Divorce thoughts

[dory]

I've been married (temple marriage) for 32+ years and I still do not love my husband. We've had marriage counseling and tried everything. My husband does love me but I just can't give him the love he needs. Too much hurt and damage over the years. He's never been abusive or anything like that.

My question is: Is it a sin to get a divorce when there hasn't been any abuse or any other reason other than shear unhappiness?? I just want out. He needs someone who will love him.

[Just_A_Guy]

I have no idea what you've gone through or what you've already tried, but there are a lot of good thoughts in here.

I don't know that I'd call divorce a "sin" under your circumstances--the specifics of which you've (understandably) kept somewhat guarded. But my inclination is that it won't make you (or him) as happy as you think it will.

[pam]

I've been married (temple marriage) for 32+ years and I still do not love my husband.

You mention still do not love..I'm going to assume though that there was love at one time? What was it that you fell in love with? Maybe you need to focus on what you did fall in love with.

[LDSJewess]

I've been married (temple marriage) for 32+ years and I still do not love my husband. We've had marriage counseling and tried everything. My husband does love me but I just can't give him the love he needs. Too much hurt and damage over the years. He's never been abusive or anything like that.

My question is: Is it a sin to get a divorce when there hasn't been any abuse or any other reason other than shear unhappiness?? I just want out. He needs someone who will love him.

Dory,

I am not judging you but I hope that you at least read the advice of an older woman who has a lot of experience with marriage and divorce.

First of all I urge you to read Proverbs 31: 10-31. Because I am Jewish by culture, I knew this part of poetic scripture referred to as the description of a "Woman of Valor." I actually have a beautiful parchment with these verses framed and displayed on my buffet shelf overlooking my dining room table to remind me of these virtues of being a wife. In Jewish custom, after the Sabbath meal the husband recites these lovely words in tribute to his wife so as to thank her. This is a custom that I still hold near and dear to my heart.

Marriage is eternal and the purpose of marriage is much more than romantic love and personal gratification. After 32 years it is not all about feel good, someones physical and emotional and need to be happy. It is two people creating a family and working in partnership toward eternal progression. I think our modern day culture places too much emphasis on the Cinderella/Prince Charming idea, rather than showing marriage as a long term goal between two partners that made a covenant with each other. There is a huge difference beterrn "happily ever after" of the story books than the perspective of "eternal marriage."

I live in an area where many of my friends are an entire generation than I am (and I am a generation older that you are). These older seniors that have been married often 60 plus years are in a phase of gratification and contentment of what they have accomplished in building a family and being through a lot both good and bad together. They are way past the romantic fantasies and their idea of LOVE is npt fulfilling romantic, emotional and physical needs. There are many ways to define love.

Now, you of course have free agency and the decision you make and any consequences or blessings from the decision you make are the result of your choices.

Now I will say from experience, that you will need to ask yourself what your definition of "love" and "happiness" is. Because if you do divorce hoping you will find greener pastures on the other side, you may not find it if you cannot define specifically what you are looking for. And if it is the emotional need kind of love, that may happen in the dating process but is likely to not be what is actually long term love in a marriage. I am n ot one to point a finger and tell you what is and is not a sin. But I will say that breaking the covenant of marriage is not something that should be done based on personal physical or emotional needs (of either partner).

I once told my children who were raised without a father, that had we not been in physical danger, I would not have divorced their father. Unfortunately my marriage to my first husband was physically violent that even involved firearms and it made it unsafe for me or my children to live with him. I chose to remain single for 17 years until they were grown. My current husband of over 20 years is a fine man. We are not in some fairy tale romantic marriage, but we are both content in knowing that we will grow old together and hopefully progress together toward the Celestial Kingdom.

Wishing you all the best.

