8: The Mormon Proposition

[Guest The_Doctor]

8: The Mormon Proposition trailers and video clips on Yahoo! Movies

I'm not so annoyed that people have an issue that we disagree with gay marriage, but I am annoyed that they forget that we weren't the only group that was against it!

[Moksha]

I know this film is not going to shown in my neighborhood. That should keep us safe.

[Guest mysticmorini]

i cant imagine a film like this being shown in any neighborhood except maybe san francisco. every time an anti-mormon film comes out it does extremely poor at the box office.

[ADoyle90815]

I think this film won't do well at the box office, even in "sinful, liberal" Hollywood and other areas with a large gay population. Those who might be interested in that film for being "anti-Mormon" are also those who supported Prop 8 and other laws, so they're not likely to see it.

[Nikkie85]

I honestly dont care who sees it...I didn't watch the video you posted but I am proud to be against gay marriage so I don't really care who knows.

[GaySaint]

I wasn’t sure how I was going to respond (if at all) to this post, but Nikkie pushed me over the edge :). So I thought about how I could respond in a way that would be insightful. Here is what I finally settled on.

I’m friends with the church lobbyist who was literally responsible for the work of the church during prop 8 in California. I find him to be an amazingly kind man, and was actually quite surprised to hear his own views on gay marriage.

I have also been able to ask him a lot of questions surrounding circumstances, facts, and myths surrounding proposition 8. While I haven’t gotten his opinion on this movie (and I don’t know if he has seen it), what I can say is that a lot of what Reed presents in the film is fact.

But there is no doubt that Reed has his own bone to pick with the church – and so there may be some places where facts are presented in a way that could have been more… tactful. I’ll have to withhold judgment until I see the movie myself (which opens at the Tower Theatre in Salt Lake City in June, according to the movie’s website).

What I can is what the lobbyist told me that affected me the most. On January 11, 2009 he told me that he wished the church had handled things differently. He and I agreed that the church probably could have avoided a lot of backlash if it were perceived to be operating more openly, with more compassion, instead of secretively. Then he said something that hit very close to home. He said, “There are people on both sides of the issue that are so far one way or the other that we will never reach them. There will always be the gay militants, who hate and will try to destroy the church. There will always be the LDS militants, who hate and will try to destroy homosexual people. But I believe there are more than enough of us in the middle, who will listen with love, compassion, understanding, reason, and the spirit. We can build bridges with these people.”

Together we started a group of LDS and LGBT people, and started building bridges. That group, I was told, had a direct connection with the church’s endorsement of the anti-discrimination ordinances in Salt Lake. Recently we learned that one member of our group has been selected to review all of the future church press releases in regards to homosexuality, to screen them for wording that a gay family may find offensive when the church isn’t meaning to be offensive. This is HUGE.

It always surprises me when members of the church don’t see the church’s involvement in proposition 8 – and therefore don’t understand why the gay community retaliated and protested. Luckily there are those, like this lobbyist, who can see that mistakes were made, on both sides, and who are willing to sit down, understand, love, and unite this very fractured relationship.

[RanMan]

The clip definately shows a strong anti-LDS bias for the film. It depicts the gay community as victims and the LDS Church as hate-mongers. Why bother to see it, the message is clear from the preview.

[Saguaro]

Here's a pretty good review of the movie.

Faith-Promoting Rumor Review: 8: The Mormon Proposition

[RanMan]

Interesting reveiw. I think it adequately points out the anti-LDS bias that I noticed. As such, I don't see much value in this film. It's propaganda. I'm not opposed to opening the eyes of LDS to better treatment of the gay community. I just don't see any value in watching something that is dishonest in its presentation.

If the film maker is so opposed to hate, why is it acceptable to employ it against the LDS?

:)

[Hemidakota]

But I am annoyed that they forget that we weren't the only group that was against it!

This was a small thing to be involve with but wait in the near future when the church begins to cry out repentance or 'foul' to the masses and call an 'apple an apple.' What will the telestial spirits be saying then?

[Moksha]

Here's a pretty good review of the movie.

