Missionaries at the door!

[dahlia]

Well, I was minding my own business last night when the bell rang and to my surprise, there were two missionaries at my door. I'd been home all day and wasn't presentable, but asked them to wait.

Well, I bet they were shocked when I (now presentable) opened the door with my BOM in hand and books on theology and the Mormon contribution to American business and civic life! They were probably more surprised when I asked if they'd seen any of the Conference and would they like to talk about it.

My son wasn't home, so they wouldn't come in, but guys, we talked in my doorway for about an hour. It was very instructive. They were nice young guys (OK, I'm a professor, I have a soft spot for clean cut college age guys) who turned down my offer of cookies. I live near the site of one of the handcart camps and we talked about that, how they were getting along in town, as well as the usual Mormon investigator stuff.

I mentioned I'd driven up to the church but was afraid to go in and they offered to take me on a tour when there wasn't a service. I think that's great; takes a way the intimidation factor. All my materials are borrowed from the library, so the guys gave me my own BOM with some nice cards in it. They are also going to look for a big print version for these tired eyes.

I hope they don't get Brownie points for a baptism 'cause I don't think I'm ready for that, but I am very open to hearing what they have to say and going to the church. I will probably meet them on campus during the day, which is probably better. I don't know what kind of free time they have, but they are living here and might as well see a bit of the campus.

Are missionaries allowed to accept gifts? I'm thinking their funds are limited and if we have a few lessons I'd like to get them some university memorabilia to take back home.

So, that is my experience with talking to missionaries.

As an aside, I'm on a conservative political board where articles about LDS come up. I just left a thread with hundreds of posts, and many of them so anti-LDS I was just ashamed for my fellow conservatives for being that narrow. What is it with protestant Christians and LDS? I don't get the venom. How can people call themselves Christian and be so hateful? If you don't want to be a Mormon, don't be one. The behavior just turns my stomach.

[NeuroTypical]

Sounds like a memorable experience for both of you! They can probably accept gifts, but there are limitations to what they can have. Anything that could distract them, TV's or radios or games or whatnot, would be against the mission rules. Clothes and memorabilia should be ok - but you probably want to ask them before getting something just to make sure.

There are plenty of Christians that believe they're doing a sacred duty by speaking "the truth". They figure Mormons are either deluded dupes that need to be warned, or evil nefarious followers of satan who need to be fought. Of course, they haven't done their homework, and some of them are just jerks, but I allow for the possibility that many of them have their hearts in the right place, if not their heads.

LM

[beefche]

I can tell you as a former full time missionary that I enjoyed talking with others about the church even if they chose not to get baptized. We call it planting seeds.

Ditto to what LM said about gifts. Something small or clothes would be great (they basically live out of a suitcase for 2 years because they get transferred to another city on a frequent basis). I remember getting some missionaries T-shirts with Indiana University on it as a reminder of their mission. Perhaps a ball cap or T-shirt from your university.

[Melissa569]

Its good that you were nice to them. From what our local Elders have told us, they've been spat on, people would throw things at them while driving by, or open the door to scream obscenities at them and slam it shut. I think even if people aren't interested AT ALL, it still wouldn't hurt them to be nice about saying no :)

Gifts? As others have said, it depends what it is. It might be too soon to give them gifts though, I would wait until you've met with them a couple of times.

When I became active again, they were comming to our house every Wednesday, and even with me (who they knew pretty well), I've had them turn down brand new packaged munchies, after having always accepted them before. One of them said he had noticed that he was gaining weight (he was quite the eater, and often endulged in whatever families would offer). I didn't think he was fat at all! But he said his waist line wast getting tight. He didn't want extra temptation starring him in the face at home.

That could be a reason they would turn down cookies :)

Edited October 9, 2010 by Melissa569

[dahlia]

Well, we've made arrangements for them to come over next week. They are bringing someone from the church with them. From the looks of the two guys, they could use a few pounds, so I'm going to have some cookies and juice available. : )

I'm not a coffee drinker, so I don't have that issue, but what do Mormons serve to drink at their functions? I'd rather not serve juice, which is just so much sugar, but I don't keep dairy in the house (so, no milk) and don't know what else would be appropriate.

[Dravin]

That could be a reason they would turn down cookies

There could be other issues like one of them having celiac's, diabetes, high cholesterol or what have you.

