Loss of Blessings?

[SaturdayLove]

I was just thinking of how Bishops, Sunday School leaders would say that if you have pre-marital sex, you lose your blessings...

I really don't quite get that... I know people who have,had, premarital sex a lot of the times and they're off much better than me.. and I'm a Mormon... I pray for things ... I still don't get them....and they, screw around and somehow get everthing

[Mute]

Premarital sex is a controversial subject. Some find it wrong. Others do not. I don't know what blessings you would gain by not having sex but you would avoid the risk of catching an std or pregnancy.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I hear you on this one -- most people know I abstained right up until marriage and then found my spouse was incapable fo sex for a decade afterwards. Sheer torment. Talk about not seeing blessings from being faithful. In fact, the lack of intimacy caused a lot of other problems when we tried to adopt a child through LDS Social Services -- and got rejected due to the perceived risks non-consummation posed to the stability of the marriage. So, that was a double whammy of non-blessings that rocked my testimony for a while.

But you know, I'm still glad I abstained. It's something I can view in myself as a source of character and self-esteem, something I intend to hold out on judgment day to shore up my case (if an opportunity is given to share it), and I'm in a firm position to teach abstinence to my children. Absolutely no hypocrisy there. I can talk about abstinence with power and authority, and about sacrifice for covenants in general with pure knowledge and authority -- because that's what I am. Plus my wife knows she married a good man. These things count for something in the eyes of God, in my view, and they are important to me. Now that it's over, I'm glad I stuck it out and did what was right.

Also, you have many blessings coming your way in the future -- in fact, if you're like me, the fact that you chose the high road should increase your faith when asking for blessings. What you're doing in staying chaste will eventually be instrumental in making it rain when your life experiences a temporal or spiritual drought. So hang in there -- it's worth it -- and look at my words as a voice from the future -- I suspect you are fairly young --I'm in my late forties looking back over almost 3 generations of adulthood -- and I respect the young man named Mormonmusic for what he did. You will also have that blessing oif viewing SaturdayLove as a young woman from the eyes of a seasoned lady eventually, and you will look at that part of your life with deep respect for the rest of eternity.

If it's any help, I respect you deeply for what you're doing because I know what it takes, and its a credit to your character and who you are that you've come this far.

Edited December 19, 2010 by mormonmusic

[mightynancy]

I think it's a mistake to think of God as a vending machine. "I do something right, I get a blessing. I do something wrong, I don't get a blessing." It misses the point of complying with God's will and making the most of the plan of salvation. It also makes no sense in the light of what you observe around you.

Fundamentally, the objective of our experience on earth is exaltation. How am I going to transform my natural self into an exalted woman? How do I access the atonement? How will I become more like God?

What you see also exposes the idiocy of the idea that righteousness will bring worldly success. Getting a great job isn't always a blessing from God. Being popular isn't always a blessing from God. Some things just happen because of the nature of the world. The other side of this is that crappy things aren't punishments from God. Lost your job? I don't think God did that to you. Lose your boyfriend? I don't think God did that to you. Get sick? I don't think God did that to you.

I find more peace when I focus less on getting, and more on becoming.

[pam]

I tend to follow Mightynancy's line of thinking. I might add, when you say they get everything, are you referring to worldly things?

When not following the commandments you lose the Spirit. That is probably the biggest blessing you could lose. Much more valuable than any worldly things.

[slamjet]

I've got a brother who is exactly like you say. He's not active in the church, got a great job, cars, girls, etc. I'm divorced, underemployed, alone, etc. But I can tell you that when I lost everything, I learned where to get what really mattered in life, my spirituality and the gospel. I'm in much better spirits than I was a few years ago. Him? I don't know. We haven't spoken in about a decade. But when he was playing basketball and got his front teeth knocked out, he went on a tirade because he was loosing his looks. So much so that he got pissed when his brother didn't pay attention to him about it. His brother was in the hospital with his wife in labor. I can assure you that I wouldn't want to be around if the world collapses in on him.

[NeuroTypical]

I don't know what blessings you would gain by not having [premarital] sex but you would avoid the risk of catching an std or pregnancy.