Faith-Promoting Rumor Review: 8: The Mormon Proposition

Thanks for posting this. Gives a bit of background.

[SLC2002GOLD]

I wasn’t sure how I was going to respond (if at all) to this post, but Nikkie pushed me over the edge :). So I thought about how I could respond in a way that would be insightful. Here is what I finally settled on.

I’m friends with the church lobbyist who was literally responsible for the work of the church during prop 8 in California. I find him to be an amazingly kind man, and was actually quite surprised to hear his own views on gay marriage.

I have also been able to ask him a lot of questions surrounding circumstances, facts, and myths surrounding proposition 8. While I haven’t gotten his opinion on this movie (and I don’t know if he has seen it), what I can say is that a lot of what Reed presents in the film is fact.

But there is no doubt that Reed has his own bone to pick with the church – and so there may be some places where facts are presented in a way that could have been more… tactful. I’ll have to withhold judgment until I see the movie myself (which opens at the Tower Theatre in Salt Lake City in June, according to the movie’s website).

What I can is what the lobbyist told me that affected me the most. On January 11, 2009 he told me that he wished the church had handled things differently. He and I agreed that the church probably could have avoided a lot of backlash if it were perceived to be operating more openly, with more compassion, instead of secretively. Then he said something that hit very close to home. He said, “There are people on both sides of the issue that are so far one way or the other that we will never reach them. There will always be the gay militants, who hate and will try to destroy the church. There will always be the LDS militants, who hate and will try to destroy homosexual people. But I believe there are more than enough of us in the middle, who will listen with love, compassion, understanding, reason, and the spirit. We can build bridges with these people.”

Together we started a group of LDS and LGBT people, and started building bridges. That group, I was told, had a direct connection with the church’s endorsement of the anti-discrimination ordinances in Salt Lake. Recently we learned that one member of our group has been selected to review all of the future church press releases in regards to homosexuality, to screen them for wording that a gay family may find offensive when the church isn’t meaning to be offensive. This is HUGE.

It always surprises me when members of the church don’t see the church’s involvement in proposition 8 – and therefore don’t understand why the gay community retaliated and protested. Luckily there are those, like this lobbyist, who can see that mistakes were made, on both sides, and who are willing to sit down, understand, love, and unite this very fractured relationship.

Oh...So when the Gay Mobs barracaded Santa Monica Blvd, screaming "KILL THE MORMONS...KILL THE MORMONS"...That was OK?

Edited May 20, 2010 by SLC2002GOLD

[SLC2002GOLD]

The clip definately shows a strong anti-LDS bias for the film. It depicts the gay community as victims and the LDS Church as hate-mongers. Why bother to see it, the message is clear from the preview.

Oh yeah...This ranks right up there with that celluloid filth called I think "September Dawn"?

[Just_A_Guy]

. . . screaming "KILL THE MORMONS...KILL THE MORMONS". . .

Reference, please?

[GaySaint]

My KIND? Wow. Here I thought we were all children of God.

Oh... just noticed you edited. Ok. That's a bit better.

Still, I have never heard of such a thing taking place. Protests? Yes. Calling for the extermination of Mormons? No. Where did you hear this? Can you point to some news coverage, youtube video, etc. showing what you claim?

I have heard a lot of angry gay people comment online, and in newspapers - certainly some colorful language (almost as colorful as America Forever uses toward gay people). But I have never heard a gay person call for the extermination of the life of a member of the church.

I would be very upset to find out the accusation was true, but even more upset to learn you fabricated it to spread fear and mistrust.

[SLC2002GOLD]

Reference, please?

Feel free to go to YouTube...It was all over there as it occurred....I was working at the Temple that Thursday, we needed a police escort to get to the Freeway...

[SLC2002GOLD]

My KIND? Wow. Here I thought we were all children of God.

Oh... just noticed you edited. Ok. That's a bit better.

Still, I have never heard of such a thing taking place. Protests? Yes. Calling for the extermination of Mormons? No. Where did you hear this? Can you point to some news coverage, youtube video, etc. showing what you claim?

