple, I want to go I feel like it's where I should go (heck, I want to be married there), but I don't feel worthy, don't feel like I could go there. I had the interview with the Branch president (back at my Home with my family), I told him my concerns, the only questions I couldn't answer were Do you believe in God, and do you believe in the Church, I told him truthfully and he felt prompted to give me the temporary recommend to enter into the temple.

As I said before I have just told myself to Believe in God and get on with it, but how do I get confirmation, I want to believe whole heartedly without any doubt like others say they do, but how do I get that for myself? and also to believe in the church. Am I just being stubborn and stupid or what, I feel like I'm getting nowhere.

Sorry for the really long winded post and all over the place, but I don't feel like I can do this any more. How did you get your confirmation? How do you know?

Sometimes all you have to do is loose faith in one thing and then everthing else will just fall out of place too. You just need to figure out what put that first thought into your head. Where did it start and why? If you can indicate in your mind where this all began then maybe you could be able to realise why your faith suddenly died. Depression can cause this. Do you suffer from depression or stress? They can often leave you feeling like the "spirit has left you".

Just remember that faith lost is love lost.

Ending your faith in God gives you no possitive reward. Christ once said "knock, and the door will be opened to you. Ask, and yee shall receive".

[crazypotato]

I think you are totally normal.

But remember that doubt and faith cannot exist at the same time. You can't just make yourself believe. Instead you have to start with a hope to find the truth. Like is it in Moroni where he talks about faith as being the size of a mustard seed, but it starts with hope. If your branch pres gave you a temporary recommend, I think you should use it out of curiousity, if anything else, to see if you feel the spirit in the temple. It is easier, I believe, for everyone to feel the spirit in the temple.

We don't know you or your heart. You may have never had a testimony, like you said, but you could have and if you aren't constantly feeding your spirit, your testimony can get weak and die.

Anyway, everyone goes through times where the Spirit is strong and then other times where we can't feel it and don't know why, and have to figure out why.

[daenvgiell]

Sounds like you need to build a foundation. Start by reading the book of mormon. I assume you have read this in the past? but start again, day 1 is today. Read the title page of the book of mormon, read the intro to it, and read the Testimony of Joseph Smith and the Witness.

Then go through the Journey of the Book of mormon. I would suggest you pray before and after reading your scriptures for help finding the answer.

What I guess surprises me, as up until this point you have never felt the spirit? In sacrament meeting?

I wonder if you had felt it before, but have forgotten what it felt like.

Last, serve others. What ever your calling is, do it 110% and see what happens.

I have read the Book of Mormon before and I'm in the process of reading it again, just having got through Alma.

As so many other people before have stated and it's been told before that people feel the spirit in different ways, I'm not sure if I've felt the spirit because I don't know how the spirit comes to me, if it's ever come to me at all.

In my own life when I have felt the spirit depart, there has been a reason or reasons.

Sin - Ask God to make you aware of any past or present transgressions that you need to take care of so the spirit can return. If it is a serious one, particularly dealing with the law of Chastity, you need to also talk to your priesthood leader about it.

Service - Do something for someone else every day, pray to be guided in ways you can help others and have the courage to follow a prompting when it comes.

Obedience - if you aren't doing all of these things to the best of your ability the spirit can depart from you.

* Attend ALL your meetings

* Read the Scriptures TWICE a day

* Prayer - Twice a day minimum

* Tithing - pay a generous tithe, don't look for "deductions" like you were doing your taxes

* Fast Offering - Pay a generous fast offering, not the price of a value meal at burger king.

* Missionary Work - Constantly seek out individuals you can teach the gospel to.

* Temple - Attend Once a Month without fail, preferably more often if you can.

* Callings - Do more than the bare minimum in your callings " Magnify " them. Never refuse a calling unless you have a clear OK from Heavenly Father to do so and never ask to be released. You can inform your leader of your current situation and let them decide through inspiration. It is their stewardship / responsibility to make that choice.

* Family Home Evening - Once a week without fail, even if you are single or have no kids. Find an FHE group to attend with, ask your Bishop / Branch pres. to find one.

* Avoid reading material or watching movies / TV that does not edify. Nothing will drive the spirit out of your home faster than an inappropriate book, article, movie or TV show.

* Thoughts - Pay attention to what you are thinking at all times - our thoughts lead to actions. We can't control the thoughts that pop into our minds but "giving a place on the stage of our mind" for impure thoughts will drive the spirit away.

