Joining the Church at the cost of my marriage?

[Echo2002]

So the husband would have to get written permission from his wife if she was a non-member.

[pam]

That's for endowments. It looks like it goes both ways. I'm trying to find something on baptisms. But I am thinking it's the same policy due to the marital harmony issue. I just sent a message to two couples that are currently on a mission to ask them the policy.

Edited July 4, 2011 by pam

[FunkyTown]

I'm glad you checked that, Pam, rather than let a lot of people get up in arms and upset over something unverified.

[pam]

I'm glad you checked that, Pam, rather than let a lot of people get up in arms and upset over something unverified.

And before we have an entire discussion AGAIN about how the Church is sexist.

[estradling75]

I'm glad you checked that, Pam, rather than let a lot of people get up in arms and upset over something unverified.

Indeed which is why I asked for a source

[pam]

My suggestion-- if someone from the church invites you to go anywhere (RS get-togethers, VT stuff, lunch, play dates, etc.), or any church functions... Just say those people are your "friends" and you're gonna go do something fun to get out of the house. Its not necessary to mention to your man that its a "church function", or that you know those people from the church-- because that just makes it look like its taking over your life. That will scare him too. Let all the members in the ward know about your delicate situation, and ask them if they come by your house, to please not amplify that their relationship to you is purely church-related. Ask them to introduce themselves simply as "your friends", or perhaps, friends of the family.

Yep let's add lies and half truths into a marital relationship. That goes over well.

[skippy740]

By the way, I live in Tennessee, so it's true for American couples.

That's where I served my mission too - Tennessee Knoxville Mission.

[lvlady]

I think I am going to start attending church, and see where things go from there.

Thanks for everyone who gave their opinions/advice! I appreciate it.

[LDSJewess]

lvlady,

I wish you all the best.

I am not a proponent of divorce, however, that being saud; if you have a spouse who says thay will not love you if...... (does not need to be about religion - fill in the blanks), then you do not have a marriage at all other than signatures on paper.

Marriage is a partnership and the love within it needs to be unconditional for it to be viable.

This does not mean that both partners need to be of the same faith, the same political parties or the same in many other areas. BUT they do need to always love and respect each other no matter what and do all they can to support each other.

Never allow yourself to be emotionally manipulated. That is a form of abuse. If you want to investiage the LDS chirch or any hurch for that matter, do so. Let your husband know in no uncertain terms that if he chooses not to love you or if he places conditions on his love, they you do not have a viable marriage.

[Backroads]

Hi Everyone-

I am interested in joining the church. I have gone back and forth with it for a long time, and a good chunk of my family is LDS. However, I have been married for about 8 months now, and my husband has told me, flat out, that he will not love me if I am Mormon, or if I am even active in ANY church (When we were dating he never said anything like this.). I know divorce is wrong and I never wanted to be in this position (But who ever wants that for themselves?)and I wouldn't say, "I'm going to church now and we are over now," I would start going and see if he comes around. But I am 99% sure he wouldn't.

If anyone has any advice, I would sure appreciate it. Thank you.

Lacking time to read all the comments, so here at my thoughts:

What is the problem with this guy that his love for you is dependent on your faith? That doesn't sound like healthy love.

[LDSJewess]

Quote: "My suggestion-- if someone from the church invites you to go anywhere (RS get-togethers, VT stuff, lunch, play dates, etc.), or any church functions... Just say those people are your "friends" and you're gonna go do something fun to get out of the house. Its not necessary to mention to your man that its a "church function", or that you know those people from the church-- because that just makes it look like its taking over your life. That will scare him too. Let all the members in the ward know about your delicate situation, and ask them if they come by your house, to please not amplify that their relationship to you is purely church-related. Ask them to introduce themselves simply as "your friends", or perhaps, friends of the family. " End Quote

In my personal opinion I don't think it's a good idea to hide what you are doing and not being straight up and honest about it. It's lying and in the end that never serves a good purpose.

I would discuss the issue regarding whether the love within your m,arriage is unconditional or not. If you believe what you want for your life to be correct, then follow what you must do. God comes before what appears to be a potentially bad marriage.

