When do you know its over?

[WilliamK]

I don't really have a listening ear and I thought maybe someone could give me some feedback on a rough situation I'm going through.

I am unemployed for the first time since I was 16 years old (now in my 40s). After 10 years my company decided that my market was too small to justify having someone here full time. I've been unemployed for over a year. It has been very humbling. I can't blame the economy though. I am waistline challenged, I have some gray in my hair, and I was paid more than anyone could demand in today's job climate. I have come to realize that when I apply for a position that there will always be several candidates that are 15 years younger, prettier, and willing to do my job for half of what my salary was. For the first year I busted my butt trying to find work. you name it I did it. I even interviewed with a company that made me take their training as part of a second job interview - at the end of which I had to walk over hot coals. I got second degree burns all over my feet but I didn't get a call back. I know, that was a really stupid thing to do but I was literally willing to do just about anything. Today I am still trying to find a job - but to be honest I am just going through the motions. I'm tired of the rejection.

My ward is nice but I am growing weary of the "have you found work yet?" I get each Sunday. I wish one of them would send me a job lead instead. (yeah I've asked). I've worked and reworked my "network" of friends and associates and I have gotten a few interviews but I have yet to be chosen. My wife has lost respect for me because she has had to go to work for the first time in 14 years to supplement my unemployment insurance and she makes it quite clear on a daily basis that she loathes it. She keeps saying that that is not how God intended it. She is supposed to be taking care of our kids and the house and I am supposed to be the provider. In other words I am failing miserably as a husband / father right now.

I go to church each Sunday with my kids and my wife joins us about half the time. She often excuses herself saying that the work week was just too draining and she needs to recharge. lately she has taken to going into her office at night after work and talking to a co worker for hours. Sometimes till 2 or 3 in the morning. She says it is just work related. That she needs his help as she gets familiar with her new job and that he is teaching her a lot that will help her be successful. She also says she needs to blow off steam with a co worker who understands her frustrations because he has them too. I have tried to talk to her, help her, etc. but with me she is just quiet and depressed. She won't talk to me much at all.

If life were lagoon I would say that I have ridden the roller coasters until I am sick and the idea of getting back in line is a horrible one. I just want to go home. I won't of course because I love my kids and don't want them to have to suffer because of my cowardice or selfishness. I'm also terrified of the eternal ramifications. So I just wake up every day and live it with a kind of sad quiet desperation. I know that sounds melodramatic but that's really how I feel. I hate my situation and I see absolutely no light at the end of the tunnel. I feel powerless to change things. I've spent a lot of time on my knees and I think God has made it pretty clear that I'm supposed to fix things on my own. He wants me to learn, grow, etc. the thing is, I'm just too dang tired to try anymore. complete fail lol. Anyway, If anyone has actually made it to the end of this novel I would love an outsider's perspective. (It felt nice just to write it all out actually) :-)

Thanks

[skippy740]

Your story is very familiar to me. (Almost describes me to a "tee".) I have not yet come out of it yet, but I wanted you to know that I understand, I've been there and wish I had the T-shirt to sell on ebay and make an easy million.

I haven't had GOOD work in over 3 years. I left a credit union as a financial advisor to pursue my own practice with a life insurance company that promised me the moon. It has nearly ruined me. I've had a couple of part-time jobs that paid very little (less than 1/4th of what I was earning before), but I just haven't landed back on my feet.

Since then, I've gone on too many job interviews to get back into a banking position (with salary & benefits)... and I'm sick of "bending over backwards" to try to be appealing enough to be selected by an employer who is just TOO DUMB to recognize talent when they see it. That I have skills for twice the responsibility and 1/2 the pay that they are offering... yet they pass me by.

Thank goodness I have an insurance license and I know life insurance rather well. I'm now in the process of building up my own agency/client-base. Without that, I would be EXTRA depressed. I feel like it's a "teaching credential", you know? Something to "fall back on" if you ever needed it. Well, now I need it, and I've got to run with it. At least, if I can master the art of building a clientele, I can make a decent income.

I am separated from my wife - who SAYS she is going to file for divorce. (She's said this for the past 4-5 months, but I have yet to be served with papers.) We have other problems, but I know that a lack of money accentuates all those problems. If you have money, it can smooth out a lot... because most women value security and feeling safe. When you don't have money, you can't provide that feeling of safety. I recognize that fact... I just can't do anything about it at the immediate moment.

