A Few Questions from a non-lds

[extra_mile]

No serious reader of John 17 can belive in the traditional Trinity, or at least have questions or doubts.

Here just some high-lights (from a Trinity perspective):

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The Father is the only true God, and that only true God sent Jesus Christ. Can one send themselves? Wouldn't the one part already know and just agree to go and do with no "sending?"

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

The Father gave the Son something to do while on earth that would glorify Him. How could He give Himself something to do, and how can He glorify Himself by accomplishing a work on earth?

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

How can the same being have more or less glory as another part of himself? Aren't they the same?

Then comes the crystal clear descriptions of how the Father and Son are one. Read all of them. They cannot be mistaken or misunderstood. They are repeated over and over. In my opinion, anyone who believes the Father and Son are the same being after seriously reading John 17 either misunderstands or isn't giving it enough logical thought. You have to let your belief drive you beyond the clear intent of these passages in order to misunderstand them.

Everyone does this when reading scripture. We have to be careful when we do it. It doesn't always work and may lead us to false conclusions.

Latter-Day Saints believe in the Father and Son of John 17.

Nice! Very well put!

[RanMan]

I tell them that I am a follower of Chrsit and in my opinion that is what makes a person a Christian.

:)

[zippy_do46]

Sad, that lines get drawn over this. I know right now one of the biggest sayings that some Christians say is, "What would Jesus do? Yet, so many are quick to judge a man not by his actions as a man, but by the words others call him.

[Still_Small_Voice]

Yea, I run across so many "Christians" That are so hard against LDS and others, it's crazy. They seem to have already made up their minds already? Because of the bad stuff they hear, without checking it out?

Are not Christians supposed to love their brothers and sisters and want to win souls to Christ? I want to win souls to my Lord Jesus Christ. I do not want to dislike others because they have different beliefs. By this shall all men know ye are my disciples if ye have love one to another.

[HoosierGuy]

See i find this question funny because when i asked this last week in chat i had two members take exception with being referred to as being Christians. They wanted nothing to do with the term Christian.

Yep. "We are Christian." "NO, we are LDS!" "We are Mormon!" Reading boards were ex-LDS post on, I see lots of complaints on changing doctrine and beliefs, a confusing church.

[pam]

From the PM I sent you, You said I should ask here, Lol

haha Thanks. I'm losing it.

[pam]

Yep. "We are Christian." "NO, we are LDS!" "We are Mormon!" Reading boards were ex-LDS post on, I see lots of complaints on changing doctrine and beliefs, a confusing church.

What exactly does this have to do with the topic?

[HoosierGuy]

What exactly does this have to do with the topic?

I was replying to soulsearchers post.

[pam]

Let me rephrase this. What exactly did your comment about changing doctrine and beliefs have to do with this topic?

[Moksha]

Rodger, the prime thing to look for in whether Mormons are Christian is whether they confess Jesus as the Christ.

The answer is that they do.

BTW, good point about not relying on book answers.

[MarieV]

I try my best to do what Jesus would do. I measure my success as a person against how closely I am acting as Christ would do. I will be honest that I have failed and not treated others as kindly as the Saviour would at all times, but I tell the Lord I am sorry, repent and try again.

That is another reason I consider myself a Christian. I feel that I cannot be free from my sins and imperfections without His intercession. I also go to Him when I am sad, stressed, or discouraged. I know He knows how I feel and He takes the pain away. I can do my best to follow his example and eventually would like to go to him less often to repent, but until then I will rely on Him to take my sins away.

He is my best friend.

[Traveler]

I will be totally honest, I don't know any lds, so I'm asking you all. I'm not looking to become a lds, so no pressure, Lol

I'm thinking about taking on a business partner for my Christian Company.

I have a Christian info company and add some lds info on my site, but this person will not work with me if I do this. He says lds are not Christians because of some of your "different" beliefs, so I should not include you. Yes I know many Christians who say this.

So, I would like to ask a few questions, so that I may understand things better.

I will start by asking what you say when others say you are not Christians?

I'm not looking for you to defend lds, just want to hear from your "HEART"

Thanks, Roger

Edit... I don't want "book" Answers, I want to hear from you, who live this everyday, Thanks

Many that belong to the traditional Christians faith have problems with LDS because we do not accept baptisms of their particular religion. We believe that the authority to baptize was lost to traditional Christians when the Apostles were taken from the leadership of Christianity and others were put in the place of Apostles. This in LDS theology is called the great Apostasy. Thus if someone from any other faith or religion desires membership in the LDS church they must be baptized by someone of our faith that has received the priesthood directly through an Apostle or in a direct line to an Apostle.

I can understand that this causes a difficult difference to overcome between LDS and other Christians. This difference convinces many that we are not Christian and to be honest I do not blame them. It is a matter that we see and understand authority differently.

I have known LDS that do not believe other religions are really Christian. However, my personal belief is that it is better we find things upon which we can agree rather than the few things in which we differ.

The Traveler

[extra_mile]

Are not Christians supposed to love their brothers and sisters and want to win souls to Christ? I want to win souls to my Lord Jesus Christ. I do not want to dislike others because they have different beliefs. By this shall all men know ye are my disciples if ye have love one to another.

So True!

[skippy740]

Here's my take on this:

I ask THEM to tell me why they think I'm not Christian. (It's kinda funny to get someone else to define my beliefs!) Actually, it's kinda arrogant.

Then I work on these points:

- Jesus Christ is our Savior. No other ways or means can one be saved to the Kingdom of God.

