Trying to figure out the church for myself...

[bigsis7]

For about the last two years I've been having doubts about the church. Such things like that polygamy was practiced until the year 1890, but was outlawed in the US in 1862. Also the church doesn't make you do anything, but if you do something that is not part of the church standards you're looked down upon. Like wearing skirts that are to short, dating before 16, etc. And the whole fact that Heavenly Father was the biological father of Jesus, yet Mary and Heavenly Father weren't married, but the church teaches not to have sex before marriage. Some days it's hard to believe that Joseph Smith really saw Heavenly Father and Jesus and restored the church.

I recently received my Patriarchal Blessing and it's great, but some of it seems so vague. Like everyone who receives a Patriarchal Blessing is of course told they'll be married in the temple and have children. Also that if they obey the prophet they'll be blessed, etc. So does it really, sincerely come from God or is the Patriarch more speaking from his heart and what he knows? The other day while surfing the net trying to read more about the Mormon gospel, I came across an article about being Sealed in the temple. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to post on here, but, frankly, it seems so bizarre (the ceremony). Green aprons, secret hand shakes, being touched/endowed with oil, watching a play, etc. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't understand how something so sacred could be so...different.

I'm not trying to put down the church in any way. I've been a member my whole life and really have just been expected to believe. I guess I'm just more confused about what to believe. Anyways after ranting I guess my point is I want to believe in the church, but I'm having a hard time with the doctrine and expectations. Should I read the Book of Mormon even though I'm not sure it's true? Talk to my parents that think I have a solid faith in the church? I don't want to disappoint my parents, but I don't want to continue pretending I believe in something when I'm not sure I do. Thanks for any advice you guys can give me.

[HiJolly]

For about the last two years I've been having doubts about the church. Such things like that polygamy was practiced until the year 1890, but was outlawed in the US in 1862. Also the church doesn't make you do anything, but if you do something that is not part of the church standards you're looked down upon. Like wearing skirts that are to short, dating before 16, etc. And the whole fact that Heavenly Father was the biological father of Jesus, yet Mary and Heavenly Father weren't married, but the church teaches not to have sex before marriage. Some days it's hard to believe that Joseph Smith really saw Heavenly Father and Jesus and restored the church.

I recently received my Patriarchal Blessing and it's great, but some of it seems so vague. Like everyone who receives a Patriarchal Blessing is of course told they'll be married in the temple and have children. Also that if they obey the prophet they'll be blessed, etc. So does it really, sincerely come from God or is the Patriarch more speaking from his heart and what he knows? The other day while surfing the net trying to read more about the Mormon gospel, I came across an article about being Sealed in the temple. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to post on here, but, frankly, it seems so bizarre (the ceremony). Green aprons, secret hand shakes, being touched/endowed with oil, watching a play, etc. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't understand how something so sacred could be so...different.

I'm not trying to put down the church in any way. I've been a member my whole life and really have just been expected to believe. I guess I'm just more confused about what to believe. Anyways after ranting I guess my point is I want to believe in the church, but I'm having a hard time with the doctrine and expectations. Should I read the Book of Mormon even though I'm not sure it's true? Talk to my parents that think I have a solid faith in the church? I don't want to disappoint my parents, but I don't want to continue pretending I believe in something when I'm not sure I do. Thanks for any advice you guys can give me.

I've gotta say, it's tough to tell if you're a troll

or if you're sincere.

Polygamy, for example. Utah wasn't in the United States until after 1890, so your comment about it being illegal in the US as of 1862 is totally non-applicable. What's up with that? ...and if you're going to be upset about it, what about it being a biblical practice?

There's so much more, but if you're a troll, I don't want to waste my time.

HiJolly

[Connie]

She's a 14-year-old girl, HiJolly. I think it's pretty safe to give her the benefit of the doubt. At least for now.

[bigsis7]

Sorry that I wasn't clearer. Yeah not a troll. I misunderstood the polygamy getting outlawed in 1862. It was, but according to this website the Mormons were allowed to continue it even as long as they didn't get involved in the civil war:

Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't agree with polygamy at all, but my real problem was the fact that the Mormons continued even though it was illegal. I guess it sort of makes it better that they had "permission".

