The national debt

[Guest brettlee]

Hi

Government debt (also known as public debt) is money (or credit) owed by any level of government

[Still_Small_Voice]

In light of current events I thought I would bring this thread up again.

I just sent this message to both my Senators and my Representative in the House:

"Congress needs to pass a balanced budget. If you were to stack our National Debt up in $100 bills the stack would be close to 9,500 miles long. When is the madness going to end? If we do not stop this out of control spending there will not be an America in the future. Congress is responsible for the National Budget. Please make a stand for America and be a man of principle."

America has 14.5 trillion in debt now. I do not think the dollar will be worth anything if our Congress continues to spend like this in several years. I hope I am wrong saying this as well.

[Guest Sachi001]

Everyone talks about an balanced budget amendment. However that would still lay it at the whim of politicians. You need to take that factor out. We need a Constitutional Amendment for a balanced budget ratified by the people as a mandate, and take the game out of the politicians hands.

[Dravin]

Everyone talks about an balanced budget amendment. However that would still lay it at the whim of politicians. You need to take that factor out. We need a Constitutional Amendment for a balanced budget ratified by the people as a mandate, and take the game out of the politicians hands.

In my experience when people talk about a balanced budget amendment what they are talking about is a constitutional amendment (context of state or national budget determines if they're talking about state or national consitution) requiring a balanced budget. So, for me at least, your post reads like a call that we don't need a half dozen eggs, but six eggs.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Dravin

[slamjet]

In California, we voted in to withhold pay to our state congress-folks if they don't pass a balances budget in time. This past June, they forfeited a bunch of pay. And no, it's lost, they don't get those monies back. I tell you what, they sure got the budget balanced and passes really quickly after they were told they were working for free.

[MarginOfError]

I wish I could remember the details, but in my economics class in college, I remember learning something about how having some level of debt helps keep inflation under control. So a completely balanced budget could also have negative side effects (this is why I hate economics).

[slamjet]

But then we had balanced budgets with economic growth at the same time. I think people are becoming more and more risk adverse to the point of paranoia. They can't handle the cyclical economic cycle because they can't handle loosing anything. It's all back to the entitlement generation.

[MarginOfError]

But then we had balanced budgets with economic growth at the same time. I think people are becoming more and more risk adverse to the point of paranoia. They can't handle the cyclical economic cycle because they can't handle loosing anything. It's all back to the entitlement generation.

I know I sound crazy, but you can have a balanced budget and still incur debt. You just have to keep some of your money in the bank to not spend it (hmmmm...good fiscal policy?)

[Still_Small_Voice]

I know I sound crazy, but you can have a balanced budget and still incur debt. You just have to keep some of your money in the bank to not spend it (hmmmm...good fiscal policy?)

I apologize if the following sounds very passionate. Our Congress is out of control. They do not know what a little bit of debt is. They want to spend and spend and then spend some more. The American people need to throw whoever wants to do this out of office. We need terms limits for the Senate. Almost all of these Senators are just stinking up the office they fill with their corruption.

I do not want lies about how we will "someday" balance the budget. I want something done this year. This needs to stop before it causes really bad inflation or worst.

[prophetofdoom]

All this paper fiat currencies and paper debt instruments have 0 intrinsic value. We are all being conned in paying of this "debt" that is artificially created. Cutting government services will not pay of this "debt." Most of the debt was conned on the American people by the Banking Cartel.

We are already in a depression that is being artificially propped up by debt. This ponzi scheme will end eventually. Meanwhile, the mega elite are buying up all REAL TANGIBLE ASSETS for pennies on the dollar through their debt creation schemes.

[john doe]

These guys are starting to chap my....... behind. The Republicans are getting mad at each other for not compromising enough, and the Democrats are not even bringing anything to the table to compromise with. Time to start another 'toss all of them out' campaign.

[Guest Sachi001]

These guys are starting to chap my....... behind. The Republicans are getting mad at each other for not compromising enough, and the Democrats are not even bringing anything to the table to compromise with. Time to start another 'toss all of them out' campaign.

A case of too many cooks spoil the soup or too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. Now you know why Cromwell after beheading a King had to become Lord Protector and establish dictatorial rules. Because Parliament was bickering like little temper tantrum children all the time while England starved and was broke. Congress is the same and our President doesn't lead. That's the weakness of a democracy and we are rife for a Caesar to occur soon.

[Guest Sachi001]

In my experience when people talk about a balanced budget amendment what they are talking about is a constitutional amendment (context of state or national budget determines if they're talking about state or national Constitution) requiring a balanced budget. So, for me at least, your post reads like a call that we don't need a half dozen eggs, but six eggs.

No Congress is talking not a Constitutional amendment, but just an added law to this bill that they can control and not the president.

[Dravin]

No Congress is talking not a Constitutional amendment, but just an added law to this bill that they can control and not the president.

Oh okay, your phrasing was confusing because congress is not everyone and talk of a balance budget amendment (constitutional) predates congress's current shenanigans. It wasn't clear you were making a comment about current events.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Dravin

[Just_A_Guy]

A case of too many cooks spoil the soup or too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. Now you know why Cromwell after beheading a King had to become Lord Protector and establish dictatorial rules. Because Parliament was bickering like little temper tantrum children all the time while England starved and was broke. Congress is the same and our President doesn't lead. That's the weakness of a democracy and we are rife for a Caesar to occur soon.

Cromwell's speech was a master-stroke. Don't know if I can say the same for his rule.

It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!

[bcguy]

If we inflate dollars, we can easily pay off our debt. Just be ready for hyper-inflation for consumers. If you think food and gas cost a lot right now, you haven't seen anything.

