Question about tithing?

[crystalb]

I'm preparing for my first temple recommend interview and I want to make sure that I fully understand what tithing is and isn't.

I don't have a typical source of income. I became disabled many years ago, before joining the church, and have only recently started receiving monthly disability checks. I know that tithing should come first, that it should be 10% of my income, but what I don't know is how this would/should apply to disability benefits. I've heard the stories about how even in the toughest of times when someone makes the sacrifice of paying tithing that the benefits will come.

For me, personally writing a check for 10% of my disability check every month would be devastating and could many times mean the difference between having enough food for the month and going hungry, between being able to meet my legal obligations (car payment, insurance, medical bills, etc) and to have to risk my car being repossessed or losing my insurance. I want to be worthy of the recommend that I am seeking but I'm worried that my situation won't allow me to be.

I've researched and studied the scriptures and prayed and I just can't seem to satisfy this question. Does anyone have any experience with this? Any advice?

[Vort]

Tithing means paying one-tenth of your interest annually.

That is the only definition of tithing. Anyone who says otherwise is not speaking with divine authorization.

How does this apply to you, in your circumstances? What constitutes your annual interest? That is a matter between you, God, and your bishop.

Now, if you want opinions, we have a hundred people who will offer you a hundred and ten different opinions on the matter. I'll even pipe up, if that's what you're looking for. But those opinions and two dollars will buy you a cup of hot cocoa at your local Starbucks. The bottom line on the matter is what I quoted in the first sentence.

[SQUARE]

Tithing or 10%, should be payed on anything that is gained. This includes disability. I know that it will be tough, but you can do it. The blessings of paying of tithing are worth it. Malachi 3:8-12." Prove me know herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it". You will sleep better at night i promise you. If you can not pay your bills and get the required food you need to survive, talk with your Bishop and you can get food from the Bishop Storehouse, and help with bills if needed. It is worth it. :)

Edited May 31, 2011 by SQUARE

[crystalb]

Wouldn't paying the 10% and then needing assistance from the church to make sure I have enough to eat and can pay my bills work against each other?

[Just_A_Guy]

In a sense, yes. But since the Bishop manages both accounts at the ward level, you may want to let him know of the conundrum and see what he says.

[SQUARE]

You would be better off paying your 10% Tithing, kneeling down and asking Heavenly Father to provide for your needs. Yes is does sound kind of funny, but it is true. "Prove Him"..... Anything gained this includes all sources, (Except when receiving church welfare substances). If you have to try to justify why you should not have to pay tithing on your disability, than you do not understand the law of tithing. This is one reason why many LDS Members can not go to the Temple. I am glad the standards are high. This ensures the integrity of the sacred ordinances that are performed in the Temple. It is not easy, but it is worth it. Hope to see you at the temple.:)

[Jennarator]

Wouldn't paying the 10% and then needing assistance from the church to make sure I have enough to eat and can pay my bills work against each other?

Nope. We are told to tithe. ASsistance from the welfare program of the church is seperate and paid for by fast offerings, not tithing. :)

[Iggy]

Wouldn't paying the 10% and then needing assistance from the church to make sure I have enough to eat and can pay my bills work against each other?

Not really. When I was newly separated from hubby#1- if I paid my tithing I didn't have money for food or rent. My Branch President counseled me to pay my tithing, and the Church will supply my food and pay my rent.

In four months time, I changed jobs (getting more in wages) and moved to a larger home (for less rent & the house was better insulated thus electricity was way, way less) and could now pay tithing and all of my bills. Granted I didn't have a lot of left over money- sometimes all I had for gas for the car was $20.00 a month. BUT I also picked up extra cash (tithed on this also) by cleaning a couple of homes.

When, in faith, you pay your tithing knowing that you will be unable to pay a bill, put gas in the car, or food on your table, the Lord will provide for you.

You need to talk with your Bishop regarding this. He will council you in what the Church will/can do when you do what is asked of you by the Lord.

[crystalb]

My concern isn't so much with intention. If I had a source of income I would gladly tithe the full 10% every month. And it's not really about guilt. I don't feel guilty about not tithing because financially I'm not able to.

My check, technically, is Social Security Disability Insurance and is not considered a source of income by the government (and not by me either since it's barely 5% of what my income was before I got sick). It's not taxable, hence the question remains of tithability, if that's a word.