[Echo2002]

That's where I served my mission too - Tennessee Knoxville Mission.

I live in Middle Tennessee. How did you like the mission?

[skippy740]

It was awesome! Although I did spend most of it outside of TN - Kentucky & Virginia. Served a part of it in Sevierville too (near Dollywood).

[Iggy]

I believe it's also the policy (correct me if I'm wrong) that a wife must get permission from her husband to take out her endowments in the temple as well.

I just remember this being brought up when I was married to a non member.

You are correct. A Sister in my Branch finally received her endowments- her husband never has been a member and after 35 years of marriage, and their three grown children receiving their own endowments and going on missions, he FINALLY gave her permission!

[Guest Sachi001]

"A married person must have the consent of his or her spouse before being baptized". I have confirmed this with Hawaii Mission President Dalton. Mission Presidents hold the keys to approving worthiness of baptism.

Regarding endowments the same applies and also the bishop or stake president must be satisfied the responsibility assumed with the endowment will not disturb the harmony of the marriage.

My earlier point was that if her husband partakes in a vow before God of "for better or worse" then he should not seek divorce or retribution for her decision to join the church. he is not sticking by his vow.

Yeah I know a whole can of worms I opened up on this point.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Sachi001

[pam]

Now I just got messages from 2 couples that are on missions. One is on a mission in Moscow, Russia from the US and the other couple is in San Diego. They told me they know of no rule that requires written permission from a spouse regarding baptism, but they do know it applies to temple endowments. Both said they each have never had to get permission from the spouse for an investigator to get baptized.

[Guest Sachi001]

Pam anybody on the Bishopric can tell you from lds.org leader resources:

CHOI Handbook 1 section 16.3.10

A married person must have the consent of his or her spouse before being baptized.

CHOI Handbook 1 section 3.3.3

A worthy member who is married to an unendowed spouse, whether the spouse is a member or nonmember, may receive his or her own endowment when (1) the bishop receives written consent from the spouse and (2) the bishop and stake president are satisfied that the responsibility assumed with the endowment will not impair marital harmony

These rules are in place to ensure matrimonial harmony in the family is not ruined. We do not want to be the cause of conflict or break-up. They need to talk with the Mission President.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Sachi001

[pam]

Can you quote me the exact words from the CHI regarding baptism? I had already quoted that same part you did on temple endowment. That's the only part you quoted.

I just find it interesting that 2 couples serving in other parts of the world state they are not required to get permission from the spouse for baptism.

*edit* Okay I will concede, I just found it: From the CHI:

"A married person must have the consent of his or her spouse before being baptized."

It just doesn't state written as it does for the endowment.

One couple just answered me on that part. They are not required to get "written" consent for baptism.

Edited July 5, 2011 by pam

[Guest Sachi001]

Reedited above for you to send

[Backroads]

I ponder this rule of spouse approval and while I suppose one could always find a sexist side to it, I think I see the reasoning behind it.

A husband and wife are partners who should be reaching an agreement on so much in life. Even if they don't have the same views on religion, they should be at a spot where they would be happy and willing to let their loved one do what is right for them.

Neo-Pagan(or whatever) spouse + spouse who is interested in joining the LDS Church/receiving endowments/insert other church thing:

Healthy relationship: I don't fully understand the LDS thing, but I know you are in intelligent and intuitive person who has studied and pondered this. Yes, I am willing to love you and strive to make our relationship work as much as I always have, if not more.

Unhealthy relationship: I don't fully understand the LDS thing, and it hurts me that you are doing something I don't feel right about/offends me/goes beyond my control. I feel this will negatively impact our relationship and I don't know if I can/am willing to make this work.

Permission from the spouse (written or verbal) strikes me as a handy proof that communication and understanding in this sacred marriage (which I believe to be sacred despite any religion or lack thereof) is going good.

[prisonchaplain]

From the passage below, I find it difficult to deny baptism to one who cannot gain their spouse's approval:

12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13And the woman which hath an ahusband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14aFor the unbelieving bhusband is csanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is dsanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us ato peace.