[classylady]

Hi, Dory. Sorry, you're going through this. My marriage (30 years) has definitely been hard on me. But, luckily my husband and I have a great friendship and are committed to each other. I understand about being hurt and damage that can occur in a relationship. For me, even though I've forgiven my husband, I've never been able to fully regain my feelings for him--I guess you could say, that my feelings are "different" from what they were when we first married. And, I don't think that's particularly a bad thing. Just something that we have to work on.

Is it wrong to divorce when no abuse or infidelity has occurred? That's something that you would need to pray about and receive your own answer to. Each marriage is unique. And only you and the answer you receive to prayer can answer that. After having been married for over 32 years, it certainly doesn't sound like it's a hasty decision. Just remember, that divorce won't automatically bring you happiness. You'll have a whole new set of problems and circumstances that you'll have to deal with. Will finances be a problem? Do you have children? Often, children will take sides, and it can cause a rift in the family. They'll have to decide what parent to visit on holidays or vacation, etc. Divorce just opens up a whole new set of problems.

I wish you the best. I'll keep you in my prayers.

[dory]

I have a few kids and grandkids. I realize a divorce would cause a lot of hurt with them... and it would be awkward at family get-togethers, etc.. But it already IS awkward now because they can see that we aren't happy. There's something about the way my husband is with me that brings out the worst in me. If we weren't married and I were to meet him and go out with him. . . I would not like him. He is a much different man now than when we first met. People change over the years. He is a good man .... but our personalities just don't mix. I'm aware of those sayings like "Love is a verb", but why should it have to be work to love someone? He wants me to be someone I'm not. He's majorly religious, I'm not. He has no sense of humor, always serious, etc.... I'm just not happy when I'm with him. I know I'm being selfish but I just want to have some happiness in the remaining years I have before I end up in some rest home. Maybe its already too late.

[Just_A_Guy]

You're asking questions I can't answer, Dory. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone here say "yeah, go ahead and get your divorce", and I think LDS bishops are expressly prohibited from suggesting divorce. So you're going to have to keep working with your marriage counselor and come to a decision.

If it's true that he changed in a negative way since your marriage, that's certainly something to consider. I'm not a big fan of staying in a marriage when there's been a bait-and-switch. But hopefully you've considered the possibility that you have changed at least as much as he has. (That's not intended as a condemnation and I hope you won't take it as such; it's just that it's terribly hard to keep an accurate sense of perspective when we're looking at our own marital issues.)

You've been married 32 years; I've been married 8, so take this for what you paid for it--but I've found that love pretty much always entails some degree of "work" whether it involves my relationship with my wife, my kids, my parents, or my siblings. "And they lived happily ever after" is one of the more misleading and potentially dangerous phrases in English literature, IMHO.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Just_A_Guy

[LDSJewess]

Regarding Just-AGuy" comment on the bait and switch. I agree to a point especially if there is abuse or adultry. BUT all of us in the beginning go into marriage with that courtship kind of love and romance. When dating we all put our best selves forward, and there is generally a honeymoon period.

But as time goes by people change naturally. Not bait and switch, but as people grow older into the marriage it is no longer like dating and honeymoon feelings. Things naturally change.

Dory, I do hope that you discuss these feelings, (including that you have entertained the possibility of divorce), with your husband, Since he is religious, I would assume he would want to maintain his marriage and be willing to work on it to improve it with you..

One thing that I picked up in your recent post is that "husband is very religious and you are not." Since this is internet posting and I do not know you, I cannot discern to what degree he is religious and you are not. But the question of concern is: Are you thinking of divorce as a sense of freedom, not just from your husband but from the church? And is your extended family religious? If so how is this influencing, (or not influencing), your decisions?

The other thing to ask yourself is if you do get a divorce, in what way to you see it being of benefit to you? Do you just prefer to live alone and do your own thing? Are you hoping to find someone else that is less religious, or not religious? Are you looking for that feel good dating high that we often mistake as "love?" What do you want that you believe will make you happy? And once you are fully aware of what you want, then how do you plan on finding and obtaining the happiness you seek?

