If You Couldn't Be What You Are, What Would Your Next Choice Be?

[prisonchaplain]

Let's cast aside our feelings about how right we are, and how wrong others are, for the moment. What do you find attractive about other faiths? Which one might you move toward, absent your current religious community?

I'll start. The Assemblies of God is decribed as Pentecostal, Evangelical, Fundamental, and Missionary. It's often praised for it's warmth--particularly during singing and corporate prayer times. "We welcome the presence and move of the Holy Spirit!" is a common refrain. So, what if there was no A/G? Well, since this is a starter post, I'll list aspects I like about several other churches:

Presbyterians (I stole my wife from them): Strong religious education and desire to conduct religious work appropriately.

Salvation Army: Willingness to serve "the least of these."

Baptists and Fundamentalists: Unswerving dedication to God's Word, and fervant desire to get it (teaching and practices) right.

LDS: Strong practice of Christian community--loving one another and looking out for each other.

Catholic: By far the largest Christian community, and one of the oldest. Tremendous ability to absorb a variety of worship (from tradition latinists to Charismatic Renewal).

Maybe I'll weigh in later...but there's enough here to get us going.

[BenRaines]

I would be a Hedonist

Ben Raines

[Jason]

I'd definitely be an atheist.

[prisonchaplain]

Ben and Jason--no wrong answers on this type of a string--but could you tell us why? (actually, if Ben does, we may have to move to Open Forum!) :-)

[sgallan]

I'd go from Athiest to one of the eastern meditative type faiths. For example; I admire the heck out of the Dala'i Lama. I'd really like to have some of the love and peace within himself, and towards others, that he has.

[Palerider]

I would become a Catholic.....their meeting schedule works alot better during the NFL season.......and I could sleep in longer on a sunday......hope these reasons work.......

[BenRaines]

Just horsing around PC. Would never go there but I know the mortal man.

Ben Raines

[Lindy]

I think I would be a Christian Jew

[Dr T]

Hedonism is fine (as long as I'm the only one doing it) :)

Dr. T

[karrie91]

I was raised Church Of England so if I hadnt found the LDS church I guess I would still be there.

The reasons why:

*I knew no better at the time

*I tried other religions and something always bothered me, it didnt feel right for me.

*Large family aspect

*Interested in further educating for the purpose of divinity.

[shanstress70]

Presbyterians (I stole my wife from them): Strong religious education and desire to conduct religious work appropriately.

You know of my search for a church to belong to. I REALLY liked the Presbyterian church more than any other I have visited. There was only one thing that I couldn't get past, and that is their belief of predestination. I wish I could get past it because I loved everything else about this church.

If God has already decided who will be saved and there's nothing you can do change that, do you just hope and pray that you are one of the lucky? I can see how some would just not try to live righteously: if they're 'chosen', even if they're 'bad' they are still in; and if they're not 'chosen', no matter how 'good' they are they won't get to Heaven.

Any words of wisdom on that subject, PC? Am I not seeing the whole picture? If anyone can help me understand this better, please do.

It was explained to me once that if you're even searching and trying to do the right thing, you are chosen. But that may just be a pacifist explanation to get me to join that church.

[MJN42]

JW's cause they are very annoying, won't leave you alone, and you can't be saved because the 144,000 or 134,000 ppl to be saved are already spoken for. So it would be for not to try to be good. I guess I like the name of their main book the Dragon book, and they sale there pamphlets.

Almost forgot they look very nice when the prosolite.

[shanstress70]

JW's cause they are very annoying, won't leave you alone, and you can't be saved because the 144,000 or 134,000 ppl to be saved are already spoken for. So it would be for not to try to be good. I guess I like the name of their main book the Dragon book, and they sale there pamphlets.

Almost forgot they look very nice when the prosolite.

You would be JW because they are annoying and you can't be saved?

[boyando]

I think that I would start my own church, if I were not LDS.

