So what is it they are experiencing?

[CommanderSouth]

My topic here is in relation to those of other Christian denominations.

I was watching Donnie Swaggart with my mother a few minutes ago and I got to wondering one of the questions that has been with me since conversion.

What are they feeling?

Donnie talks about God leading them to start a TV network to preach the gospel, this seems plausible, and you can't deny the conviction he shows. My parents experience manifestations of the holy spirit in the typical pentecostal fashion.

Other churches still talk about God leading them to do things.

All have experienced miracles, the pentecostal church came out of Asusa Street with some mighty miracles. Other churches witness miracles.

But where I get stuck is I often wonder, what is it that is speaking to these people, their doctrines run contrary on many things, some in relation to salvation. Is God truly talking to them all, and if they are wrong, yet so sincere, why is God not leading them towards the church, especially if we have the keys to the celestial kingdom?

It would seem to me people would be more drawn, but they don't seem to be, they seem to be so sure of their faith, that sometimes, it shakes mine...

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

[pam]

The LDS religion doesn't hold the monopoly on miracles. Miracles can happen to anyone that has a firm belief in God and in Jesus Christ.

While there are many that have this firm belief, we also believe they don't have the truth of everything. I find myself most of the time referring back to our 11th Article of Faith.

While we would like to have everyone know of the truth as we know it, not all yet have had that opportunity.

[Maya]

Many of these good people do feel drawn thowards us, but there are many things that stop them. I seen interest arise for our Church`s teachings among these good people pretty often, but that is where it stops as:

The leader of their religion or family or other members of their religion tells them we go to hell and it is better to keep away from "heretics".

Also they say that their leaders have proven us "heretics".

They go on internett and find an antisite and choose to believe that.

Sometimes they want to know everything before babtizement, which mean several years study and then the life gets them while they study everything.

Many are just babtized, confirmated, maried and later burried in their Church and have no interest what so ever about what to believe, many dont even believe in Chirst... it all is just a cultural thing for them. A chain from parents to Children that is not to be broken.

LDS is a strange religion to them, they dont know much of it besides polygamy, which ofcourse is very popular subject today and pushing people away.

Many believe that everyone will be glorified by their faith.... no Church is nessessary.

Many of the things above are very convinient. People like things to be convinient... they dont like changes, often they are afraid of changes.

Around where I live 1% LDS 75-60% Lutheran (30-20% active) there are many stories about how difficult it is to get rid of any other religion than what most belong to.... where you just send an e-mail saying I resighn and nobody cares.

In generall people are been scared from searching other Churches, especially LDS (even speaches are held against LDS) or it is indifferent to them. Good God believing people often agree that people are not to know things,so as they dont knwo they dont get interested.

Some bad LDS examples also give bad name to the Church.

Once JW came at our door and they gfave us material and my husband gave them a BoM which the younger wanted to take but the older said NO! They pass us by now

In a Pentachostal discusition I was having a very nice discusition with a nice member but then someone noticed and came and told me to get out of there. It also looked like someone had a talk with this person as his attitude changed violently. The discusition was not any special LDS related, but parts of the conclutions did point that way. I was not converting anyone just talking... today I can not write anywhere with my name as they know I am LDS so they either dont answer, or change subject to somethign they take as negative in our Church. Even if I get a nice discusition someone runs there telling those who dare to talk with me that I am a "heretic" mormon and not is better not to discuss with me at all as I am goint to the hot place. If I write with an other name I can discuss in peace....

Those who are active in their religion, no matter how good peopel they are how they love our saviour and believe in Him are too scared to change. If one big evangelist leader would change religion many would follow... people trust blindly without studying themselves. They consentarte on grace and humbleness.

[NeuroTypical]

A bunch of Nazarene kids taught my kids more about praying to God as if He was a real person, than they've learned at church.

I've seen a group of evangelicals sharing communion by swaying back and forth in a circle with their hands raised in praise - seemed pretty genuine to me.

I had a boss back in Denver, who once decided that God had called him to the work, so he and his wife sold everything, picked up their 5 yr old kid, and headed to Thailand to preach out of the Bible. His blog shares experiences of helping Thai prostitutes find God and find a real job. 8 years later, he has built and runs a retreat for missionaries who get burned out spreading the word. I'm certainly not going to tell him that God never gave him that initial push.

I've also witnessed people who don't know any better, mistaking adrenalin for feeling the spirit, who get a good 'rock concert buzz' going and figure that means they're feeling God's presence. I've seen people with hallucinations, or even really strong desires, misinterpreted as divine manifistations.

