The national debt

[rameumptom]

Just so you all know, our national debt is about to equal and then surpass our Gross Domestic Product. IOW, if every dollar created in the United States this year was put into paying the deficit, we would almost pay it off this year. Of course, no one would get paid, there would be no money for anything else in the government budget, and we would all be sitting in the dark with no food.

The last time the debt was as big as the GDP was during WWII, when we just completed the Great Depression, and sent millions of men into battle.

Debt now equals total U.S. economy - Washington Times

Of course, the proposed budget for this year is $3.73 Trillion dollars. If we were to equally tax every man, woman and child in the USA for their portion of this, we would all have to cough up over $12,000. But don't worry, about $2 Trillion of this is going to be paid off by borrowing more, the most we've ever borrowed in history.

NationalJournal.com - What Could You Do With $3.73 Trillion? - Monday, February 14, 2011

Sadly, the American people have not yet learned their lesson. They don't want taxes increased, they want the budget cut, but they don't want any of their personal stuff cut (Social Security, Medicare, etc). IOW, as a people, we hate our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren, because we are leaving them a giant debt for their inheritance, just so 90 year olds can get hip replacements today.

Time for us to demand from our leaders that they make the tough choices, and that we'll take our harsh medicine. Raise my Social Security retirement age! Cut my Medicare benefits! Stop my unemployment after 6 months!

If I have to lose my house and move in with family members, I'll do it. If I have to work an extra 10 years until retirement, I'll gladly do it. If I have to enter into retirement age as a poor person, and eat dog food, I'll chow down just fine.

If I end up dying at 65 or 70 because I don't get that $1million Medicare surgery, then that is okay, as long as my grand kids don't have to pay for it the rest of their lives.

Can we just agree that we'll happily suffer for a few years and then die peacefully, so our kids and grand-kids can have a chance at the American dream?

[Blackmarch]

Just so you all know, our national debt is about to equal and then surpass our Gross Domestic Product. IOW, if every dollar created in the United States this year was put into paying the deficit, we would almost pay it off this year. Of course, no one would get paid, there would be no money for anything else in the government budget, and we would all be sitting in the dark with no food.

The last time the debt was as big as the GDP was during WWII, when we just completed the Great Depression, and sent millions of men into battle.

Debt now equals total U.S. economy - Washington Times

Of course, the proposed budget for this year is $3.73 Trillion dollars. If we were to equally tax every man, woman and child in the USA for their portion of this, we would all have to cough up over $12,000. But don't worry, about $2 Trillion of this is going to be paid off by borrowing more, the most we've ever borrowed in history.

NationalJournal.com - What Could You Do With $3.73 Trillion? - Monday, February 14, 2011

Sadly, the American people have not yet learned their lesson. They don't want taxes increased, they want the budget cut, but they don't want any of their personal stuff cut (Social Security, Medicare, etc). IOW, as a people, we hate our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren, because we are leaving them a giant debt for their inheritance, just so 90 year olds can get hip replacements today.

Time for us to demand from our leaders that they make the tough choices, and that we'll take our harsh medicine. Raise my Social Security retirement age! Cut my Medicare benefits! Stop my unemployment after 6 months!

If I have to lose my house and move in with family members, I'll do it. If I have to work an extra 10 years until retirement, I'll gladly do it. If I have to enter into retirement age as a poor person, and eat dog food, I'll chow down just fine.

If I end up dying at 65 or 70 because I don't get that $1million Medicare surgery, then that is okay, as long as my grand kids don't have to pay for it the rest of their lives.

Can we just agree that we'll happily suffer for a few years and then die peacefully, so our kids and grand-kids can have a chance at the American dream?

isn't the majority of that debt what the government owes it's own citizens?

[rameumptom]

All of that debt is what the government owes somebody. Much of it is purchased by foreign nations (China, Japan, etc), or people who are not American.

Regardless of whether we owe it to ourselves or not, it affects the value of the dollar, which affects the cost of products, etc. If it isn't put under control soon, our nation could default on its loans, or it could enter into hyper-inflation so it can pay off debt with cheaper dollars. So, if you have $1000 in Savings Bonds, you could be paid off in dollars that are actually worth less than the dollars you purchased them with.

As long as there is huge debt by the federal government, money is tied up that cannot be used for investment by private business.

Finally, the government debt is OUR debt. For the amount of debt we'll possibly get this year, each man, woman and child would owe $12K. So if China, Japan, and Americans who hold government treasury securities demand payment, we have to cough it up.

