Schollarship and genius

[Traveler]

As to not derail another very important thread - I will start a new thread for those with interest and willinginess to contribute.

The USA has developed one of the most expensive and non productive methods of teaching in history. We are all granted our opinions and I have mine. When I was in college it was my dream to be a teacher. That did not happen because in order to get a degree in education I had to at least pass basic spelling. It would be years later that I would discover that I was dyslectic and not gifted with spelling. I was a gifted in mathematics.

However, while learning to be a teacher in specialized and exceptional learners I learned about genius. Many people think that scholars are the exceptional learners of our society. Many are good at their craft but not really exceptional. What are the most common traits of true genius? Note this is true in all fields of accomplishment. It is true in science and sports, music, ligature and art. Interesting – the same is true for super jocks and super nerds. And we normally think of such things as “opposites”.

So what makes true genius?

• The single most important and dominate aspect of all genius is – They are mentored, usually from early childhood. Contrary to popular opinion the mentor is not necessarily the best at the craft but they are knowledgeable and capable. It is important to note that the most important thing in creating genius is not the brilliance internally of the learner but rather the care, dedication and ability of the teacher to reach the student.

Most “scholars” I have encountered in essence vomit their expertise and believe “smart” people will get it and if they are not smart they should be “washed out” and not considered important. This is – in my mind the single greatest failure of American intellectualism or scholarship. It is worse than grading on the curve.

Contrary to such notions is the mentor that has the attitude of let me show you how, the do as I’m doing, follow follow me – to quote a primary song.

• Another notion of true genius? Contrary to popular belief – they are never bored in their field of expertise. Attention is the primary indication you have connected with someone that is learning. Contrary to popular beliefs when someone is learning they are engaged, involved and focused. But perhaps the greater sign of success is that the learner will proceed, on their own because they want more – not because they have assignments.

Again – most scholars I have encountered will down play individual effort – especially if it is new to them. Only if you make them look good they are happy and will think you brilliant. If you challenge them – even in the slightest – you have made an enemy for life and heaven forbid you should ever surpass them and their work. True genius is never so petty. You do better and you have their undivided attention – they will gleefully absorb new stuff previously unknown to them.

Do I abhor scholarship – is this an anti-scholarship rant? Perhaps – perhaps something along the level of respect that Jesus showed to the scholars (Scribes and Pharisees) of his day. Note that he identified and chose his genius from the more common elements of fishermen, tent makers and less intellectually trained of his society.

The Traveler

Edited May 7, 2011 by Traveler

[pam]

Schollarship and genius

Please don't make me comment.

[mightynancy]

Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

[Backroads]

Dyslexic, huh? You must read the book Brilliant Idiot. To summarize, the author (in an "as told to" situation) struggled with spelling, reading, and writing his entire life, but did not hear of dyslexia until he was in his forties or so--and had already achieved his Ph.D.

[Traveler]

Dyslexic, huh? You must read the book Brilliant Idiot. To summarize, the author (in an "as told to" situation) struggled with spelling, reading, and writing his entire life, but did not hear of dyslexia until he was in his forties or so--and had already achieved his Ph.D.

For me, I learned on a flight while traveling (also in my 40’s). The lady I was sitting next to was a doctor that specialized in Dyslexia. She asked me if I was reading an article backwards. Long story short – I discovered I was dyslexic – now I have an excuse for my most unusual spelling.

In college I would argue with my teachers about spelling – one of my favorite lines was, “If you only know one way to spell a word; you are the one uneducated not me.” If they scoffed I would bet them my grade that spelling was not as important as they think – and the only reason they think that way is because they had been limited by their education not liberated and I could prove it. I could speak to them a perfectly correct English sentence and they could not spell it correctly according to their rules.

But my primary purpose here is to disconnect the foolish notion that because someone is well studied that are smarter. My single greatest change in my education came when I discovered that teachers will treat students differently based on if they think the student is an A student or a failing student. So in college my goal for the first week in class was to convince the teacher that I was one of the smartest students they have ever encountered. It was easy. I would study and cram for the first week of class.

Powered flight was not invented by scholars – it was invented by a couple of bicycle mechanics. History is full of such stories. But for every genius discovered in our educational system we ostracize half dozen others.

When I was studying the education of exceptional learners one of my favorite studies was in the Chicago education system. They decided to take their top fifty students in the Chicago education district and put them in a separate group and their bottom 50 students and put them in another group – then specialize the teaching of each group to see what could be accomplished. No surprises. The top students achieved even better than expected and the bottom 50 digressed, also more than expected. That was until it was discovered that on accident the two groups had been switched.

