Education, Motherhood... ?

[JThimm88]

I was looking on LDS.org and wasn't having any luck. I'm particularly looking for talks that speak on both the importance of education and of being a wife/mother, but that focus on motherhood being a greater calling?

I'm dealing with a bit of a situation with my husband's older brother. I have not finished getting my undergraduate degree. My husband and I were married a year ago, moved halfway across the country so he can finish school, and I have put my education on the back burner. Now that my husband and I are expecting, my plan is to be a stay-at-home mother while I can. One thing I've struggled with as far as education goes is, I've never known what I've wanted to do as a worldly career. From a young age, I've wanted to be a wife and mother, but my brother-in-law makes it seem like my desire to do so isn't worthy, and has made a point to tell me that without an education and degree, I'm basically useless.

(Trust me, if I were like some women who know what they want to do, are able to get degrees, and still be mothers, (and all at the same time even!), I would do it... but as far as a degree choice goes, in the 3 years I was in college, I switched universities at one point, and majors 4 or 5 times . . . which obviously was a waste of time and money, but I kept pursuing it at the recommendation of others.)

Also, I understand the importance of a degree in today's society; it's hard to get a job without one, but I am also content working minimum wage at a job simply because I enjoy it, if need be. However, my husband and I crossing our fingers (and working our butts off before the baby comes) that we'll be financially well-enough off that I can stay at home while he works.

I also don't really mean to complain about my brother-in-law, and I know I shouldn't let him get to me so much, but in the two years I've known him, he has made comments to me that can be very hurtful, and I'm just looking for some talks that can get me uplifted instead of continuing to focus on the unkind words he's said to me recently.

Thanks (and sorry this post is so long)!

[Intrigued]

Also, I understand the importance of a degree in today's society; it's hard to get a job without one, but I am also content working minimum wage at a job simply because I enjoy it, if need be. However, my husband and I crossing our fingers (and working our butts off before the baby comes) that we'll be financially well-enough off that I can stay at home while he works.

This is all that matters, IMO. College is not a requirement for anyone and at times it does seem like nothing more than an expensive day care. To be frank.. for the next 6-7 years you'll really be unable to work much due to a child.. so make due with what you have. When your kid is a little older maybe you can go back to school if you want.

I swapped majors quite a bit too. Pre-med, nursing, molecular biology, etc.

[Tarnished]

To tell the truth in today's economy it is difficult to get a job with a degree as well. The truth of the matter is that to be a stay at home mom you don't really need a college education, you just need to take care of your children.

In my marriage I have a college degree and my husband does not, however he has been certified in different networking certifications and those certifications give him a similar paycheck to someone who has a Bachelors degree, in fact he makes more than I do and I have the degree and he does not. If it were me I would ignore your brother in law and when the topic comes up tell him you know his opinion and you would rather not hear it as you do not agree. If he brings it up when he is in your home tell him he can either change the subject or leave.

If you can stay at home and take care of your baby then great! But if you can't then just do the best you can do. And don't worry about other people's opinions of your actions.

[mightynancy]

"Thank you, BIL! Hey, next time there's an opening on the Committee to Run My Life, I'll be sure to send for your resumé."

If you want assurance for your choices, you've been given some good references. I'd also tell my BIL to mind his own. That said, if you want to finish your degree, there are so many flexible options now (including online courses) that a SAHM can finish school. In many fields, it doesn't matter so much what your degree is in so long as you have the degree.

[jayanna]

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Enriching and Protecting the Home: A Conversation with Barbara W. Winder, Relief Society General President ...to the question

"We have talked about the importance of education and of preparing for potential employment as well as preparing to be a homemaker. Yet we are often counseled that mothers should remain in the home with their children. Has the attitude of Church leaders changed on this subject?"

Sis. Winder replied with the following paragraphs...

