AndrewCothran Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 This is not meant to be offensive . ..I encountered these very disturbing assertions and I need to know if there is any validity to it ..
Gwen Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 the church does not teach either of those things.
AndrewCothran Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Posted October 28, 2010 the church does not teach either of those things.So this has never ever been apart of any of the LDS teachings period ?
Gwen Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 i've been in the church for 30 yrs and have never heard it taught. are there some members who say stupid things that are not doctrine? yes. is it possible someone has said it? yes. does the lds church teach it? nope.
Just_A_Guy Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 The LDS Church does teach that other churches do not teach the "whole" Gospel - that the church started by Jesus was corrupted over time. But satanic, or having satanic works? Nope.
pam Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 Been a member for 53 years and I've never heard anything like that ever taught.
Jamie123 Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 I think Andrew may be referring to the words Joseph Smith reported that Christ said to him during his first vision:I was answered that I must join none of ... [the churches], for they were all wrong ...all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof. He again forbade me to join with any of them;
AndrewCothran Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) The LDS Church does teach that other churches do not teach the "whole" Gospel - that the church started by Jesus was corrupted over time. But satanic, or having satanic works? Nope.The basis for this assertion came from what used to go on in temple endowments [moderator note - please do not post temple content. Prior or current content - summary or otherwise. Thanks.]I fully understand the prohibition about discussing what goes on in the temple ..I am actually not asking about that i dont need to i already know ..The issue is what the LDS was trying to say ..and what might be implied even if their intent was not malicious ... It was very disturbing to me to learn for certain that this play and film even existed ,, Again this is not meant to offend anyone its very existence offends me .. Edited October 28, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon
AndrewCothran Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Posted October 28, 2010 Been a member for 53 years and I've never heard anything like that ever taught.that provides a wee bit of reassurance because you would know if that were taught ..thanks Pam
Jamie123 Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) The basis for this assertion came from what used to go on in temple endowments ...I fully understand the prohibition about discussing what goes on in the temple ..I am actually not asking about that i dont need to i already know ..The issue is what the LDS was trying to say ..and what might be implied even if their intent was not malicious ... It was very disturbing to me to learn for certain that this play and film even existed ,, Again this is not meant to offend anyone its very existence offends me ..Hmmm...I know the temple ceremony can nowadays be read online, but that doesn't mean that faithful Mormons will be any more willing to discuss it than in the days when it wasn't. As I understand it, the ceremony can only be discussed in the Celestial Room after the ceremony.I'm not criticizing your curiosity - I wonder about this same thing myself. I just doubt that you'll get much in the way of meaningful response about something that's a taboo subject. Edited October 28, 2010 by Jamie123 Edited out bits of quote referring to temple ceremony
AndrewCothran Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Posted October 28, 2010 Hmmm...I know the temple ceremony can nowadays be read online, but that doesn't mean that faithful Mormons will be any more willing to discuss it than in the days when it wasn't. As I understand it, the ceremony can only be discussed in the Celestial Room after the ceremony.I'm not criticizing your curiosity - I wonder about this same thing myself. I just doubt that you'll get much in the way of meaningful response about something that's a taboo subject.You may be right ..
pam Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 that provides a wee bit of reassurance because you would know if that were taught ..thanks Pam haha I guess age does have its advantages at times.
Soulsearcher Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 haha I guess age does have its advantages at times. I'll admit I'm surprised you can remember that far back.......
AndrewCothran Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Posted October 28, 2010 haha I guess age does have its advantages at times. Pam I just turned 34 wait till you get to my age ...you will know what old is then lol:lol:
Just_A_Guy Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) Andrew, the Mormon temple endowment is all about man's quest to know God. There are countless ideas and doctrines that can distract a person from this quest; earlier forms of the temple endowment singled out those most prevalent in nineteenth- and early-twentieth- century America because that's where most of the people who received that ordinance lived. The "sectarian minister" could just as easily have been a rabbi, a brahmin, an imam, or a secular humanist. It's not that the ministers are evil, or that everything that they teach is sinister in nature. It's that specific doctrines that they taught tended to separate man from God. Since, in the temple liturgy, that also happens to be Satan's primary function; it makes sense to present him as the originator of those ideas. But if you read the pre-1990 temple liturgy, though, you'll see that it actually made a point of exonerating the personal motivations of those sectarians who taught false doctrines. Edited October 28, 2010 by Just_A_Guy
Jamie123 Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 Andrew, the Mormon temple endowment is all about man's quest to know God. There are countless ideas and doctrines that can distract a person from this quest; earlier forms of the temple endowment singled out those most prevalent in nineteenth- and early-twentieth- century America because that's where most of the people who received that ordinance lived. The "sectarian minister" could just as easily have been a rabbi, a brahmin, an imam, or a secular humanist.It's not that the ministers are evil, or that everything that they teach is sinister in nature. It's that specific doctrines that they taught tended to separate man from God. Since, in the temple liturgy, that also happens to be Satan's primary function; it makes sense to present him as the originator of those ideas. But if you read the pre-1990 temple liturgy, though, you'll see that it actually made a point of exonerating the personal motivations of those sectarians who taught false doctrines.LOL - I stand corrected! Very interesting perspective - thanks :) I wonder though - were the Protestant clergy really the most prevalent influence in 19th Century America?
