How Do You Know?

[Dr T]

Ray is close to 4000 posts. Maybe once he reaches it, he'll stop saying the same thing over and over to fill that benchmark? (Maybe not)

[Aminadi]

I am new to this forum but intrigued by the thoughts that I have seen expressed. The "burning in the bosom" that is felt by many who profess belief in the restored gospel is not the only avenue through which the Holy Ghost may testify of truth. There are many gifts of the Spirit that enable us to know the "unknowable, so to speak. I have felt many times the quiet assurance that the Holy Ghost can bestow through sudden strokes of understanding or knowledge beyond my own capacity. Whether that is in a teaching situation or personal study, still the Spirit speaks and it not only feels right, but it rings true in my soul. I have heard it said that a testimony is less dicovering and more remembering (see Helaman 5:12). When the Spirit speaks our spirits listen and though its is hard to express in words, we use the word "feel" alot, still it is there and becomes undeniable to those who have been so blessed.

Aminadi

[Dr T]

Thank you for your input Aminadi. :)

[Maureen]

No thanks, we've heard too many times that we have also lost count.

So I can't ask others to say what they think, even when they won't tell me what they have in mind, so I'll guess what you and others want is for me to go away.

Part of communicating, is making an effort to understand what others are saying. My "No thanks" response was in answer to this:

And btw, I've lost count of how many times I have said what I have said in other words, but if you need me to say it again, just let me know.

So I said "No thanks" Ray, you don't need to repeat yourself over and over again because we've already heard it many times, as you have pointed out. We get it, we've always gotten it, we are just getting tired of it. Try something new for a change. For example, read our newest poster Aminadi's post. He has succinctly expressed what it "feels" like when God communicates with him/her.

M.

[StrawberryFields]

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If someone's intent is to just be right at all costs I think they have missed the boat completely.

My intent is to love everyone no matter what they believe and I know that intent is just right. And ONE of the ways that I show my love to everyone is by teaching what I know to be right. And if people disagree and have a problem with me because I share what I know to be right, then that is their problem and I’ll still love them anyway, while I continue to try to teach them what is right. :)

Ray, I love ya but you are incorrigible,

Incorrigible = habitual, persistent, confirmed, dyed-in-the-wool, incurable, hopeless., and irredeemable

Nope.

in·cor·ri·gi·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-kôr-j-bl, -kr-)

adj.

Incapable of being corrected or reformed: an incorrigible criminal.

Firmly rooted; ineradicable: incorrigible faults.

Difficult or impossible to control or manage: an incorrigible, spoiled child.

n.

One that cannot be corrected or reformed.

As found from dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=incorrigible

Still love ya.

[Dr T]

That is the difference between a dictionary and a thesaurus. Definitions vs. synonyms. For instance, if you wanted a definition for a thesaurus you wouldn’t look in a thesaurus for that.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Speaking of which...

...what's a synonym for synonym?

[Maureen]

Speaking of which...

...what's a synonym for synonym?

That's a good question - the glorious dictionary.com has come up with this:

Main Entry: definition

Part of Speech: noun

Definition: description

Synonyms: analogue, annotation, answer, characterization, clarification, clue, comment, commentary, cue, delimitation, delineation, demarcation, denotation, determination, diagnosis, drift, elucidation, exemplification, explanation, explication, exposition, expounding, fixing, formalization, gloss, individuation, interpretation, key, outlining, rationale, rendering, rendition, representation, settling, signification, solution, synonym, terminology, translation

Antonyms: blurriness

Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.2.1)

Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: equivalence

Part of Speech: noun

Definition: sameness

Synonyms: adequation, agreement, alikeness, compatibility, conformity, correlation, correspondence, equality, evenness, exchangeability, identity, interchangeability, interchangeableness, likeness, match, par, parallel, parity, similarity, synonym, synonymy

Antonyms: difference

Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.2.1)

Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

M. :)

[prisonchaplain]

Y'all are out of control. :-)

[Ray]

There are none as blind as those who will not see.

Except for someone with their eyes poked out, but I think Ray's posting with both eyes in place.

Ray, one sign of a mature communicator, an effective one, is that they realize it's not what they say that's important, but what others hear. When they say something that produces confusion or anger in their listeners, they adapt their delivery for no reason other than to improve understanding.