You really will need to be clear with yourself on what you hope to gain by divorce, and also what you want for your life post divorce. If you cannot answer those questions or you are unclear, then it is not the time to make such a decision and prayer and counseling should be the focus until you find those answers clearly.

Your last comment also concerns me, but cause you are only in your 40's and you made reference to (I'm paraphrasing), "enduring and then just going into a nursing home". Assuming you are in reasonable physical health, it is not typical for someone your age to be thinking about nursing homes. I am in my 60's and assisted living and nursing homes are the furthest thing from my mind because I am way to busy planning my future. Thinking about the end years of your life when you have only reached mid life could be a sign of depression, peri manopause or a host of other things that are treatable.

You say you don't love your husband. But ask yourself if you love yourself? Because loving yourself is a criteria to being able to love others. If you become happy with yourself, then it may be less important to be concerned about being in love. In other words, you say you are not able to love your husband. But are you able to love yourself?

You need not answer these questions on a forum like this. This is meant for food for thought for you to ponder and pray about.

I do hope that you get counseling on many levels, not just for your marriage but for your self and determining how your own feelings have changed.

I will continue to hold you in my thoughts and prayers.

[mimi]

From your post I'm getting that you never loved your husband. have you dwelt on that thought since you've been married? in this culture, we are very caught up on love in marriage. and don't get me wrong. love in marriage is a great, wonderful thing. but in other cultures, people don't love each other when they get married. heck, they usually haven't even ever met. they're love for each other grows as they get to know each other in marriage. and surprisingly (to us anyway) statistically, they have happier marriages. love really is something that you choose to have. and it can be hard because even little thoughts of "oh I don't love him. we weren't meant to be" can hamper the growth of it. so marriages that start out loveless can definitely work. we just aren't used to that order of business in our culture.

You asked why should it be work to love someone? because it does take work to get the real kind of deep, unconditional love and commitment that comes from a good marriage. sure, you can get a more superficial kind of love without the work, but the lasting kind takes real effort. focus on your husband's good points and learn to understand him. you say he has no sense of humor? maybe you just haven't found it yet.

but to address the second part of your question, would it be a sin for you if you did decide to get a divorce...IMO, no. divorce is such a hard thing,and should try to be avoided at all costs, but I don't think it is a sin if it is done for the right reasons. and one of those reasons might be that the marriage is causing stress in the family. not because of abuse but because of bad feelings. though i do think you should really stop and think about how a divorce would accept your husband. if he still loves you, then there is always a reason to try to keep your marriage together. and if you talk to him about how you feel about him then maybe it will make him try harder also such as being more open to your views or things that you want to do/are important to you. change comes from both sides in a marriage afterall.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I've been married (temple marriage) for 32+ years and I still do not love my husband. We've had marriage counseling and tried everything. My husband does love me but I just can't give him the love he needs. Too much hurt and damage over the years. He's never been abusive or anything like that.

My question is: Is it a sin to get a divorce when there hasn't been any abuse or any other reason other than shear unhappiness?? I just want out. He needs someone who will love him.

If there is not abuse or any problems within your marriage for 32+ years and yet you are saying you do not love him, I have to ask something very personal. Do you suffer from depression and because of this, you feel that he deserves someone better? I am keying in on the statement that you are saying he needs someone who will love him.

I personally do not buy into the whole "I fell in love with you ergo I can fall out of love with you."

When we marry and we take out our covenants in the temple, we are committing ourselves. Love no longer becomes a feeling, a sensation, it becomes something we have to cultivate within ourselves. Typically, those who find themselves not able to love their spouse, are the one's who generally find it difficult to love themselves.

You also mention that there is alot of hurt and damage. What hurt and what damage? If there is no abuse or anything else, then what would be the cause of the hurt and damage? Are there trust issues? Were you married before and that ended badly? Was there something he had said to you that you misunderstood, took offense?