"Being a wife and a mother and strengthening the family is an important career. The more education a mother has, the better off she will be in fulfilling that career—or any other career—well. President Spencer W. Kimball told us that our prime priority in life ought to be to enrich, to protect, and to guard the home. There are many ways we can do this. Many women are at the hearth, teaching their children by their side. Some women are in the classroom. Some are in the courtroom, guarding and defending the home. Some are in medicine, helping to protect us against the ills and dangers of life.

I watched a group of women in Tallahassee, Florida, leave their homes for a period of time to lobby for some important legislation for their community. To me, that is guarding and defending the home. They spent a lot of time doing what they thought was important and necessary. Education and training helped prepare them to be able to do that.

I don’t believe the attitude of Church leaders has changed. Throughout all ages, women have been guarding and defending the home in a variety of ways. In 1873 Brigham Young told Ellis Reynolds Shipp that he would like her to become a doctor. In 1875 Sister Shipp went east, leaving her husband to care for the family while she pursued a medical career. Many early pioneer women worked in the fields and kept the farms while their husbands served missions.

In Proverbs 31:10–31 [Prov. 31:10–31], we read, “Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.” In those verses we are told that a virtuous woman weaves fabric, sells linen—her hands are not idle: “She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.” (Prov. 31:27.) I think that is one of the keys. We should not be idle. We should be constantly using our gifts and talents to build up our families, the kingdom of God, and the community about us."

Also Dallin H. Oaks responded to a question about women and education, I'll put the link in LDS.org - Ensign Article - Insights

My mother had a college education when she married my father. When she was about 30, she had three children, and he passed away from cancer. Her college education made our home more stable, and our lives much easier. I think that if you can put in a little time to finish off a degree, a general studies one possibly, would be an investment into your and their future.

Dr. Charles D. McIver, in addressing the students at North Carolina College for Women said, “When you educate a man you educate an individual; when you educate a woman you educate a whole family” (in The Home Book of Quotations, 8th ed., comp. Burton Stevenson, New York: Dodd, Mead and Co., 1956, p. 2193).

Consider how Elder Oaks concluded his remarks to LDS women: “There are other reasons why it is important for our young women to receive a proper education. Education is more than vocational. Education should improve our minds, strengthen our bodies, heighten our cultural awareness and increase our spirituality. It should prepare us for greater service to the human family. Such an education will improve a woman’s ability to function as an informed and effective teacher of her sons and daughters, and as a worthy and wise counselor and companion to her husband. Some have observed that the mother’s vital teaching responsibility makes it even more important to have educated mothers than to have educated fathers” (BYU President’s Assembly, 9 Sept. 1975).

A woman who prepares for a career is smart. Keep on dreaming about a temple marriage and a bright and beautiful family. Dreams do come true. But be realistic enough to recognize that life isn’t a fairy tale, and you may not have a happily-ever-after ending. Be prepared for whatever the future brings. LDS.org - New Era Article - Happily Ever After?

Edited October 6, 2010 by jayanna

[dahlia]

JThimm88 - I'm a professor and a mom, though my son is grown. If you were my advisee, I'd suggest that you stay with your baby while you can. Since you don't have an obvious career path that is of interest to you, stay with the baby and get some life experience. In the next few years, I bet you develop interests that will lead you to the right major and a career, because it is a HUGE waste of money and time to keep switching majors has you've done.

That said, not everyone needs to go to college. Maybe it isn't your thing, and that's fine, but as others have mentioned, I think you should be prepared for life and making your own way should that happen (I was widowed in my 30's), or at least helping your husband if necessary. Maybe you can take a 1 year computing program, or X-ray technology, or any of the many programs offered by community colleges that only take a year or so of training and lead directly to a job (as opposed to being an English major and hoping you find a job).

Tell your BIL to live his own life; you find what's right for you.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I was looking on LDS.org and wasn't having any luck. I'm particularly looking for talks that speak on both the importance of education and of being a wife/mother, but that focus on motherhood being a greater calling?