[bizzlebozzle]

I think a good source for you is this website: LDS FAIR Apologetics Homepage

They answer a lot of questions with specific details. One article in particular that deals with polygamy might be a bit of a read, but you can skim through the relevant points: http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Polygamy_Prophets_and_Prevarication.pdf

As far as the other things regarding the temple, I would highly suggest that you stop watching videos, reading articles, etc. that you find on the internet about the temple ceremony. Mostly for the simple reason that people writing the articles don't always understand the implications of the ceremony, they often get it wrong, and they usually have an axe to grind against the church so they write/film things in such a way as to be inflammatory. If you want to understand more about the temple, check out Boyd K. Packer's book "The Holy Temple," and James E. Talmage's "The House of the Lord." They will not provide the "details" you'll find on the internet, but they will give context and explanation for what you have seen, or will encounter.

And finally, why do you think the church leaders advise against wearing short skirts, dating before 16, and the other issues you alluded to? What are your feelings about these topics? (No sarcasm or lecturing from me, just curious what you think).

[Matthew0059]

bigsis7-

You seem to have been reading the anti-LDS material. You mentioned surfing the internet looking for information.

First of all- everything in its proper time and place. You will learn, in time, the answer to your questions. There is nothing wrong in seeking answers on your own, but remember to go to the right sources (have you studied and prayed about the Book of Mormon yet?) and avoid the wrong sources (every anti-Mormon source has a pre-determined answer- there are no honest truth seekers among them). Avoid anything that makes you feel down and depressed- those are symptoms of falsehood.

As for Patriarchal Blessings- "vague" is in the eye of the beholder. I just learned something about myself a week ago that dramatically alters the perception I previously had of an entire paragraph in mine.

If you seek the LORD'S righteousness, you will have all your questions answered, and more. Don't give up. :)

[bigsis7]

Thanks bizzlebozzle. I guess I know why the leaders advise not to do those things, but it's hard I guess. Finding skirts or clothes that aren't even just a little bit against the teachings is hard. What makes it harder is when you look good in the clothes and like them. Dating I get to, but for me I guess it's just the fact that I'm more mature then most kids my age and realize the fact that dating during high school probably won't make a lasting relationship, but if you like someone it's a way to get to know them better. I guess you could just be friend too, but in this world today that's also hard.

Thanks Matthew. I have read some anti-mormon articles that I find absolutely ridiculous. I've also found other posts by people who are no longer part of the church that say things that make a lot of sense. I don't go looking for the bad ones, but there's more bad then good about the church on the internet it seems. I just don't know where else to find the answers I'm looking for than the internet without going to my parents, hence why I'm here. I read the whole Book of Mormon when I was 9-10, but haven't studied it as much lately since I've been trying to finish the Bible then trying to read the Book of Mormon then back to the Bible. I've moved 5-6 times since I finished the Book of Mormon so I guess that's probably why I haven't finished it again.

[Tarnished]

You seem to have been reading the anti-LDS material. You mentioned surfing the internet looking for information.

This.

A lot of the stuff you bring up are things that anti-Mormons bring up when they come to this forum, which is why HiJolly understandably thought you were a troll. You have to be getting all these anti-Mormon stuff from somewhere.

Truthfully that stuff isn't the best to be reading. It is strange but I have noticed among my ex-LDS friends that they forget things about the church very quickly. It doesn't take them too long before they start spouting things like, "One of the temple ceremonies is a huge orgy!" or other such nonsense. And the crazy thing is, they know better. They grew up with it, they knew the truth at one point and somehow they have talked themselves into forgetting a good part of it. Do you really want to be basing your beliefs on people who probably left the church because they got their feelings hurt, or some other trite reason and now have an axe to grind?

Yea, I am sure some of their arguments makes sense, guess who they have on their side? The great imitator, the great deceiver, Satan. And he can help people write a pretty convincing argument.

Not all Patriarchal Blessings say the same thing, not all of them promise the same stuff. And most of the blessing is based on what you choose to do with your life.