* Stand in Holy Places - "Hanging out" with friends who are doing things that are in conflict with the Gospel even if we aren't participating is going to leave the spirit outside.

That list, at least to me looks pretty intimidating, but don't forget that the Lord will give us everything we need beyond our own abilities to do what is required, as long as we are making our best effort.

Some of these things I have not done for awhile I will admit, but a lot of them I so so. I pay my tithing without a grudge, it's the first thing I do when I get income.

How can I attend the Temple if I don't feel like I'm worthy enough to go? I may have a temporary recommend but I still feel like I shouldn't be going there when I couldn't answer all the questions truthfully.

you said branch pres so i'm assuming you are not in an lds saturated area. look for a need and offer to help fill the calling or pray and ask for one (not a specific one, just something to do). don't look for something easy for you to do. in fact i would suggest you find the one that terrifies you the most (or if that's the calling issued take it). i've found that i've gotten the most spiritual experiences when filling a calling that i knew i was far from qualified for. in those cases i've sought the lord as a guide more than "normal" and he's been there. it's the best way i know to gain a testimony.

i don't want to go into details here but if it makes you feel any better i've had those very powerful experiences, where there can be no doubt. i still doubt. i don't doubt those events, the doubt is in other things and i struggle with it daily. it's different for everyone. try to find your truths not other ppl's.

The branch is actually back in my hometown, I am actually now living in one of the most major cities of the country. I do have a calling, I'm a relief society teacher.

I'm confused, you say you cannot doubt, but you still doubt with other things, do you mind me asking for an example?

Doubts are normal for all of us, especially in our youth. Don't sweat it. Young people want answers immediately. It doesn't help that our society encourages instant gratification. God works patiently with us, a little at a time.

Look at each issue of the gospel, one at a time. Determine which parts of it you believe in, or are at least very appealing to you. You obviously like the idea of the temple and eternal marriage. Obviously there are other things that intrigue you about the Church. While you are uncertain about God's existence, you probably feel that it would be great if there were a loving and kind God. Focus on those things. Over time, God will give you a stronger testimony.

Lorenzo Snow was in your same boat. He liked a lot of what he saw in the Church, but unlike his sister, Eliza R Snow, he had not received a spiritual witness. Still, he liked it enough, and trusted in his sister's testimony enough, that he joined the Church. It wasn't until later that he received a strong witness that went from the top of his head down to the soles of his feet.

Brigham Young studied the gospel for 2 years before he joined. Given that these two became prophets of God, I'm thinking that you would do well to just ponder the wonderful things you like about the Church, and patiently wait until God reveals himself to you on issues of testimony.

And focus your energy in learning God's will. Just reading the scriptures is often not enough. This year, I'm doing my blog on the Sunday School OT lessons, and copying them here at LDS.NET http://www.lds.net/forums/old-testament/

In doing this blog, where I'm spending several hours per week to do it, and it ends up being 7-12 pages of type written text each time, I'm forcing myself to really look at the Old Testament and what it means. I've received many insights as I've gone along. Just this week, as I prepared Lesson 14, it came to me that the story of Israel at the base of Sinai was the Garden of Eden story (as the Exodus is also the Creation story). To see it in that context really helped me to understand both events, as well as the temple ordinances, that much better. It strengthened my testimony. But I had to put in the hard work, not focusing on whether I had a testimony or not, but in trying to understand God's purpose in giving us such inspired stories.

I never knew this, or if I had been taught it I have since forgotten it, that is a big help right there the fact that prophets have been searching for years, I supose I just worry because I was born into the church and have been living it's principles since then and I'm still struggling?

Why is it, that every time someone has a testimony-concern somone else comes up with "uhhh, maybe you have unnoticed past transgressions or you live in sin"? Sorry WindRiver, but I can't hear it anymore.

People question their beliefs even though they might not have sinned and live a good (christian) life!

daenvgiell, I hope you will find a way to regain your faith. I try to focus on the small and simple things in life that I am thankful for. Maybe a prayer that includes only "thank you" parts and no requests might be a sweet experience. I enjoy thanking my Heavenly Father for the many blessings in my life (also the small and tiny ones). It helps me to focus on God when I am too carried away with my own concerns about my faith in the church.

ehkape

Thankyou for your input, I will try this also.