Being unhappy is not merely something that a person wakes up and realizes "Hey, I am unhappy and you are better off with someone else" Something has to have happened, something that has been allowed to fester and boil to get one to that point.

Yes, these are very hard questions, and yes it is none of mine or anyone else's business. However, they are questions that need to be asked to fully understand the purpose and reason.

Personally, just because you feel that you are not in love with your husband anymore is not really a sound reason to divorce him. I would even further to say that maybe marriage counseling did not work because there were no issues causing harm in the marriage to begin with and the issue rests in the individual themselves and there must be individual counseling to find out why you are unhappy, why you feel the way you do, and why, after all these years, you still don't "love him" the way he loves you.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I have a few kids and grandkids. I realize a divorce would cause a lot of hurt with them... and it would be awkward at family get-togethers, etc.. But it already IS awkward now because they can see that we aren't happy. There's something about the way my husband is with me that brings out the worst in me. If we weren't married and I were to meet him and go out with him. . . I would not like him. He is a much different man now than when we first met. People change over the years. He is a good man .... but our personalities just don't mix. I'm aware of those sayings like "Love is a verb", but why should it have to be work to love someone? He wants me to be someone I'm not. He's majorly religious, I'm not. He has no sense of humor, always serious, etc.... I'm just not happy when I'm with him. I know I'm being selfish but I just want to have some happiness in the remaining years I have before I end up in some rest home. Maybe its already too late.

I just read this after posting my initial response to you.

Relationships take work to maintain. One has to cultivate their relationship. A healthy strong relationship does not happen over night. To presume that a it should not take work to maintain and cultivate a healthy and vibrant relationship means one is being slothful and lazy. They expect to be entitled to privileges, blessings and benefits. What it really sounds like to me is that you have shifted from an eternal perspective on love and marriage and have accepted the more predominate worldview of "well, if you don't love someone anymore, why remain in the marriage, go out and find someone new". The problem with this worldly philosophy is that many now remain in relationships for less than 2 years because they feel that after 2 years it is time to move on. These people end up being more miserable in their lives than they are if they stayed and worked on their relationship in the beginning and did what they should do.

Today, in the Elder's Quorum, I taught the lesson on Family Responsibilities. In the Family Guidebook it talks about Family responsibilities in the area of meeting the physical needs of family. This statement struck me and was further impressed upon me when I read your second posting:

To become self-reliant, family members must be willing to work. Work is physical, mental, or spiritual effort. It is the source of accomplishment, happiness, self-esteem, and prosperity.

We all are aware of the need to be self-reliant in the physical/temporal realm, however, there is also the spiritual self-reliant. This is the most crucial part of our lives. You mentioned that he is "religious" and you are not. This does tend to cause friction, especially when a spouse suddenly loses their faith and hope in the Gospel principles.

Therefore, here is my challenge to you. Take the next thirty days specifically pray to our Heavenly Father about your concerns, your feelings, why you feel the way you feel, seek out direction and counsel. One poster mentioned reading Proverbs 31 about the virtuous woman. I would suggest to read the Gospel accounts of Jesus praying in the Garden of Gethsemane. While you do these things, start a journal. Grab a cheap notebook, write down your thoughts, impressions, as you read the scriptures, look for how people like Lehi and his wife clashed, the conflict in their marriage, look up on LDS.org about family, and the duties of the wife. Look up scriptures that deal with faith, trials, and hope.

I guarantee you that after thirty days of doing this, you will receive an answer and direction in where to go and what should be done.

[sweetiepie]

I am taking it her husband would not want a divorce if she suggested that she was so unhappy she was considering one? With marriage counseling, can't one of the spouses share what they would like to change to make them happier? Maybe she would like to have a courtship again, a little romance...shouldn't he be willing to do that to help improve the marriage?

I do not think a marriage of 32 years with no covenants broken should end in divorce. However, I think each deserves to be happy.

