Baptisms for the dead is like being rebaptized yourself?

[lizzy16]

I was in the temple yesterday and afterwords a friend came up to me and was telling me she learned that doing baptisms in the temple was like being repabtized (or taking the sacrament).

Doing baptisms for the dead cleanses the person being baptized as well?

The next day after seminary I brought the subject up again and a young man who recently converted (Who was at the temple trip as well. And happens to be very attractive told me that he heard the same thing. At least thats what I thought he meant. His charm was a bit distracting. :rolleye:

Could someone clarify this for me?

[Jennarator]

I have never heard this before. I always just thought of it as a reminder of our own baptism. We do need to be clean and repentant to enter the temple to do baptisms, so why would we need to be washed from our sins, again if we are taking the sacrement each week, remaining worthy and repentting daily?

[Suzie]

Doing baptisms for the dead cleanses the person being baptized as well?

No. The person is just acting as a proxy.

[Gwen]

I've never heard that. Taking the sacrament is how we renew the baptismal covenant. Doing baptisms for the dead is just that, for them, it's not your covenant. It would be kinda pointless as well to go and be baptized over and over for yourself.

However, the person doing them may feel closer to the spirit after a temple trip and have strong feelings that they only remember having after their baptism. Which I guess could confuse them on the subject.

More likely it's wishful thinking. We all make mistakes and the idea that we can "just start over" from the beginning is very appealing. I remember as a youth thinking it wasn't fair that some were baptized at 8 and had their entire life they had to get right while others got baptized as adults got "erase all the mistakes" and start over after so much of their life was behind them. I later learned that was a rather immature concern, God has that covered.

[lizzy16]

Maybe I'll ask them both tomorrow to clarify what they meant. I was so confused because it would be the same thing as taking the sacrament :)

[pam]

I agree with Suzie. We are just acting as proxy and has nothing to do with ourselves.

[Just_A_Guy]

Well, we do know from James 5:14-15 that the ordinance of healing, properly administered and received, has the effect of obtaining for the sick person a forgiveness of his sins.

I suppose the same effect could happen with baptism for the dead, but it wouldn't be because that's the function of the ordinance. Rather, I suppose it would merely be that priesthood ordinances invite the presence of the Holy Spirit, which can have a sanctifying effect on the truly penitent.

[HEthePrimate]

Well, it's like getting rebaptized in that you get wet all over again! But no, it's an ordinance in behalf of another person, not for you. All the same, it does give one a good feeling to serve other people, and so the person doing the proxy work is blessed, too.

Peace,

HEP

[Blackmarch]

I was in the temple yesterday and afterwords a friend came up to me and was telling me she learned that doing baptisms in the temple was like being repabtized (or taking the sacrament).

Doing baptisms for the dead cleanses the person being baptized as well?

The next day after seminary I brought the subject up again and a young man who recently converted (Who was at the temple trip as well. And happens to be very attractive told me that he heard the same thing. At least thats what I thought he meant. His charm was a bit distracting. :rolleye:

Could someone clarify this for me?

I have not heard this specifically... so i'd probably not teach it if i had my way.

That's what the sacrament does, we renew our covenants at sacrament.

However theres a scriptue that states (sorry i can't remember the reference, so paraphrasing here) that when you bring a soul unto Christ he will hide many of your sins, and blessed be the one who brings many souls unto Christ.

Which might be the basis behind the belief that doing a baptism for the dead rebaptizes the person standing as proxy.

[rameumptom]

I think James 5:20 and D&C 18 explain it well.

James 5:20

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

When we work to save souls, we also are cleansed from sin.

[Suzie]

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Interesting scripture. I wonder how this scripture applies to baptism for the dead though? Since when we are acting as proxiess we're not really "converting" the individual but merely giving them the opportunity to accept the Gospel, neither saving their souls from "death".

[Blackmarch]

Interesting scripture. I wonder how this scripture applies to baptism for the dead though? Since when we are acting as proxiess we're not really "converting" the individual but merely giving them the opportunity to accept the Gospel, neither saving their souls from "death".

In that baptism is pretty essential in the process of becoming one of Christ's followers. So i can see how it can be used in that sense.

[Suzie]

In that baptism is pretty essential in the process of becoming one of Christ's followers. So i can see how it can be used in that sense.

Yes, I can see how it can be used in that sense but personally, I am not sure if it can be applied to doing baptism for the dead.

[rameumptom]

Each person who is dead must receive the gospel. Part of receiving the gospel is baptism. This is true, whether alive or dead. They cannot receive exaltation without the ordinance. Therefore, we are involved in missionary work for the dead.

It is like on my mission. I taught a family there, who accepted the gospel. A week before they were baptized, I was transferred away. Does my effort not count, simply because I wasn't at the baptism? Or does it not count for the missionary who did baptize them, even though he didn't teach them? Or is it a joint effort?

Personally, I see our work in the temple as a joint effort with those teaching on the other side. We are indeed involved in the conversion of the person. We make the effort to research and find the dead, then we take them to the temple, which can be hours or days away for many people.

Without the baptism for the dead, that person could not be exalted. You are opening the door for that exaltation. You are involved in the conversion process, which includes baptism by water and Spirit, ordinations, endowments and sealings. All of it counts as God's work. Dead or alive, they are his children. All must here the gospel AND receive the ordinances. Neither the dead nor the alive could receive these blessings without us.

[Suzie]

Each person who is dead must receive the gospel. Part of receiving the gospel is baptism. This is true, whether alive or dead. They cannot receive exaltation without the ordinance. Therefore, we are involved in missionary work for the dead.

It is like on my mission. I taught a family there, who accepted the gospel. A week before they were baptized, I was transferred away. Does my effort not count, simply because I wasn't at the baptism? Or does it not count for the missionary who did baptize them, even though he didn't teach them? Or is it a joint effort?

Personally, I see our work in the temple as a joint effort with those teaching on the other side. We are indeed involved in the conversion of the person. We make the effort to research and find the dead, then we take them to the temple, which can be hours or days away for many people.

Without the baptism for the dead, that person could not be exalted. You are opening the door for that exaltation. You are involved in the conversion process, which includes baptism by water and Spirit, ordinations, endowments and sealings. All of it counts as God's work. Dead or alive, they are his children. All must here the gospel AND receive the ordinances. Neither the dead nor the alive could receive these blessings without us.

Ram, I agree with everything you just said. I'm just not sure if I can fit that scripture in James with our role as proxies in the temple (when we do baptism for our dead). Yes, I believe we are blessed when we do the work for them, but I'm not sure if I believe we are cleansed from sin or "re-baptize" when we do it.