My personal belief that anyone reading this post is a genius. Not hard for me to believe because I believe everyone is a genius at something and the truly smart people have figured that out – but the smartest of all are those that can unlock the genius (divine nature) in us all.

The Traveler

[Avrham]

Hi Traveler

my notion of a genius is someone who thinks outside the sqaure and is a person who is never satisfied with one solution and always asking questions like "why"

sounds like everyone might have this intution at some stage of their life and the ones who know this are the exception

just wondering can education and learning be the same thing??? I learnt from my 5yr old son that "learning is free and education is money" that really made me laugh so I asked him where did he get that from )his answer "Going to karate and learning to speak Japanesee" then I kindly reminded him that it cost money for Karate but he just turns around and says"yeahh but they talk Japanesee So I talk Japanesee as well" but the interesting thing is He can't count 1to10properly in English but fluenlty1to50 in Japanese and learning too speak Japanese sentences and phrases to his sensie

Sorry if I went of on a tangent:)

[Still_Small_Voice]

Thomas Edison said: "Genius is one per cent inspiration, ninety-nine per cent perspiration."

I believe what you are saying. People who are really successful at whatever they are doing have passion for their work. If the passion is not there you get sloppy and lazy. The prize goes to those who are diligent because they are the ones who are always working at it.

[dahlia]

As to not derail another very important thread -

Most “scholars” I have encountered in essence vomit their expertise and believe “smart” people will get it and if they are not smart they should be “washed out” and not considered important. This is – in my mind the single greatest failure of American intellectualism or scholarship. It is worse than grading on the curve.

It sounds as though you have had an unfortunate educational experience. While there are a few scholars like that (for the purpose of this discussion, I am going to equate 'scholar' with a PhD-educated professor as the college educational process is how most people have interactions with scholars), most would consider themselves failures if they did not communicate their scholarship so that most people could understand it. This is not the same as saying that a person lecturing in advanced physics will be understandable to the typical layman, but for many topics - including the sciences - there are ways to make the difficult understandable.

Most scholars love their work and want other people to understand it.

[HiJolly]

I'm a Mensa certified genius, but a lousy scholar. Probably due to my ADD (which has continued to plague me in my later years), I have only succeeded in satisfying myself. It is sad because I would like to help others, but since I don't require public acclaim for my own happiness, I'm basically ok. I help where I can.

HiJolly

[Traveler]

Thomas Edison said: "Genius is one per cent inspiration, ninety-nine per cent perspiration."

I believe what you are saying. People who are really successful at whatever they are doing have passion for their work. If the passion is not there you get sloppy and lazy. The prize goes to those who are diligent because they are the ones who are always working at it.

I would expect Edison to say that. He tried several hundred variations before he “invented” a suitable electrical light bulb. Since his original light bulb we have improved on the design so that the light bulbs of today are nothing like the original Edison bulb.

Nicola Tesla was a different kind of genius. For example, he invented the brushless electric motor and in over 100 years no one has improved on his original design. Tesla believed genius was a divine gift - in other words 100% inspiration. I can give examples in other fields as well. BTW Tesla was mentored.

But my point is that our educational system that favors scholars is failing and what was once the example to the world has become an embarrassing failure. The award winning movie - “The King’s Speech” is a startling example of how scholarship stifles genius and innovation.

The Traveler

[sensibility]

Interestingly, Tesla criticised Edison for not having enough "book learning". (It also looks like he suffered from a few mental disorders, so perhaps not the greatest reference point for the workings of the human mind)

Most scholars love their work and want other people to understand it.

This is true in my experience as well. Of course education makes some people arrogant, but then I've known just as many people who struggled with educational institutions and came away arrogantly convinced that the only problem was that the system couldn't handle someone of their brilliance. In fact, I've known a lot of people like that; I grew up in classical homeschooling culture, and that brand of arrogance is rampant (and, in my estimation, very often misplaced).

Traveler, I disagree with your implied assertion that Jesus disrespects scholars. The fact that he had problems with a specific branch of religious scholars doesn't mean that he doesn't honour scholarship. You might as well say that, because he called several fishermen as apostles, fishermen are God's chosen people . . . or that tax collectors are, heaven forfend. I think Jesus himself was a scholar.

When considering someone's "inherent" talents and abilities, I think it's good to remember that we don't come to earth as blank slates. We spent our premortal existence studying. Even if we don't remember the drudge work, I think our abilities are the result of focused study -- scholarship.

I think we'll be shocked to discover how many subjects we studied. I once met a man who received a blessing from the prophet in which he was told that he had learned to make stained glass in the premortal life.