I'm dealing with a bit of a situation with my husband's older brother. I have not finished getting my undergraduate degree. My husband and I were married a year ago, moved halfway across the country so he can finish school, and I have put my education on the back burner. Now that my husband and I are expecting, my plan is to be a stay-at-home mother while I can. One thing I've struggled with as far as education goes is, I've never known what I've wanted to do as a worldly career. From a young age, I've wanted to be a wife and mother, but my brother-in-law makes it seem like my desire to do so isn't worthy, and has made a point to tell me that without an education and degree, I'm basically useless.

(Trust me, if I were like some women who know what they want to do, are able to get degrees, and still be mothers, (and all at the same time even!), I would do it... but as far as a degree choice goes, in the 3 years I was in college, I switched universities at one point, and majors 4 or 5 times . . . which obviously was a waste of time and money, but I kept pursuing it at the recommendation of others.)

Also, I understand the importance of a degree in today's society; it's hard to get a job without one, but I am also content working minimum wage at a job simply because I enjoy it, if need be. However, my husband and I crossing our fingers (and working our butts off before the baby comes) that we'll be financially well-enough off that I can stay at home while he works.

I also don't really mean to complain about my brother-in-law, and I know I shouldn't let him get to me so much, but in the two years I've known him, he has made comments to me that can be very hurtful, and I'm just looking for some talks that can get me uplifted instead of continuing to focus on the unkind words he's said to me recently.

Thanks (and sorry this post is so long)!

I am a mother of 4 and have an advanced degree that was obtained after my children were out of elementary school. My husband is a physician and it was important to be at home for my children, especially in their younger years, as my husband even now has limited time with our children. I was able to obtain my advanced degree in between my family responsibilities but it never came first. I think the one thing that made it possible though was the focus was never to make a "career" out of it. I think if you approach it with that in mind you will only face frustration. I think it is good to obtain education when you can so long as it doesn't come before family.

And the goal should be, to be a help-meet to your husband. I have found that my advanced degree allows my husband and I to have conversations that we would never otherwise have. Even though I don't understand everything he has trained to do in his career, there are many things that I can at least be a sounding board for. I find it a blessing to be closer to the same "level" with my husband than I would have otherwise been without an education and I think that is a worthy reason to seek an education. I would be prayerful though about making a "career" out of your education goals, that may be the wrong focus when there are family obligations.

[Guest]

Okay, I apologize that I'm not really answering your question. The posters above me have sufficiently given you enough material, I think.

I just want to give you a different take on the matter. Okay, your brother-in-law is a busybody... but, there is a nugget of wisdom he imparts.

Being a stay-at-home mom is great. But, that doesn't mean that you forsake education. Now, there are different ways to achieve education.

A 4-day course at the community center to learn how to perform emergency CPR is education that will help your family, although it's not really something you can use as a "fall back" career in case your husband loses his job temporarily or becomes unable to provide for some reason. An 11-week course to be a Certified Nurse Assistant is something that will benefit your family, especially your children, and you can use it to find a job if necessary. You can then go on to become a Licensed Practical Nurse for a few more months, then become a Registered Nurse down the road. This is learning that can help your family deal with their health issues even if you don't want to have a "job" on it now.

Taking "teaching" courses is also beneficial for your children. You can work towards being a certified teacher in your county in case you need a job later on.

What I'm trying to say is... just because your priority is your children does not mean you forsake education.

A father who is out there working does not mean that his priority is his job and his family second. No. His family is his priority that's why he is out there getting money to provide for his family. If that job has a negative effect on his family instead of a positive one, it doesn't matter how much money he makes on that job, he needs to consider if quitting that job would make his family better off - both temporally and spiritually.

I'm a mother of 2 children. I work from home. I go to school from home. My university is a good 2 hours away from my house. I've only been on campus, maybe twice... in the past 2 years I've been going. Do you know how I manage to take classes as a full-time mother with a full-time job?