This is why I want to own some rich agriculture land and grow my own veggtible garden to be be self sustaining. I was visiting oregon for a week as a part of my vacation and noticed how decent the grain harvest is doing. Food will still be a needed requirment, everything else second during a depression.

In the Weimar Republic (Germany), they did exactly this to pay off their huge debts. It soon took a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread. Desperation led to the people electing Hitler. A decade, millions of deaths, and hundreds of billions of dollars later (in money of their time, today it would be trillions), they pulled out of that debt, But only with a huge infusion of money from the USA. We forced democracy upon them in exchange for that giant loan.

There's no one to bail us out except China and the Arab world. I'm not so certain I want to go down that road. I would much rather cut back on all government, including Medicare, SS, defense, etc. Bring our troops home from overseas. Allow people to die at the age of 75, instead of keeping them propped up with expensive surgeries and procedures beyond that point (unless they have personal insurance). Increase the age of retirement for Social Security, and privatize most of it. Allow people to live and manage risks, so that we become a strong nation again; rather than a nation of piglets that are sucking the sow dry.

Let's take our medicine, and be strong like the men and women of former years. The "greatest generation" wasn't called that because they demanded government programs. They were called that because they were not afraid to sacrifice, whether in the War or at home on the farm. Time for us to sacrifice, and focus on liberty, rather than on stuff.

Food storage is inflation hedge and never looses value no matter what the market is doing.

[bcguy]

Just a few things I want to add.

I am just about home while on vacation on the oregon coast. I was being fairly observant and asked a few people visiting on how there economy in there city was doing. some were stable, because the city was not involved in the .housing bust.

Secondly, take a look at this article.

World Debt is Unpayable, The Only Solution is Monetary Collapse

When will the americans get it, that you cannot live the lifestyle you like to live, without its financial consequences?

Second, I have thought of moving to a "affordable" city where income is more inline with rent and living expensese. There would be less rain as a nice benifit. I am a west coast person. Was thinking of oregon, but heard oregon is in not good shape. Living in Vancouver BC is "WAY to cost prohibative" other then the nice benifits of its medical system.

Edited July 30, 2011 by bcguy

[Just_A_Guy]

This never hit me until I saw it in a recent online article:

Ever notice how those who want us to revert to 1950s taxes shrink with horror at the thought of our reverting to 1950s spending?

[Guest tbaird22]

World debt is unpayable article: "The destruction of the ECB and the euro zone, which would in part destroy the Illuminist drive into world government."

..........

[HoosierGuy]

My how times have changed. In reality - they are hypocrites.

Edited July 31, 2011 by john doe
deleted link to political site

[prophetofdoom]

The World Debt isn't payable. If one researches how our modern day debt based system works, you cannot pay down the principle and expect the economy to boom. The way the bankers set up this debt creation system, one has to infinitely expand debt creation in order to expand the economy.

In order for the economy to expand, banks have to loan money. Banks have to receive a loan from the Federal Reserve in order to lend the money out.

The money entering the system is done through credit expansion. The banks have created a system in which we have to be further mired in debt to be able to grow the economy.

If we pay off all the "national debt"... money contracts and leaves the system.

[slamjet]

Before the Millennium, we'll have bills like this one. And it will all be because a bunch of dudes (both isles, it mattereth naught) in Washington decided that to pay off the debt, we need to print more money. Well, there was one country who is trying that. We need to stop this lunacy of bribing the voters with "free" medical, "free" welfare, "free" unemployment, "free" anything. There needs to be a concerted effort to give the States more power over their own spending and destiny. Washington needs to get smaller and start abiding by the Constitution, for which they all are trampling, big time. We're in the home stretch to living in a nations of Nephite-like unbelievers.

But I find no hope for any recovery because the powerful protect themselves. This is why we need to stay out of debt, get prepared and stay close to the Lord. The Nephite and Lamanite faithfuls who were destroyed because of the wickedness of others are doing well in the spirit world. I really, truly believe and can see the whole Book of Mormon history repeating itself before our very eyes. What's scary is the speed and the sudden and quick acceleration of disasters within the last decade alone.

[bcguy]

This CNN video shows all the presidents and congress debating, blaming, and not taking action on the US debt issues.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

[lizzy16]

Sidenote:

I was talking to my frined Kyle, who lives in Irealnd. He said the USA owes the UK like 300 trillion. And, i did this math..and somehow figured that by diving the debt by US population each citzen would have to pay 978 bucks to each UKer. And, the US owes money to other places too.

Just a little tidbit. Not sure if my math is right..

[ThatLDSKiD]

We need to stop printing money, which devalues the dollar, we need to cut wasteful spending and decrease public sector jobs that can be easily replaced by private sector jobs. I think we should have term limits for congressmen and senators, since they consider their job as a career, not public service. We also should abandon the income tax and establish a flat tax (only 53% of Americans pay taxes and 73% of revenues come from the top 3% and the bottom 10% of Americans make a 6% annual income increase from government benefits). The government should also become more decentralized and restore its structure back to the Federalist concepts. America should be America, but it doesn't have to be a melting pot. The point of creating states was for political diversity. Reagan said it best, "vote with your feet."

However, before any of this happens we need to stop blaming the politicians completely, since we are the ones who elect them. America needs to change its standards and principles back to how they originally were. We need to bring back Faith in God into our society, which is being mercilessly attacked in these current days. Once we bring God back into our country, Heavenly Father will help us to fix everything. Parents, abide by the words of Joseph Smith when he explained, "I teach correct principles and let them govern themselves." Teach your children and let them act accordingly. Maybe one day our debt will be paid off and America will once again be the real America.

By the way everybody...WATCH GLENN BECK! he isn't crazy like the left media says, but he is LDS. he doesn't talk politics anymore, he talks about "faith, hope, and charity" a phrase he coined from the Scriptures