Changing how you post doesn't mean your old posts were stupid or wrong or anything else. It means you're mature and skillful and fluid in how you express your ideas with an eye to furthering mutual understanding.

Try turning this:

"Only God can reveal truth and He's told me that the LDS Church is the correct Church and if you ask God He can tell you too."

into:

"I believe the LDS Church is the correct Church. I asked God and feel that He told me it's correct. It's brought me alot of joy knowing this, and I hope others can receive that joy too by gaining their own witness."

Subtle, but it makes all the difference.

Who has said and who keeps saying I keep saying the same old thing… without changing and improving my words?

Or who has seen me keep saying the same old thing without choosing to use some other words?

Or who here thinks I am only saying and that all I have ever said is…

"Only God can reveal truth and He's told me that the LDS Church is the correct Church and if you ask God He can tell you too."

…without adding a nuance here, and another nuance there, to change the way I say what I say… to help other people understand what I know… and how I feel… to try to avoid confusion… and let people know I’m not attacking them… for no other reason than to improve understanding while I continue to try to share what I know???

Huh??? Who cannot see me now???

Who cannot see what they truly could see if they stopped criticizing ME???

Does anyone need me to share how I know we could all have our eyes opened up???

Does anyone not know that I truly can know how to know I really know what is true???

I am not attacking you now. I have never attacked anyone here. I share what I know about how we can know by learning ALL that we know from only God.

And if none of y’all now want to learn anything from ME…

…that’s good. I think we are making some progress. Now if we can all learn that we should only learn from God and those who we know He has inspired, then all of us will learn what I already know about how we should learn from only God. :)

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If someone's intent is to just be right at all costs I think they have missed the boat completely.

My intent is to love everyone no matter what they believe and I know that intent is just right. And ONE of the ways that I show my love to everyone is by teaching what I know to be right. And if people disagree and have a problem with me because I share what I know to be right, then that is their problem and I’ll still love them anyway, while I continue to try to teach them what is right. :)

Ray, I love ya but you are incorrigible,

Incorrigible = habitual, persistent, confirmed, dyed-in-the-wool, incurable, hopeless., and irredeemable

Nope.

in·cor·ri·gi·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-kôr-j-bl, -kr-)

adj.

Incapable of being corrected or reformed: an incorrigible criminal.

Firmly rooted; ineradicable: incorrigible faults.

Difficult or impossible to control or manage: an incorrigible, spoiled child.

n.

One that cannot be corrected or reformed.

As found from dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=incorrigible

Still love ya.

Sorry if I burst your bubble, Strawberry, but I can be corrected when I know I am wrong.

And the "one" who helps me know when I'm wrong and when I'm right is nobody other than God.

And the power that I feel is the power that I know comes from God through my Savior, Jesus Christ. :)

And He can reform everyone, even me, irregardless of what YOU have to say.

And yes I still love you anyway.

[StrawberryFields]

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There are none as blind as those who will not see.

Except for someone with their eyes poked out, but I think Ray's posting with both eyes in place.

Ray, one sign of a mature communicator, an effective one, is that they realize it's not what they say that's important, but what others hear. When they say something that produces confusion or anger in their listeners, they adapt their delivery for no reason other than to improve understanding.

Changing how you post doesn't mean your old posts were stupid or wrong or anything else. It means you're mature and skillful and fluid in how you express your ideas with an eye to furthering mutual understanding.

Try turning this:

"Only God can reveal truth and He's told me that the LDS Church is the correct Church and if you ask God He can tell you too."

into:

"I believe the LDS Church is the correct Church. I asked God and feel that He told me it's correct. It's brought me alot of joy knowing this, and I hope others can receive that joy too by gaining their own witness."

Subtle, but it makes all the difference.

Who has said and who keeps saying I keep saying the same old thing… without changing and improving my words?

Or who has seen me keep saying the same old thing without choosing to use some other words?

Or who here thinks I am only saying and that all I have ever said is…

"Only God can reveal truth and He's told me that the LDS Church is the correct Church and if you ask God He can tell you too."

…without adding a nuance here, and another nuance there, to change the way I say what I say… to help other people understand what I know… and how I feel… to try to avoid confusion… and let people know I’m not attacking them… for no other reason than to improve understanding while I continue to try to share what I know???