First of all, I work while my kids are in school. Then, for school, my husband got me this iPad that I can download my lectures on. My kids go to soccer practice for 1.5 hours on Tuesdays and Fridays. I would bring my folding chair and lapdesk (it's that plastic laptray my kids use with the bins on the sides for pencils/paper that we got from Wal-mart... it has Lightning McQueen design on it)... I would watch the lectures right there on the soccer field with my headphones and take notes on my kiddie desk. I can even take the exams that way. Now that it's football season, I get to do my schoolwork while the boys are busy watching Alabama beat the Gators. I also do some schoolwork at the church while waiting for cub scouts. I have tons of "nothing but wait" times that I use as productive times with a little creativity and enough desire to do it.

My job has been a benefit to our family - it lessens the pressure on my husband so that he can take as much time off as he needs so he can do stuff like scouting campouts, home teaching, and spending quality time with the kids. My kids are still my highest priority. If my job/school starts to conflict with my responsibilities towards my children, it's gone.

Hope you get some ideas from this post.

[Connie]

Many people today seem to equate education with job training, but this is not necessarily the case. To put it mathematically, all job training is education but not all education is job training.

"During the difficult economic conditions of postwar Germany, opportunities for education were not as abundant as they are today. But in spite of limited options, I always felt an eagerness to learn. I remember one day, while I was out on my bike delivering laundry, I entered the home of a classmate of mine. In one of the rooms, two small desks were nestled against the wall. What a wonderful sight that was! How fortunate those children were to have desks of their own! I could imagine them sitting with open books studying their lessons and doing their homework. It seemed to me that having a desk of my own would be the most wonderful thing in the world.

I had to wait a long time before that wish was fulfilled. Years later, I got a job at a research institution that had a large library. I remember spending much of my free time in that library. There I could finally sit at a desk—by myself—and drink in the information and knowledge that books provide. How I loved to read and learn! In those days I understood firsthand the words of an old saying: Education is not so much the filling of a bucket as the lighting of a fire.

For members of the Church, education is not merely a good idea—it’s a commandment. We are to learn “of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad.”

Joseph Smith loved learning even though he had few opportunities for formal education. In his journals, he spoke happily of days spent in study and often expressed his love of learning.

Joseph taught the Saints that knowledge was a necessary part of our mortal journey, for “a man is saved no faster than he [gains] knowledge,” and that “whatever principle of intelligence we attain … in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.” During challenging times, it is even more important to learn. The Prophet Joseph taught, “Knowledge does away with darkness, [anxiety], and doubt; for these cannot exist where knowledge is.”

Brethren, you have a duty to learn as much as you can. Please encourage your families, your quorum members, everyone to learn and become better educated. If formal education is not available, do not allow that to prevent you from acquiring all the knowledge you can. Under such circumstances, the best books, in a sense, can become your “university”—a classroom that is always open and admits all who apply. Strive to increase your knowledge of all that is “virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy.” Seek knowledge “by study and also by faith.” Seek with a humble spirit and contrite heart. As you apply the spiritual dimension of faith to your study—even of temporal things—you can amplify your intellectual capacity, for “if your eye be single to [God’s] glory, your whole [body] shall be filled with light, … and [comprehend] all things.”

In our learning, let us not neglect the fountain of revelation. The scriptures and the words of modern-day apostles and prophets are the sources of wisdom, divine knowledge, and personal revelation to help us find answers to all the challenges in life. Let us learn of Christ; let us seek out that knowledge which leads to peace, truth, and the sublime mysteries of eternity."

-Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf (Ensign, Nov. 2009, Two Principles for any Economy, pg. 55-58) emphasis added by me

[Justice]

This has been one of the most enjoyable threads I've read. Thank you all for your posts.

[Just_A_Guy]

FWIW, and IMHO: A college education is certainly useful--and an accomplishment--but I don't think it's absolutely necessary.

If it's education you value, you can always educate yourself.

If all you want is a fall-back source of income in case something happens to your husband, then from a purely economic point of view I think a good term life insurance policy (in conjunction with disability insurance) on your husband would be a better--and cheaper--option than a college education.