Edited May 9, 2011 by sensibility

[JudoMinja]

I have my own beefs with the United States education system. I believe it to be terribly, horribly designed. The only students who do well in this system are those who are driven to learn and excel- students who would do well in any system.

I believe it is a wonderful thing to be educated, but a degree does not necessarily an educated person make. There are many ways to learn, many things to learn, and we all excel in different things. The Lord designed us differently, so that we would each have unique talents to share with those around us. We all have particular areas where we are skilled and "gifted", and other areas where we constantly struggle. Some have many talents and some have few, but not a one of us is so gifted that we could accomplish absolutely everything of note entirely on our own. We need one another to share our talents and gifts so that we can accomplish brilliance in every aspect of life. There is a reason the Lord made us this way- so that we could serve and help others each with our own unique brilliance and talents.

Our education system focuses on only one type of brilliance, and because of that it is failing. Our schools are designed to cater to one learning style, one pattern, one rigid form. Those who cannot conform find themselves struggling, but if we could redesign the system to be open to different styles and different talents, everyone could excel in their own particular area of expertise.

I am of the belief that everyone holds within their being some form of genius- their own unique devine nature. In the simplest and truest sense, genius is nothing more than the ability to excel beyond assumed boundaries. One does not have to know everything to be a genius, and one can know "everything" and still find their genius lacking. When we can light the spark of passion in every individual and drive them to excel in their greatest capacity, I will believe we have cured our education system.

[skippy740]

Never let school get in the way of a good education.

[Traveler]

Interestingly, Tesla criticised Edison for not having enough "book learning". (It also looks like he suffered from a few mental disorders, so perhaps not the greatest reference point for the workings of the human mind)

This is true in my experience as well. Of course education makes some people arrogant, but then I've known just as many people who struggled with educational institutions and came away arrogantly convinced that the only problem was that the system couldn't handle someone of their brilliance. In fact, I've known a lot of people like that; I grew up in classical homeschooling culture, and that brand of arrogance is rampant (and, in my estimation, very often misplaced).

Traveler, I disagree with your implied assertion that Jesus disrespects scholars. The fact that he had problems with a specific branch of religious scholars doesn't mean that he doesn't honour scholarship. You might as well say that, because he called several fishermen as apostles, fishermen are God's chosen people . . . or that tax collectors are, heaven forfend. I think Jesus himself was a scholar.

When considering someone's "inherent" talents and abilities, I think it's good to remember that we don't come to earth as blank slates. We spent our premortal existence studying. Even if we don't remember the drudge work, I think our abilities are the result of focused study -- scholarship.

I think we'll be shocked to discover how many subjects we studied. I once met a man who received a blessing from the prophet in which he was told that he had learned to make stained glass in the premortal life.

Thank you for your post. It is my understanding that a scholar is not just someone that has studied something. In fact my studies indicate that the origins “scholarship” by definition is to reconcile classical philosophies with religion. Or to put it bluntly - The philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

The Traveler

[Backroads]

I think the US education system does have some great things to offer, but it is more consumed with making data look good and implenting "Best Practices" (with little concern for individual students) and making sure everyone gets the median that it pretty much crumbles.

[Netgood]

US education is utterly broken. We should just pay moms to teach their children. We waste so much on the babysitter teachers and their huge pensions. If parents can't teach their children then they will fail anyways

[dahlia]

I think the US education system does have some great things to offer, but it is more consumed with making data look good and implenting "Best Practices" (with little concern for individual students) and making sure everyone gets the median that it pretty much crumbles.

This is the problem with the large public school systems. We didn't have this problem in the smaller Catholic schools I attended - though I'd say that teachers back then certainly saw learning and education one way and if you learned better by listening or some other style, than by reading, you were sunk.

There is something called 'institutionalism' which pretty much explains what you've said above. After awhile, the main purpose of almost any organization gets lost and the organization, and people in it, start to act in ways that perpetuate the myth of the org's original purpose, but in actuality, no longer have anything to do with it. Ergo, the purpose of schools becomes to pay teachers, give tests, house kids during the day, etc. Education becomes less and less a part of what is accomplished. Sad but true.

[Guest]

I think the US education system does have some great things to offer, but it is more consumed with making data look good and implenting "Best Practices" (with little concern for individual students) and making sure everyone gets the median that it pretty much crumbles.

This is only true for Public Education System. For example, this description does not apply to the Montessori school my child goes to.

US education is utterly broken. We should just pay moms to teach their children. We waste so much on the babysitter teachers and their huge pensions. If parents can't teach their children then they will fail anyways

I hope not! I am an educated person - got my Master's just last week - but I can tell you right now, if you rely on me to teach my children, they will not go far in life. I am great at learning but I suck at teaching.