Sometimes all you have to do is loose faith in one thing and then everthing else will just fall out of place too. You just need to figure out what put that first thought into your head. Where did it start and why? If you can indicate in your mind where this all began then maybe you could be able to realise why your faith suddenly died. Depression can cause this. Do you suffer from depression or stress? They can often leave you feeling like the "spirit has left you".

Just remember that faith lost is love lost.

Ending your faith in God gives you no possitive reward. Christ once said "knock, and the door will be opened to you. Ask, and yee shall receive".

I'm not sure what it was that caused it or what I lost faith in? As I said, I moved away from my family, there was no one here with me, I had no relatives no close friends nothing, just someone who continually goes on about my life unoticed an uncared for besides my family, only... they are on the other side of the country, I guess that impacted on me quite a bit, I never really thought of how big an impact it was, I always thought I was quite indipendent, but I was wrong.

I had to ask for lifts every week to church, and I felt like a burden, no one would ever offer, they knew I had no other way of getting to church, but no one would bother. I felt like the outcast... I still do in a way even though I don't have to ask for lifts anymore as I now have my own car here.

I think you are totally normal.

But remember that doubt and faith cannot exist at the same time. You can't just make yourself believe. Instead you have to start with a hope to find the truth. Like is it in Moroni where he talks about faith as being the size of a mustard seed, but it starts with hope. If your branch pres gave you a temporary recommend, I think you should use it out of curiousity, if anything else, to see if you feel the spirit in the temple. It is easier, I believe, for everyone to feel the spirit in the temple.

We don't know you or your heart. You may have never had a testimony, like you said, but you could have and if you aren't constantly feeding your spirit, your testimony can get weak and die.

Anyway, everyone goes through times where the Spirit is strong and then other times where we can't feel it and don't know why, and have to figure out why.

Is it normal to go on doing something just because? That's what I feel like my whole life has been about involving the church. I don't know what I believe and cling to church so much because I want this Temple marriage so much? I don't understand it, but besides that fact how can I have a temple marriage is I can't even believe in the things that lead up to it, no one is going to want to marry someone for eternity if they aren't a strong member are they? Anyway that's just one of the examples I have.

Thanks for your help so far guys, it's really appreciated.

[Dominic_Korozya]

I'm not sure what it was that caused it or what I lost faith in? As I said, I moved away from my family, there was no one here with me, I had no relatives no close friends nothing, just someone who continually goes on about my life unoticed an uncared for besides my family, only... they are on the other side of the country, I guess that impacted on me quite a bit, I never really thought of how big an impact it was, I always thought I was quite indipendent, but I was wrong.

I had to ask for lifts every week to church, and I felt like a burden, no one would ever offer, they knew I had no other way of getting to church, but no one would bother. I felt like the outcast... I still do in a way even though I don't have to ask for lifts anymore as I now have my own car here.

This sounds terrible Daenvgiell, I also had a church like this once. I use to go to a church where I slowly but steadly just ended up feeling like nothing more than a shadow. I feel so angry at the ministers because they were so loving and caring at first, there was nothing they would not do to aid me. But I went through some bad stages which I wont elaborate on, and I noticed that everyone was drifting away from me. I went to this church for years and I first became a christian there. I feel so angry and yet so upset that they just cut themselves off from me. They ignored my text, my calls, my emails. I even had the ministers registered on facebook and they blanked me there also.

I miss the community, I miss the connections, the bible studies, the extended worship after sunday service, the tours we did annually. I have lost so much, I am so angry with them and yet I would do anything to have them back in my life again.

I just go to work every day, come back and "hey presto", I'm alone again. My colleages are far from friendly either. They act like yobs you'd meet on streets corners.

I know what it is like to be alone. But you sound so much more upset than I am. I will keep you in my prayers, that you might find happiness again.

[LDSVALLEY]

I read the 7 habits of highly effective families, in it one person told the author he didn't know if he loved his spouse anymore, that things had gotten bad between them and he just didn't know.

The advice was:

Love is a verb and a noun. The act of loving (verb) brings about the state of love (noun).

If you feel you are not sure you still love your spouse or not fake it. Use Love (verb) grit your teeth and ignore every complaint, go out of your way to do little acts of kindness. After a couple of weeks the other person even if they don't realize it will begin to respond to your love (verb) and do in kind. This will then grow into love (noun) again.

My advice is the same.

You are doing thing the way you should tithing, calling etc. You have a limited use recommend use it. Assume you have a testimony of it all being true but it is weak. Do little things to make it grow, continue in your calling etc, forget about worrying about having a testimony assume you have one and act that way. Go to the temple as often as you can, the act of growing your testimony will cause it to exist in your case.