And my situation isn't going to turn around anytime soon. My disability isn't going to go away or get better and the best my doctors can say is that for the foreseeable future I will not be able to work.

[Jennarator]

My concern isn't so much with intention. If I had a source of income I would gladly tithe the full 10% every month. And it's not really about guilt. I don't feel guilty about not tithing because financially I'm not able to.

My check, technically, is Social Security Disability Insurance and is not considered a source of income by the government (and not by me either since it's barely 5% of what my income was before I got sick). It's not taxable, hence the question remains of tithability, if that's a word.

And my situation isn't going to turn around anytime soon. My disability isn't going to go away or get better and the best my doctors can say is that for the foreseeable future I will not be able to work.

I agree with those that say to talk to your bishop. He will councel you.

[Iggy]

It's not taxable, hence the question remains of tithability, if that's a word.

Whether an "increase" aka income is taxable or not has no bearing as to whether it is eligible to be tithed on. Not all countries tax income.

What Vort said in his reply to you:

How does this apply to you, in your circumstances? What constitutes your annual interest? That is a matter between you, God, and your bishop.

emphasis added by me.

To repeat: Talk this over with your Bishop.

[pam]

May I recommend these?

What if a person does everything else but can’t afford tithing?

Why should I pay tithing when I can barely afford to keep the electricity on?

How do I get a temple recommend if I can’t afford to pay tithing?

[KrazyKay]

My concern isn't so much with intention. If I had a source of income I would gladly tithe the full 10% every month. And it's not really about guilt. I don't feel guilty about not tithing because financially I'm not able to.

My check, technically, is Social Security Disability Insurance and is not considered a source of income by the government (and not by me either since it's barely 5% of what my income was before I got sick). It's not taxable, hence the question remains of tithability, if that's a word.

And my situation isn't going to turn around anytime soon. My disability isn't going to go away or get better and the best my doctors can say is that for the foreseeable future I will not be able to work.

I agree with the others, talk to your bishop.

Now, let me tell you my story. Right now, neither my husband nor myself work. I have done some substitute teaching this past year - but that isn't steady income. By parents give us just enough each month for bills. What my parents give us is considered a gift and also is not taxable according to the government. But we are still paying tithing on it. Although we aren't being blessed with my husband getting a job while I finish college, we are being blessed with good health on all of us. My husband has type II diabetes, but he has been controlling it with just diet and exercise. I know Heavenly Father is blessing us by helping my husband to not need to become dependent on insulin or the diabetic pills. I also know Heavenly Father has been helping me with passing my assignments and tests while I finish my college degree. So even though the money from my parents each month is considered a gift, we are still paying tithing on it.

[Iggy]

May I recommend these?

What if a person does everything else but can’t afford tithing?

Why should I pay tithing when I can barely afford to keep the electricity on?

How do I get a temple recommend if I can’t afford to pay tithing?

Wonderful articles - thanks for the links Pam!

[Vort]

My concern isn't so much with intention. If I had a source of income I would gladly tithe the full 10% every month. And it's not really about guilt. I don't feel guilty about not tithing because financially I'm not able to.

My check, technically, is Social Security Disability Insurance and is not considered a source of income by the government (and not by me either since it's barely 5% of what my income was before I got sick). It's not taxable, hence the question remains of tithability, if that's a word.

And my situation isn't going to turn around anytime soon. My disability isn't going to go away or get better and the best my doctors can say is that for the foreseeable future I will not be able to work.

It appears you're looking for opinions, after all. So with the caveat that tithing is defined as I originally responded and that the matter is between you, God, and your bishop, I'll weigh in with my opinion.

Taxable status has exactly ZERO to do with tithing. You receive income from <insert source -- government, inheritance, random people off the street, whatever>. That income is increase for you, so therefore you pay 10% of it for a tithe. If you do not pay 10% of it, you are not paying a full tithe.

Period.

You may dance around and justify it however you like. It makes no difference to me. But in my opinion, your government income most certainly is increase, and therefore should be tithed, the same as any other increase.

There ya go. My opinion. Ask me again, and perhaps I'll provide another.

[Dravin]

Wouldn't paying the 10% and then needing assistance from the church to make sure I have enough to eat and can pay my bills work against each other?