- Joseph Smith was a Prophet. Do we respect him? Yes. Do we FOLLOW him? Yes AND the living Prophet. Do we follow BLINDLY? No. The term "Saint" means STUDENT. We are STUDENTS of the word, and not hearers only. We are to study and pray about anything and everything about the gospel.

Now, some members are actually rather fanatical about their "following the Prophet". It's usually meant correctly, but they don't understand that MOST people consider us a CULT - because we have a living prophet.

Cult means to BLINDLY follow a MAN and to be deceived by such. We believe our church is led by Him whose name it is: Jesus Christ. (And last I checked, He is a Man.) But if we make this distinction (and mean it), people will begin to understand.

We follow a living prophet and study the words of ancient prophets - just like they do. We simply have MORE.

[extra_mile]

Rodger, the prime thing to look for in whether Mormons are Christian is whether they confess Jesus as the Christ.

The answer is that they do.

BTW, good point about not relying on book answers.

Thanks, I never did like hearing book answers, It really has nothing to do with what a person believes. If a person can't tell you for themself, why they do something, then they don't really believe it, they just follow what they have been told to.

I always thought lds were Christians, but it is good to here from you the members, How and Why you are Christians. People many times seem to judge others by the bad things they hear about them, I like to let people speak for themselves. You can not judge a book by it's cover, but what you see inside. I see Christians in the lds church, thanks guys for your comments.

[extra_mile]

I try my best to do what Jesus would do. I measure my success as a person against how closely I am acting as Christ would do. I will be honest that I have failed and not treated others as kindly as the Saviour would at all times, but I tell the Lord I am sorry, repent and try again.

That is another reason I consider myself a Christian. I feel that I cannot be free from my sins and imperfections without His intercession. I also go to Him when I am sad, stressed, or discouraged. I know He knows how I feel and He takes the pain away. I can do my best to follow his example and eventually would like to go to him less often to repent, but until then I will rely on Him to take my sins away.

What a Great Comment!!! This is what we should all aim to be and do.

[extra_mile]

Many that belong to the traditional Christians faith have problems with LDS because we do not accept baptisms of their particular religion. We believe that the authority to baptize was lost to traditional Christians when the Apostles were taken from the leadership of Christianity and others were put in the place of Apostles. This in LDS theology is called the great Apostasy. Thus if someone from any other faith or religion desires membership in the LDS church they must be baptized by someone of our faith that has received the priesthood directly through an Apostle or in a direct line to an Apostle.

I can understand that this causes a difficult difference to overcome between LDS and other Christians. This difference convinces many that we are not Christian and to be honest I do not blame them. It is a matter that we see and understand authority differently.

I have known LDS that do not believe other religions are really Christian. However, my personal belief is that it is better we find things upon which we can agree rather than the few things in which we differ.

The Traveler

I can see this might cause a problem with some, but this does not make either side not Christian, it's just another difference.

Thanks for sharing this, i did not know this.

[extra_mile]

Here's my take on this:

I ask THEM to tell me why they think I'm not Christian. (It's kinda funny to get someone else to define my beliefs!) Actually, it's kinda arrogant.

Then I work on these points:

- Jesus Christ is our Savior. No other ways or means can one be saved to the Kingdom of God.

- Joseph Smith was a Prophet. Do we respect him? Yes. Do we FOLLOW him? Yes AND the living Prophet. Do we follow BLINDLY? No. The term "Saint" means STUDENT. We are STUDENTS of the word, and not hearers only. We are to study and pray about anything and everything about the gospel.

Now, some members are actually rather fanatical about their "following the Prophet". It's usually meant correctly, but they don't understand that MOST people consider us a CULT - because we have a living prophet.

Cult means to BLINDLY follow a MAN and to be deceived by such. We believe our church is led by Him whose name it is: Jesus Christ. (And last I checked, He is a Man.) But if we make this distinction (and mean it), people will begin to understand.

We follow a living prophet and study the words of ancient prophets - just like they do. We simply have MORE.

Nice Answer, Thanks! I bet when people tell you what you believe, it can be pretty funny, LOL

[jayanna]

sometimes it is funny, and I laugh, I can't help it

Sometimes they wait until they can corner one of my kids, teens, and smear them with the ugly stuff.

Like they are gonna go to hell, etc. I think that sounds more like a Pharisee than Jesus.

My daughter even had a teacher at school this year that gave her a hard time during class. But I know I have to forgive them. I know there are some on both sides (LDS and non) who are not what they claim to be. Personally I like to say to them that Jesus said to shine a light, not point a finger.

I only hope that when I meet my Savior, Jesus Christ, He will know me and say that He is well-pleased.

[GDKT]

I didn't read most of this topic, but just wanted to add this:

I honestly feel that most "christian" churches are becoming so casual that the very meaning of the word Christian is fading from their memory. Think of the word Christmas. How many people hear that word and don't even realize that it is structured from the name Christ? I think you would be surprised. In the same way, people today say Christian and many honestly don't even grasp what that is saying--that your beliefs are founded in Christ as your savior.

I can't think of a single church who's beliefs are more deeply founded in Christ than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

[Vanhin]

I think when a person professes to be a Christian, you can tell by the way they treat their fellow man. Most latter-day saints I know seek to serve and love their neighbor, and I know many of others of different Christian faiths who do likewise. I think that is how you can tell a true disciple of Christ.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. (John 13:34-35)

It is true, latter-day saints consider themselves Christians, because our religion is based on the teachings of Christ both from ancient and modern sources, however, I think true discipleship is based on how well we emulate the Master's love for others.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[extra_mile]

Great answers guys, thanks