From the looks of the two guys, they could use a few pounds, so I'm going to have some cookies and juice available. : )

Which is good, just don't be offended if they don't snarf down cookies. :) People really do mean well, and most missionaries are quire happy to snarf down a plate of cookies, but at one point in my mission I decided to loose weight and something I don't think clicked for a lot of people is that they weren't the only person who was offering me sweet stuff. It becomes a cookie here, a slice of pie there, some kool-aid over there and it can add up over the course of a day. It wasn't just a matter of one wouldn't hurt. Though usually this was an issue of people insisting I eat seconds or have desert.

Also, if one is biking or doing a lot of walking a large meal or a stomach full of sweets does not always sit well with you over the course of such an activity.

I'd rather not serve juice, which is just so much sugar, but I don't keep dairy in the house (so, no milk) and don't know what else would be appropriate.

Ice water? It isn't the classic combination of side beverage with cookies but it is a safe bet. And most church functions have sugar water ( a powdered drink mix) and ice water, sometimes just the latter. If you do crystal light that could be another option for you, but keep in mind some people really don't like the taste of crystal light, and make sure you don't get a tea flavored one.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Dravin

[Wingnut]

Lemonade.

[LDSVALLEY]

Well, we've made arrangements for them to come over next week. They are bringing someone from the church with them. From the looks of the two guys, they could use a few pounds, so I'm going to have some cookies and juice available. : )

I'm not a coffee drinker, so I don't have that issue, but what do Mormons serve to drink at their functions? I'd rather not serve juice, which is just so much sugar, but I don't keep dairy in the house (so, no milk) and don't know what else would be appropriate.

Up here in Canada, at least in Nova Scotia the three typical drink choices at Mormon Gatherings is Water, Apple Juice, and\or Mormon Punch. Mormon Punch is a can of concentrated fruit juice mixed with a two liter of Ginger Ale, Sprite or sometimes Cream Soda. Sometimes you can add a can of water to stretch it out if need be.

As a former Mission Leader in our Ward here is some things you might find helpful. Hopefully below is a link to our Ward's Mormon-English Dictionary, new members find it helpful in understanding what seems like a different language sometimes.

Box.net | Simple Online Collaboration: Online File Storage, FTP Replacement, Team Workspaces ~ Free Version

Missionaries have a pace that they run at. They only have two years in the field and want to be the best they can be. Also it tends to be a fine line between someone catching the spirit that leads to baptism or becoming life long Investigators. So most Missionaries try to move things along quickly. If you are ready great, if not just tell them so.

Don't feel you need to know everything at once, it does not happen that way, we learn brick by brick precept upon precept, I've been a member for 14 years and have only scratched the surface of the Gospel.

Mormon's are regular people so we all have our own personalities, likes,dislikes, strengths and weakness's. We talk about being a family and it is true and like all families there are some you get along with, some you don't, some you think are nuts, some who are annoying, some who have your back always. That is the church members as well. I love all my brothers and sisters but don't always like all of them all the time.

Often people mix the Gospel up with the church organization. When they find that the organization is not working the way it should they feel the Gospel is then not true. The organization is run by those people mentioned above there are times the operations of the organization annoy or upset me but it is not the gospel and does not effect my testimony of it.

Two things I stressed every time I talk to people just joining or looking into the church.

1 The only dumb thing about a question is not to ask it. We all know something about something but not everything about everything. What might be obvious to me is not to you this gives an opportunity to share and for both to learn.

2 As humans we each have a unique set of filters created by our life, our way of thinking, our history, our individual culture, knowledge etc. Most often when someone feels offended by something it was done without intent. How I say something might make perfect sense to me but because of your filters you could find it insulting. If that happens please talk to someone about it. As Mission Leader for 3 years I had to investigate a dozen or more issues and not once was it intentional.

Last of all let me tell you this.

I never had religion in my life, neither had my wife for that matter. When we talked marriage we discussed religion, we were married by justice of the peace. When our first child was born we wanted her to have something beyond societies rules so we looked into many church's. When the Missionaries happened to knock on our door I said they could come in but had no chance of brainwashing me into their cult. And I am not a joiner, I don't belong to any organizations, I believed in God but not religion.

This month we have both been members for 14 years, it is the best thing I could ever have done for myself and for my family. For us it was the only faith that made sense out of the gospel. At times it can be frustrating but most of the time it is uplifting, soul saving and most of the members are some of the best, kindest and loving people I could ever hope to meet.

And thank you for being kind to the Missionaries, most of them work hard and need the extra lift a kind word and open door give them no matter where it leads.

I hope you enjoy the journey of discovery that you have started.

[Melissa569]

Dravin-- "There could be other issues like one of them having celiac's, diabetes, high cholesterol or what have you."