Huh??? Who cannot see me now???

Who cannot see what they truly could see if they stopped criticizing ME???

Does anyone need me to share how I know we could all have our eyes opened up???

Does anyone not know that I truly can know how to know I really know what is true???

I am not attacking you now. I have never attacked anyone here. I share what I know about how we can know by learning ALL that we know from only God.

And if none of y’all now want to learn anything from ME…

…that’s good. I think we are making some progress. Now if we can all learn that we should only learn from God and those who we know He has inspired, then all of us will learn what I already know about how we should learn from only God. :)

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

If someone's intent is to just be right at all costs I think they have missed the boat completely.

My intent is to love everyone no matter what they believe and I know that intent is just right. And ONE of the ways that I show my love to everyone is by teaching what I know to be right. And if people disagree and have a problem with me because I share what I know to be right, then that is their problem and I’ll still love them anyway, while I continue to try to teach them what is right. :)

Ray, I love ya but you are incorrigible,

Incorrigible = habitual, persistent, confirmed, dyed-in-the-wool, incurable, hopeless., and irredeemable

Nope.

in·cor·ri·gi·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-kôr-j-bl, -kr-)

adj.

Incapable of being corrected or reformed: an incorrigible criminal.

Firmly rooted; ineradicable: incorrigible faults.

Difficult or impossible to control or manage: an incorrigible, spoiled child.

n.

One that cannot be corrected or reformed.

As found from dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=incorrigible

Still love ya.

Sorry if I burst your bubble, Strawberry, but I can be corrected when I know I am wrong.

And the "one" who helps me know when I'm wrong and when I'm right is nobody other than God.

And the power that I feel is the power that I know comes from God through my Savior, Jesus Christ. :)

And He can reform everyone, even me, irregardless of what YOU have to say.

And yes I still love you anyway.

LOL Thanks for helping me to Laugh Out Loud.

You know Ray we can get answers to prayers from messengers from our Father in Heaven. These messengers are people in tune with the spirit who are prompted to say something we need to hear. One needs to listen, listen, and listen to hear what Father might want them to know. :)

Still love ya.

[prisonchaplain]

Ray, to get to the bottom-line, and see if I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that we should not learn from one another, and especially from God's servants (be they prophets, apostles, or simply his people)? Of course, hearing directly from God is the most powerful and perfect way, but God mostly seems to use others to teach me--and of course those he anointed to compile his Scriptures.

[Ray]

Sometimes it can help to get "information" from people other than God, if you're willing to accept what others tell you, but to know who speaks the truth I think we all should ask only God, otherwise we may find out we do not know the truth.

Would you believe someone if they said God told them something without asking God to know if it was true?

How else can you know if people tell you what is true without asking God to give you His assurance?

And btw, you can give your answer to God. I am really not that interested in what you believe. In the end it will be between only you and God anyway. :)

[Ray]

Boink.

Last post.

Goodbye everyone.

And yes I know I have said that before already. (a long goodbye) :)

[Dr T]

What does that mean Ray? 4000 is your limit? Too much harassment/conflict? Are you going to stop posting?

[StrawberryFields]

And btw, you can give your answer to God. I am really not that interested in what you believe. In the end it will be between only you and God anyway. :)

So, if you are not interest in what others believe do you only come here to say the same thing over and over again and not tp share and learn?

Do you accept the words of the prophets to be the word (truths) of God? Maybe you believe that you are the prophet we should be listening too?

BTW, still love ya Ray.

[c1986panther]

Do you accept the words of the prophets to be the word (truths) of God? Maybe you believe that you are the prophet we should be listening too?

I think that is what Ray has been trying to tell you guys. You can't know for yourself if someone knows truth and speaks truth IF you do not ASK the one who knows! Read Alma 32 it talks about faith... plus every 6 months we are to sustain the leaders of the church in their callings durring General Conference.... I can't say that I do sustain them unless I pray to my father and get confirmation from on high from the one who knows all things if they truly are his servants and are placed there because he called them to those positions.

[sgallan]

Hey Ray -

It's just constructive criticism. You are still a terrific poster, and person. And I say this even though we don't agree on a heck of a lot. :)