[Traveler]

We will just do what we have always done - inflate our money. This is all a big deal - only if we make it so. Sure it hurts to inflate money but I just wanted to point out that your option is not the only one.

The Traveler

[prophetofdoom]

Paying off the national debt would be simple if the bankers didn't control everything.

1) Nationalize the Federal Reserve

2) Print money without interest attached to it via the Federal Reserve

3) Print, Print, Print..hyper-inflate and pay off the bankers

4) As more money enters circulation... raise the reserve requirements of fractional reserve banks.. this would off set the inflation caused by the printing.

[slamjet]

Paying off the national debt would be simple if the bankers didn't control everything.

1) Nationalize the Federal Reserve

2) Print money without interest attached to it via the Federal Reserve

3) Print, Print, Print..hyper-inflate and pay off the bankers

4) As more money enters circulation... raise the reserve requirements of fractional reserve banks.. this would off set the inflation caused by the printing.

I do believe they tried this in Zimbabwe.

[Saldrin]

[slamjet]

I do believe that crossed the line from a discussion of economics to politics. I foresee a locked thread in the near future.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I think about the enormous debt America has a lot. I own gold and silver coins and I want more food storage. I think America is going to see a financial meltdown within the next 15 years if drastic spending cuts are not made.

Edit: I do believe that a stack of 1 trillion dollars in 100 dollar bills is 678.66 miles high.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Still_Small_Voice

[slamjet]

Speaking in generalities, I believe that this whole financial crisis was cause by an attitude of wanting to do what we want, but not want's the consequences. If the banks, auto companies and banks were allowed to fail, we would be in an enormous recovery right now because the weak companies would have been worked out of the system. But people want to invest without losing money, they want to run a business into the ground without going bankrupt. This nation, and the world for that matter, is becoming risk-averse.

[Just_A_Guy]

Bah. Let's just make it look like we're Doing Something™ by submitting a budget that modestly reduces spending only until the next election, after which it goes up again. Kind of like this:

[source]

Better yet if the budget contains cuts that the White House knows there's no way in Hades will ever make it out of Congress.

[rameumptom]

If we inflate dollars, we can easily pay off our debt. Just be ready for hyper-inflation for consumers. If you think food and gas cost a lot right now, you haven't seen anything.

In the Weimar Republic (Germany), they did exactly this to pay off their huge debts. It soon took a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread. Desperation led to the people electing Hitler. A decade, millions of deaths, and hundreds of billions of dollars later (in money of their time, today it would be trillions), they pulled out of that debt, But only with a huge infusion of money from the USA. We forced democracy upon them in exchange for that giant loan.

There's no one to bail us out except China and the Arab world. I'm not so certain I want to go down that road. I would much rather cut back on all government, including Medicare, SS, defense, etc. Bring our troops home from overseas. Allow people to die at the age of 75, instead of keeping them propped up with expensive surgeries and procedures beyond that point (unless they have personal insurance). Increase the age of retirement for Social Security, and privatize most of it. Allow people to live and manage risks, so that we become a strong nation again; rather than a nation of piglets that are sucking the sow dry.

Let's take our medicine, and be strong like the men and women of former years. The "greatest generation" wasn't called that because they demanded government programs. They were called that because they were not afraid to sacrifice, whether in the War or at home on the farm. Time for us to sacrifice, and focus on liberty, rather than on stuff.

[Blackmarch]

If we inflate dollars, we can easily pay off our debt. Just be ready for hyper-inflation for consumers. If you think food and gas cost a lot right now, you haven't seen anything.

In the Weimar Republic (Germany), they did exactly this to pay off their huge debts. It soon took a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread. Desperation led to the people electing Hitler. A decade, millions of deaths, and hundreds of billions of dollars later (in money of their time, today it would be trillions), they pulled out of that debt, But only with a huge infusion of money from the USA. We forced democracy upon them in exchange for that giant loan.

There's no one to bail us out except China and the Arab world. I'm not so certain I want to go down that road. I would much rather cut back on all government, including Medicare, SS, defense, etc. Bring our troops home from overseas. Allow people to die at the age of 75, instead of keeping them propped up with expensive surgeries and procedures beyond that point (unless they have personal insurance). Increase the age of retirement for Social Security, and privatize most of it. Allow people to live and manage risks, so that we become a strong nation again; rather than a nation of piglets that are sucking the sow dry.

Let's take our medicine, and be strong like the men and women of former years. The "greatest generation" wasn't called that because they demanded government programs. They were called that because they were not afraid to sacrifice, whether in the War or at home on the farm. Time for us to sacrifice, and focus on liberty, rather than on stuff.

lol you beat me to it.. prolly said it better too.