Regarding the temple, you really don't understand the ceremonies there until you are there and go through on your own. Looking at it as a teen who probably has not delved extremely deeply into scriptural symbolism it wouldn't make sense. It wouldn't have made sense to me when I was your age. But now it is a very wonderful experience and it makes perfect sense.

And the God and Mary thing, do you think he really had sex with her? Really? She was called a virgin for a reason. Basing the church's standards on morality on the theory that God and Mary had sex is really stretching it. Do you know for certain that is what happened? No, you can't, no one can, and that is the crux of it. You are basing your beliefs on suppositions, not on truths.

As far as being mature for your age, I was mature for my age but I still waited. The fact of the matter is, hormones don't care about maturity. Hormones don't care about age or how much maturity you may have, all hormones care about it getting you to do what you suddenly think you want to do. The truth is, people who date younger have a tendency to have sex younger. Hormones are strong things, and sometimes cause people with the most self control to bend like a piece of grass. It is best to not put yourself in a situation where you may not be able to control yourself. Trust me here, I speak from experience, hormones and emotions never took me anywhere safe if I let them lead.

I think you should start reading some LDS stuff on the things you are curious about and stop visiting the Anti sites. They aren't going to help you at all.

[Maureen]

This....

Excuse my budding in but I'm curious.....Tarnished, what does this mean when you say "This."?

M.

PS - This is post 4000!!!!!!

[UrbanFool]

Excuse my budding in but I'm curious.....Tarnished, what does this mean when you say "This."?

M.

PS - This is post 4000!!!!!!

She was referring to the text she quoted.

Congratulations!

[Tarnished]

She was referring to the text she quoted.

Congratulations!

Exactly, basically saying that the text I quoted was exactly what I had been thinking.

[applepansy]

bigsis,

I would like to suggest that as you read and study the right materials you try doubting your doubts.

Satan is the author of our doubts. Especially when we're trying to find our own testimony. Study your scriptures. Put Moroni's promise to the test. Talk with your parents and leaders.

As far as the modest clothes issue. That's as old as dirt. Every generation has immodest clothing. Its not impossible to find attractive modest clothing. Its just a choice.

Best Wishes

[Elgama]

I'm not trying to put down the church in any way. I've been a member my whole life and really have just been expected to believe. I guess I'm just more confused about what to believe. Anyways after ranting I guess my point is I want to believe in the church, but I'm having a hard time with the doctrine and expectations. Should I read the Book of Mormon even though I'm not sure it's true? Talk to my parents that think I have a solid faith in the church? I don't want to disappoint my parents, but I don't want to continue pretending I believe in something when I'm not sure I do. Thanks for any advice you guys can give me.

Forget doctrine, read your scriptures, pray really learn to talk to Heavenly Father, there is a wonderful book called Learn to Pray by Macus Braybrooke. Sit take notes in sacrament and classes. Pray afterwards about the doubts you have. What you are doing is great its what you are supposed to do. Its what Joseph Smith did at your age.

Study your bible, learn and pray then the temple and the history and the law of chastity don;t seem weird or freaky. Study other religions see how they fit in

Din't take chances with the law of chastity used properly it will give your married life a depth you will miss out on if you stuff up.

Forget everything except connecting with God. From there you decide your path

[bigsis7]

Tarnished, no I don't think he actually had sex with her. No one can know how it really happened, but I mean both of them were the parent of Jesus. They had a baby and weren't married and even if they didn't have sex it just is hard to fathom I guess.

Thanks Applepansy.

Elgama, Thank you for your post. I'll try and see if I can find that book.

Thanks guys for you help. I'll start studying the scriptures more and try to find an lds website that can answer more of my questions

Edited August 4, 2010 by bigsis7

[Elgama]

I think you are handling this in a very mature manner Heavenly Father has good reason to be proud of you. Don't feel bad about checking out the anti sites its good to know what is on them and to know how you would respond to each thing, its better to find it out and have time to investigate than to have it flung at you in real life.

I find talking about how Jesus was conceived a bit like thinking about my parents had sex. Basically we don't know how he was conceived exactly. Or any of the mechanics, maybe Heavenly Father is married to Mary for eternity and Joseph for time only or maybe... or maybe... lol once you have the testimony part sorted you begin to realise most things have possible answers.

