Guest mysticmorini Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I heard a Stake President talking about a young man who had become inactive. Apparently the young man had some issues with the Law of Chastity and had been through a disciplinary council. He was working through his issues and was almost ready to have another council to end his discipline (not sure what it was). Then, a young women in the stake told this young man "I was told to stay away from you" after that almost a year has passed without the SP being able to get a hold of this young man or him going to church. It also turns out the Young woman’s Uncle was on the High council. Who is at fault for the loss of this young man? (I know this sounds familiar to another post in the advise section, but to my understanding this is a separate occurrence and a different person.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Why do you want to assign fault to someone? Why did it not occur to someone that maybe her parents told her to stay away from him? What's the purpose of this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Why do you wish to place blame on anyone besides the young man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas1992 Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 In my humble opinion I think the young man is responsible for his inactivity. I went through a divorce and my ex spread all kinds of rumors about me. I was avoided by some people but I kept going to church because I wanted to. The young lady telling him that she was told to stay away from him is a different issue. Again in my humble opinion I would think that the person who told her to stay away was looking out for her best interests and may not have said it out of meanness. All I can say is that I am soooo glad that I am not the one who has to judge anyone...including these people. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I don't think you can place fault or blame on any one person. In the end yes the YM is responsible for himself. However, I do think ppl who act irresponsibly will be held accountable for their choices. If my parents asked me to stay away from someone they also taught me enough manners to not walk up to them and say it. Words are powerful and we will be held accountable if we use them carelessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mysticmorini Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Why do you want to assign fault to someone?Why did it not occur to someone that maybe her parents told her to stay away from him?What's the purpose of this thread?Didn't anyone ever tell you your not supposed to answer a question with a question? JK In all seriousness, don't we always assign fault? For example, we are taught that we will be held accountable for our sins, young men who don't serve missions are told that they will be accountable for the people they didn't convert, bishops and SP are said to be accountable if they let an unworthy person perform or receive an ordinance. So my question is who is accountable for this young man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I agree with people here. Could be the uncle told her. Could be her parents did. Could be his chastity issues aren't as private as he thinks(They never are). We should extend a hand of friendship, but make certain he knows that it could very well be nobody's fault but his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mysticmorini Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Why do you wish to place blame on anyone besides the young man? So if I go up to someone who I know smokes and say they are a horrible person and i am to stay away from them, that's that persons fault and not mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I think he was saying the way he reacted to the situation (going inactive) was the young man's responsibility. If you go up to someone that smokes and act that way it's your fault for the words. But now they choose the response. They can laugh and walk away or they could punch you. If they hit you they are responsible for that. No one made the choice to hit but them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 So, in our neighborhood, it's been our kids and the Catholic kids. For years. Picnics, and playing at each other's houses, and sleep overs, and all that. Our two daughters and their umpteen daughters and a few sons. Growing respect for different faiths and beliefs. A little corner of heaven. Then, the new neighbors moved in. 3 young rambunctious boys. A teenage boy. Kids and step-kids, and two girls who aren't related to anybody. No church-goers here. Mom smokes. (Nobody calls her horrible.) All the adults are friendly and getting along with each other, and we all seem to understand and accept each other's boundaries and standards and rules - the kids are just beside themselves with trying to understand the new rules. Tragedy. Melodrama. Hurt feelings. Favoritism. Accusations of snobbery. Nice kids are becoming mean and bossy. Cliques and counter-cliques. One house's girls can't play over at new neighbors, the other house's girls can. The boys can't have sleepovers anywhere. A month of that, and things are settling down now. The bad blood is drying, the scars are healing, the new lines of who is friends and not friends with who are stabalizing. Good experience to learn that some activities and relationships are not allowed, but basic respect and friendship still exists. Everyone grows up a little and matures a little. Sounds like this inactive young man never had such an experience until now, or never grew up or matured from encountering them. It's not really a blame thing. It is, however, an excuse to chose to be offended and go inactive. And that's a pity. LM (I can see my girls' future involving a long list of boys they're not allowed to date, church discipline or no church discipline.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) In all seriousness, don't we always assign fault? For example, we are taught that we will be held accountable for our sins, young men who don't serve missions are told that they will be accountable for the people they didn't convert, bishops and SP are said to be accountable if they let an unworthy person perform or receive an ordinance. So my question is who is accountable for this young man?Assigning fault is silly here. For example, all we're doing is metaphorically adding and docking points to people.Young man gets 3 points for being persistent in the past but is docked 2 points for not being persistent now and getting offended easily.Stake President gets 4 points for still trying after a year.Young woman gets docked 1 point for being impolite.Young woman's uncle gets an arbitrary amount of points by adding up the digits in the hymns, subtracting 7, and dividing by 8.There, do you feel better? Although, I'm sure that's not the answer you wanted, but any answer will be arbitrary like that because we're human. It's easy to see why God doesn't leave the final judgement up to us. Edited September 9, 2011 by LittleWyvern grammar fail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mysticmorini Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 As long as I get 100 points for starting the thread B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mysticmorini Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Just to clarify my understanding is that this young man and woman were Young adults over 18 if that makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mysticmorini Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Who said anything about dating? That may have been the case I don't know. All the same, is it right for someone to tell her to stay away from him because he is working an issue? Its not like he was a rapest or something. Unless the Girl also has chastity issues I cannot see any logical reason why she should be told to stay away from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 so is there the "perfect" crowd who go on missions, do everything right etc. etc. who form a click together...I'm more with the term "perfect" belonging in quotes, and less with the "do everything right". I mean, I understand and appreciate the distinction you're making - but from where I'm standing, it's more like the folks who don't talk about their sins, and the folks who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gopecon Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Mysticmoroni - "In all seriousness, don't we always assign fault? For example, we are taught that we will be held accountable for our sins, young men who don't serve missions are told that they will be accountable for the people they didn't convert, bishops and SP are said to be accountable if they let an unworthy person perform or receive an ordinance. So my question is who is accountable for this young man?" Accountability for this will be on whoever did something wrong. There may be blame to be spread out among several people. First the young man made the decision to let this offense hinder his progression. The young woman could possibly have handled it more delicately. Beyond that its pure speculation - if a church leader with confidential information spilled the beans, he will have to answer for that. Meanspirited gossipers could also be held partially accountable. For what it's worth, you are right that a bishop can be held accountable for allowing someone to unworthily exercise the priesthood - but that does not mean the priesthood holder is necessarily off the hook. The fact that I may be held accountable for not reaching out to people does not mean that they won't likewise be directly accountable for their decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gopecon Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Who said anything about dating? That may have been the case I don't know. All the same, is it right for someone to tell her to stay away from him because he is working an issue? Its not like he was a rapest or something. Unless the Girl also has chastity issues I cannot see any logical reason why she should be told to stay away from him.It's easy to say on an internet forum that we should respect people who are working on repenting - which is true, but we don't know the whole story (or the gossip surrounding it). For her to be told to stay away from him, I imagine that this guy had developed a reputation of some sort that was not based on a one time whoops. He could have put that entirely in his past, but if all I knew were the gossip (and it were fairly recent), I would want my daughters to look elsewhere for male companionship. I doubt that too many parents of girls would disagree. It may not be entirely fair to him, but damaging your reputation can be a consequence of sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 from where I'm standing, it's more like the folks who don't talk about their sins, and the folks who do.So, LM, you believe that everyone is equally sinful, and that the only real difference is that some talk about their sins and others do not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Who said anything about dating? That may have been the case I don't know. All the same, is it right for someone to tell her to stay away from him because he is working an issue? Its not like he was a rapest or something. Unless the Girl also has chastity issues I cannot see any logical reason why she should be told to stay away from him.Yes, it may be right for her to be told that. You do not know what that girl is dealing with--her temptations, her issues, her well-being. You may not agree with it (especially if it's your son we are talking about). But, since you are not this girl's parent, then I don't think we can say that it was completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mysticmorini Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 You may not agree with it (especially if it's your son we are talking about). But, since you are not this girl's parent, then I don't think we can say that it was completely wrong.HA! not even close... never met the guy before but I do feel bad for his situation. There are a lot of variables that could be taken into consideration but you know as much as I do. I'm not sure why it is acceptable to automatically defend the gossiper and condemn the sinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 And who is the sinner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 So if I go up to someone who I know smokes and say they are a horrible person and i am to stay away from them, that's that persons fault and not mine?I gotta say, your leaps of logic and extrapolation are amazing. Your first scenario is nothing like your second one. Care to try again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mysticmorini Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 And who is the sinner?That is the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 That is the questionSo how can you conclude people are automatically condemning the sinner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I heard a Stake President talking about a young man who had become inactive. Apparently the young man had some issues with the Law of Chastity and had been through a disciplinary council. He was working through his issues and was almost ready to have another council to end his discipline (not sure what it was). Then, a young women in the stake told this young man "I was told to stay away from you" after that almost a year has passed without the SP being able to get a hold of this young man or him going to church. It also turns out the Young woman’s Uncle was on the High council. Who is at fault for the loss of this young man?(I know this sounds familiar to another post in the advise section, but to my understanding this is a separate occurrence and a different person.) 1) How do we know that this young man didn't tell someone else and THAT person told someone else... and word got around?2) Just because the young woman's uncle was on the high council make it a convenient fact, but not 'incriminating'.Some of us develop a 'reputation' by the actions we take, the way we talk, and the people we hang out with.I almost hate to mention this, but back in high school, I hung out at a place on campus that was nick-named 'the horny hut'. It was a bunch of us in the band that hung out there and they were my friends. Yes, there was a reputation there, but I didn't care. I hung out there anyway.Now, growing up, I didn't have any problems with anyone else that would require a church disciplinary hearing. But, did I have a reputation? Maybe! Could it be that there were other young women in the ward/stake that were told to 'stay away from me'? Maybe! But I never heard it myself.Sometimes we contribute to our own reputations... and it can take quite a while to change one's reputation.Just another POV to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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