I have heard a lot of angry gay people comment online, and in newspapers - certainly some colorful language (almost as colorful as America Forever uses toward gay people). But I have never heard a gay person call for the extermination of the life of a member of the church.

I would be very upset to find out the accusation was true, but even more upset to learn you fabricated it to spread fear and mistrust.

I'm not going to parse this with you...You probably will even deny that many in the Gay Community blamed African Americans for the passage of Proposition 8 because "They weren't smart enough to know what they were voting for"...

I suspect that I know the "Church Lobbyist" that you're claiming to be buddy buddy with, I also suspect his version of events are different.

Make no mistake about it, no member of the Church who holds public office has ever been counseled by SLC or any Church leadership to oppose "Civil Unions"...So the Church deciding to support Ralph Becker's legislative move is hardly shocking. No member of the Church during Prop 8, or before that Prop 22 or Prop 1 in Maine was ever urged or counselled to "Gay Bash". I find it remarkable...no actually I don't, that you would cry crocodile tears over Latter Day Saints using their right to vote...but yet you sit silent over the filth we as Latter Day Saints have had to endure at the hands of the Gay Mobs.

Here's a few pointers for you. Proposition 8 carried LA, Orange and SD Counties...California is now a Majority/Minority state...The browner California gets the less chance you'll ever marry in the Golden State. The Supreme Court upheld Prop 8, the Gay Mobs raised millions to qualify a measure to reverse Prop 8...YOU FAILED.

You wanna repeal Prop 8...then repeal DOMA...The WH, Senate an House are controlled lock step by a party who's platform calls for repeal of DOMA...Your own President supports the repeal of DOMA...Instead of damning the LDS Church by faint praise, why not as your President to keep his word????...OH...I forgot, he also campaigned on repealing "Don't Ask...Don't Tell"...but whimped on that too.

As David Mixner quipped to me at a social event..."Whaddya gonna do"

I just sent an email to a few associates I worked with on this matter, to see if they have any youtube links for the out of state doubting Thomas'...I'll see what I get back.

[FunkyTown]

SLC? D'you think maybe you can dial down the vitriol?

It's not appropriate and not necessary and regardless of what you heard the other side did, it doesn't tar all people with the same brush.

[Hemidakota]

Well said Funky...

[FunkyTown]

Well said Funky...

Heheh. Thanks, Hemi.

[GaySaint]

Thank you all for the support. SLC: I would appreciate the links if you happen to get them back - seriously. I also sent a few emails to two friends I have in the OC who attended the LA temple protest (one of whom I served a mission with).

I am not here to debate politics, or the merits of proposition 8 with you or anyone else - but I do want to say this: I do not believe in any use of violence to solve a problem. If gay radicals used violence, I would be, and have been, quick to condemn. That is not how the majority of us choose to act.

As the lobbyist said: There will always be those on the far ends of the spectrum whose hearts cannot be softened and who will not converse with, have love toward, or understanding for the other side. My heart goes out to those people...

PS: SLC: If you do know this church lobbyist (the one who the church spent the money on that they reported for flights and hotels, and who headed the prop 8 lobby efforts in California), you should talk to him about the meetings we have. You might even be so inspired to come. Or, I could get you info for the next meeting if you'd like, and you can talk with him there.

Edited May 20, 2010 by GaySaint

[SLC2002GOLD]

SLC? D'you think maybe you can dial down the vitriol?

It's not appropriate and not necessary and regardless of what you heard the other side did, it doesn't tar all people with the same brush.

Oh Please...

[SLC2002GOLD]

Thank you all for the support. SLC: I would appreciate the links if you happen to get them back - seriously. I also sent a few emails to two friends I have in the OC who attended the LA temple protest (one of whom I served a mission with).

I am not here to debate politics, or the merits of proposition 8 with you or anyone else - but I do want to say this: I do not believe in any use of violence to solve a problem. If gay radicals used violence, I would be, and have been, quick to condemn. That is not how the majority of us choose to act.