16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt asave thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 (lds.org)

Paul seems to instruct us to allow our spouses to leave us, if they cannot abide by our faith. This seems particular difficult, in that the LDS view of baptism is that it is a requisite of saving faith. So, what is to become of the would-be convert who cannot convince his/her spouse to permit the baptism?

[estradling75]

From the passage below, I find it difficult to deny baptism to one who cannot gain their spouse's approval:

12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13And the woman which hath an ahusband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14aFor the unbelieving bhusband is csanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is dsanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us ato peace.

16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt asave thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 (lds.org)

Paul seems to instruct us to allow our spouses to leave us, if they cannot abide by our faith. This seems particular difficult, in that the LDS view of baptism is that it is a requisite of saving faith. So, what is to become of the would-be convert who cannot convince his/her spouse to permit the baptism?

The same thing that happens to anyone that can't do something required of them because of external factors. They do the best they can with what they got and trust in the Lord's promise that nothing will be denied the faithful when it matters.

To the OP, this has put into clear showing that your marriage has issues. Looks like your first priority should be fixing that. (whatever method you end up choosing) As for you faith you can still read the scriptures, you can still pray, and otherwise work on your own spiritual growth while working on your marriage.

[Backroads]

From the passage below, I find it difficult to deny baptism to one who cannot gain their spouse's approval:

12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13And the woman which hath an ahusband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14aFor the unbelieving bhusband is csanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is dsanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us ato peace.

16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt asave thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? 1 Corinthians 7:12-16 (lds.org)

Paul seems to instruct us to allow our spouses to leave us, if they cannot abide by our faith. This seems particular difficult, in that the LDS view of baptism is that it is a requisite of saving faith. So, what is to become of the would-be convert who cannot convince his/her spouse to permit the baptism?

I truly do believe that if the spouse is not willing to consent, the relationship is probably not healthy--and this is what Paul just might be referring to when allowing them to leave their spouses.

[prisonchaplain]

I truly do believe that if the spouse is not willing to consent, the relationship is probably not healthy--and this is what Paul just might be referring to when allowing them to leave their spouses.

I want to make sure we are on the same page. Paul counsels believers that if their spouse wants to leave, because of faith, then let them leave. In other words, if you convert, and your spouse refuses to accept this, and threatens abandonment--then let him/her do so. We have to live in peace. If the unbelieving spouse wants to leave (divorce), then let them.

This comports with Jesus' counsel to "hate" our mother and father, rather than compromise our faith. Of course, He wants us to love our parents. However, if a choice must be made, I must follow my Sovereign.

We had a 15-year old come to our church. He was a Somali immigrant, and when he decided to follow Jesus, his parents told him to get out of the house. In their minds he had dishonored the family by rejecting their religion. They told their neighbors that their son was dead.

We hear this and marvel at the boy's faith. My sense it, the local ward would have told him to go back home and repent to his parents? Study the BoM on the side? I'm still not clear on this.

[Backroads]

I want to make sure we are on the same page. Paul counsels believers that if their spouse wants to leave, because of faith, then let them leave. In other words, if you convert, and your spouse refuses to accept this, and threatens abandonment--then let him/her do so. We have to live in peace. If the unbelieving spouse wants to leave (divorce), then let them.

This comports with Jesus' counsel to "hate" our mother and father, rather than compromise our faith. Of course, He wants us to love our parents. However, if a choice must be made, I must follow my Sovereign.

We had a 15-year old come to our church. He was a Somali immigrant, and when he decided to follow Jesus, his parents told him to get out of the house. In their minds he had dishonored the family by rejecting their religion. They told their neighbors that their son was dead.

We hear this and marvel at the boy's faith. My sense it, the local ward would have told him to go back home and repent to his parents? Study the BoM on the side? I'm still not clear on this.

We seem to be on the same page with the marriage, but you'll have to give me some time to come up with my feelings concerning a child.

....

....

....

I believe the local ward would welcome the boy for following the gospel, but would definitely encourage him to be as kind and respectful to his parents as possible.