For me, I've lost the hope that God could perform a miracle in my life. I do my best to live by the gospel, but my faith in a miraculous God has waned. I believe in the Atonement - for the forgiveness of my sins. I believe in the diety and mission of Jesus Christ. But He's just not helping me move any mountains or leading me in a definite path.

I think he's either directing me to do something on my own... or that I haven't done well enough to warrant being blessed. Well, I think I need to do my own business... and I simply refuse to believe that everything in my life has failed because I didn't live by the gospel standards for a while. If I believe that everything in my life is a direct result of my worthiness... then we learn that "if you're not perfect, you can't be blessed." I cannot allow myself to believe that.

If anything, I can tell you that things can be worse. Don't underestimate the need for counseling RIGHT NOW. Time to try to head this off before it gets any worse between you and your wife. Your wife may be working late, but (based on your post alone), it appears that she may be getting into an emotional affair.

If you need some inspiration, you need to watch Pursuit of Happyness. It's a ROUGH movie to watch when you're going through what we're going through. But it's a great message and a great outcome for Chris Gardner.

In fact, on YouTube, there's a 6-part video of a speach he gave. It's well worth watching. I watch this about once a month to help me "keep balanced".

Pray for personal empowerment, that you will be empowered to know your next step in your life and exactly how you will know it.

Hope this helps.

[geneliahanery]

Every person need some space in life.If one get angry for even a small reason and dont want to share anything that is the sign of breaking the relation.Nowdays there is trend of keeping a relatoin for just 6 months or may be one year.

[NeuroTypical]

Anyway, If anyone has actually made it to the end of this novel I would love an outsider's perspective.

Ahh, the good old days. I did 6 months of unemployment when the telecom bubble burst back in '02. People were estimating that Denver's telecom workforce was 50% unemployed and wandering the streets. What a dark period of my life. Your words about your relationship with your wife particularly resonate. It seemed like half of my daily fight was with her to leave me alone so I could search for a job in peace. She tells me that living with me was no walk in the park either. Being unemployed through Christmas was particularly depressing.

Things I did to make it through that time:

* Expanded my network by a couple of people per week.

* Went to the city workforce center even when I didn't have to, just to stay around sympathetic people trying to help, and to use their internet resources.

* Accepted interviews for jobs that did not sound like a good fit. At the least, it was good practice. At the most, it could have resulted in something else showing up.

* Paid tithing on the unemployment checks.

Eventually, I took a "barely good enough" hourly job. It was almost half the pay I had been making, but it was one and a half times what unemployment was bringing in. It was steady work and a foot in the door of a very good place to work.

I remember that Sunday in priesthood, when the guy asked if there were any visitors, I stood up and said "I just moved from the state of unemployment to the state of employment". I heard more than one shout of joy from somewhere behind me - no idea who they were, but apparently they were happy for me.

Dang - those were dark times. But they did end. My outlook calendar just had a popup - 7 years ago today I moved from hourly temp to permanent worker. My wife is sleeping in the next room. My kid's alarm just woke them up - time to haul them to summer school. The sun is shining.

Don't give up.

[seeking_peace]

First of all, I’m sorry about your employment situation. There is nothing more depressing than looking for work. I know that it’s especially hard on men because so much of their self-worth is tied up in their jobs. They are “what they do.” My ex-husband always felt inferior because his job had no prestige. I imagine that it was even worse after he left and was unemployed for a year and a half.

I agree with the advice that others have given you. Look for any work—even if it leaves you underemployed, you will have a job and a reason to get out of bed. Look into volunteering. Again, it will give you a sense of purpose, and it may open up unexpected job opportunities.

If you feel that your looks are holding you back, do something about them. There are hair products for men to cover grey. Use them before a job interview. Take a daily 30 minute break from your job search and go for a walk. It will clear your head and benefit your challenged waist (not quickly, but you’ll still feel better because you are doing something constructive and it will be something that you have control over).

Second of all, I think that your wife is being mean and petty. She had the luxury of being a stay at home mom for 14 years—and it is a luxury in this day and age. It’s very selfish of her to belittle you and your efforts. I think that marriage counseling is essential right now. I understand that it is an expense that you might feel like you can’t afford. But if she continues resenting you and turning to her co-worker for support, your marriage will suffer irreparable damage. She objects to working as a married woman, will she like it any more as a divorcee?

Talk to your bishop. See if the ward can help you with LDS social services. If she is unwilling to go with you, go alone.

[seeking_peace]

Somehow I double posted. I guess I'll chock it up to impatience and hitting the "post" button twice. No need to read it all over again...