[FunkyTown]

All of that debt is what the government owes somebody. Much of it is purchased by foreign nations (China, Japan, etc), or people who are not American.

Regardless of whether we owe it to ourselves or not, it affects the value of the dollar, which affects the cost of products, etc. If it isn't put under control soon, our nation could default on its loans, or it could enter into hyper-inflation so it can pay off debt with cheaper dollars. So, if you have $1000 in Savings Bonds, you could be paid off in dollars that are actually worth less than the dollars you purchased them with.

As long as there is huge debt by the federal government, money is tied up that cannot be used for investment by private business.

Finally, the government debt is OUR debt. For the amount of debt we'll possibly get this year, each man, woman and child would owe $12K. So if China, Japan, and Americans who hold government treasury securities demand payment, we have to cough it up.

You have a point, Ram. Cost-cutting measures now would mean that there would be an actual point to saving for retirement. It wouldn't take that long. Less than a decade of austerity measures and the country could get back on its feet economically.

You could then take the money just being put towards interest now and put that towards government programs. Heck - If you keep the taxes the same after the debt is paid off, you could have amazing government programs.

[applepansy]

Sadly, the American people have not yet learned their lesson. They don't want taxes increased, they want the budget cut, but they don't want any of their personal stuff cut (Social Security, Medicare, etc). IOW, as a people, we hate our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren, because we are leaving them a giant debt for their inheritance, just so 90 year olds can get hip replacements today.

Can we just agree that we'll happily suffer for a few years and then die peacefully, so our kids and grand-kids can have a chance at the American dream?

Nobody "happily" suffers. When we talk about cutting Social Security and Medicare we are not talking about cutting somebody's extra income. You're talking about a group of people who were promised that if they agreed to pay into Social Security their government would responsibly manage their retirement. Most people who pay into SS did not and do not make enough money to have the government steal money every pay day out of their check AND save money for retirement. Its one or the other. And the generation who allowed the government to implement Social Security never dreamed that decades later that same government would "borrow" from Social Security for other things, thereby increasing the National Debt.

Social Security would not even be a part of this discussion if our Government had been honest and not "borrowed" from the SS fund. The money would be there for generations to come.

I didn't vote to borrow from Social Security.

What it really comes down to is faith in government. And I don't have faith in ours anymore.

I have a question: When you cut Social Security and Medicare what are you going to do about all the people who depend on it and didn't have a choice about paying into it in the first place?

[Blackmarch]

Nobody "happily" suffers. When we talk about cutting Social Security and Medicare we are not talking about cutting somebody's extra income. You're talking about a group of people who were promised that if they agreed to pay into Social Security their government would responsibly manage their retirement. Most people who pay into SS did not and do not make enough money to have the government steal money every pay day out of their check AND save money for retirement. Its one or the other. And the generation who allowed the government to implement Social Security never dreamed that decades later that same government would "borrow" from Social Security for other things, thereby increasing the National Debt.

Social Security would not even be a part of this discussion if our Government had been honest and not "borrowed" from the SS fund. The money would be there for generations to come.

I didn't vote to borrow from Social Security.

What it really comes down to is faith in government. And I don't have faith in ours anymore.

I have a question: When you cut Social Security and Medicare what are you going to do about all the people who depend on it and didn't have a choice about paying into it in the first place?

well I think funky has a good point, the only thing i'd add is that to make real gains you have to make sacrifices, and real sacrifice hurts up front.

If you want to repair things then its going to hurt even more... but on the other hand not doing anything is going to lead to a situation where its going to be worse than that.

[applepansy]

well I think funky has a good point, the only thing i'd add is that to make real gains you have to make sacrifices, and real sacrifice hurts up front.

If you want to repair things then its going to hurt even more... but on the other hand not doing anything is going to lead to a situation where its going to be worse than that.

As a people we will be judged on how we as a people take care of the older, poor, sick and afflicted.

I agree sacrifices need to be made. I can think of a lot of government spending that needs to STOP yesterday. As with any budget, the first step is to stop borrowing. The second is to live within your means. Key word: live I don't mind doing without. Many elderly people are doing without. The people in their 80s and 90s are the most sacrificing generation of all time.

I know people who live in the same house they were born in, paid into SS all their lives and now get a small check to live on. And what happens? Another arm of government comes by and raises taxes, they lose their home and are forced to live in a nursing home, which in turn costs Medicare more money. Where is the sense in this?