No. Tithing isn't about money (that's surely involved) it's about sacrifice. As a practical matter Fast Offerings is what would go towards supporting you not tithing, so the money isn't even from the same pot. You can always ask your Bishop though, everyone I'm aware of their opinion on the matter (which admittedly isn't exactly a large sample size) I've heard would prefer you tithe and they help with your rent then not have you tithe, but if your Bishop renders the position that you don't need to tithe, you can in full confidence report yourself as a full tithe payer to him (and your Stake President).

[hols33sing]

If you look at it this way the money you are receiving from SSA was already tithed if you have been a tithe payer your entire life. The money you worked for putting in your "bank" to receive your SS ck later in life. Meaning... when I worked for years I put money from my ck in SS. That money each ck I received I tithed on it. So if you tithe with what you are getting from the SSA admin in my opinion you are tithing TWICE. Now if you are new member and never tithed etc:.. that is diff. Again discuss w/ your bishop.

[Anddenex]

I like Elder Eyrings comment regarding tithing:

The law of tithing is one of those preparatory commandments. The law is that we give to the Lord one-tenth of all our income. It is simple enough that even a child can understand it. I have seen children hand a bishop a tithing envelope that contains one-tenth of the coins they earned.

From a First Presidency Message titlted, "The Blessings of Tithing."

[Backroads]

I agree 100% with Vort's definition of tithing--I don't know any other definition (other than the ones of "do I pay on the gross or the net with the return?" and that ilk, which I don't believe trump the definition of what tithing is).

Let your bishop know your concerns, pay the 10% of your check, see how you do, ask God for help and blessings, ask bishop and others for help if it comes down to that.

What I can tell you is that things will work out, one way or the other.

[JayJ]

The Church Handbook instructs us:

"The First Presidency has written: 'The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay ‘one-tenth of all their interest annually,’ which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this.'(First Presidency letter, Mar. 19, 1970; see also D&C 119:4).

Who Should Pay Tithing

All members who have income should pay tithing, with the following exceptions:

1. Members who are entirely dependent on Church welfare assistance.

2. Full-time missionaries. (However, missionaries should pay tithing on personal income beyond the amount they receive for their support.)"

As mentioned above, no one has the right to define "interest" or "income" on an individual level with the exception of those leaders who labor under the keys of the priesthood associated with that judgment.

As far as financial shortcomings, tithing is not a matter of money but rather faith. Talking with your bishop about those concerns may open certain windows from heaven as he has the responsibility to seek out the poor and needy and succor them in their needs.

Have faith and be of good cheer.

[Vort]

If you look at it this way the money you are receiving from SSA was already tithed if you have been a tithe payer your entire life. The money you worked for putting in your "bank" to receive your SS ck later in life. Meaning... when I worked for years I put money from my ck in SS. That money each ck I received I tithed on it. So if you tithe with what you are getting from the SSA admin in my opinion you are tithing TWICE. Now if you are new member and never tithed etc:.. that is diff. Again discuss w/ your bishop.

Actually, no. I have tithed my entire life -- but I do not pay tithing on FICA withholdings. Instead, I will tithe my Social Security check when I start receiving it.

In the same vein, if my employer agreed to pay me $100 for a job, but then only paid me $80 and told me they'd give me the other $20 plus interest in about 30 years, then I would tithe the $80 now and the $20+ when I receive it. Until then, it is not "increase".

I do not feel the same way about taxes, however. I consider them to be an increase, because they fund the infrastructure and government that I use. If I lived in Europe or some other high-tax place, I don't know if I would hold the same opinion.

[Ratisch]

I too am disabled. I live on SSDI. The first check I write every month is my tithing check. Tho some months I don't think I will have enough, I always manage to pay all my commitments and have enough to live on. I don't dare to not pay my tithing because I truly believe the Lord is blessing me and that if I wasn't paying my tithing, I believe some months I wouldn't have the money I need to survive.

Talk to your Bishop, explain your circumstance. Pay a true tithe for a few months and see what happens.

[candyprpl]

I'm on disability and will share my story.

