Worthless women?

[Wingnut]

Several of my friends have posted this article on Facebook today. I've read through it, and I think it makes a good jumping-off point for discussion.

Excerpt:

What hurts me the most is that most of these things have been said to me by more women than I would care to count.

Get real for a moment, ladies. How many of these statements have you yourself said or thought? Be honest. Go through the list, one by one, and admit to the number. I'm genuinely curious. I'm genuinely sick about it. How many of them have you said or thought just since you got out of bed this morning?

Worthless women and the men who make them

Your thoughts?

Edit: When I first started reading the article, I didn't pay attention to what blog it was on or anything. I assumed it was written by a woman, until I got about halfway through and realized I was wrong. So when you start reading, bear in mind that the author is a man.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Wingnut

[NeuroTypical]

My thoughts are around raising my two daughters so they're a bit more able to define themselves based on what matters instead of what doesn't matter so much.

Remember the

? I'm still very grateful somebody made it. Right now, my daughters think the lady looks just fine at the beginning, and that makes me happy.

[Wingnut]

LM, I love that video.

[Connie]

Wow! I'm speechless. Just... wow!

[Wingnut]

Connie, that was almost exactly what one of my friends said. Knowing her the way I do, I'm pretty sure I know how she meant it. Can you elaborate your thoughts a bit?

[Backroads]

Wonderful article!

[applepansy]

As I read the article...and its a very timely article.... what came to my mind was: Proverbs 5:25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart ..., and, 3 Nephi 12:28 But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman, to lust after her, hath committed adultery already in his heart.

I also thought of the times President Hinckley talked about the value of women.

I applaud the brave man who wrote the article. Its about time men (generally speaking) woke up and realized the affect they have on women, and women need to wake up and realize the affect they have on men.

EDIT: I don't read blogs. Every once in awhile when somebody recommends something. I've now spent an hour reading Single Dad Laughing. I'm a fan!!!

Edited March 4, 2011 by applepansy

[talisyn]

Yeah, I've seen this. Why is it that in any group of 3 or more women there will be at least a 10 minute discussion on dieting? It's like a bonding moment. If you are female and don't participate you're excluded. This is just my own example.

Men, imagine the power you carry in what you will say and do after you read this. Imagine the men of this world doing something truly noble to fix the lives and hearts of our women. Imagine the ability to see beauty everywhere we look.

Does anybody have the brass to swim against the current with me? Does anybody have the courage to say, "this is wrong, this is hurting people, and I will no longer participate"?

I hope so. With everything inside of me, I hope so.

I hope, too.

[talisyn]

darn this laggy computer to double-post hades.

Edited March 5, 2011 by talisyn
doublepostitis

[Connie]

I think he did a very good job of stating the problem of the worldly, distorted image of female beauty. And while he focused in on the male role in promoting that image (and while I do think females play their own role in promoting that image which he didn’t go into), he made a very convincing case of it. And I really like how he brought it all together and basically said there are things both genders can do to help one another in rejecting that distortion and promoting the reality. I think that’s what I got out of it and really appreciated—that there is blame on both sides and we need to help each other in rising above the “fiction” as he called it.

[MorningStar]

Very good! I'm hoping I can raise my kids in this world with a healthy view of themselves and others.

[Guest]

This article is a piece of crap. Yes. CRAP.

It is demeaning to both men and women. It takes the presumption that all women are stupid without any self-awareness whose entire persona is dependent on men. HOGWASH. And it takes the presumption that all men are sex-crazed maniacs who do not recognize what true beauty means. HOGWASH.

Here, let me address each and every one of those points:

Women are ugly.

Yes. Today, I am ugly. I am on major PMS. When you're dripping blood down there, there is no way I will feel pretty. No, I'm not ugly because some guy said I'm ugly. I am not ugly everyday. I am ugly TODAY. Sometimes my temper gets the better of me. No man need tell me I'm ugly then. When you're spouting evil off your pretty mouth, it makes you ugly.

Women are fat.

I am fat. I am 30 pounds overweight. No, the world can be all made up of women without a man in sight. That doesn't change the fact that I am fat. When I am fat, I am unhealthy. My heart rate increases, my sciatica hurts like crazy, I get winded just trying to walk from one end of Wal-mart to the other. Fat is unhealthy. Fat is ugly. No, it is not ugly because men think it is ugly. It is ugly because it can kill me!

We had dinner at Golden Coral today. In the entire section that we were sitting in, there were only 3 people who were not fat. My 2 kids and this 1 kid 2 tables over. Everybody else - kids and adults were fat. No wonder women - and men for that matter - buddy up to diet. THEY NEED TO!

Women are bad mothers. Women are bad wives. Women are bad daughters.

Yep. When my temper gets the better of me, I'm all of the above. No, it's not because some man told me I'm all that. Like I said, I could be the prettiest girl in the world, but when evil comes out of my mouth, there's no denying that I am BAD.

Women are lousy cooks. Women don't keep their houses clean enough.