Are you ready to throw away the foundation you stand on? That foundation are the people who have gone before.

The fastest way to kill a tree is kill its roots.

I'm all for cutting government spending. The first place I'd cut is the pay our elected so-called respresentative get. Then I'd cut the "retirement" pay they get from that elected position they held for 2, 4, 10 years and I'd make it retroactive. Then I'd cut their government-paid health care and put them on Medicare with the people everyone wants to throw under the bus.

Edited February 16, 2011 by applepansy
typos

[zippy_do46]

We have raised a "ME" generation. It is a do into others before they do into you world now. We have raised a generation that can fill out a welfare form better then they can fill out an employment form. We have done this to ourselves. We wanted more for our children then what we had. The problem is we didn't take into account our sacrifices molded us into the people we are. Self-worth has gone down the tubes. We will share, but we do not sacrifice to share.

We are a very selfish group of people who have more, want more, and always getting more then we really need. The American dream has become a nightmare.

[FunkyTown]

Bah. Let's just make it look like we're Doing Something™ by submitting a budget that modestly reduces spending only until the next election, after which it goes up again. Kind of like this:

Better yet if the budget contains cuts that the White House knows there's no way in Hades will ever make it out of Congress.

That's just it, JAG - Obama can either surrender the ideals he has and that he was voted in to office for(In which case he would be painted as a flip-flopper) or he can stick to his guns and cut programs he feels are non-essential. If he's making cuts and Congress says 'No', it's really Congress' fault.

Obama is making cuts until the next election because he knows that hard cuts have to be made. Bush did the same with his temporary tax cuts. It's a political game. If the spending cuts go through, spin doctors for Obama will say that he was a visionary who saved the budget. If they don't, spin doctors for Obama will say the Republicans prevented the country from being solvent.

Of course, spin doctors for the Republicans are already spinning Obama as the villain in making 'Cuts that won't make it past Congress'. Both sides are spinning the same info.

I think people need to grow up: If they don't like Obama's budget, make a full budget proposal of your own and submit it through their local congressman.

[rameumptom]

Nobody "happily" suffers. When we talk about cutting Social Security and Medicare we are not talking about cutting somebody's extra income. You're talking about a group of people who were promised that if they agreed to pay into Social Security their government would responsibly manage their retirement.

Social Security is a poorly planned program. As it was designed, it allowed Congress to steal money from it, without ever paying it back. Initially, it was designed to help retired people live for a few years before death, when the average lifespan was less than 65 years. In the 1950s, 50 workers paid in for every individual on SS. Now it is 3 workers paying for each retired person. By the time I'm eligible to retire (14 years till I'm 65), it will be 2 workers supporting one person. SS wasn't designed to be a welfare program, but it now is, as it pays out additional funds for children of the deceased, pays the disabled a lifetime benefit, etc. I know a few "disabled" recipients of SS, who illegally have other work, or are not really disabled. These things were not figured into the original plan, and are a large part of why it is going bankrupt.

As for Medicare, it was never promised to anyone. I love my Mom, who uses Medicare, but she never paid into the system when she was working.

I understand the concept of charity and being charitable. But think of it this way: my mother is now 78, almost 79. She lives by herself in a small subsidized apartment. She has her retirement, my Dad's military retirement, and SS, plus Medicare.

Now, imagine the young family with 3 kids, the husband trying to get his college degree, while working two jobs. He has to manage several people on one income, AND pay for my Mom's Medicare, too???? Ridiculous!

The reality is, there is only so much money and resources available. We can either allow the young family to keep their money, or we can take it away from them and give it to an octogenarian. For centuries, mankind has understood that the future is with the children. Somehow, we've forgotten that. We've also forgotten that the world is a place of risks, and that none of us are going to get out of mortality alive. We have to accept the concept that it is okay to die at 70 or 75 years of age, rather than spending vast amounts of public money to keep someone going until they are 90 years. Yes, each person is important. But do we give my Mom expensive surgery today, only to have my own grandchildren struggling with huge national debts later over it? It isn't fair to ask my kids to handle that.

That SS and Medicare are all screwed up is not Congress' or the President's fault. It is our fault. We allowed this to happen. We told them to cut taxes and cut programs, but do not cut our programs. We tempted them into following along, just so they could get reelected. We are doing to them, what the teacher's unions are doing to our kids - they fight to prop up and tenure all the bad teachers (and yes, there are many good ones), even at the expense of kids across the country.

