Indiana's Broadest Voucher School System

[HoosierGuy]

I saw this story in a newspaper while visiting my aunt in a nursing home last week. I actually saw two shocking stories - Indiana will have the broadest private voucher school system.

Indiana Lawmakers Approve Nation's Largest School Voucher Program

INDIANAPOLIS — Indiana will create the nation's broadest private school voucher system and enact other sweeping education changes, making the state a showcase of conservative ideas just as Gov. Mitch Daniels nears an announcement on whether he will make a 2012 presidential run.

Unlike other systems that are limited to lower-income households, children with special needs or those in failing schools, Indiana's voucher program will be open to a much larger pool of students, including those already in excellent schools. Families would have to meet certain income limits to qualify, with families of four making up to about $60,000 a year getting some type of scholarship.

I don't know what the teachers did to tick off so many conservatives. They are getting a beating for sure. In the end it's education that is going to be hurt. Opponent say the vouchers system will take money from public schools. I think this will lead to very divided schools where we will have a few wealthy top notch schools and many low poor schools with few resources, and then lower schools that minorities will be stuck in. I see the voucher system as just another way to bring back segregation.

[Guest]

I don't know what the teachers did to tick off so many conservatives. They are getting a beating for sure. In the end it's education that is going to be hurt. Opponent say the vouchers system will take money from public schools. I think this will lead to very divided schools where we will have a few wealthy top notch schools and many low poor schools with few resources, and then lower schools that minorities will be stuck in. I see the voucher system as just another way to bring back segregation.

Explain how that would happen exactly. Because, I don't see what you see.

[JThimm88]

What is the voucher system exactly? I've never heard of it before but am curious how it plays into the schools.

[Connie]

What is the voucher system exactly? I've never heard of it before but am curious how it plays into the schools.

School voucher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Dravin]

Explain how that would happen exactly. Because, I don't see what you see.

I suspect he assumes the voucher is so calculated that the value of it is greater than the funds expected to be required for having a student at the school. While I can see a migration of middle class (rich parents who want their kids in private schools one would expect to be there, it would be middle class, or not so rich kids with the vouchers allowing parents to afford tuition that would migrate) it should be revenue neutral if the voucher isn't calculated poorly. If you reduce funding by the same amount you reduce expenditure it should be revenue neutral. Though I suppose you may run into some sort of economy of scale situation (a teacher's pay for teaching 28 students per class versus 25 students per class wouldn't vary) but one can just consolidate schools if needed to handle that issue.

I'm mostly addressing the little resources comment.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Dravin

[HoosierGuy]

Oops. I said I saw two stories. I meant to say one story. But there was another shocking story - Indiana is going to pull all funding from Planned Parenthood.

I don't like this voucher talk. It may sound good on the surface. Sure everyone should be allowed to send their kids to the school they want. But this is going to hurt most schools, taking money from them. This is all coming from conservatives and that means they really don't want to educate the kids. In the words of the African native kid I saw in an old Tarzan movie - this is bad Ju-Ju.

[Wingnut]

This is all coming from conservatives and that means they really don't want to educate the kids.

It may come from conservatives, but it doesn't mean they don't want to educate their children.

[Just_A_Guy]

This is all coming from conservatives and that means they really don't want to educate the kids.

And the opposition comes from HoosierGuy, which means he only opposes this because it would mean that kids were scattered all over the place rather than conveniently rounded up into government-controlled institutions, preparing for HoosierGuy's recommended regimen of shock-therapy-based political education.

[NeuroTypical]

Excellent. Here's hoping for a good decade-or-two long valid experiment in the matter. The states should be the labaratories for the country.

Maybe one day we picked-on homeschoolers will get the same deal.

[pam]

This is all coming from conservatives and that means they really don't want to educate the kids.

How many have you talked to Hoosier that have actually said; "I don't really want to educate my kids?"

[PrinceofLight2000]

I don't know what the teachers did to tick off so many conservatives.

Nine times out of ten it's the unions we take issue with, not the teachers. The other one time out of ten where we take issue with teachers is when the school won't fire the bad ones by virtue of seniority or other measures. But that too is largely the union's fault.

[HoosierGuy]

How many have you talked to Hoosier that have actually said; "I don't really want to educate my kids?"

Just look at Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina.

Indianapolis has a horrible high-school drop out rate. Is this voucher system going to help those people in Indianapolis? I doubt it.

[Guest]

Just look at Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina.

What about them?

Indianapolis has a horrible high-school drop out rate. Is this voucher system going to help those people in Indianapolis? I doubt it.

High-school drop-out rate is not necessarily the focus of the voucher system. Taking good students out of failing schools is the focus of the voucher system. If you follow the systems engineering approach you can create a causal loop that ties a percentage of high-school drop-out rate to students in failing schools. Therefore, giving those students an option could cause students to stay in school and remove them from the high-school drop-out rate count.

It is industry proven that competition is tied directly to quality. You remove competition, you remove the incentive for quality - that is why industry monopoly is against the law. Yet, public schools do not compete. This can be solved by the voucher system.

Today, we have a voucher-type system in Florida for Pre-K. It is working very good. And the only reason it passed is because it doesn't threaten the Teacher's Union - public schools don't offer Pre-K.

[pam]

Just look at Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina.

Indianapolis has a horrible high-school drop out rate. Is this voucher system going to help those people in Indianapolis? I doubt it.

That didn't answer my question.

[rameumptom]

Education will not be hurt by going to vouchers. Teacher's unions will.

Teacher's unions have become a monopoly that hurts education and children. They make it near impossible to fire bad teachers, give merit pay to good teachers, or make changes that will benefit kids. They take power away from parents.

There was a voucher system for the poorest kids in Washington DC. Those kids went to some of the worst schools in the country. The vouchers (about $7500 per kid) allowed them to go to other schools, instead. Rather than trailing the city on education, all of those kids quickly rose to at least be average or above average to the rest of the school system. And the public system cost $28,000 a year per kid. So, they got better schooling for 1/4 the price! Pres Obama killed the program in 2009, but it is now back, thanks to a Republican house. Oh, and the dropout rate among these kids is almost non-existent with the vouchers.

With giving vouchers in Indiana, we will see school improvement. And it will be cheaper. Not only that, but with access to private schools, parents can send kids to schools that offer religious training and won't have to put up with a lot of the teacher union biases that infiltrate the system. For those parents satisfied with the public system, they can continue sending their kids to those schools.

Nationwide, the public school system is broken. Yes, there are some great schools and teachers there, but their hands are often tied by bureaucrats and teacher's unions. This is an overhead tax that hurts America and our kids. Since Jimmy Carter strengthened teacher's unions 30 years ago, SAT and other test scores have not gone up, but gone down. Instead of being #1 in math and science, we are now trailing at #25 or worse. Those are ugly statistics, but they show how ugly the unions and federal government intervention has made things.

[Just_A_Guy]

A timely essay from the Wall Street Journal.