Edited July 12, 2011 by seeking_peace

[JudoMinja]

You've already gotten some great advice on how to overcome this monetary adversity, and I can add my sympathy that I've "kinda" been in your situation. My story's a bit different, and I won't get into all the details, but I am now a single-mother and I spent about six months unemployed. I had the help and support of my family getting back on my feet, so I was able to establish daycare, get government aid, and did a "volunteer" internship while I tried to figure out a job and how to get back into school. I took a temp job for the census and enrolled in an online school. Now, I work a minimum wage job and am about to be finished with my bachelors this month. I've been applying like crazy to positions that my degree qualifies me for with no luck, so I'm just going to keep applying and keep furthering my education. At some point, something will fall into place, but right now I can get by where I am.

I've reached a point where I am at peace with my current situation even though I will continue to strive for something better. Maybe, that is all the Lord wants you to get out of this experience... Change your lifestyle so that you can live off what you make now, and keep on working to better yourself. Exercise (getting in shape really helps- I go to the gym every day with my mother). Further your education (may open up new doors for employment and will help train your mind- I'm of the belief that no education is a waste even if you don't "use" it). Stay strong spiritually (go to church, fullfill your calling, read your scriptures, say your prayers, and have faith that everything will work out according to the Lord's will). And just keep your head in the game- don't give up and keep applying to anything you can find, even if it will be less than what you used to make.

Now, since you put this in the "Marriage and Relationship Advice" forum, I am guessing that you are more concerned about your wife right now than your lack of employment... She is clearly not handling this situation well. While she is right that her being employed is not the way things are "supposed" to work, that is not an excuse to rag on you or be unsupportive. She should also not be talking to co-workers that late at night... I don't care if it IS work related. She could be totally innocent, but when she is home she should be focused on her family. And if she's skipping church because she needs to "recharge"... well, that is exactly what church is supposed to be for! Church gives us that spiritual recharge that gets us through the week. She needs it!

The thing is, you can see all these problems and recognize that your wife is struggling to be where she should be, and it won't do you any good... IF you are focused on trying to change her. She won't change unless she wants to change. All you can really do is be everything that you wish she would be for you, for her- support her, love her, keep the line of communication open, don't rag on her, be understanding, and give her the "space" she needs to destress and make her own decisions. Don't try to force anything on her. Just tactfully suggest things that might help her and leave the rest up to her. Continue to be a supportive, loving husband and do your best to get yourself back on your feet. Then, if she ever does come around and admit anything amiss to you, you will already be prepared for it because you saw the signs.

We can't change the people around us. We can only change ourselves. I'm sure it hurts, and it is hard to see your wife struggling when you know what would help her (going to church, being positive, focusing on her family.. etc). But she has to figure those things out for herself, and sometimes that takes time.

[garryw]

Second of all, I think that your wife is being mean and petty. She had the luxury of being a stay at home mom for 14 years—and it is a luxury in this day and age. It’s very selfish of her to belittle you and your efforts.

Sounds like she financially got a free ride for 14 years and now is a bit selfish the free ride is over. I've been laid off twice, but never unemployed for more than a week (yes thankful for that good fortune, always humbling to get laid off).

My suggestion is that it's not "your fault" but rather this is a lesson/test for your wife. And she's not passing it. Maybe I'm a little biased because my ex is sitting in her mom's basement collecting $2000/mo alimony (and that again in child support) without any concept of how selfish she is. I often fanticise of dying in a car crash so for once in her entire life she has to take some form of responsibility for herself. How else can she ever get it into her head that everything is not free?

[WilliamK]

Thank you all for your kind replies. Advice is tough to take sometimes but good advice it all was.

[WilliamK]

K update time. The wife just told me that for years she has considered me "just a friend" and said she wants to move out! Classic.

[JudoMinja]

K update time. The wife just told me that for years she has considered me "just a friend" and said she wants to move out! Classic.

I am so sorry to hear that, though it sounds like this is something you expected to happen based on the direction she has been choosing. All I can offer is a reiteration of the advice already given. You cannot change her, her choices, or her decisions. As long as you are doing your part to keep your marriage together, this will fall on her.

Ask her to go to counseling with you. It could make a big difference, but that is dependant on her willingness to try.

[AGStacker]

Sorry William. Be strong. I want to give you my honest opinion. Your wife is most likely staying late at night with a MALE coworker to do immoral things. That would be my first guess. If she loved YOU, she would be coming to you to find comfort. I am so sorry for this. Try to work things out. Anything is possible but rely on the Lord now more than ever. Cheating, fighting swearing or things of that nature do not make things better but worse.