You don't? Well, let me list a few. From the top of my head:

* Worthiness to go to the temple and be sealed to the person you pick to marry.

* Closeness to God.

* Odds of finding someone who was saving himself for you, are increased.

* Less chance of creating a life, just so you can abandon or abort it, or increase it's chances of poverty, incarceration, and lower IQ than lives created within a marriage.

There are others.

LM

[Just_A_Guy]

Just this Friday, I told a guy paying $1700 a month in child support that no, legally he can't reduce that amount just because he lost his job.

You can bet he's wishing he'd abstained from premarital sex.

[Mute]

You don't? Well, let me list a few. From the top of my head:

* Worthiness to go to the temple and be sealed to the person you pick to marry.

* Closeness to God.

* Odds of finding someone who was saving himself for you, are increased.

* Less chance of creating a life, just so you can abandon or abort it, or increase it's chances of poverty, incarceration, and lower IQ than lives created within a marriage.

There are others.

LM

I probably wouldn't consider all of those blessings but I can understand if you do. You don't believe someone can be close to God if they have premarital sex or do you mean they will be close to God if they don't have premarital sex? I'd have to disagree with kids having a lower IQ if they're not raised within a marriage though. The poverty of a child may be higher if it's a single parent but not always.

"I have told many groups of young people that they should not postpone their marriage until they have acquired all of their education ambitions. I have told tens of thousands of young folks that when they marry they should not wait for children until they have finished their schooling and financial desires. Marriage is basically for the family, and there should be no long delay. They should live together normally and let the children come. . ."

(Spencer W. Kimball, "Marriage is Honorable," Speeches of the Year, 1973, p. 263)

I'm getting the impression that having enough money isn't something Spencer W. Kimball thinks couples should worry about before having children. So why should I a single parent? Now it's a big job to be a single parent. It takes up a lot of time and cause a lot of stress on someone but I don't find it wrong to be a single parent.

If you didn't believe in the Bible, would you still find premarital sex wrong? Even if my life depended on it, I wouldn't be able to provide reasons for why I felt it was wrong. I could tell reasons for why I think it's wrong to hit your little brother or why it's wrong to rob a bank but I couldn't name one reason for why I felt premarital sex was wrong. It has risks like everything but it just doesn't seem wrong to me. I'm not promoting someone go out and have premarital sex. I'm just saying I can't see reason behind the belief that it is wrong or that premarital sex is a sin other than simply because people believe it to be wrong based on the Bible. I have no problem with others believing it to be wrong.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Just this Friday, I told a guy paying $1700 a month in child support that no, legally he can't reduce that amount just because he lost his job.

You can bet he's wishing he'd abstained from premarital sex.

I wanted to say something like that in my rant above, but a lot of people would say "that wouldn't happen to me, I'd be careful" or something like that. I see your reason as another powerful one to stay clean until you're in a committed relationship.

[MorningStar]

In the Gospel, success isn't measured by the things, money, etc. that you have. Blessings you lose when breaking the commandments are the companionship of the Holy Ghost, your temple recommend, etc. Premarital sex can cause you to have to deal with STD's for the rest of your life or a pregnancy that leads to heartache. Whether you keep the baby or not, it is a very difficult situation.

I think it's a mistake to think that if you obey, only good things happen to you and if you don't, bad things happen. We will all have trials no matter how obedient we are.

[pam]

Premarital sex is a controversial subject. Some find it wrong. Others do not. I don't know what blessings you would gain by not having sex but you would avoid the risk of catching an std or pregnancy.

Premarital sex shouldn't be a controversial subject amongst Latter Day Saints. It's black and white.

[mightynancy]

In the Gospel, success isn't measured by the things, money, etc. that you have.

You are absolutely right. But, in the church (the church culture if you will), this very often happens. "Oh, look how blessed they are." I actually had an adult, returned missionary ward member wonder why my husband was laid off when "you guys aren't doing anything wrong." She was honestly confused. I was honestly unhinged. It showed a real lack of understanding of the plan of salvation.

[Dravin]

You are absolutely right. But, in the church (the church culture if you will), this very often happens. "Oh, look how blessed they are." I actually had an adult, returned missionary ward member wonder why my husband was laid off when "you guys aren't doing anything wrong." She was honestly confused. I was honestly unhinged. It showed a real lack of understanding of the plan of salvation.