History shows that when a nation is so self-absorbed that it squanders all its resources on pampering itself, it is in decline and on its way to collapse. I don't want my grandchildren growing up in a third world nation. But that is where our country is heading, if we don't accept the responsibility and consequences of our poor choices.

[rameumptom]

As a people we will be judged on how we as a people take care of the older, poor, sick and afflicted.

I agree sacrifices need to be made. I can think of a lot of government spending that needs to STOP yesterday. As with any budget, the first step is to stop borrowing. The second is to live within your means. Key word: live I don't mind doing without. Many elderly people are doing without. The people in their 80s and 90s are the most sacrificing generation of all time.

I know people who live in the same house they were born in, paid into SS all their lives and now get a small check to live on. And what happens? Another arm of government comes by and raises taxes, they lose their home and are forced to live in a nursing home, which in turn costs Medicare more money. Where is the sense in this?

Are you ready to throw away the foundation you stand on? That foundation are the people who have gone before.

The fastest way to kill a tree is kill its roots.

I'm all for cutting government spending. The first place I'd cut is the pay our elected so-called respresentative get. Then I'd cut the "retirement" pay they get from that elected position they held for 2, 4, 10 years and I'd make it retroactive. Then I'd cut their government-paid health care and put them on Medicare with the people everyone wants to throw under the bus.

And I agree with much of what you've written here. But that means slicing and dicing into SS and Medicare. They and Medicaid are the three biggest parts of the federal budget. Cutting education for kids so that grandma can get that hip replacement is NOT a good deal! Yet that is what is in the current budget proposal.

The people who have gone before were the "Greatest Generation." THEY sacrificed for their kids. They gladly went to World War II, rationed at home, and joined in helping one another (not via the government, btw). The key is: freedom and family were the important components here, not government. Today, the Baby Boomers and many of those who were children during WWII think they are owed a retirement and medicare and medication and food stamps, and etc. We didn't learn from our Fathers the importance of self-reliance, of helping our neighbor without the government stepping in, etc. We buy huge homes, and then don't understand why the government doesn't bail us out when we face foreclosure!

Why should I pay for the elderly's medications, when they did nothing to deserve it, except demand it from Congress? They never paid for it. Why should my kids pay for it? It isn't my kids' fault that the some of the elderly didn't save for retirement, but spent it on expensive homes, etc. It isn't my kids' fault that the elderly decided they wanted to live beyond 100 years of age, regardless of the cost to society (and long term after care is one of the biggest costs to Medicare right now).

I am planning my own retirement. I don't make a lot of money, but I manage it well. It means I live in a 76 year old home that requires lots of fixing, but it cost me under $100K. It means I own cars that are over 10 years old. It means I eat a lot of chicken, rather than steak. It means I take a sack lunch to work every day. It means I often go without things I'd love to have, in order to plan for the future. Is it my fault that others choose to blow their money? Americans did not save any money in the last decade. But it isn't because they were poor, it is because they were greedy. Why should my kids and I have to pay for the poor choices of others?

Now, if a person is truly down on his/her luck, I have no problem helping them. But it should be MY choice to help them, not the government.

[Guest]

I don't want my grandchildren growing up in a third world nation. But that is where our country is heading, if we don't accept the responsibility and consequences of our poor choices.

Hah! I will tell you right now - my children would be better off growing up in the Philippines where the culture and Christian morals are still pretty close together and the standard of education is MUCH higher than the US. Unfortunately, there are more graduates there than there are jobs so it requires a bachelor's degree to flip burgers. But, if the US goes belly-up, businesses are going to move to Asia... might be good for the Filipinos.

[Blackmarch]

As a people we will be judged on how we as a people take care of the older, poor, sick and afflicted.

I agree sacrifices need to be made. I can think of a lot of government spending that needs to STOP yesterday. As with any budget, the first step is to stop borrowing. The second is to live within your means. Key word: live I don't mind doing without. Many elderly people are doing without. The people in their 80s and 90s are the most sacrificing generation of all time.

I know people who live in the same house they were born in, paid into SS all their lives and now get a small check to live on. And what happens? Another arm of government comes by and raises taxes, they lose their home and are forced to live in a nursing home, which in turn costs Medicare more money. Where is the sense in this?

Are you ready to throw away the foundation you stand on? That foundation are the people who have gone before.

The fastest way to kill a tree is kill its roots.

I'm all for cutting government spending. The first place I'd cut is the pay our elected so-called respresentative get. Then I'd cut the "retirement" pay they get from that elected position they held for 2, 4, 10 years and I'd make it retroactive. Then I'd cut their government-paid health care and put them on Medicare with the people everyone wants to throw under the bus.