Very true, I didn't even consider that :)

OP--- I see lots of drinks at LDS functions:

* Fruit juice (lemonade, Kool Aid, etc) or punch

* Water

* Caffeine-free soda

* You could have iced *decaf* tea or coffee, I guess (like the kind at Starbucks), technically it doesn't break the rules. But you would have to constantly reassure people that its decaf, and even then there's still some debate.

* Hot cocoa (I know its a hot drink, but hey, the church/Deseret MANUFACTURES hot cocoa mix, so how bad can it be?)

I certainly drink all the above on a regular basis :)

Edited October 10, 2010 by Melissa569

[Dravin]

* You could have iced *decaf* tea or coffee, I guess (like the kind at Starbucks), technically it doesn't break the rules. But you would have to constantly reassure people that its decaf, and even then there's still some debate.

Decaf tea or coffee is not, if you'll excuse the terminology, kosher. This is one of the things you get when members try to explain the word of wisdom through chemistry. Someone "explains" that the Word of Wisdom prohibits such things because of the caffeine and someone concludes if its the caffeine then decaffeinated is okay, or they work the other way and conclude that Coke isn't.

Iced herbal tea or postum (or other coffee substitute) could work but decaffeinated coffee is just as technically against the word of wisdom as the fully caffeinated stuff, same with tea.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Dravin

[dahlia]

So, I don't know how cold it gets in Utah, but -20 is not unusual around these parts. Are people not supposed to drink any hot drinks, or only cocoa (though it appears to be problematic for some folks)? How about hot water with lemon or honey?

And if caffeine isn't the real issue, than is there anything wrong with a Diet Pepsi?

[Dravin]

So, I don't know how cold it gets in Utah, but -20 is not unusual around these parts. Are people not supposed to drink any hot drinks, or only cocoa (though it appears to be problematic for some folks)? How about hot water with lemon or honey?

Hot drinks has been clarified to mean coffee and tea (by Church Leaders). So you can do hot herbal tea or cocoa and it won't cause any doctrinal issues (about the only herbal tea I can bring myself to drink is mint, but that's just a matter of taste).

And if caffeine isn't the real issue, than is there anything wrong with a Diet Pepsi?

Nothing wrong with a Diet Pepsi (though I prefer Diet Dr. Pepper myself :) ). At least if you mean in the hypothetical "if I joined would I have to give it up" sense. If you are asking if the Missionaries would have any objections to consuming it chances are they would not. Some members though have been convinced of the Coffee -> Caffeine -> Coke reasoning, and others feel it is keeping in line with counsel to avoid addictions and the like. Now if the missionaries who come over try to tell you caffeine is against the Word of Wisdom you have my permission to slap them.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Dravin

[pam]

* You could have iced *decaf* tea or coffee, I guess (like the kind at Starbucks), technically it doesn't break the rules. But you would have to constantly reassure people that its decaf, and even then there's still some debate.

I would stay away from this if serving missionaries. Decaf doesn't mean it is caffeine free. Therefore it would be breaking the Word of Wisdom to even serve decaf coffee.

Starbucks decaffeinated coffee contains approx 12-13.4 milligrams of caffeine per 16 oz cup.

Decaffeinating just means they have removed the majority of caffeine. If all was removed it would be uncaffeinated.

* Hot cocoa (I know its a hot drink, but hey, the church/Deseret MANUFACTURES hot cocoa mix, so how bad can it be?)

Again, the Church has defined hot drinks to mean coffee and tea.

Let's please get our facts straight before issuing advice especially on a forum entitled "Learn about the Mormon Church."

*edit* To add to my comments. Never knowingly put a missionary in an awkward position by serving tea. I don't care if the leaves are red, green, black, purple or polka dotted or whatever kind people find okay to drink.

Edited October 11, 2010 by pam

[Dravin]

If all was removed it would be uncaffeinated.

And would still be against the Word of Wisdom.

[curtishouse]

And if caffeine isn't the real issue, than is there anything wrong with a Diet Pepsi?

Aside from the sugar substitute that is used can cause cancer later in life if consumed enough...no nothing wrong at all.

[Wingnut]

* You could have iced *decaf* tea or coffee, I guess (like the kind at Starbucks), technically it doesn't break the rules. But you would have to constantly reassure people that its decaf, and even then there's still some debate.

"Hot drinks" = coffee and tea. Period. End of story.

[dahlia]

Whew! What a firestorm! I'm going to serve them cookies (unless I find something more healthful while I'm shopping) and apple juice.

For myself, I will continue drinking Diet Pepsi and herbal tea. I'm diabetic and my liquid options are limited.