Will he work on what you would like to change in the marriage? Will you work on what he would like to change? He might be more willing if you shared your thoughts on divorce. Be honest. Don't secretly harbor these thoughts. And like a lot of the advice on here, go to your Heavenly Father and tell him your fears and unhappiness and what you should do. Ask to soften you and your husband's hearts.

[JudoMinja]

Marriage is meant to be eternal. God knows better than anyone that people change- he created us. Yet, knowing we change, he instituted this covenant of marriage to join two people together forever. Now there are going to be some instances where the changes you go through really make your marriage unhealthy and destructive. Only you, with the inspiration from the Lord, can determine if your marriage has reached such an impass. Divorce becomes a much better idea than sticking it through when a relationship has become dangerous or degrading. These extreme cases used to be rare, but the circumstances that create these irrepairable results seem to be becoming more and more common in the world.

Your greatest complaints on here are that you are unhappy and do not love him. So you need to ask yourself (and you don't have to answer here) WHY are you unhappy. WHY don't you love him? And are these things that will be fixed by divorce? It's possible it will, and it's possible that you are just looking to divorce as an escape, that the real problem will not be solved and you will still be unhappy and unloving.

Saying he deserves someone who can love him is a cop-out. It is a sign that causes me to think you are using divorce as an escape. I may be wrong, but others have hinted to the same thing- I think the real problem is that you are suffering from depression. It could have been triggered by a mid-life crisis, menopause, having become an empty-nester, or any number of other possibilities. But if depression is really your problem, getting a divorce won't make it better. It will only make it worse.

[rameumptom]

Why are you asking us if you should leave? And if you divorce him after this many years, who is to be sure that there will be someone waiting in the wings to love him? I mean, if it has been 32 years, then he's probably in his 50s, and it isn't easy to find someone at that age to love, etc.

The real answer is for you to stop imagining a fairy tale romantic love for yourself, and learn to choose to love your husband. Real Christ-like love is a choice. One does not fall into or out of real love. One chooses it and lives by it.

This is why the marriage covenant isn't just a business contract one can make and then leave later. To honor your marriage covenant, whether it was done in the temple or without, requires you to choose to love your husband. To do otherwise is a sin.

It is time to think about the good things he does for you, and to appreciate those things enough to realize just how blessed you are. Stop thinking about being with others, or that you will find a romance for yourself. Satan is deceiving you, and sadly, has done so for decades. Time to repent and step up to your duty to love your husband.

[garryw]

Satan is deceiving you

well said. I have and aunt that divorced after 20+ years and now her position is "I have no idea what I was thinking" and "maybe he will take me back in the next life"

That is most likely where you will end up emotionally. But on the other hand, perhaps the grass is greener on the other side and life will be all bliss for you.

Edited July 11, 2011 by garryw

[Windseeker]

Im not getting a sense there is true Forgiveness. Its the most important thing in any relationship. When you truly forgive you truly understand that person which enables you to truly love.

[dory]

Thanks everyone. You've given me some good things to think about. I thought by the time I got to be this age I'd have everything all figured out. The body has matured a bit .... but obviously the brain is still a teenager. I think I just might be experiencing a bit of a mid-life crisis. I'm a little embarrassed about my post now. Oh well, I guess all I can say is this:

"Thanks. I needed that."

[ruthiechan]

Thanks everyone. You've given me some good things to think about. I thought by the time I got to be this age I'd have everything all figured out. The body has matured a bit .... but obviously the brain is still a teenager. I think I just might be experiencing a bit of a mid-life crisis. I'm a little embarrassed about my post now. Oh well, I guess all I can say is this:

"Thanks. I needed that."

My sister experienced a bit of a midlife crisis where she started thinking about other men. After she talked to her husband about it, it went away and hasn't been a problem since.

[Jennarator]

DOn't be embarressed. You talked it out, and if you need to talk more, LDS.net is here.

I didn't put in my 2 cents, so I'm going to.

