ward implications of breast implants

[crazypotato]

Faith and opinions are very personal, so I'm not sure what this site would be with out people getting personal. Would be rather dull and dry.

It's one thing to share faith and personal stories, and another to have people take your stories of faith, etc., copy and paste them into a reply, and directly pick apart everything that you shared as wrong and here is why.

For example, a lady posts that her feelings were hurt that people saved seats in Sacrament Meeting and turned her away. People either support her or not, but she gets judged as oversensitive, told to get over it, and people that agree with her are told that they are making too much of it too. So her feelings are picked apart by a bunch of strangers. not in the most kind manner, and then the people who agree and disagree start judging each other as oversensitive or rude.

The breast implant post - OP has good intentions of sociological impacts on wards. But all the people who have had implants or wives or whatever, get judged and picked apart on a personal level, and those that agree with the moderator are judged as petty, self-righteous, overly judgmental people. Who is helped by the conversation? Who is hurt? Do we really want to make each other think that our values are so different that we have to pick each other apart? It always, always goes both ways on these kinds of threads.

I even tried to make light, stupid jokes on the seat saving thread and was told to stop joking and get serious. I roll my eyes heavily. People start asking each other to stop posting in some of the threads.

Does Heavenly Father want us to do these things to each other? When we discuss stuff at church, there is a different feeling of reverence. If a topic goes on too long or gets even close to rude, the discussion is stopped (hopefully) because we know that the Holy Ghost is our teacher, not each other, and we have to have the Holy Ghost in church or we will not be taught.

In a perfect world, people could share their personal anecdotes without being judged or picked apart, but I don't see it happening here. I believe most people are well meaning in how they lead their lives, but why do we need to comment on personal stuff to each other?

[pam]

No criticism was meant. My point was not to criticize the moderators, but all of us posters for getting personal with each other, and then I added that moderators probably do not want to be hyper about shutting threads down.

Perhaps you misunderstand me. While some wouldn't think of doing it publically, they don't mind sending pm's back and forth criticizing moderators.

[Soulsearcher]

It's one thing to share faith and personal stories, and another to have people take your stories of faith, etc., copy and paste them into a reply, and directly pick apart everything that you shared as wrong and here is why.

For example, a lady posts that her feelings were hurt that people saved seats in Sacrament Meeting and turned her away. People either support her or not, but she gets judged as oversensitive, told to get over it, and people that agree with her are told that they are making too much of it too. So her feelings are picked apart by a bunch of strangers. not in the most kind manner, and then the people who agree and disagree start judging each other as oversensitive or rude.

The breast implant post - OP has good intentions of sociological impacts on wards. But all the people who have had implants or wives or whatever, get judged and picked apart on a personal level, and those that agree with the moderator are judged as petty, self-righteous, overly judgmental people. Who is helped by the conversation? Who is hurt? Do we really want to make each other think that our values are so different that we have to pick each other apart? It always, always goes both ways on these kinds of threads.

I even tried to make light, stupid jokes on the seat saving thread and was told to stop joking and get serious. I roll my eyes heavily. People start asking each other to stop posting in some of the threads.

Does Heavenly Father want us to do these things to each other? When we discuss stuff at church, there is a different feeling of reverence. If a topic goes on too long or gets even close to rude, the discussion is stopped (hopefully) because we know that the Holy Ghost is our teacher, not each other, and we have to have the Holy Ghost in church or we will not be taught.

In a perfect world, people could share their personal anecdotes without being judged or picked apart, but I don't see it happening here. I believe most people are well meaning in how they lead their lives, but why do we need to comment on personal stuff to each other?

So someone tells you a personal story about themselves and their interactions and you accept it and never go against it? You never possibly make a less that kind or understanding comment towards what they've said, or question it's validity? Rude is a very subjective term what one person considers rude, another considers the gospel truth, reality tends to be in between.

[crazypotato]

So someone tells you a personal story about themselves and their interactions and you accept it and never go against it? You never possibly make a less that kind or understanding comment towards what they've said, or question it's validity? Rude is a very subjective term what one person considers rude, another considers the gospel truth, reality tends to be in between.

I'm not saying that I am a peach and everyone else isn't. It is all so subjective but my point is, is it helpful to judge and pick each other apart?

[Soulsearcher]

I'm not saying that I am a peach and everyone else isn't. It is all so subjective but my point is, is it helpful to judge and pick each other apart?

Good question, what have you got out of it and was it helpful?