I'm getting a nervous stomach thinking about having them over. I haven't told my son they are coming. He'll probably wonder why I'm cleaning the house and I'll have to say something.

[jayanna]

Stop worrying, you don't have to serve them anything at all. Water is fine if they are thirsty. You don't even have to clean the house if you don't have time. They won't care, really. They will be so happy to talk with someone who actually wants to listen, they won't even notice the house.

As far as your son is concerned, it would kinda depend on how old he is.

Very young, "Some people are coming over to teach us about Jesus."

Older, "I want to know more about this church, so I've invited some people over. You can join in the conversation if you like."

are possibilities.

Have fun!

[Faded]

* You could have iced *decaf* tea or coffee, I guess (like the kind at Starbucks), technically it doesn't break the rules. But you would have to constantly reassure people that its decaf, and even then there's still some debate.

It's not just that it's "not kosher." Quite frankly, it's disgusting. Oddball thing I've noticed with a solid majority of people who grew up in the Church and never touched coffee in their lives. Most of them are a lot like me. They'd find a nice cup of coffee (be it decaf or not) about as tasty as a bowl of mud or fresh manure. To me, coffee smells TERRIBLE. I think that there must be some kind of change psychologically when you get addicted to it or live in a house full of people who are addicted to it. Perhaps just the smell goes from horrid stench to wonderfully inviting, I'm not sure.

You know those jelly beans on Harry Potter movies that are so disgusting? Yeah that's been my entire life up to now every time I encounter a coffee flavored jelly bean. So gross!

Point is, just because most people think coffee is great stuff, it doesn't hurt to realize that some people can't stand even the smell of the stuff. It's not just that they shouldn't have it. For many missionaries, even if it were fine and well to have decaf, they seriously wouldn't enjoy it one bit. It certainly is not true of everyone who grew up without coffee in their environment, but I found that a lot of life-long members feel just as much disgust for the taste of coffee as me. I'm blown away that people actual enjoy the stuff and I really hate coffee shops and doughnut shops who intentionally pipe the smell of the stuff in my direction figuring it'll boost their sales. Maybe it will, but it still stinks horribly!

To be fair, my personal disdain for coffee and it's stench are not shared by all life-long members. Some find they like the smell of it just fine and don't find themselves in a gagging and spitting fit when encounter those vile coffee flavored jelly beans.

* Hot cocoa (I know its a hot drink, but hey, the church/Deseret MANUFACTURES hot cocoa mix, so how bad can it be?)

I certainly drink all the above on a regular basis :)

Hot chocolate is fine in almost every case. You may run into somebody who honestly doesn't like it (I've never met that person, but who am I to say that nobody dislikes chocolate?), but it's a pretty safe bet that LDS missionaries are going to be fine with it.

As you may note, there are three things that we practice religiously, that are not specified outright in the World of Wisdom. 1.) Abstaining from Alcohol. 2.) Abstaining from Coffee 3.) Abstaining from Tea. It was subsequently explained by the prophet that "strong drinks" meant alcohol specifically and that "hot drinks" meant coffee and tea specifically.

" 7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly."

Hot chocolate, non-caffeinated herbal teas, wassail, hot apple cider, hot fruit punch or any other heated drink is not against the letter of the law by any means.

For that matter, colas and other caffeinated sodas are still something of a grey area. Probably best to avoid them but not explicitly prohibited, insofar as the person does not become dependent on them, and thereby addicted. So an infrequent cola is not technically breaking the rules. Having a Dr Pepper (to use their own advertising as an example) at 10AM, 2PM and 4PM every single day would be a violation of the Word of Wisdom as presently constituted because it becomes a daily addictive habit. I expect that the Church Leaders will eventually come down and make colas and caffeinated soda against the letter of the law as well, but it hasn't happened yet. People who thought it already was and found out differently are constantly firing letters to Church headquarters begging and pleading for it to be made "official" but to no avail. It certainly doesn't hurt to avoid caffeine entirely as I think that's in keeping with the spirit of the law generally -- but the letter of the law isn't there yet, like I said.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Faded

[Faded]

Whew! What a firestorm! I'm going to serve them cookies (unless I find something more healthful while I'm shopping) and apple juice.

For myself, I will continue drinking Diet Pepsi and herbal tea. I'm diabetic and my liquid options are limited.

I'm getting a nervous stomach thinking about having them over. I haven't told my son they are coming. He'll probably wonder why I'm cleaning the house and I'll have to say something.