I'm not saying medicare or what not should be done away with. I'm saying theres not much left where pruning does not have the potential to do a lot of harm in some way.

(whether or not one wants to avoid pruning the the medical care budget along with the others)

Cutting government officials and workers salaries would help some but it has the same problem with only cutting any of the other things that take up a small portion of the budget- it's only going to prolong the day reckoning.

DO we cut reorginize medical care? Do we cut and reorginize social security? do we cut and reorginize the military?

these three are by far the hugest portions of the budget. (which tells me are the ones that mainly need fixing)

After that we have things like Education, Public services, NASA (which I must note is down there with the smallest allotments of the budget)- these do not have a large percentage of the budget

At the same time if we use up everything on medicaid/healthcare/social security (which various financial predictions show what will happen if major changes are not made)

, then everything else goes belly up quicker, and after that happens the aforementioned programs will quickly become useless anyways.

Which is something we really need to avoid, the problem is how to avoid it with incurring the least amount of negative consequences.

In the case for health and security, especially for older people, the younger generation is going to have to be willing take it out of government hands and will have to be willing to dip into their own pockets to pay for their parents care in some form or another. Unfortunately I don't think there are enough willing to do so at this time (and would rather leave it up to the gov), so we're ending up in a death spiral. Right now good choices can prolong it, and hope we can get good enough elsewhere to cover it, but i don't really see that happening soon.

[applepansy]

Social Security is a poorly planned program.

I agree.

For centuries, mankind has understood that the future is with the children. Somehow, we've forgotten that. We've also forgotten that the world is a place of risks, and that none of us are going to get out of mortality alive. We have to accept the concept that it is okay to die at 70 or 75 years of age, rather than spending vast amounts of public money to keep someone going until they are 90 years. Yes, each person is important.

I sincerely hoping you're not saying you believe in Euthanasia for anyone over 70-75. (if so, stop reading and move to Sweden)

Some of the greatest contributions to society came from those over 75. Again, kill the roots and you kill the tree. For centuries our society understood the wealth of knowledge that was represented in the elderly and the elderly were revered and taken care of. Its only been during the 20th century that attitudes toward the elderly changed and they were seen as a burden to be thrown away.

I remember when my grandfather used to talk about politics, government, etc. He used family dinners to teach correct principles. I remember he saw SS as another way for the government to steal from the people and predicted it would become the monster it is. He lived to age 77.... hmmm, he should have died at least 2 years earlier. Then maybe I wouldn't remember that he understood govenments penchant for stealing from its citizens.

Our children are very important and they need to be taught correct principles. I grew up in a time when taking elderly parents into our homes was what you did. You didn't send them to a nursing home to be warehoused until they died (on Medicare's dime). I took care of my grandmother in my home until it was possible for her to live with one of her daughters. It was the biggest blessing for me and my children. My children learned compassion for the elderly. They learned that the elderly have a wealth of knowledge to share and a lot of love to give. They learned history and the mistakes they need to know about so they don't repeat them. The elderly can make wonderful contributions .... at the very least teaching the children of our nation what compassion is all about. Today's children (generally speaking) have major entitlement issues. I do not believe sacrificing a vast knowledge-base in the brains of the elderly so that this generation can continue to feel entitled is the answer.

I believe there needs to be changed in Social Security and Medicare. I believe the Health Care Insurance industry is a big scam. My problem with cutting Social Security is the people forced to pay into the system with the promise they would be paid back their money upon retiring are being thrown under the bus. If you didn't pay Social Security you shouldn't be able to get it (unless your spouse is deceased and then as the survivor you are entitled to the money they are owed). Social Security should go back to what it was sold to the public as.

I also think the Federal/State welfare system needs to be revamped to look like the Church welfare system.

And I strongly believe that until we cut Congressional salary and benefits we can never trust the elected officials to get the cuts in SS and Medicare right.

What I see for the future is what has been prophesied. The biggest sin is selfishness (see conference talks). Its our countries selfishness that will be its downfall. Not just for the children but for all of us.

Edited February 17, 2011 by applepansy

[Jenamarie]

Everytime I read about possible "fixes" to the economy, and the ramifications of such "fixes" a quote from one of my favorite books always pops into my mind:

"Better always means worse, for some."

Whatever ends up being done to fix our economy is going to hurt a lot of people, it's just deciding which group of people (elderly, military, education, etc.) is going to be "lucky" enough to have to take the brunt of it.