What Pam said. I know I've felt the Spirit. I've felt it at some of the darkest moments in my life, as I was as far away from the church as I've ever been. Who am I to say that God doesn't talk to other people outside of the church, the same way He spoke to me when I was out of it?

So, I've recieved a powerful spiritual witness that the BoM is what it claims to be, and Joseph Smith is what he claims to be. I figure my church has the fullness of the Gospel, and that through baptism and confirmation, the Holy Ghost can be my constant companion. But I don't think I'm a member of an elite group of better-than-everyone-elses who has the corner on the god market.

LM

Edited September 11, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[hordak]

The LDS religion doesn't hold the monopoly on miracles. Miracles can happen to anyone. that has a firm belief in God and in Jesus Christ.

I would stop with the bold, miracles can happen to anyone,regardless of religious belief. (though it is probably more apt to be recognized as a miracle, with a strong religious conviction)

[pam]

I would stop with the bold, miracles can happen to anyone,regardless of religious belief. (though it is probably more apt to be recognized as a miracle, with a strong religious conviction)

No...I don't wanna.

[CommanderSouth]

I don't want to paint what I am thinking as Mormons having a corner on the micracle and God markets, I am wondering mostly about (as an example) why God would tell Donnie Swagggrt to start a 24 hour TV station to preach the gospel, if that Gospel wasn't the fullness thereof.

The only thing that makes it make any sense to me would be that if God were casting a wide net, prepping those who are ready for Jesus, but not Joseph Smith right now for the world to come, where they may be more pliable. If that be the case, it would make sense people are experiencing miracles and talking with God, he is preparing them for more to come.

Does any of that make sense, and from where you all stand, is it congruent with the restored gospel?

[Dravin]

I don't want to paint what I am thinking as Mormons having a corner on the micracle and God markets, I am wondering mostly about (as an example) why God would tell Donnie Swagggrt to start a 24 hour TV station to preach the gospel, if that Gospel wasn't the fullness thereof.

Well it depends on what he prayed about.

If he prayed to know if he should do more to spread the gospel I can certainly see him getting a hearty yes from the Lord in response to that question. People can take questions and then work off of them. For instance if I prayed to know if a girl would make a fine companion for me, I might marry her, have 5 kids, a cat, two dogs and a lizard. But it wouldn't be accurate for me to say that the Lord told me to marry her and have 5 kids, a cat, two dogs and a lizard based off of that.

For a more down to earth example, I might feel impressed I should be more friendly at church so I invite someone to play computer games at my house or watch movies, it isn't like the Lord impressed me to play computer games or watch movies.

The only thing that makes it make any sense to me would be that if God were casting a wide net, prepping those who are ready for Jesus, but not Joseph Smith right now for the world to come, where they may be more pliable.

I'm quite willing to believe that the Lord works with us based on the knowledge we have. The idea that others feel they are called to the ministry doesn't surprise me that much, when you boil it down it's a call to share the gospel. Does it surprise anyone that an earnest individual might feel impressed to share the gospel with vigor?

Now some people take this to the extent that the Lord will 'keep' someone as a Catholic or what have you despite earnest truth seeking for the fullness of the gospel because he can get more work out of them as a Catholic, but I'm not sure I buy that. The idea is out there though.

[hordak]

I don't want to paint what I am thinking as Mormons having a corner on the micracle and God markets, I am wondering mostly about (as an example) why God would tell Donnie Swagggrt to start a 24 hour TV station to preach the gospel, if that Gospel wasn't the fullness thereof.

The only thing that makes it make any sense to me would be that if God were casting a wide net, prepping those who are ready for Jesus, but not Joseph Smith right now for the world to come, where they may be more pliable. If that be the case, it would make sense people are experiencing miracles and talking with God, he is preparing them for more to come.

Does any of that make sense, and from where you all stand, is it congruent with the restored gospel?

I think this is why God the FATHER and family is so important. As a Father myself i have the same goals, dreams, rules etc. for my children, but i understand them as individuals and as such i might give them different ways to learn.

I might teach caring to my daughter by having her help the neighbor clean up their yard, while my son is learning by cleaning the table.

We are children saying, "Why am i working out in the sun while brothers is inside" or " why are you wasting your time outside, just clean the table"

We don't know why Father has bro and sis doing something different. But chances are he knows better then us.