As to how you figure out how the Holy Ghost communicates with you it took me 3 years after baptism before it became clear. All things in the Lords time.

[daenvgiell]

This sounds terrible Daenvgiell, I also had a church like this once. I use to go to a church where I slowly but steadly just ended up feeling like nothing more than a shadow. I feel so angry at the ministers because they were so loving and caring at first, there was nothing they would not do to aid me. But I went through some bad stages which I wont elaborate on, and I noticed that everyone was drifting away from me. I went to this church for years and I first became a christian there. I feel so angry and yet so upset that they just cut themselves off from me. They ignored my text, my calls, my emails. I even had the ministers registered on facebook and they blanked me there also.

I miss the community, I miss the connections, the bible studies, the extended worship after sunday service, the tours we did annually. I have lost so much, I am so angry with them and yet I would do anything to have them back in my life again.

I just go to work every day, come back and "hey presto", I'm alone again. My colleages are far from friendly either. They act like yobs you'd meet on streets corners.

I know what it is like to be alone. But you sound so much more upset than I am. I will keep you in my prayers, that you might find happiness again.

What I've been through sounds like nothing in comparison to what you've been faced with. Yes I had to ask for lifts every week and then sunday's was the only contact I've had, but I did have people talk to me at church, granted I know hardly anyone in my ward and I've been there nearly 3 years, My RS president has become a good friend of mine and the YSA group is pretty friendly now, but I still feel out of the loop with them. As with the rides at least I'd get to talk to them, now because I have my own car they all assume I can just make it to things and don't really bother with me all that much, they forget I have no idea where different parts of the city are etc etc. I feel more included within the ward a bit, but I still feel alone, even with my sister now living with me. Thankyou for your prayers though, I hate feeling this way.

I read the 7 habits of highly effective families, in it one person told the author he didn't know if he loved his spouse anymore, that things had gotten bad between them and he just didn't know.

The advice was:

Love is a verb and a noun. The act of loving (verb) brings about the state of love (noun).

If you feel you are not sure you still love your spouse or not fake it. Use Love (verb) grit your teeth and ignore every complaint, go out of your way to do little acts of kindness. After a couple of weeks the other person even if they don't realize it will begin to respond to your love (verb) and do in kind. This will then grow into love (noun) again.

My advice is the same.

You are doing thing the way you should tithing, calling etc. You have a limited use recommend use it. Assume you have a testimony of it all being true but it is weak. Do little things to make it grow, continue in your calling etc, forget about worrying about having a testimony assume you have one and act that way. Go to the temple as often as you can, the act of growing your testimony will cause it to exist in your case.

As to how you figure out how the Holy Ghost communicates with you it took me 3 years after baptism before it became clear. All things in the Lords time.

That's what I've been trying to do, for example me telling myself just to believe etc, I've been trying to live like this. As for the temple, I still feel unworthy to use to temporary one that I have, I feel like I'm cheating the system and that I shouldn't be allowed to walk into the sacred building.

[Dominic_Korozya]

What I've been through sounds like nothing in comparison to what you've been faced with. Yes I had to ask for lifts every week and then sunday's was the only contact I've had, but I did have people talk to me at church, granted I know hardly anyone in my ward and I've been there nearly 3 years, My RS president has become a good friend of mine and the YSA group is pretty friendly now, but I still feel out of the loop with them. As with the rides at least I'd get to talk to them, now because I have my own car they all assume I can just make it to things and don't really bother with me all that much, they forget I have no idea where different parts of the city are etc etc. I feel more included within the ward a bit, but I still feel alone, even with my sister now living with me. Thankyou for your prayers though, I hate feeling this way.

I find that music helps the day breeze by easier.

Forums have always been a great help too, but to be honest it can some times turn nasty. I'm registered to about six forums, Islamic, Jewish, Catholic, christian, satanic and LDS. I've been on them for a while now and I've sort of learned not to put any emotion into my posting, be it possitive emotion or negative. It's best not to do either.

I've found that forums have made me change the way I am with people, it isn't good.

I let my self down on this thread however. I try not to engage with anyone too much. I try not to share personal information either. I just love Christ, His word, His Father and all His teachings that have survived throughout all of these terrible years. Forums are enough for me, friendship aside, the discussion is more enough for me.