[Wingnut]

FSuch things like that polygamy was practiced until the year 1890, but was outlawed in the US in 1862.

The Saints arrived in Utah in 1847. Utah was part of Mexican sovereign territory at that time. Utah was admitted to the Union on January 4, 1896. The official declaration discontinuing the practice is dated September 24, 1890.

Also the church doesn't make you do anything, but if you do something that is not part of the church standards you're looked down upon. Like wearing skirts that are to short, dating before 16, etc.

This is a matter of obedience. You make a choice to obey or not. People react to that, whether they should or not, and that's kind-of how life is.

And the whole fact that Heavenly Father was the biological father of Jesus, yet Mary and Heavenly Father weren't married, but the church teaches not to have sex before marriage.

The Church also doesn't teach that Heavenly Father and Mary had sex. You're assuming.

I recently received my Patriarchal Blessing and it's great, but some of it seems so vague. Like everyone who receives a Patriarchal Blessing is of course told they'll be married in the temple and have children. Also that if they obey the prophet they'll be blessed, etc.

Why wouldn't this be the case for those who are obedient and faithful?

So does it really, sincerely come from God or is the Patriarch more speaking from his heart and what he knows?

Patriarchal blessings are relatively generic. It's true. When you first get yours, it may seem a little daunting, yet at the same time, unimpressive. As you grow and continue to re-read it, different parts may have specific meanings to you at different times in your life. I recently saw (and am currently in the midst of) the fulfillment of one particular line in my blessing.

The other day while surfing the net trying to read more about the Mormon gospel, I came across an article about being Sealed in the temple. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to post on here, but, frankly, it seems so bizarre (the ceremony). Green aprons, secret hand shakes, being touched/endowed with oil, watching a play, etc. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't understand how something so sacred could be so...different.

What's wrong with different? Seriously though, it's probably best if you not read things online that include details about temple ceremonies. The temple ceremony (and the robes that are part of it) are sacred, meant to be viewed and understood only by those who are worthy and prepared to receive them. Much of what you read probably wasn't about the sealing ordinance itself. In the temple we do baptisms and confirmations for the dead, but we also do washings and anointings, endowments, and sealings -- three separate ordinances. What you read about sounds like it pulled from all three of these.

Side note: I believe that the Salt Lake City temple is the only one that still does a live endowment with actors. Most temples (all others, I believe -- perhaps not Los Angeles) play a movie. It's intended to be allegorical. It's about the Creation and the Fall, and it's a teaching tool.

Anyways after ranting I guess my point is I want to believe in the church, but I'm having a hard time with the doctrine and expectations. Should I read the Book of Mormon even though I'm not sure it's true?

Some of your concerns are doctrines. Some are practices. Some are rumors. Some are simple human behavior. You should absolutely read the Book of Mormon. For one thing, how will you know if it's true without reading it? No one gains a testimony of its truthfulness by looking at it sitting on a shelf. Secondly, you need to learn the real doctrines, not what you find online. Where better to learn them than directly from the Scriptures?

Talk to my parents that think I have a solid faith in the church? I don't want to disappoint my parents, but I don't want to continue pretending I believe in something when I'm not sure I do.

Hopefully your parents are smart enough to know that at 14 years old, you don't have "a solid faith" in the Church, but that you're at the age where you might be questioning as you struggle to find your own testimony. They know that you can't lean on their faith forever, or that of your bishop or young women leaders. They had to find their own testimonies once upon a time, and they will be happy to know that you are honestly and earnestly seeking to do the same.

[bigsis7]

Thanks Wingnut for your detailed response. I started the Book of Mormon again yesterday and will continue to study it and learn.

[pam]

Side note: I believe that the Salt Lake City temple is the only one that still does a live endowment with actors. Most temples (all others, I believe -- perhaps not Los Angeles) play a movie. It's intended to be allegorical. It's about the Creation and the Fall, and it's a teaching tool.

Last I heard Manti still did live sessions..at least when my parents were temple workers there about 6 years ago.