What I am saying about your wife isn't a fact but there is NO reason for her to be alone with another MALE coworker after work is over. If she LOATHES it so much why does she stay there?

I would prepare myself for anything.

Good luck to you. Rely on the Lord and love Him. He didn't say we'd all be rich by paying tithes and offerings. At least how WE perceive riches. Our riches lie within promises of eternal families and happiness after this life.

Work with your wife if she is willing. Love her but don't overwhelm her. If she made this decision she has been thinking about it for a while now. Just let her know you love her. Get in shape. Learn something new and be the best man you can.

[AGStacker]

Sounds like she financially got a free ride for 14 years and now is a bit selfish the free ride is over. I've been laid off twice, but never unemployed for more than a week (yes thankful for that good fortune, always humbling to get laid off).

My suggestion is that it's not "your fault" but rather this is a lesson/test for your wife. And she's not passing it. Maybe I'm a little biased because my ex is sitting in her mom's basement collecting $2000/mo alimony (and that again in child support) without any concept of how selfish she is. I often fanticise of dying in a car crash so for once in her entire life she has to take some form of responsibility for herself. How else can she ever get it into her head that everything is not free?

I am sorry to hear this garry. If I understand this right, she is getting 4k a month from you? That is a lot of money.

America is about to go through one of its greatest depressions so hang on and be smart and buy gold and silver.

Edited July 21, 2011 by AGStacker

[Guest Sachi001]

UGH! Sorry to see that William K. Did you see your Bishop yet? Please do for some help. You might need some resources that he can provide to help both spiritual, mental, family and employment wise.

[WilliamK]

Well, I don't think she has been cheating physically cause the discussions have all been over the phone while she has been home in her office. It still sucks though. I told her I wanted to do the counseling thing and she hasn't responded so far. She suffers from depression / anxiety and for many many years she would spend her days in bed. She many times would start to leave the house to go to the store and then turn around and go get back in bed because she was too scared. She has seen a lot of doctors who had tried many different combinations of drugs. therapists too and through it all I stayed by her side. I vowed to be there in sickness and health and never had thoughts of abandoning her. Then, a doctor finally found the right combo of drugs and she started to do much better. She lost weight, started taking care of the house a little bit, and I was so happy - for all the members of our family. But I guess what all this has done is give her the self confidence to do what she has wanted to do for a while which is to leave. She says she is planning to get an apartment near by. We have three kids 14, 12, and 10. Perfect ages to understand what is going on and be hurt deeply by it. I feel sick inside. I feel so sad. I feel helpless. God has absolutely been there for me but he has not answered my prayers the way I want them answered. 17 years down the drain. No job, wife leaving for greener pastures, as the Brits say: "disaster" :-)

[WilliamK]

Well, I don't think she has been cheating physically cause the discussions have all been over the phone while she has been home in her office. It still sucks though. I told her I wanted to do the counseling thing and she hasn't responded so far. She suffers from depression / anxiety and for many many years she would spend her days in bed. She many times would start to leave the house to go to the store and then turn around and go get back in bed because she was too scared. She has seen a lot of doctors who had tried many different combinations of drugs. therapists too and through it all I stayed by her side. I vowed to be there in sickness and health and never had thoughts of abandoning her. Then, a doctor finally found the right combo of drugs and she started to do much better. She lost weight, started taking care of the house a little bit, and I was so happy - for all the members of our family. But I guess what all this has done is give her the self confidence to do what she has wanted to do for a while which is to leave. She says she is planning to get an apartment near by. We have three kids 14, 12, and 10. Perfect ages to understand what is going on and be hurt deeply by it. I feel sick inside. I feel so sad. I feel helpless. God has absolutely been there for me but he has not answered my prayers the way I want them answered. 17 years down the drain. No job, wife leaving for greener pastures, as the Brits say: "disaster" :-)

[seeking_peace]

I’m so sorry. Depression sucks.

My ex-husband’s psychiatrist told him that it is not unusual that when someone who suffers from long term depression finally gets control over their disease, they make major life changes. Apparently, they want to break free of everything associated with the life of pain.

It makes sense, but it doesn’t make it easy.

By being there for him and standing by his side through all of the hellishness, I became a reminder of his bad times and he wanted something (and someone else). In essence, “Thanks for putting up with the difficult me, but now that I’m easier to be around, I don’t want you anymore.”

I agree that you should talk to your bishop, and see if you can get a referral to LDS Social Services. You are going to need someone to talk to and help you through what is going to be a nightmare.