[crazypotato]

I'm not sure what it was that caused it or what I lost faith in? As I said, I moved away from my family, there was no one here with me, I had no relatives no close friends nothing, just someone who continually goes on about my life unoticed an uncared for besides my family, only... they are on the other side of the country, I guess that impacted on me quite a bit, I never really thought of how big an impact it was, I always thought I was quite indipendent, but I was wrong.

I had to ask for lifts every week to church, and I felt like a burden, no one would ever offer, they knew I had no other way of getting to church, but no one would bother. I felt like the outcast... I still do in a way even though I don't have to ask for lifts anymore as I now have my own car here.

Hi Daenvigiell,

Maybe what we have going on here is a little bit of depression mixed with not a strong or no testimony because you moved away and don't have a big support system in your new ward. Sometimes people are depressed without realizing it. Like you are saying that you should feel the spirit but you don't. You should be more independent but you're not. People should call you and ask if you need a ride to church but they arent'. Maybe you are used to being around your friends and family and lots of support, and now you are far away without that. If you have a little mild depression going on, that will block the Holy Ghost.

For me, the Holy Ghost leaves when I feel sorry for myself or think negative thoughts. I pray to God to lift me out and he doesn't and I still don't feel the Holy Ghost. But if I actively try to get out the the depression mode by replacing those those with gratitude and doing stuff that is uplifting, I start to feel the Spirit again. The Spirit for me is sometimes just a vague sense of peace, not anything strong. Other times it is more of words in my mind or a zing in my body, but usually just a subtle feeling. If I read the Book of Mormon and think, is this book even true? I can't feel the Spirit. If I go to the topical guide and pick out a topic, then look up the scriptures and write down my thoughts, then I may or may not feel the Spirit, depending on lots of things. It all starts with where your thoughts are. You sound a little down, which is normal. You sound young, too. Did you know that Brigham Young took a looooonnnng time to gain a testimony of our church?

Take care!

[LDSVALLEY]

That's what I've been trying to do, for example me telling myself just to believe etc, I've been trying to live like this. As for the temple, I still feel unworthy to use to temporary one that I have, I feel like I'm cheating the system and that I shouldn't be allowed to walk into the sacred building.

There is a reason your Branch President gave you a limited use temple recommend after you told him how you felt. You've prayed for help with this, the Lord uses others often to provide us the answers we seek.

If he gave you one then you are worthy to use it in the eyes of the Lord.

You are not cheating the system but saving souls by being involved in Baptism.

It is the place you can feel the spirit of the Lord strongest even in the Baptism font.

We as humans put up barriers to ourselves.

THE LORD IS TRYING TO HELP YOU.

HE HAS DECIDED YOUR ABILITY TO ENTER THE TEMPLE.

GO TO THE TEMPLE AS OFTEN AS YOU CAN AND AS SOON AS YOU CAN.

TRUST IN THE LORD AND LET THE REST TAKE CARE OF ITSELF

I know from personal experience how hard it can be to feel worthy of the Lord's blessings. How it can question your testimony when you feel you are unworthy of the Holy Ghost. Reading between the lines you are searching for a big light going on that tells you things are true.

I don't know you at all but I know from the things you are saying you are doing that your soul knows the truth. If you deep down did not believe the church was true you would have no struggle with being worthy or not for the temple.

It is not the big bright stuff most people talk about it is the quite still moments. People born into the church have more of a struggle then adult converts like me because it is so different it is easy to tell. Those raised in the gospel have a constant companionship which makes it hard to feel for yourself because it is part of you.

[Moksha]

As I said before I have just told myself to Believe in God and get on with it, but how do I get confirmation, I want to believe whole heartedly without any doubt like others say they do, but how do I get that for myself? and also to believe in the church. Am I just being stubborn and stupid or what, I feel like I'm getting nowhere.

Daenvgiell, a cynic might say that those who claim such knowledge beyond a doubt are merely expressing their leap of faith. So what if you have not received earth shattering confirmation of that which you wish to be true and such a confirmation never arrives in this form? Life would still go on. I doubt most people ever have the epiphany you seek, yet their spiritual yearings are the same.

You might consider the wisdom of the Tao at this point: Cease struggling to find the truth and instead, let it find you. Be gentle with yourself. Flow with the river and God will find you.