Right after I was baptized (won't go into the whole story) I came up short because I had made some grave errors in my checkbook -- felt like an idiot, to be truthful. I was in tears. I wasn't going to be able to pay my rent that was coming due. I already was living in a low income apartment, had no phone or TV and still barely made it to the end of the month with enough food. Ate a lot of rice and beans, no kidding. Well, I called the Relief Society president crying about my situation. She called the Bishop and set up an appointment that evening. One of his first questions was about paying tithing. I said no, but........blah, blah, blah. He said, you need to pay your tithing the first thing after receiving your SSI check. He paid my rent and I received more groceries than I had had in a long time. A few days later I received my check and that Sunday I wrote a check for ten percent. I didn't know how I was going to make it through the month but.....(faith).

A week later, I received a letter in the mail from the State about my benefits -- my hands were shaking because I was sure it was going to be bad news -- on the contrary -- the letter informed me that they had made a mistake on my food stamps, instead of $30 a month I would be receiving $95 a month (I was single, so this is just for me and a few years ago) and they paid a makeup for what they should have been paying -- amazing. I broke down and cried. No it wasn't enough to be able to afford TV or phone but it did mean that I could eat better.

There are some other blessings that I received that is directly related to paying my tithing but I won't go into all that.

I'm not saying that you will have this experience but you will receive blessings. And having a Temple recommend and being able to go to the Temple is just one of them.

[Guest Doctrine]

Here is what the scriptures say on the matter. now I could teach you how to pay your tithing and you would never go hungry but I think it is best to read what the lord has said on the matter and come to understand what you feel is the right way.

Section 119

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Far West, Missouri, 8 July 1838, in answer to his supplication: “O Lord! Show unto thy servant how much thou requirest of the properties of thy people for a tithing” (History of the Church, 3:44). The law of tithing, as understood today, had not been given to the Church previous to this revelation. The term tithing in the prayer just quoted and in previous revelations (64:23; 85:3; 97:11) had meant not just one-tenth, but all free-will offerings, or contributions, to the Church funds. The Lord had previously given to the Church the law of consecration and stewardship of property, which members (chiefly the leading elders) entered into by a covenant that was to be everlasting. Because of failure on the part of many to abide by this covenant, the Lord withdrew it for a time and gave instead the law of tithing to the whole Church. The Prophet asked the Lord how much of their property he required for sacred purposes. The answer was this revelation.

1–5, The Saints are to pay their surplus property and then give, as tithing, one-tenth of their interest annually; 6–7, Such a course will sanctify the land of Zion.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion,

2 For the building of mine ahouse, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.

3 And this shall be the beginning of the atithing of my people.

4 And after that, those who have thus been atithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

5 Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of aZion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.

6 And I say unto you, if my people observe not this law, to keep it holy, and by this law sanctify the land of Zion unto me, that my statutes and my judgments may be kept thereon, that it may be most holy, behold, verily I say unto you, it shall not be a land of aZion unto you.

7 And this shall be an ensample unto all the astakes of Zion. Even so. Amen.

[Sharky]

After reading the many responses ....

Tithing is 10% of "increase".

The matter is one that is ultimately between you & the Lord.

Your Bishop is the one who may be asking you the question about tithing here & now, though in the the end you will be the only one there to answer when the Lord asks you that question, and, when the Lord asks you there will be no justifying or rationalizing as the Lord is & will be all knowing.

I could easily toss several "wrenches" into the equation that would confuse many & cause much pondering for others but the reality is tithes are 10% ....

What constitutes "increase" or "income" I would venture to say you already know.

Pay your tithes. A full tithe.

If you are paying what you & the Lord have come to identify as a "full tithe" & then you require assistance from the church, then go & seek that assistance.

If your circumstances permit, spend a few hours working at the Bishop's Storehouse or the cannery or Deseret Industries or one of the many other church facilities to "compensate" for the finacial or commodity support your receive from the church.

There are many disabled individuals working in such facilities; however, if your circumstances do not permit, then another will step up and fullfill that service thru their own sacrifices. That's the way the Church Welfare System is designed & works --- You receive benefits based on your own sacrifice or the sacrifices of others.

Church Welfare is seperate from tithes with one exception.

In most cases the Bishop will ask if you are a full tithe payer & if you are not he may ask that you begin making the sacrifice & paying a full-tithe as a condition of continueing to receive assistance thru the church welfare system.