Looking at myself, I know that I'm not a humble person, by nature. So it is not a strench for me to say that with out a prophet and all the scriptures that I have, I would try and say what God was saying or even what God would do.

I guess that is why I call myself Allmosthumble (even spelled it wrong), because, like being perfect, I don't think you can be truely humble, in this life, but I think you should try.

[Dr T]

Hi Shan,

You would be JW because they are annoying and you can't be saved?[/quote[

LOL

Hi allmosthumble,

I know that I'm not a humble person, by nature.

I don't think anyone is 100% humble by nature. :) I appreciate your move in that direction though!

[MBASS]

I dont think I'd be anything! Id just be me!

[cwirth]

I know that if it weren't for my church, I'd be a Catholic, because my parents were Catholics before they converted.

I don't know much about other churches. The Baptists are all really nice and friendly, and they have those big Christian concerts, and those seem pretty exciting. Then I like the Catholic church because of it's history and the vastness and grandness of the churches. The Anglican church for the same reason. Hinduism is cool because it's part of the Indian culture, and they have neat traditions. They also don't eat meat. I eat meat, but if I were forced not to I wouldn't mind. It's kind of like not drinking anything with caffeine, not smokingm and not drinking. I've known it my whole life, never had a problem with it, and if it's good for my health, why not?

[prisonchaplain]

There was only one thing that I couldn't get past, and that is their belief of predestination. I wish I could get past it because I loved everything else about this church.

If God has already decided who will be saved and there's nothing you can do change that, do you just hope and pray that you are one of the lucky? I can see how some would just not try to live righteously: if they're 'chosen', even if they're 'bad' they are still in; and if they're not 'chosen', no matter how 'good' they are they won't get to Heaven.

Any words of wisdom on that subject, PC?

I'll start by saying that my fellowship does not agree with predestination. There is an appeal to it though. Their emphasis is on the sovereignty of God. God is the Creator, and He controls all that has been, all that is, and all that will be. Thus, it is He who determines who will be saved.

Some philosophers argue that this is the only "logical" view, since, if God knows what will happen, and his knowledge is perfect, then, do we REALLY have any choice?

As for who does get saved--it's God's choice. If you embrace God's love, it does not mean you were worthy, had free agency and chose right, or that you somehow did good by chosing God. Rather, it means that you get to experience God's mercy.

Not fair? They would argue that all deserve to be damned, so the fact that God saves any is a mercy to be grateful for.

[shanstress70]

I'll start by saying that my fellowship does not agree with predestination. There is an appeal to it though. Their emphasis is on the sovereignty of God. God is the Creator, and He controls all that has been, all that is, and all that will be. Thus, it is He who determines who will be saved.

Some philosophers argue that this is the only "logical" view, since, if God knows what will happen, and his knowledge is perfect, then, do we REALLY have any choice?

As for who does get saved--it's God's choice. If you embrace God's love, it does not mean you were worthy, had free agency and chose right, or that you somehow did good by chosing God. Rather, it means that you get to experience God's mercy.

Not fair? They would argue that all deserve to be damned, so the fact that God saves any is a mercy to be grateful for.

Thanks for the info. Just doesn't sit right with me. So they're just basically holding their breath hoping that they are saved? They really don't believe it has anything to do with our actions or what's in our hearts? So basically a louse who steals, cheats, and does nothing to help society or his family would have the same chances of going to Heaven as anyone else? How is that OK with Presbyterians?

[Dr T]

Hi Shan,

You have a misunderstanding on this issue.

So they're just basically holding their breath hoping that they are saved?

That is not it at all. God, being soveriegn runs the show. Say He desires to have everyone saved, "That no one should perish" but ultimately, the person makes the choice, decision to recognize his/her fallen nature and the need for salvation. It is not, people just go through life "messing up" and then when it is over, God just says, "You're saved, you're not."

Dr. T

[prisonchaplain]

Thanks for the info. Just doesn't sit right with me. So they're just basically holding their breath hoping that they are saved?