[Soulsearcher]

FWIW, and IMHO: A college education is certainly useful--and an accomplishment--but I don't think it's absolutely necessary.

If it's education you value, you can always educate yourself.

If all you want is a fall-back source of income in case something happens to your husband, then from a purely economic point of view I think a good term life insurance policy (in conjunction with disability insurance) on your husband would be a better--and cheaper--option than a college education.

While i agree, i also worry that death isn't the only reason for women to be career ready. I've seen more than a few women stay in very bad marriages because they know they have no way of making it on their own. Church teaches people to be prepared, having a career to fall back on to support your family is not a bad idea, plus at the end of the day, if hubby ends up not being able to work for some reason the need might come for wife to work and support and hubby to be at home. Doesn't mean i agree with what was said to the OP, but i find a lot of people tend to stop preparing for certain things because they think it can't happen to them.

[pam]

A talk I really enjoyed was by Ardath G. Kapp. It is directed to women.

Ardath G. Kapp – The Treasure You Will Take With You | LDS Place

The question has been asked, if a woman is trained in such broad areas, will she be lured away from the home? In many ways, her education can strengthen her home. Down the road, higher education may give her more opportunity to be with her family, to set her own working hours, to have the know-how to go into business, to prepare her to meet the economic needs of her family if she must become the provider. Knowledge and intelligence are tools that can be used in righteousness or unrighteousness. Proper use can help us better protect and guard our homes.

Edited October 7, 2010 by pam

[Guest mirancs8]

I was looking on LDS.org and wasn't having any luck. I'm particularly looking for talks that speak on both the importance of education and of being a wife/mother, but that focus on motherhood being a greater calling?

I'm dealing with a bit of a situation with my husband's older brother. I have not finished getting my undergraduate degree. My husband and I were married a year ago, moved halfway across the country so he can finish school, and I have put my education on the back burner. Now that my husband and I are expecting, my plan is to be a stay-at-home mother while I can. One thing I've struggled with as far as education goes is, I've never known what I've wanted to do as a worldly career. From a young age, I've wanted to be a wife and mother, but my brother-in-law makes it seem like my desire to do so isn't worthy, and has made a point to tell me that without an education and degree, I'm basically useless.

(Trust me, if I were like some women who know what they want to do, are able to get degrees, and still be mothers, (and all at the same time even!), I would do it... but as far as a degree choice goes, in the 3 years I was in college, I switched universities at one point, and majors 4 or 5 times . . . which obviously was a waste of time and money, but I kept pursuing it at the recommendation of others.)

Also, I understand the importance of a degree in today's society; it's hard to get a job without one, but I am also content working minimum wage at a job simply because I enjoy it, if need be. However, my husband and I crossing our fingers (and working our butts off before the baby comes) that we'll be financially well-enough off that I can stay at home while he works.

I also don't really mean to complain about my brother-in-law, and I know I shouldn't let him get to me so much, but in the two years I've known him, he has made comments to me that can be very hurtful, and I'm just looking for some talks that can get me uplifted instead of continuing to focus on the unkind words he's said to me recently.

Thanks (and sorry this post is so long)!

From a young age I also wanted to be a wife and mother unlike many of my friends who wanted the career path first. I mostly worked throughout my marriage but that was a choice I made for various reasons. Today it's just as hard for those who have degrees to get employment unfortunately.

This is a decision between you and your husband. This decision should stay within the walls of your home and it shouldn't be open for debate from other family members. As you and your husband pray to seek guidance you will know what is right for you and your family. It's not very nice that your BIL is making you feel that being a wife and mother first isn't the most rewarding choice for you and your husband (and children).

Curious does your BIL say this in front of your husband? If so how does your husband respond?

Try to not engage in dialog about the topic when he brings it up. Quickly change the topic. Maybe he'll get the hint

[GeoRioux]

My wife was going to college when we met over 16 years ago. She was working hard to study in here Computer Science Major. Then she put it on hold to marry me (sorry honey).