:)

[Adomini22]

I agree with Moksha. There have been times when I did not get confirmation at all when praying/investigating on things I consider important. Whenever that has happened, I made a decision for myself based upon logic and knowing the right thing to do. It has always turned out well so far. Then, its later on when something spiritual hits me.

Of course, (not to be devils advocate), but you could always go the opposite side of the argument, but I highly doubt you will find what you are looking for there. But you may stumble upon evidence of what you seek "playing the other side". Very rarely will this happen, but I am just saying.....

[Guest]

From what my husband says, this is normal crossroads for somebody born in the church. He went through it when he was about 17 and did something super drastic - he questioned the church and ended up going to every church he can find to "check them out". He realized he's had a testimony all along that the LDS church is the true church. He went back to the LDS church when he was 21. Missed his opportunity to go on a mission because we got married shorty thereafter. But, I can tell you, that journey he undertook is just as good as a mission as far as the strength of his testimony now is concerned. Trial by fire and all that...

I don't recommend you do this. It worked for my husband because he is a strong-willed person and is not easily led by the nose - and his sincerity in seeking for truth was very strong. He got burned - did some bad things - but he was courageous enough to face the music when he went back to church - immediately saw the bishop and did everything he had to do to complete his repentance process, with all humility. I love that guy!

I'm telling you this just so you know a lot of people born in the church has to find their own testimony one way or the other. Now is your time.

[Finrock]

Good afternoon daenvgiell. It is a pleasure to meet you! :)

Thank you for your courage for in sharing your struggles.

As I said before I have just told myself to Believe in God and get on with it, but how do I get confirmation, I want to believe whole heartedly without any doubt like others say they do, but how do I get that for myself? and also to believe in the church. Am I just being stubborn and stupid or what, I feel like I'm getting nowhere.

You may not see it but what you've expressed here is precisely what you should do. You have expressed a strong desire to believe and you have essentially said that you will live your life as if you believe. Do you know how much faith it takes to do what you are suggesting? A tremendous amount! And what may surprise you even more is that I'm suggesting that you seem to have this tremendous faith. The only "mistake" that I see is that you are worried about living the gospel and committing to it when you don't have a confirmation. This worry seems to be causing you to second guess and doubt that the gospel is for you.

Take that leap of faith and shrug off your worries. You can do this by finding peace in placing your burden before the Lord by trusting that in God's due time He will bless you for your exercise of faith. Even if you have doubts about the existence of God, let your desire to believe take precedence and let it work in you to act as if you believe. I like what Moksha suggested. Stop struggling or worrying about finding the truth and just live the gospel. In time, God will confirm to you what you believe and have been doing, in faith, so that you can know and continue to do what you have been doing, with a surety born through the power of the Holy Spirit.

So, really, you are already doing the right things. The only thing you need to do now is just stop worrying about it. When you stop worrying about it, then that worry will no longer feed your doubt and you will have more place in your heart to receive a witness.

And, one last thing. You told your Branch President your feelings and he still approved your temple recommend. You are worthy to go to the temple. Just go there and enjoy it. Don't worry about getting answers or whatever. Don't have expectations that the visit to the temple will cure all your doubts. Don't even think that way. Just go there and faithfully do the temple work and go often. Just trust in God and let it all go. God will answer you. In His time and in His way, He will do it. He has promised that He will. I know He will. Just trust in Him and let it all go.

Some scriptures to consider:

"I, the Lord, am bound [to bless you] when ye do what I say..." (D&C 82:10).

"And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith" (Ether 12:6).

"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it" (Rom. 8:24-25).

Lastly, may I suggest you read Psalms? Start from the beginning and read to the end. It is an undertaking, for sure, but you will find a kindred spirit within Psalms, which can do much to act as a balm to heal you. I quote a portion below:

"How long wilt thou forget me, O Lord? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me? How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart daily...Consider and ahear me, O Lord my God...(Ps. 13).

"Wait on the Lord: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the Lord" (Ps 27:14).

Kind Regards,

Finrock

[MisterT]

As so many other people before have stated and it's been told before that people feel the spirit in different ways, I'm not sure if I've felt the spirit because I don't know how the spirit comes to me, if it's ever come to me at all.

Join the club! I have a hard time remembering any occasion where I've felt 'the spirit,' even though I know that I did at one point. Memory simply fades after a time, especially if, as in my case, if you were living unworthily for some period.

How can I attend the Temple if I don't feel like I'm worthy enough to go? I may have a temporary recommend but I still feel like I shouldn't be going there when I couldn't answer all the questions truthfully.