I am divorced and dealing with my ex is difficult. But what is harder is working with my children, they don't understand. Your children might be older, but you were right when you said that part would be hard.

Also, I have been told I had great reason to get divorced and tho I still stand by my choice, I do sometimes feel the guilt of breaking the committment. (Even tho I have been told that what he did, broke it, not me.)

My point is, that should you decide to divorce, you will always have to answer questions wether they are your questions or someone else. You need to be very sure and know what you are getting into as well as what you are getting out of.

My advice, unless there is abuse or cheating, don't do it. (That is with the very limited knowlege I have, and also knowing I have no authority in the matter.)

GOOD LUCK!

[sharonmarie]

hey dory...your post sounds almost EXACTLY what i'm going thru w/ my spouse...except I'M the more 'religious' one [based on my level of enthusiasm for church participation, study, and all ]... people [family, etc.] told me i'm wrong, or told me to read this or that - things that will TELL me what is RIGHT...i KNOW what is ideal... my feelings, however, have brought me to a place that is LESS than ideal... i've learned over the years that i must ultimately trust MYSELF...when i was taught by the missionaries they did not say to believe them or anything they teach, or anything i read...but to PRAY & get my own answers...the lord asks, 'what do u WANT?'... and says to 'study it out in YOUR OWN MIND'...of course, divorce is not GOOD...divorce is not IDEAL...divorce is the last thing i EVER wanted...[everyone in my immediate family has been divorced...except me]...i wanted to be the ONE...the EXAMPLE... the SUCCESS story like paul newman and his wife...or brother & sister hinckley...or like so many others who make the grade...as one bishop's wife told me...'either choice will be hard'...whether you choose to stick it out , or choose to go it alone...you will have tough times...my spouse and i are both in personal church counseling for what has transpired over the years to bring us to this point ... right and wrong is not always black and white...as i experience things i NEVER wanted to experience in life i discover about 14 shades of gray...i tell people [who think things are always black and white - typically younger people] 'talk to me in 20 years...' i love the church; i participate; i attend the temple; AND i feel i cannot continue in the marriage i agreed to @ age 17 [i'm 47 now - and going thru this midlife REEVALUATION, i've found that there ARE exceptions to every rule...[remember, 'thou shalt not kill'...but nephi was commanded to take the life of laban?...abraham experienced this same dilemma...and i know people will say that my dilemma has nothing to do with these stories...but as we 'liken the scriptures unto ourselves' we will sometimes have the same EXTREMELY hard 'figuring out to do'...]...i always hated when a couple in church got divorced-i felt like they were weakening the resolve of 'the rest of us' to hang in there...and now i've become one of them...i don't know what else to say...except that i WISH ALL marriages lasted forever, and everyone lived after the manner of happiness equally yoked with their best friend...the lord wishes the same thing & teaches us this ideal; but i HAVE to follow the dictates of my own conscience AND let the consequence follow: good or bad...i know that even the 'very elect' can be deceived in the 'last days' and all i can do is the best i can according to the hand i've been dealt...and continue to believe the lord will not leave me or forsake me...everyone else may, but the lord, NEVER....

[Lolac]

Marriage is hard. I remember before my husband and I got married, we were counseled by our stake president (now divorced after having an affair) that love didn't keep marriages together but commitment. I am finding that to be true in my own marriage. I frequently feel like I no longer love my husband, but I am committed to my marriage because of the covenants I made and because I don't have the heart to hurt my children by breaking up our family. I appreciate what Rameupmpton said. I have a duty to love my husband, even though I don't like him, so I'd better get to it. I recommend to you a movie called "Fireproof." It is a faith-based movie about divorce-proofing your marriage. I bought the companion book and want to follow the steps to strengthen my marriage. I know divorce carries it's own set of problems and the grass is definitely not greener on the other side. Thanks to all for all of the good counsel. I needed to hear it today. Dory, I pray that you will find your answer. I know what you're going through.