We have been married for almost 15 years and we BOTH have started back in our pursuit in our education. She is alot closer to her education goals than I am but that's ok.

I have 4 children and at one time we were both working and it just became to difficult to have her hardly see her kids, so we decided that we would put the trust in the Lord and have her quit and stay at home.

No don't get me wrong we have struggled and been stressed for many years on how are we are going to pay for the things that we need. Having 2 incomes is a wonderful thing and I can understand why people do it, BUT....

I would never go back in time and change our decision. Watching my children grow and learn as their mother stays at home and cares for them and for myself for that matter, is a blessing that I adore.

We have been told that we need to continue learning and never cease . Getting an education does not always mean getting a degree or going to college.

You can continue to learn by learning how to fix things, or make something that you have never made before. This is the power of education and how endless it is.

Now I understand that the economy is terrible and that decisions have to be made, but I ask that you take these things to the Lord and He will direct you on what you need to do.

If it is a financial situation that your family needs, make sure that you are doing everything that you can to lift the burdens off.

If you desire to get a formal education to be able to go out into the work field, please make sure that you are doing at a time to where ONE of you (mom or dad) can be with the children when the other is not there. Make sure that a parent is available to their children at all times.

My wife has her 3 plan in motion and by the time she is done, she will have her teaching credential and maybe have job in 4 years. By that time all our kids will be in school full time and with her teaching she will have the same schedule as the kids.

So take you concerns to the Lord, again He WILL direct you in the path that you need to go. Just make sure you are listening and accepting on HIS plans not what you desire. I know that is hard, trust me I am going through some struggles myself and humbling myself to His plans is difficult.

Well I will get off the podium and let others post what they want.

Good luck in your endeavors.

[spamlds]

If I might share my family's experience, some sisters might find some consolation.

The most important thing any LDS person can do is follow the Spirit. It will guide you in your choices. If you listen to the world, relatives, or anything else, you may make decisions that will damage your happiness or make your life's mission more difficult to achieve.

I joined the Church at age 19. I was the first member in my family. I decided to serve the Lord first and I sacrificed to serve a mission. I came home broke and had no money for college. Conventional wisdom would have said, go get a job, get a car, save for college, and get a career. Then, after having all that completed, think about marrying somebody and raising a family.

The Lord had a different plan. I met my sweetheart just three months after I came home. She was an investigator at the time. We began dating shortly after her baptism and a few months later, we were engaged.

When we got married, we were both working minimum-wage jobs. With just two of us, we got by OK, but money was always tight. Then she got laid off from her job. There wasn't going to be any college in my future unless we changed direction. After fasting and prayer, I decided to join the Air Force. I received training, developed skills, and earned a nice living. I was able to provide for my wife and we started our family. It wasn't what I would have planned, but the Lord has his own ways of directing things.

In time, I was able to complete my education. I've worked for many years in a decent-paying field. My wife stayed home and raised five kids. The older boys served missions. A daughter married in the temple. Another daughter just left to go out to find her way in the world, leaving us one 11 year-old at home.

We downsized our lives, moved to a smaller home, and I was called to be branch president. My wife worked for a brief time in a nursing home and a medical center and that interested her in medicine. Now, having raised her kids and having more spare time, she's going to school full time in a nursing program. At the same time, I decided to go back to school for another degree. We sit down together with our sixth-grader and we all do homework together.

You can have, and do, and be whatever you want. The question is what the Lord wants for any of us. We can accomplish the things he has sent us here to do. There are sometimes sacrifices involved. Sometimes he opens up doors we don't expect. Sometimes those opportunities come long after we thought they were past.

We made personal sacrifices to put temple marriage, raising a family, sending kids on missions, etc. first in our lives. Now, having done those things, the Lord is blessing us in new ways.

As for my wife and I, being the first members in our family, we've been able to accomplish more than we ever thought we could. We have been truly blessed.