I am a lousy cook. And I can't keep my house clean enough. I acknowledge that weakness. When I cook dinner and my family has to force themselves to eat it, there's no denying that fact. I can't keep the house clean. I grew up with maids cleaning after me! I never gained that skill. When you have a kid who is allergic to dust, there's no denying that either. So, I hire a cleaning lady and I buy pre-made dinners from Super Suppers.

If you don't acknowledge weaknesses, not only are you going to keep doing things bad, you ask everybody else to put up with crap.

Women have too much cellulite in their thighs. Their abdomens are too flabby. Their under-arms are too Jell-oesque.

Cellulite and flab and Jell-oesque are signs that you are getting fat. If you don't pay attention to that, pretty soon you're 30 pounds overweight and your heart rate is racing and your sciatica is flaring. STAY HEALTHY!

Women are terrible singers. They are terrible dancers. They are terrible public speakers.

I'm a terrible singer and a terrible dancer but I'm a pretty good public speaker. When God doled out talents, He didn't give me all of them. There's nothing wrong with that. I admit all and accept my lot in life.

Women are stupid. Women are scatter-brained.

That's what the author of the article wants me to think after writing that article. Sure, I have my stupid, scatter-brained moments. Who doesn't?

Women are weak. They are powerless. They are defenseless.

Speak for yourself. I am none of the above.

Women don't dress well enough. They don't have clear enough complexions. They have too many freckles.

Hey, it takes some attention to dress properly. You can't just go places wearing rags and expect to be taken seriously. So, yeah, there are times when I don't feel I'm dressed properly for the occassion. Especially when I'm going to a party and my boss is the host. And no, she's not a man...

Women don't have full enough lips. They don't have skin that is soft enough.

That's what YOU think, being a man. I like mine just the way they are, thank you very much.

Women are too dominant. Women are too passive.

Women are too mean. Women are too nice. Women are nothing but doormats.

Yeah, sometimes they are. If you don't accept it, you can't change it. Being too dominant and being too passive would need some adjustment. Yes, there are even those that are doormats - whether the person stepping on them are men or women...

Women aren't good enough. Women will never be good enough.

Good enough for what?

Women are, simply put, worthless.

Speak for yourself.

No, most men are just fine. And so are most women. If you don't believe that, look at every single married man and woman in the world. If the article is even close to true then only women who look like Cindy Crawford are happily married.

[Wingnut]

Most of you so far have had the same (or a very similar) reaction as all my friends who posted the article. I saw it very differently. Here is what I posted on my Facebook status when I linked to the article:

Okay, so I appreciate the thought and sentiment expressed in this article, but I can't help but take umbrage at the idea that I'm supposed to feel like I'm worth something based on the fact that men don't want a fake woman. My sense of worth shouldn't come from within? How about from being a daughter of God? The ideas in this article are great in theory, but I think they promote mass co-dependence, which is far from healthy.

[Wingnut]

Okay, so I appreciate the thought and sentiment expressed in this article, but I can't help but take umbrage at the idea that I'm supposed to feel like I'm worth something based on the fact that men don't want a fake woman. My sense of worth shouldn't come from within? How about from being a daughter of God? The ideas in this article are great in theory, but I think they promote mass co-dependence, which is far from healthy.

Ironically, but not the least bit surprisingly, the first (and so far only) person to fully disagree with me (as opposed to commenting on finer details) is my sister-in-law, who is the most co-dependent person I've ever met. I think if you looked up co-dependent in the dictionary, her picture would be there.

[Connie]

He's talking about interdependence--bearing one another's burdens that they may be light.

[naebug]

The article was a good read, and I do appreciate how the writer put it out there hoping for discussion. I disagree with him.

Women are the most vicious towards women. I know, I am one. When i find myself being that way I shut it down as quick as I can. The trick is becoming aware of it. I find the older I get the more I notice it in myself and work on changing. This is not the fault of males.

We need to stop blaming males for all the troubles in the world and in our homes and in our relationships with each other, self and god.

I resent listening to so many other women man-bashing. I love my son and do not want him to grow up into such a world. I speak as an older, non-surgeried, slighlty overweight convert single mother.

Whenever I hear such degrading thought-loops rolling in my head I cut them off, I do not blame men.

[Wingnut]

The article was a good read, and I do appreciate how the writer put it out there hoping for discussion. I disagree with him.

Women are the most vicious towards women. I know, I am one. When i find myself being that way I shut it down as quick as I can. The trick is becoming aware of it. I find the older I get the more I notice it in myself and work on changing. This is not the fault of males.

We need to stop blaming males for all the troubles in the world and in our homes and in our relationships with each other, self and god.

I resent listening to so many other women man-bashing. I love my son and do not want him to grow up into such a world. I speak as an older, non-surgeried, slighlty overweight convert single mother.

Whenever I hear such degrading thought-loops rolling in my head I cut them off, I do not blame men.

I wish I could thank this post twice. This is really spot-on. I also really strongly believe that women are more vicious (in attitude and emotions) toward other women than men are.

[MorningStar]

I definitely don't blame men for the way women feel about themselves, but I liked the fact that he recognized he himself had a problem, causing him not to be that attracted to "normal" women anymore. Yes, there are men who stop to look at magazines, but who posed for those magazines? Women!!!!