You should have responded with, "Oh... so that explains President Kimball's throat cancer. It was all the the things he was doing wrong." or if one wanted to stick with something financial I would have mentioned Hugh Hefner and done a reverse, "All that money! Must mean he's doing all the right things..."

[ryanh]

I probably wouldn't consider all of those blessings but I can understand if you do. You don't believe someone can be close to God if they have premarital sex or do you mean they will be close to God if they don't have premarital sex? I'd have to disagree with kids having a lower IQ if they're not raised within a marriage though. The poverty of a child may be higher if it's a single parent but not always.

Part of what you are missing Mute is specific to LDS. By priesthood ordinance, we are given the Gift of the companionship of the Holy Ghost. By sinning, we are no longer worthy of that Gift. Thus, we find ourselves much further from God than we were pre-sin. Sure, our hearts might still be turned towards God (as much as they can be given our state of open rebellion against His commandments), but we are most certainly further away.

I was just thinking of how Bishops, Sunday School leaders would say that if you have pre-marital sex, you lose your blessings...

I really don't quite get that... I know people who have,had, premarital sex a lot of the times and they're off much better than me.. and I'm a Mormon... I pray for things ... I still don't get them....and they, screw around and somehow get everthing

I know of people that have pre-marital sex and have great lives. I know of people that have pre-marital sex and have terrible lives. So, what does pre-marital sex have to do with being "better off"? Nothing!!!

SaturdayLove, how about you expound a little bit more about what is really going on? We can't help with how generic your post is. Are you having envy for sexual activity of friends? Are you depressed about prayers not being answered? Are you struggling with your testimony and whether the Plan of Salvation is real? What specifically are your thoughts that prompted this post?

[NeuroTypical]

Even if my life depended on it, I wouldn't be able to provide reasons for why I felt it was wrong.

Have you checked out the would like some advice... if possible thread today?

16 yrs ago he made a stupid mistake, he repented and she forgave him they got married and had a beautiful family.

...

the girl in question did it would appear have a child 15yrs ago

...

she is just going through hell

...

But she ( my friend) is in awful turmoil. She is losing weight and can't sleep for fear of CSA paperwork dropping through the door.

...

my friend is staying in my spare room

If your life depended on it, could you now provide a reason why out of wedlock nookie can be wrong? Can we send this lady to go live in your spare room?

LM

[Backroads]

Studies have shown:

1. People who cohabitate before/instead of marriage are more likely to find themselves in abusive/subserviant relationshps.

2. People who wait until marriage report better sex lives.

3. Many teenagers are not physically or emotionally ready for sex. They can damage their bodies, and the emotional impact of high school boy or girl dumping them will be much higher after sex has been experienced.

I also think that saying the only people who wait til marriage are those that believe in the Bible is a very unresearched phrase. How do you explain the believers of so many other faiths (and atheism!) who decided to wait for the commitment of marriage? And how do you explain the many Christians who have no qualms with pre-marital sex?

I read a great quote the other day about people who have premarital sex while claiming commitment. "Here's how to know if you have a commitment. If you're married, you have one. If you're not, you don't." The man went on to say that ANYTHING can change before a marriage.

Now that isn't to say that marriage=commitment, but that commmitment=marriage.

[slamjet]

What I find scary is the number of folks who take not having pre-marital sex to it's limit, so to speak (yea, I'll admit to being one of them who got figuratively slapped back pretty hard). My oldest is in BYU. If there is ever a place where kids are pushing the line, it's there. She told me the other day that she sees steamed up cars all the time from kids trying to stay "chaste." To her, and to me, these kids have not committed to the idea of chastity. A commitment means not to push the line, but to stay well away from it.

She also told me that she couldn't go on a date there because that signals you want to get married right away. She's not up for that yet.

[Backroads]

What I find scary is the number of folks who take not having pre-marital sex to it's limit, so to speak (yea, I'll admit to being one of them who got figuratively slapped back pretty hard). My oldest is in BYU. If there is ever a place where kids are pushing the line, it's there. She told me the other day that she sees steamed up cars all the time from kids trying to stay "chaste." To her, and to me, these kids have not committed to the idea of chastity. A commitment means not to push the line, but to stay well away from it.