If you ever want to see a truly mindless debate, just pop into the General Discussion board and ask, "Is it against the World of Wisdom to drink a Cocacola?" Oh how the feathers will fly! LOL. It's one of those "Mormon theological controversies" that people like to argue about. Many, many people look well past the mark when contemplating the Word of Wisdom and tend to read a lot more into it that is truly there. You'll have to forgive me/us for dragging some of that endless debate into this thread.

You'll be just fine. No alcohol, no coffee, no tea, no illicit drugs:lol:. That's as far as you need to worry about it. Serving anything else should be just fine so please don't worry about it.

[Jamie123]

I should quite like to meet the missionaries again some time myself - I've some happy memories of talking with them when I was an "investigator" many years ago.

Mormon missionaries don't seem to come around our area these days. I wouldn't specifically call and invite them because they'd assume I was interested in joining the church (which I'm not really) and I wouldn't want to waste their time. I did briefly talk to a couple of sisters on the street near my work a while back, but was in too much of a hurry to talk for long. I do hope to see them again one day and maybe invite them for dinner.

P.S. As for gifts, I've often given small presents to missionaries when they've left the area. I remember giving one girl a key ring and another a book about Anglo-Saxon England (which she'd previously told me she was interested in). They never seemed to have any problems accepting.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Jamie123

[LDSVALLEY]

Dahlia, as you can see with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there is a scope of opinion that varies from member to member that is the logic of the Lords plan. We are given guidelines to follow but we are free to follow what path is best for us as long as we stay within those guidelines. I tell Investigators it is like walking on a road you can walk on the left, the right, the center or weave back and forth and the path will lead you to the Lord. It is when we start placing one foot on the grass and the other on the path or walk completely away from it that we get lost.

We are also good at going off on tangents such as is happening with your thread. Don't worry about what to serve the Missionaries focus instead on preparing to hear their message. There is a story in the bible about Christ coming to visit two sisters the one worked and slaved in the kitchen, the other knelt at Christ's feet listening to him. When the hardworking one complained Christ admonished her about what was most important. (St. Luke Chapter 10 verse 38-41)

The message and your preparation and willingness to hear it is what is important not the setting it is given in nor the comfort of those giving it. Remember they willingly serve the Lord for two years of their life not to eat cookies, get gifts, or drink specific drinks but to share the message.

I've been to Investigators homes with the Missionaries where the Host was so concerned about appearing to be a good host they never sat and payed attention long enough to hear and ponder the messages!

I promise you that when the Missionaries leave your home they will not discuss how good a host you were but how much they felt the spirit of the Lord and how well they did on presenting the message to you and how well you might have received it.

PLEASE remember that they don't represent two young men or even the church, on their mission they represent the Lord and his ministry. They are present to serve you not have you serve them.

Edited October 12, 2010 by LDSVALLEY

[dahlia]

I have my cookies (2 kinds), my apple juice, and found some cute plastic glasses on sale. The downstairs is vacuumed, the pile of professor stuff that floats around the house is put up, and the guest bath is clean. Next time, we're going to have to meet in public; this is too much work!

I finally told my son, who is grown, that the missionaries stopped by and that they were coming over. To my surprise, he didn't call me nuts or anything. He's not against Mormons, he's just not religious. He lost his father at 14 and since then, has been your typical 'God didn't answer my prayers, why am I going to believe in God' kinda guy. He's not nasty about it; he just doesn't care, unless you're like that Phelps guy shouting at military funerals. He knows I've been reading all summer and I frequently pull him aside to tell him some new Mormon fact I've learned, so maybe he thought it was coming.

I appreciate your post, LDSValley. It was very thoughtful and even though I am anxious about presenting a decent appearance and being a little playful, I understand where my mind needs to be focused and why the missionaries are here.

[dahlia]

Well, the missionaries came and we had a nice chat. Or actually, 1 missionary and 1 local church member came. They asked if I had questions - which was when I remembered to print out my list. : ) I may have thrown them off their game a bit with all the questions as I got the feeling there is a set lesson or something they wanted to do.

The person from the church was a 1st year law student! This was great for me (the Lord works in mysterious ways, huh?) because before becoming a professor, I practiced law. I kept hitting the guy (nicely) with questions that required reason and logic and he kept coming back. He had done his missionary service and must have been really good, 'cause he was good with me!

As I mentioned in one of my early posts, I had doubts about a young person giving me the depth of information I want. I think I got good answers from the church member. The missionary did defer to the other young man's knowledge sometimes, but I didn't find it to be the problem that I thought it might be. We all have to start somewhere.

I am meeting with them next week, so I guess that's a good sign. I decided I'll shut up and let them talk. I might learn something.

[pam]

I'm glad it went well for you.