I also liked what he had to say about how women wearing more clothing would be good. My daughter is 2 and I can put her in some size 5 tops because of the dumb trend to make everything skin tight. I want to teach her respect for herself and not to settle for any boy who just wants to use her. I've told my boys when they grow up, they need to not date the girls who flaunt their bodies. Reward the modest girls by asking them out.

[Wingnut]

Yes, there are men who stop to look at magazines, but who posed for those magazines? Women!!!!

Yes, but the way they look on the magazine isn't necessarily the way they look in real life. If you haven't seen it before, check out the video that LM posted on the first page.

[Guest]

I wish I could thank this post twice. This is really spot-on. I also really strongly believe that women are more vicious (in attitude and emotions) toward other women than men are.

Oh this is sooo true. And women can be very vicious to men too.

Even in this forum, you'll see a trend where one persons would post... "My husband slapped me!", and everybody goes into umbrage against the man without further question.

I hate that. Because, I have personally been slapped by my father, my brothers, my husband. Are they all stupid, mean-spirited, abusive men? Nope... What's the common denominator here? Me! The vile things that come out of my mouth sometimes can bring a man to insanity. I recognize it, I see it, I'm trying to change it. So far, I have not been 100% successful.

I have seen men with broken spirits from vicious emotional and verbal abuse by their wives. Not many people goes into umbrage against these women. Because... there's no physical mark to prove the abuse. There are no men shelters or anything like that. Because they're expected to be tough.

When there's a divorce, the woman gets the kid, the man gets him for a weekend here and there. Regardless of the vile things that the woman does on a constant basis.

Even teaching my sons chivalry is difficult. I tell my kids to open the door for women to show their respect... but then they see on TV women berating men for opening the door for them - somehow they think that opening the door for them is insulting because they can open the door themselves. I see women demanding to play with the men on the basketball court. Men get confused - are we supposed to protect this woman or ram her on the way to the basket like we do to men? And then when they do ram the woman on the way to the basket then he is a heartless brute!

Therefore, in response to that article, somebody should write a balancing article to present the flip-side of it. How women have abused men in this modern era...

Okay, yeah, I'm a woman.

[applepansy]

I do not feel Single Dad Laughing was only blaming men. He was pointing out a very real aspect of our society. I find that I'm agreeing with everyone here. I see what you're saying. Not all men objectify, but enough of them do. Our media is to blame too. And women hold their share of responsibility.

I think its great that so many people are talking about this issue. I applaud Dan Pearce because he was brave enough to blog about it. :)

[Connie]

The article was a good read, and I do appreciate how the writer put it out there hoping for discussion. I disagree with him.

Women are the most vicious towards women. I know, I am one. When i find myself being that way I shut it down as quick as I can. The trick is becoming aware of it. I find the older I get the more I notice it in myself and work on changing. This is not the fault of males.

We need to stop blaming males for all the troubles in the world and in our homes and in our relationships with each other, self and god.

I resent listening to so many other women man-bashing. I love my son and do not want him to grow up into such a world. I speak as an older, non-surgeried, slighlty overweight convert single mother.

Whenever I hear such degrading thought-loops rolling in my head I cut them off, I do not blame men.

This is very much what i expected to get out of it just based on the title of it (kind of a dumb title), so it surprised me that that is not how it came across to me at all despite the fact that he was quite hard on the men. I really feel like he brought it all together there at the end. Women need to step up and be real women and men need to start appreciating real beauty.

I do remain very confused as to why averting ones eyes from soft porn, dressing modestly and avoiding disparaging comments about oneself and others would be promoting codependency.

Where's Vort? I would love to hear his unique opinion on this despite that he would probably vehemently hate it and i rather liked it.

[Wingnut]

This is very much what i expected to get out of it just based on the title of it (kind of a dumb title), so it surprised me that that is not how it came across to me at all despite the fact that he was quite hard on the men. I really feel like he brought it all together there at the end. Women need to step up and be real women and men need to start appreciating real beauty.

I did like that at the end, where he encouraged women to cover up a little more, etc.

I do remain very confused as to why averting ones eyes from soft porn, dressing modestly and avoiding disparaging comments about oneself and others would be promoting codependency.

That's not what promotes co-dependency. The idea that I can only feel good about myself based on what a man thinks of me is what promotes co-depency.

[applepansy]

That's not what promotes co-dependency. The idea that I can only feel good about myself based on what a man thinks of me is what promotes co-depency.

I reread the blog and I don't think that is what he was saying. :)

I do know women who dress for men....even ones who aren't codependent. They like the power it gives them. Which to me is just as bad.

[Wingnut]

I don't think he was saying that at all, but I think that's what his ideas promote. Dressing up to try to impress a man is fine. Having one's entire sense of self-worth tied to what a man thinks of you is unhealthy. Dan seems to imply that women wouldn't feel bad about themselves if men stepped up. I think it's asinine to say that I can't have strong self-worth without a man giving it to me.