[Truegrits]

I can only imagine what you are going through. Having any one of those things happening would be hard, but to be living through/dealing with it all, at the same time...my heart and my prayers go out to you.

But those 17 years are not "down the drain". You have three wonderful gifts from those years, that will be going through these tough times, also. They will need your love, your strength, your being there for them. Maybe your being strong for them, will help you through, also.

You do not have to do it alone. Like seeking_peace said, talk with your bishop, LDS Social Services. They will help you during this hard time.

[WilliamK]

You have no idea how great it is just to get those kind responses from all of you. Thank you very much. Yeah if I can get her to go to counseling I am up for it. I think it might be too late though. I know I'm far from perfect and I can't fault the woman for being sick of me. lol. Again i just really appreciate your feedback.

Also, to those of you who have shared your own stories of struggle here - I really hope that things will turn out well for you. You are great for caring about someone you don't even know, and for taking the time to address my needs when you too are feeling the pressures of these latter days. Your courage in dealing with your problems have been an inspiration for me to work harder to get through this time and come out of it closer to the Lord and hopefully a better man as well.

Thank you!

[seeking_peace]

...and on a more positive note. Although I would never have chosen it, and I don't advocate it, in a lot of ways my divorce has been a good thing.

I've has so many witnesses of Christ's love for me. I know that Heavenly Father cares about me and knows my personal struggles. I've had overwhelming witnesses to those facts. I've been freed from the "vortex of gloom" that enveloped my home during the episodes of depression. I am no longer the keeper of my husband's secrets. I've made new friends. I've become closer to old ones. I'm closer to my siblings. I've been embraced and enfolded by my ward. Doors to missionary discussions have been opened when I talk to non-member friends about my gratitude for the service that I've received from ward members (more than I can ever list).

Sure, I miss some aspects of being married. I even miss my ex sometimes. I get lonely. I'm not as financially secure. Some days I wonder "what makes me so unlovable." But, even after 2 years, I have people point out that I look happier. I know that I did what I could to save my marriage and I know that I will be blessed for keeping my covenants. Contrary to my screen name, I have found peace in my life and I know that if you stay close to the Lord, you will too.

The hurt is temporary--just like everything else.

[AGStacker]

That's good she isn't cheating. I thought she spent late nights AT the office. My mistake. Honestly, I think the depression thing is totally garbage. I just don't believe that people have chemical imbalances. I believe that LIFE is HARD and doesn't ALWAYS go as PLANNED! This makes more sense to me. Drugs are just to dumb people down for the most part. Heal an infection or two.

Be strong and know you cannot change her decision but you should be able to influence it maybe.

[pam]

That's good she isn't cheating. I thought she spent late nights AT the office. My mistake. Honestly, I think the depression thing is totally garbage. I just don't believe that people have chemical imbalances. I believe that LIFE is HARD and doesn't ALWAYS go as PLANNED! This makes more sense to me. Drugs are just to dumb people down for the most part. Heal an infection or two.

Be strong and know you cannot change her decision but you should be able to influence it maybe.

You really aren't serious in believing that people can't have chemical imbalances?

[seeking_peace]

That's good she isn't cheating. I thought she spent late nights AT the office. My mistake. Honestly, I think the depression thing is totally garbage. I just don't believe that people have chemical imbalances. I believe that LIFE is HARD and doesn't ALWAYS go as PLANNED! This makes more sense to me. Drugs are just to dumb people down for the most part. Heal an infection or two.

.

You've obviously never lived with someone that has had an ongoing struggle with depression. It is VERY real.

Also, "cheating" isn't limited to physical interaction. An emotional affair can be just as devastating to a marriage as a sexual affair.

[AGStacker]

You've obviously never lived with someone that has had an ongoing struggle with depression. It is VERY real.

Also, "cheating" isn't limited to physical interaction. An emotional affair can be just as devastating to a marriage as a sexual affair.

I've been depressed in my life and use to be VERY obsessive compulsive yet I overcame it through knowledge and understanding and everyone here can as well. Christ's atonement can heal ALL infirmities.

[MarginOfError]

I've been depressed in my life and use to be VERY obsessive compulsive yet I overcame it through knowledge and understanding and everyone here can as well. Christ's atonement can heal ALL infirmities.

Can and will are two different things entirely. But I suspect that you don't quite grasp the difference between being depressed and being chronically depressed. As a third-party to your life, the serious lack of empathy you exhibit makes me wonder how thoroughly you've internalized the power of the Atonement (which is, afterall, very much based on empathy and compassion).