As the lobbyist said: There will always be those on the far ends of the spectrum whose hearts cannot be softened and who will not converse with, have love toward, or understanding for the other side. My heart goes out to those people...

PS: SLC: If you do know this church lobbyist (the one who the church spent the money on that they reported for flights and hotels, and who headed the prop 8 lobby efforts in California), you should talk to him about the meetings we have. You might even be so inspired to come. Or, I could get you info for the next meeting if you'd like, and you can talk with him there.

Saint...Let me first start off by saying, you've already called me a liar in your first post. You have been intellectually dishonest with me from jump street.

You are here to argue politics, you are here to foist the Gay Agenda onto others, that's what the Gay Agenda is all about. Your side is like the old Billy Idol MTW commercial...You want your MTV and you want it now.

I have spent cumulatively about 4 years of my life on this issue. First with Proposition 22, then Proposition 8. I am a Native Californian, with ancestors who were on the Brooklyn when it sailed into Yerba Buena. Having said that, I was right in the middle of this battle. Often debating more with my colleagues than the "enemy". Saint, I stood on the grounds of the Temple as the Gay Mobs surrounded us. As I looked out what I saw resembled the mobs who invaded Nauvoo. Today's Gay Agenda, such as it was in the aftermath of Proposition 8 are simply yesterdays Nauvoo Mobs.

So you know, My issue isn't about your life style. The Mayor and 2 members of the West Hollywood Council on in my speed dial on my iPhone. I have 2 gay business partners and one "Queer"business partner(his choice of words...trust me, this is not a guy I'd want to meet in a darkened parking lot) All three know intimately about my religion and politics. Marriage is between one man and one woman...at least for the time being (Sec132 might one day come back into play) If you are LDS, then you know through the Proclamation on the Family that marriage between males and females is an eternal institute. I suspect this battle has been played out on other planets that have come before and will no doubt occur on other planets yet to come.

Let me share this with you. I knew both Harvey Milk and John Briggs...Now I found Milk to be a revolting little troll, where ever Milk is, he should be grateful that Sean Penn portrayed him, cause he did a great job.(I also have a DVD of Milk in my collection) I was approached as a leader in the YR's by John Briggs to support his initiative to ban Gay's from education. I declined to participate. I have had at least 4 openly gay teachers in my lifetime. All of them were excellent...no beyond excellent teachers. Not one ever molested me or any other student to the best of my knowledge. One happened to have been the nephew of Patricia Neal, who at the time was married to Roald Dahl. He got Dahl to come into our 6th grade class and read us Charlie and and Chocolate Factory.

I realize that my opinion and view point are probably one of a kind here at this site. I find it telling that I rarely see anyone defending our Prophet or Church in this controversy?

I am grateful for the leadership of of my Church in this issue. Could we have operated differently...possibly. Could the Prophet Joseph have done it better by not destroying the Expositor's printing presses...possibly. Alas, hindsight is 20/20...In these end days, the battle comes down to Morality and Immorality...The gay mobs who surrounded the Temples of the Lord...Yes plural cause the attacked LA, Oakland and SD, are simply Satan's SS in the coming battle.

Saint, let me close by saying I don't hate you as an individual, I don't even know you. You are a child of God and as such have the agency to run your own life. What I don't and won't accept is the agenda of the lifestyle you've chosen to lead. I wholly support President Boyd K. Packer's view of homosexuality and feminism in the Church.

Having said that, understand that my comments are directed at your agenda, not at you...I've never been a fan of killing the messenger cause I don't like the message.

[FunkyTown]

Saint, I stood on the grounds of the Temple as the Gay Mobs surrounded us.

Why do I imagine you seeing yourself as a modern day David vs a Goliath that wears bumless chaps and sings 'Defying Gravity' lustily before swinging his battle axe?

[Just_A_Guy]

Feel free to go to YouTube...It was all over there as it occurred....I was working at the Temple that Thursday, we needed a police escort to get to the Freeway...

With all due respect, I habitually refuse other people's requests that I substantiate their assertions for them.