Actually, if they have a desire to be saved, then they would likely argue that God had indeed chosen them. After all, the believe in irresistable grace--those that are chosen cannot help but be drawn to God's mercy and love.

They really don't believe it has anything to do with our actions or what's in our hearts? So basically a louse who steals, cheats, and does nothing to help society or his family would have the same chances of going to Heaven as anyone else? How is that OK with Presbyterians?

Just because someone says they are chosen does not mean that they are. They would strive to do good and be good as evidence that they are indeed chosen. In a sense, the pressure to be righteous might be even greater, because UNrighteousness might indicate that one was NOT chosen.

[Dr T]

Hi MBASS,

You said,

I dont think I'd be anything! Id just be me!

You are something! Many things in fact so don't say that you wouldn't be anything=me. :)

[EricM]

I'd probably seek God's guidance and join whatever church he leads me to... it's how the LDS church started, after all.

[rosie321]

I could never join another church other than LDS. Too many brain cells required in keeping up with each different religions guidelines. Each church tends to highlight a different aspect of God. I'd hate to limit myself unnecessarily.

I would rather associate with and serve in ones that are service oriented in the community and that motivate people to lead better lifes. That being said I would probably tend to associate with the Salvation Army, go back to the one I grew up in, or one like it that is very service oriented. I would get wrapped up in the service area , personally developing and encouraging people to be better than where they are at.. forget all the other gunk.

I don't understand the predestination and choosing..

I can understand how chosen might work from an LDS perspective but I just don't understand how it works from a christian. In LDS there was the premortal existance that might gear a person a certain way in this life. But from the christian, please forgive me if I don't say it in an appropriate way, predestination seems like an act of a cold heartless God. Let me explain. You have this perfect, almighty God who creates man and puts him on the earth. Then Satan-whereever he came from (btw someone please answer in the Christian world where did he come from in God's perfect creation?) , comes along and then man falls away. Then only a chosen portion are allowed to return to God. The unchosen really don't have much of a chance because they are dealing with the cards they are dealt. They were created that way.

In the LDS belief system people chose to come to earth understanding they would be tested. They knew that there would be some that would be more stalwart then others. Its easy to understand where people would then find their placements here on earth. The chosen would have at least "earned" their placement. Its not just God saying I messed up so now you pay. Thats the way it seems from the outside looking in. It seems like God is rather cold and heartless. He, Almighty God, couldn't even fix the "mess" he made

Just some thoughts I have. No offense intended.

[prisonchaplain]

I don't understand the predestination and choosing..

But from the christian, please forgive me if I don't say it in an appropriate way, predestination seems like an act of a cold heartless God.

Short answer: God is God, and his ways are perfect. So, those who embrace predestination would simply say that God, by definition, does what is right and perfect. That some are saved is the great miracle--that ONLY some are damned is a sign of his mercy.

Cold and heartless you say? And yes, many, including my own church, might agree. But the predestinationists would say, no, God is perfect and sovereign. By definition, he is not cold and heartless. Those who are damned needed to be damned.

So, why evil? Many theories are proferred, but predestinationists would, at the simplest level say, "We believe God only does and allows what He, in his perfection, sees must needs be.

Again, I don't agree--but do you see the beauty of this total faith in an all-powerful, perfect God? They really do trust him--even with "the stuff."

In the LDS belief system people chose to come to earth understanding they would be tested. They knew that there would be some that would be more stalwart then others. Its easy to understand where people would then find their placements here on earth. The chosen would have at least "earned" their placement. Its not just God saying I messed up so now you pay. Thats the way it seems from the outside looking in. It seems like God is rather cold and heartless. He, Almighty God, couldn't even fix the "mess" he made

Just some thoughts I have. No offense intended.

Although I'm not LDS, I do indeed find some LDS doctrines appealing. And, in this "what's your 2nd choice" game, such questions become important.

In reality though, none of us would go for our 2nd choice. Because, in the end, we all want a religion that is not only nice and pleasing--but which offers ultimate truth.