Just_A_Guy Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) LOL - I stand corrected! Very interesting perspective - thanks :)I don't really like to do it; and wouldn't discuss it merely for the sake of discussion. But on the off-chance that it was a sincere question regarding something that's a genuine stumbling block to the questioner, I suppose it deserves a direct (if none-too-detailed) answer. I wonder though - were the Protestant clergy really the most prevalent influence in 19th Century America?I think so. We Yanks have always been a pretty puritanical bunch. Edited October 28, 2010 by Just_A_Guy
Gwen Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 when any church makes the claim that they have a fullness of truth while others have lost some of that truth it leaves the implication that all other churches are under an "influence" other than the source of truth. in the christian world those opposing forces are god and satan. so if it's not of god then it's.....? of satan, would be the obvious/logical answer. i have heard ppl take this "logic" to extreme and profess that all other churches are "the church of the devil". that however, to my understanding, is not "lds doctrine". we are told that truth and good things can be found in many many places, including other churches. having all the truth vs some of the truth is very different from being satanic. lds doctrine also professes that at the end of life everyone will be judged on what they knew and what they did with what they knew. if someone lives only knowing of one church and they live that to the best they can they will be judged the same as an lds person who does the same. they will be better off in the next life than an lds person that rarely tries or just decides to not act on something they know. only god knows what we truly know (as opposed to what others think that person should know). i don't recall which meeting it was in but pres. monson quoted mother teresa recently. that ought to tell you something about how we should feel about the thoughts of righteous ppl from other faiths.
pam Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 i don't recall which meeting it was in but pres. monson quoted mother teresa recently. that ought to tell you something about how we should feel about the thoughts of righteous ppl from other faiths. In the Relief Society session he quoted Mother Teresa as saying: “If you judge people, you have no time to love them.”
bytor2112 Posted October 28, 2010 Report Posted October 28, 2010 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the cdevil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
AndrewCothran Posted October 29, 2010 Author Report Posted October 29, 2010 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the cdevil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.The verse is true in that there is really only one true Church that church CONSISTS OF ALL BELIEVERS in Christ ..That is all who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and of course have been regenerated by the Holy Ghost ..
AndrewCothran Posted October 29, 2010 Author Report Posted October 29, 2010 I don't really like to do it; and wouldn't discuss it merely for the sake of discussion. But on the off-chance that it was a sincere question regarding something that's a genuine stumbling block to the questioner, I suppose it deserves a direct (if none-too-detailed) answer. I think so. We Yanks have always been a pretty puritanical bunch. I have high blood pressure and I suffer from OCD so I need to write what is pertinent to me and yet not get too upset and loose sleep over what you have written to me in PMS your edited post and this one above which calls into question my honesty ... Jesus taught that we should treat others the way we wish to be treated ..I am going to take his advice here I would appreciate it if you would do the same . My part is to remember that we all make off handed remarks .If i have offended you i ask for your forgiveness. I forgive you for offending me ..And as you put it nuff said .. May God Bless You Andy :)
NeuroTypical Posted October 29, 2010 Report Posted October 29, 2010 Hi Andrew,Please note, this site is here, so folks can talk and learn about the LDS faith and its members. It's not really here for members of other faiths to "make things abundantly clear" to LDS people. If you want a podium from which to proclaim your faith, you'll have to look elsewhere.If you like, you can post about your faith on the Christian Beliefs area of this website.Thanks,LM
AndrewCothran Posted October 29, 2010 Author Report Posted October 29, 2010 Hi Andrew,Please note, this site is here, so folks can talk and learn about the LDS faith and its members. It's not really here for members of other faiths to "make things abundantly clear" to LDS people. If you want a podium from which to proclaim your faith, you'll have to look elsewhere.If you like, you can post about your faith on the Christian Beliefs area of this website.Thanks,LMI have no regrets about what I posted and I will not apologize for it in fact I stand by it with every fiber of my being .. As for podiums I don't need one that is not my intent but every thing I wrote was absolutely true . I will not be censored by you or anyone for telling the truth and or expressing what I believe . According to your own articles of faith you respect the right to do so for all people ..I am no exception ..Besides its actually in accordance with the discussion . Sometimes certain things need to be made abundantly clear to others .. In this case it is essential that others do not think that the LDS or Book of Mormon declares that any other church is satanic ,,,Or does it ? That verse taken out of context would certainly suggest that . I am choosing not to take that position and yes making the truth of the matter known that all true christians belong to ONE TRUE CHURCH . I understand the LDS believes that means them and them alone but i don't ..Now will i debate anyone about that ..no not here ..that would be out of place ..but will i stand up for what i believe and KNOW to be true that you count on ..And I would think that you would welcome those who think and believe differently than you provided that they are not attacking you in which case I haven't ..That is all the justification you will be getting from me however the problem is in your mind not my own ..
GADBabaganoosh Posted October 29, 2010 Report Posted October 29, 2010 The only satanic church is the church of satan.
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