[Backroads]

Oh, I disagree with the idea of paying parents to teach their children. That suggests that ALL education is a waste of time.

I think we've had this discussion before. anatess, I'm looking at getting into charter schools. When I was teaching in the public school system, it was frustrating. You're expected to teach the kids (which is fine, of course) but only if you did it their way. Sigh. It's hard to meet needs.

[volgadon]

My parents were at a lecture given many years ago by a prominent Israeli archaeologist. A scholar you'd despise. He spotted an old kibbutznik in the back who was still wearing his work clothes. The archaeologist pointed to the old man and said this guy is perhaps the most knowledgeable person on the planet when it comes to such-and-such a dig, he should be delivering the lecture instead of me. Guess what, the old guy wasn't the sort who would lash out with derision and contempt at scholars like you seem to. He worked at the dig and carried out research on his own, using the tools of scholarship.

BTW, I'm an autodidact.

Edited May 10, 2011 by volgadon

[skippy740]

K12 | Online Public School, Online High School, Online Private School, Homeschooling, and Online Courses options

Anybody ever use the K12 school?

In California, it's a state-sponsored school. They provided EVERYTHING! Computer, new books, educational toys... everything at NO COST! We had my daughter in it for her 1st grade year. There was also local groups that would go places so your kids can get exposed to other kids too.

It was tough for my wife to do the program consistently when you have (at the time) a 6-year old, a 4-year old and a 2-year old. The 4 & 2 year olds, not being in the school, also had their need for "mommy" time. If the family dynamics were different (older children), it might've worked. My wife just wasn't able to be consistent with it day-to-day.

But I thought it was a great way to home school with the support of a school behind it.

[Traveler]

My parents were at a lecture given many years ago by a prominent Israeli archaeologist. A scholar you'd despise. He spotted an old kibbutznik in the back who was still wearing his work clothes. The archaeologist pointed to the old man and said this guy is perhaps the most knowledgeable person on the planet when it comes to such-and-such a dig, he should be delivering the lecture instead of me. Guess what, the old guy wasn't the sort who would lash out with derision and contempt at scholars like you seem to. He worked at the dig and carried out research on his own, using the tools of scholarship.

BTW, I'm an autodidact.

It is interesting that you think I despise scholars. I am (was) a personal friend of the late Tom Newman. I have done work with him at archaeological digs and I have offered opinion at symposiums and conventions as per his requests. I studied under Tracy Hall at BYU. For a time Hugh Nibley was my home teacher and as a youth I delivered the Deseret News to Eldon Ricks.

Much of my opinions were shaped by my personal relationship with Hugh Nibley who had little regard for what you call “scholars” - the ethereal robes worn as a mantel of scholarship in commencements of academia he calls the black robes of the false priesthood. Although he is often called the greatest LDS scholar - he despised that title.

I do not despise any of the men I have mentioned, in fact I hold them all in very high regard and all are considered and honored as scholars.

I try very hard to not despise others - but I am not impressed with those that parrot opinions of individuals solely on the accolades of their scholastic position and especially without any research or rhetorical analysis.

And unlike you I am very much dependent on others that have influenced me (especially my father) and I am willing to give them all credit and any honor.

The Traveler

[The_Phoenix]

I'm a Mensa certified genius, but a lousy scholar. Probably due to my ADD (which has continued to plague me in my later years), I have only succeeded in satisfying myself. It is sad because I would like to help others, but since I don't require public acclaim for my own happiness, I'm basically ok. I help where I can.

HiJolly

I am neither a scholar nor a genius, but in my area of expertise I am well respected. I get calls from all over the country, where I am asked my opinion on something. I am the Chairman of the Education Committee for my State association. However I have never been to College, but I have taught for 22 years at a local College. I give an annual lecture and one of the most respected Universities in America. Although I teach at a number of Colleges and Universities, I have never attended one hour of College, and I dropped out of High School in the 12th grade. When I enlisted in the Army they sent me to finish my education.

In short I am an enigma. I taught myself what I know with little help.

[Traveler]

Careful my friend - it is a proven fact that over 50% of the genius in the USA is never identified in the courses of our lower education system and never make it to college. If I were a betting person (which I am not) I would bet that if I could spend a few hours with you I could identify - not only that you are a genius but specifically what your exceptional learning skills and abilities are.

The Traveler

BTW - most likely my beloved critic volgadon is also among the geniuses that the great scholars of our social structure never were able to recognize.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Traveler