You're NOT worthy to enter the Temple. Nobody is. The best we can do is to live worthily. That is all that has been asked of us, and all that is expected. No living man, save Christ, is truly worthy, as in being without sin, to enter the House of the Lord.

The branch is actually back in my hometown, I am actually now living in one of the most major cities of the country. I do have a calling, I'm a relief society teacher.

Good for you! Use your calling to fill your life with good people and works. You'll find satisfaction and contentment in that. Do it selfishly and you'll bless the lives of others as a by-product, and that blessing of others lives will cause your life to be blessed as well.

I'm confused, you say you cannot doubt, but you still doubt with other things, do you mind me asking for an example?

I doubt all the time; but fortunately I have a Priesthood authority that I can speak with not only as my local authority, but as a friend, and because of that I can ask questions that I would otherwise feel too uncomfortable to bring up.

I never knew this, or if I had been taught it I have since forgotten it, that is a big help right there the fact that prophets have been searching for years, I supose I just worry because I was born into the church and have been living it's principles since then and I'm still struggling?

My humble opinion is that the very vast majority of members who were born into the church struggle throughout their lives to achieve a true testimony; whereas those who convert tend to have very strong one's due to their desire to convert. I myself, while having been born into the church, did not feel.. truly converted until quite recently. I lived the principals of the church to the best of my ability at times, and not so well at others, but I obeyed because of habit and repetition, and not because I truly wanted to obey and live the laws set forth by the Father.

The aptly named "Plan of Happiness" is something I wish I had really believed in and conformed to earlier in my life; I'm sure I would be happier now, and with many fewer sorrows.

I'm not sure what it was that caused it or what I lost faith in? As I said, I moved away from my family, there was no one here with me, I had no relatives no close friends nothing, just someone who continually goes on about my life unoticed an uncared for besides my family, only... they are on the other side of the country, I guess that impacted on me quite a bit, I never really thought of how big an impact it was, I always thought I was quite indipendent, but I was wrong.

The first time I was "away" from my family and everyone I knew was when I enlisted into the Army at 17; I was sent 2,000 miles away from anyone I knew, put into a very stressful situation with hundreds of people of varying backgrounds and social philosophies, and forced to live in a very violent and corporeal way.

I was conflicted by my desire to conform to how my family would have liked me to behave, and the depraved behaviours tolerated and almost expected in the Armed Services. I discovered that it was completely normal and practically encouraged for guys who were under the age of consent to consume alcohol, tobacco, and engage in sexual intercourse. If you didn't do those things, you were treated.. differently.. and it wasn't comfortable to be the outsider.

I was lonely, more lonely than I had ever been before, and I substituted the pleasure of the flesh for true happiness; something I'll regret for the rest of my life. From the point of having abandoned what I was taught to be right, and engaging in bad behaviour, I was never truly happy. I have a hard time looking at myself in the mirror without remembering all the bad things I've done in my life; and its especially hard when those things are accepted and encouraged by secular society.

My only advice is to build up a support group where you are, filled with people who won't encourage you to slip into wicked behaviours and practices; but whom will help to uplift you spiritually and temporally, who will be friends who won't try and tempt you into sin, but whom will provide you with opportunity to serve others; service without compensation being the truest form of happiness, even if it doesn't seem like it at the time.

I had to ask for lifts every week to church, and I felt like a burden, no one would ever offer, they knew I had no other way of getting to church, but no one would bother. I felt like the outcast... I still do in a way even though I don't have to ask for lifts anymore as I now have my own car here.

Sometimes it is a burden to give a lift to someone, especially if its out of the way. But its in that burden that service is performed; whether they want to do it out of love and charity, or they grudgingly do it out of obligation. Regardless as to why they did it, they did, and they were blessed for doing so.

Although I will say that its very.. liberating to have one's one transportation. I personally would rather walk somewhere than burden someone for a lift, but then again I'm just phenomenally stubborn and prideful; not the attitudes that the Prophets have counselled us to have. I've been cautioned about my desire not to burden others with my problems by my Bishop; it is his opinion as my Priesthood authority, that I'm denying others blessings that are rightfully theirs by not allowing them to help me when I need it. I guess I need to get over my pride and selfishness and allow others to occasionally serve me, both for their good and mine.

Is it normal to go on doing something just because?

Yes, its normal. I do somethings just because I know they're the right things to do, even though I have no strong feelings about them one way or the other.