[jayanna]

I think you should go to a Gladys Knight concert that she has for missionary purposes. It is a really great experience...you can't go wrong.

She and her husband explain that their church before they joined the true church of Jesus Christ, was good, that they were taught wonderful, good things about God...and that it was to prepare them for what they have now.

It might seem a little too easy to condemn the religions of others, but we are supposed to shine a light. Share your testimony of your church, speculation about someone elses leads down a dark and windy road.

[prisonchaplain]

Pentecostals have restored the sense of intimacy with God. He can be experienced. The sensation is one of joy and empowerment. Most churches believe in this, but few leave room for it. I would guess most LDS have the strongest experiences of God's presence and empowerment while in a temple. For Pentecostals, it's an expected part of church each week.

As for whether God speaks to those who believe wrong things, haven't you met someone in your own ward who said something that was wrong? Better yet, was not Jonah a prophet? Yet his attitude towards Ninevah was wrong.

[Traveler]

Pentecostals have restored the sense of intimacy with God. He can be experienced. The sensation is one of joy and empowerment. Most churches believe in this, but few leave room for it. I would guess most LDS have the strongest experiences of God's presence and empowerment while in a temple. For Pentecostals, it's an expected part of church each week.

As for whether God speaks to those who believe wrong things, haven't you met someone in your own ward who said something that was wrong? Better yet, was not Jonah a prophet? Yet his attitude towards Ninevah was wrong.

I believe there is much more to this thread than meets the eye. Has there been a war in at least the last 2000 years that both sides did not believe and proclaim that G-d was with them? As sincere as Saladin and his armies were; so also were the Templar armies and others that fought against Saladin. All inspired by G-d?

When someone is inspired to give compassion to an enemy – I believe that is inspired. But when burning the books considered sacred by another – I do not think G-d inspires such things. And I do not think G-d inspires that funds be used in a manner contrary to the ancient order established among his covenant peoples.

I believe many men get away with many things claiming to act in the name of G-d that is in vein saying “L-rd, L-rd have we not done many “miracles” in thy name?” But the L-rd will answer them and say he never knew them – which can also be translated that – He never authorized them.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Traveler, sometimes people say they are inspired when they are not. Sometimes inspired people confuse their own opinions with inspiration. Sometimes wicked people are used as a mouthpiece for God at a particular time, even though they are far from God. And then there are those wonderful times when it all comes together....God's inspiration touching a receptive soul who accurately communicates it just as God wishes, to a people eagerly awaiting God's word.

[jayanna]

I think that is why we have the third commandment, not to take the Lord's name in vain.

It isn't just about a swear word, but about claiming authority, or a message from Him when there is none.

It is one of the big ten, as I like to call them :) But it is also breaking the commandment to love one another, b/c when you share something that is not true for fame or fortune, then you aren't loving others, you are only loving yourself. This can be seen by members in every faith that I've seen, including my own, unfortunately.

Oposition in all things, I guess.

While we do have to experience the effects of the fall, we did also get the gift of knowledge of good and evil. If you are in a situation where you aren't sure what you are seeing is of God or not, you can search, ponder, and pray to know what is true. The good will feel right and true and uplifting, giving knowledge and inspiration, while the evil will encourage confusion and mistrust.

[Traveler]

Traveler, sometimes people say they are inspired when they are not. Sometimes inspired people confuse their own opinions with inspiration. Sometimes wicked people are used as a mouthpiece for God at a particular time, even though they are far from God. And then there are those wonderful times when it all comes together....God's inspiration touching a receptive soul who accurately communicates it just as God wishes, to a people eagerly awaiting God's word.

Two things surprise me - perhaps they are really the same. First: that something very inspired can occur and two people experiencing it but only one will be inspired. Second: that something uninspiring can occur and the two people experiencing it but somehow one will overcome the "darkness" and be inspired.

The Traveler

[Suzie]

What I never understood about some modern miracles is why can't the sick be whole? The one who couldn't walk, can walk now with "help", the blind can see now but with "glasses" and so on...

[jayanna]

oh, I was healed and made whole when I had spinal meningitis, the doctor was so amazed...I had three spinal taps in the same day. So I know sometimes people are made whole.

I think maybe sometimes the Lord wants us to learn something from our illness...like with my heart condition...my family is actually a better family now.

Maybe the sickness is helping us become whole, or more on the path of righteousness. I gave a talk about this a few weeks ago...'Sometimes the Miracle is in the Illness'