[crazypotato]

What I got out of this thread, for example, is that sharing personal stories on the internet is like opening a door for you to be judged and criticized, when it is not our jobs to do so.

Also, if someone has the "wrong" opinion in your opinion, disagreeing gets you judged as self-righteous and judgmental. It's like the circle of hell.

But at least the emoticons are cool.

[Soulsearcher]

What I got out of this thread, for example, is that sharing personal stories on the internet is like opening a door for you to be judged and criticized, when it is not our jobs to do so.

Also, if someone has the "wrong" opinion in your opinion, disagreeing gets you judged as self-righteous and judgmental. It's like the circle of hell.

But at least the emoticons are cool.

You've seen the error of your ways and grown, that's a good thing. Lessons like that are hard to learn but they do pay off in the long run. I'm proud of you. No sarcasm, completely serious.

[crazypotato]

You've seen the error of your ways and grown, that's a good thing. Lessons like that are hard to learn but they do pay off in the long run. I'm proud of you. No sarcasm, completely serious.

Oh stop it, you self-righteous, judgmental . . .:)

[Tarnished]

I'm not saying that I am a peach and everyone else isn't.

I thought you were a potato!

[UrbanFool]

It would be a non-issue because teeth does not equal sex in the USA.

Speak for yourself!

[Elgama]

It would be a non-issue because teeth does not equal sex in the USA.

Never watch the CSI with the dentist that bites?

[Suzie]

What I got out of this thread, for example, is that sharing personal stories on the internet is like opening a door for you to be judged and criticized, when it is not our jobs to do so.

Crazypotato, I think in a lot of threads you seem to share the same opinion. This is a forum where people share their views (positive and negative ones), I think most people know that so when a person chooses to post personal stories they should also expect that not everyone is going to sympathize with their story, not so?. That's human nature. :) The thing is if a person do not sympathize with whatever story, then they are judgmental and harsh.

Geez, all these emotional stuff of judging, getting my feelings hurt and being offended are almost in every thread. It's getting old. It would be nice for a change just to focus on the topic. :)

[crazypotato]

Crazypotato, I think in a lot of threads you seem to share the same opinion. This is a forum where people share their views (positive and negative ones), I think most people know that so when a person chooses to post personal stories they should also expect that not everyone is going to sympathize with their story, not so?. That's human nature. :) The thing is if a person do not sympathize with whatever story, then they are judgmental and harsh.

Geez, all these emotional stuff of judging, getting my feelings hurt and being offended are almost in every thread. It's getting old. It would be nice for a change just to focus on the topic. :)

Your reply was rude.

[pam]

Your reply was rude.

Rude because it's true? Seriously, how many threads do we get on this forum that talk about personal, I mean very personal subjects and then people get all upset when they aren't getting responses they want to hear.

Honestly, if you post on a public forum you should as Suzie mentioned expect to get a variety of responses.

I do remember once being mistaken for a weenie.

[beefche]

crazypotato, are you joking? It helps to use an emoticon to imply you are joking.

If you are not joking, then what was rude about that post?

[beefche]

pam, you aren't a hot dog. You are a cookie. Never doubt yourself.

[Soulsearcher]

pam, you aren't a hot dog. You are a cookie. Never doubt yourself.

That's one stale old cookie........

[pam]

Soulsearcher

Banned

I just love that Queen song. "Another One Bites the Dust"

[Soulsearcher]

Soulsearcher

Banned

I just love that Queen song. "Another One Bites the Dust"

Guess you're right, wouldn't be much more than dust left from that cookie.....

[havejoy]

Now I'm thinking about the movie, "Where Angels Fear To Tread".

[yorkiebeebs]

I think we all have to much time on our hands. God will be God and I'm not Him.

[john doe]

If I were a moderator of this site, I would be tempted to close a lot more of these threads faster than they are, but perhaps they don't want to censor people or be too controlling. I am not criticizing the moderators.

As has been pointed out many times before, if you think a post breaks site rules, click on the red-outlines triangle in the upper right corner of that post and the moderators will take a look at it in context. And yes, whining about moderators publicly is a violation of site rules. You can contact moderators individually and privately through PM.

[john doe]

What I got out of this thread, for example, is that sharing personal stories on the internet is like opening a door for you to be judged and criticized, when it is not our jobs to do so.

Also, if someone has the "wrong" opinion in your opinion, disagreeing gets you judged as self-righteous and judgmental. It's like the circle of hell.