I don't know what I believe and cling to church so much because I want this Temple marriage so much? I don't understand it, but besides that fact how can I have a temple marriage is I can't even believe in the things that lead up to it, no one is going to want to marry someone for eternity if they aren't a strong member are they? Anyway that's just one of the examples I have.

Obviously you do have a testimony of the gospel if you want a Temple Marriage. If you didn't, you wouldn't have any belief that a Temple marriage would lead to an eternal companion. So, I think you've answered your own questions. You do have a testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel, of the power of the Eternal Ordinances of the Temple, and of the righteousness of marrying for eternity. Otherwise you'd question whether or not the ordinances performed in the Temple were real instead of make-believe.

I think you have a very strong testimony and belief; you simply haven't been presented with the opportunity through adversity to discover the depths of your beliefs. One day you will, and when that happens, all doubt will disappear, and you will be filled with the Holy Ghost who will testify to you that all you have prepared for in your life, and how worthily you've lived your life, was the right thing to do.

Until then, lean on the testimonies of your fellow church members; let them uplift you and serve you, because one day it will be your turn, and you'll do well.

[Hemidakota]

To sum it up into two words, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is "applying [faith] and action [works]"

[MisterT]

.. Yes I had to ask for lifts every week and then sunday's was the only contact I've had, but I did have people talk to me at church, granted I know hardly anyone in my ward and I've been there nearly 3 years...

I think you're a little shy. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm shy in my personal life (and a juggernaut in my professional life) because I'm terrified of personal rejection. I can lose a million dollars in a business deal and not feel like a puppydog who got kicked for peeing on the floor; but let someone disappoint me slightly in my personal life and I feel absolutely terrible.

Becaue of my natural inclination to mind my own personal business and not burden others with my presence uninvited, my Bishop has given me what he has termed a 'calling.' Every Sunday he has asked me to watch from the doors until people are sitting and waiting for the service to start, and to see who is sitting alone; I am then to find one of those people whom I haven't met before and go introduce myself and ask if I can sit with them.

It was very difficult for me to do the first few times; I felt really weird about it. But surprisingly I found out that I wasn't the only extremely lonely person there, and that simple thing opens the floodgates of friendship.

On Sunday, just go introduce yourself to someone you don't know. Just shake hands. In a few weeks you'll start having conversations and you'll find yourself with a lot of new friends. I challenge you to do this, both as a Priesthood holder, and as your Brother in the Church.

My RS president has become a good friend of mine and the YSA group is pretty friendly now, but I still feel out of the loop with them. As with the rides at least I'd get to talk to them, now because I have my own car they all assume I can just make it to things and don't really bother with me all that much, they forget I have no idea where different parts of the city are etc etc.

I would challenge you to actively seek someone to give a lift to. Ask your Relief Society President if she knows of anyone who could use a lift, and if she doesn't, ask your Bishop. Do what you wished others had done for you. Be there for someone like me who is too prideful to ask for a lift, and you'll be blessed for your charity and kindness of heart. "Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above Rubies." Prov 31-10

I feel more included within the ward a bit, but I still feel alone, even with my sister now living with me. Thankyou for your prayers though, I hate feeling this way.

You're just very very lonely. I am too. And so are many of the people in your ward. Some of them are struggling with addictions to alcohol and drugs, some struggle with keeping the Law of Chastity. Some have mental illnesses and physical infirmities. Some people are stagnated in their obeisance to and understanding of the gospel; some are sliding back towards sin, and some who have slid to the bottom are picking themselves up by their bootstraps (99% of the time with the assistance of a caring member like yourself) and making progress towards becoming true disciples of Christ.

Be that person you wish you had come to you in your lowest times; be that person for someone you've never met. Give to them of your time and company, allow them to unburden themselves on you without judgement. Be that Virtuous Woman who is more valuable than any precious stone; and I say to you, insomuch as you do this, you will find the depth of your testimony, and in finding it, you will be blessed with an eternal companion.

That's what I've been trying to do, for example me telling myself just to believe etc, I've been trying to live like this. As for the temple, I still feel unworthy to use to temporary one that I have, I feel like I'm cheating the system and that I shouldn't be allowed to walk into the sacred building.

Nobody on this earth is worthy to enter into the House of the Lord; but in living a worthy life we are permitted entrance, despite our failings. That you feel unworthy is proof that you're striving to live a worthy life and that you are aware of your shortcomings.