She also told me that she couldn't go on a date there because that signals you want to get married right away. She's not up for that yet.

I think the Law of Chasity is so much more than a simple yes-or-no-did-you-have-intercourse? question. I've run into people who feel they are being chaste because they have done everything-but. Now I think a lot of what is okay/what isn't truly is up to personal interpretation and comfort, but I don't think everything but sex is necessarily okay in premarital relationships.

[rameumptom]

It is all an issue of whether we are looking at worldly success or eternal success. We are here on earth to obtain experience and develop wisdom through our trials and adversity. Losing a job, or a loved one, is a temporary trial that will be replaced with great rewards for those who patiently endure with faith in God.

God has rules for us that are designed to give us the maximum happiness and joy here and in the eternities. Satan takes God's gifts and rules and twists them. He promises instant pleasure and gratification, in exchange for our eternal joy.

Those having pre-marital sex or any extra-marital sexual relations, lose their eternal blessings. It is not easy to have these restored. And we pass our sins and casual attitude towards God to future generations. And it can affect us in mortality. Extra-marital sex is the leading cause of AIDS and other STDs. Children born out of wedlock have a very high chance of growing up in poverty and ignorance, and usually end up repeating the mistakes of their parents.

[mightynancy]

It is all an issue of whether we are looking at worldly success or eternal success.

I took three paragraphs to say this.

[Mute]

Have you checked out the would like some advice... if possible thread today?

If your life depended on it, could you now provide a reason why out of wedlock nookie can be wrong? Can we send this lady to go live in your spare room?

LM

No. I still couldn't. This situation does not apply to everyone. It's not a universal situation which applies to everyone who does this. I believe the father should have found out if he had a child or not. He should have taken responsibility for it. I'm not saying that I think people shouldn't take responsibility for their actions. The mother did take responsibility. I don't think she did anything wrong by that. That is my opinion.

I already admitted that abstaining from sex can help prevent pregnancy and and stds. I wouldn't say the risk of those makes it wrong though. There are risks involved and some times things don't go how we want them to. There are risks involved in skydiving too. There are risks involved in driving a car. I don't consider it wrong because something unfortunate can happen. If someone has a child, I think they should take responsibility for it. If they don't want the responsibility, then I believe they should put the child up for adoption or be willing to take care of the child should they have one unintentionally. I understand if you disagree with me. This is only my opinion.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Mute

[NeuroTypical]

This situation does not apply to everyone. It's not a universal situation which applies to everyone who does this.

The fact that a horrible outcome isn't always the result, is sufficient justification to not be against something? Does that hold true for other things like espionage and child pornography? Those things don't always end up with a universal situation which applies to everyone who does it either.

And I'd also like to point out that yes indeed, just about every single child out there born out of wedlock, was also conceived out of wedlock. Not all, but most.

LM

[Backroads]

Now some of the finest people I know are people who have broken pretty much every Mormon rule out there or never followed it. And I know plenty of by-the-book people who are awful. Doesn't change the fact that it's a commandment that does have a lot of evidence supporting it.

[hordak]

The fact that a horrible outcome isn't always the result, is sufficient justification to not be against something? Does that hold true for other things like espionage and child pornography? Those things don't always end up with a universal situation which applies to everyone who does it either.

LM

On the flip side you know the fact that although a horrible outcome is sometime the result, it is not sufficient justification to be against something.

You wouldn't hold that to be true for other things like gun ownership and motorcycles would you? Those things don't always end up with a universal situation which applies to everyone who does it either and you would take that into consideration, in the same way Mute is looking at this issue.

What Mute is saying is that premarital sex (from a secular perspective) might have risk, but the fact that it's misused and ends up bad for some doesn't mean it is wrong in the same way in which you or i might defend the right to gun ownership.

That being said OP making decisions based on other life is not a good idea. Bill Gates and Steve Zuckerburg make more in a month then i will see in a year. They both dropped out of college, and are doing great. However i doubt you will find many who would advocate, skipping out on the college education because it worked for them.

Edited December 21, 2010 by hordak