You left out elitist and cliquish, or are those traits of those on the other side of the aisle?

[pam]

As has been pointed out many times before, if you think a post breaks site rules, click on the red-outlines triangle in the upper right corner of that post and the moderators will take a look at it in context. And yes, whining about moderators publicly is a violation of site rules. You can contact moderators individually and privately through PM.

Just to add to it:

6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules.

[dash77]

Being that there are so many replies, I have just selected a few to reply to.

I think crazy potato made two very important points. First, that a dominant cultural norm in the United States in individualism, and this ideological framework is what causes people to think about themselves and not how individual actions actually and really do affect others. Many women who get breast implants report that they feel “less than” about breast image/size and that is why they go for such surgeries. What these women do not think about – nor supporting men – is that their very actions further reinforce a societal disease of judging women by their looks. I think many women and men can rationalize away the bodies they see on TV or magazines as being related to airbrushing, digital manipulation and excessive privilege (e.g., Hollywood models who work out 8 hours a day and hire a personal chef), but there is something very powerful and disturbing when you see face to face a women who transform their bodies in your neighborer or in your church. Sadly, the advocates of breast implants do not usually think beyond themselves to see the social impact of their individualistic actions.

The other aspect that I thought crazy potato bring up is the potential hurt that occurs when people bring up personal examples. If you look back to my post on this subject and the closed on on breast implants, you will see I very rarely bring up personal issues. Rather, I rely on the teachings of General Authorities, academic theories, and research studies. Personal examples are also aligned to individualism, where a personal experience seems to be the beginning and end in thinking. Again, my suggestion is to think beyond oneself. I mean no harm when disagree with persona examples, and I, like all of us, have things I need to work on to become more Christ-like. But I would challenge others to think beyond your own personal selves – and research summaries many – some times hundreds – of personal experiences. The teaching of modern day General Authorities trump all other authorities. To this end, I would again argue that Elder Holland outlines counsel about the sexual objectification of women and cosmetic oriented breast implants clearly – without any doubt – align to his counsel of this present day danger. Furthermore, if you want to learn just how bad the sexual objectification of women are in the United States – and the many associated mental and physical health problems – read the American Psychological Association on the Sexualization of Girls at http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/girls/report-full.pdf. Although not research,

I find the following article Is cosmetic surgery a good gift for grads? - Health - Kids and parenting - msnbc.com to be interesting and helpful regarding this topic – especially about the societal norms it reinforces (quick fixes for mental health problems) and how many teenage girls are going to breast implants.

Suzie:

If this is really such a petty issue, then you do not need to interact on this thread. I think the two articles I provided links to above outline that the breast implants/body image issue is very important in society. Further, do you think Elder Holland and other church leaders would bring this issue up if it was not important. In my mind, this topic is of vital importance, not just to women who get breast implants, but more important – and what this thread is suppose to focus on – the societal/sociological influence. Please re-read Elder Holland council, the APA report and the MSN newspaper article and then try to explain how petty this topic is. And just like Loudmouth, I think you are hyper-emphasizing personal responsibility and not diminishing social awareness of how our individual actions really do affect others. Where I agree with you is on the topic of letting this thread continue.

Justaname:

In no way am I trying to attack you or am making universal judgments about you character or our wife's. You and your wife are probable very good people in general – like most members. But on this one topic, I think your actions are (most likely) detrimental to other people. There is nothing good about cosmetic oriented breast implants. On a personal level, there are so many health risks – the long term health side effects are still largely unknown. And to answer you question regarding being attractive to women with average to larger breasts (which research suggest is normative in the United States – I think its a male disease) – my suggestion is to learn to be attracted to a women's spiritual attributes (e.g., service, ethic, sense of humor, intelligence, work ethic, kindness) and simply accept her body image. I think the latter is more Christ-like. And with that said, I want to make it very clear in no way am I suggesting I am perfect, but I do try to align all my actions and thinking to the counsel of modern day prophets.

I will add also – in conclusion (not just to justaname) – that I do not think we should outcast women who get breast implants or any other person who comes to church with outward temptations or sin. Church really is a hospital for the sinners and we are all sinners. These women, despite their actions, should be loved like everyone else. However, in the past ward issue, I really see much more of the responsibility for the divide on these women (and supporting men) who got breast implants. But in the end, we are to forgive and help others. But I still maintain that breast implants create a real social problem that affects many people – both women and men, but also the young men and young men of wards.