The members around me are making me lose faith..?

[briesibley]

Recently I decided to bring two close friends to a meeting with my missionaries.

They were really nice, easy to befriend, and enjoyed teaching them(only about two quick lessons)

They finally left, but were replaced by new, eager boys who invited them to be baptized.. on the first lesson.

I was so embarrassed. I usually love my missionaries, but lately i've been getting the worst, and it really is hurting my faith in the people of my church. I still love the church itself, sacrament, and reading the bible and the book of Mormon, but ever since these missionaries came, i've been finding flaws i don't like about the people in the church.

Ive come close to telling the new missionaries that confronting people about baptism within the first lesson isn't something to be done! But I never have the nerve to do it.

Then one day in seminary the teacher mentioned how we need to treat the missionaries with respect. She said it is very disrespectful how some church members treat them like kids, as they are the closest to God right now. I agree that we treat them with respect, but only because they are people, and I treat everyone with respect. But I disagree that we need to treat them with respect because they are missionaries.. Not all the missionaries are true to God. I've found some are just probably just there to satisfy there parents. Some just preach what the training center(?) told them, and not from their hearts. And i get the impression that some just want to baptize as many people as they can.

I've also said to myself that i want to be a missionary myself. i am a girl. I've never told anyone outside of my family that. I thought most other girls wanted too to. Why not? It's a wonderful experience. Again, my seminary teacher offended me. When she addressed the boys about being a missionary, she never once mentioned if one of the girls wanted too. And when the topic has been brought up before, none of the girls want to. They shove it off as a guy thing. I feel like it is looked down on in the church. Like a girl going on a mission would be considered a manly. Which i know isn't true, as i've seen extremely pretty girls on missions before.

I know not all people in the church are like this, some are actually amazing people that I have love for. But the majority are. Some members that i have met are just down right creepy. The gospel, sacrament, and feeling i've got from the church is amazing. And please don't angry at me when I say.. but some of the time I actually do get the bad feeling of a cult from some of the people.

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edit: I'm not sure if continuing a thread after so long is allowed at this site. Please let me know if so! If not, I'm going to try my best to get back to everybody with an honest reply.

Also, here's a general update. I still feel the same about the church. I went to seminary for about the first semester of school, but was getting too behind in my AP class, wasn't actually learning much in the class, and my mom had noticed a significant amount of money being used on the gas.

My parents are divorced, but strangely found the church at about the same time after the separation. My mom left the church after a year.

The reasons were/are:

1. She didn't get along or have anything in common with the Relief Society women. Apparently, her words, the women were very nosy and the majority of the meetings after sacrament were just talking about other people's problems. The meetings were never about actually helping the family/person, just talking. My mom said their "it's okay" reason was that at the end they always asked every woman to pray for this family/person. In my opinion, tossing out someone's personal information like that just isn't right. If their reasoning was for prays, they should just be general and say, "The _____ are going through hardships. Please keep them in your prayers."

2. My mom is a hardworking lady with a poor job. She had faith in the church, she really did. But she knew off the bat that she wouldn't be able to pay tithing. I could tell she felt guilty about this, but it just couldn't be done.That being said, the bishop asked her later why she wasn't paying tithing. My mom explained our situation. He still talked her in to paying. She did. For about six months. Though I didn't know why, I could absolutely tell that we were tight on money. If she would had continued the house would had most definitely been lost. We're still paying off the house, btw. She had told the bishop this, he just insisted she kept paying. I've heard of multiple miracle stories on tithing, but my mom has multiple kids. That'd be incredibly irresponsible to just go with it and risk our house. For a bit more background information, our bishop is very well off. I'm not sure he actually understands the position a single mother with no higher education is.

3. You know how strong the church is with multiple church activities/meetings in one week? Well, if you didn't read this in the paragraph above, here you go again.

My mom has a tight work schedule. She has 4 coworkers that always depend on her for doing their work or taking their shifts. Though it is stressful, she has learned to deal with it, has great health care, and can easily get hours to work(money$$). The Relief Society women were always picking at her if she wasn't able to get to a meeting. btw, they had about three meetings a week... In defense, my mom told them about her tight job. Then they proceeded to tell her what an awful job and tried to convince her to quit. Again, this coming from multiple house wives and ones with well off jobs.

I apologize for the detailed stories, but I think that to really understand the details are important.

Now here's where I was going with all this!

Therefore, my mom left the church. Like mother like daughter, I was beginning to lean from the church. My dad is still active, and has strong faith.

Whenever we visit(about once a week at least), I can tell how the church is improving his life. Because of this, I always try to give the church another chance.

then it just all blows. I try my best not to have negative thoughts. I go in thinking positive. But things tend to go downhill not long after.

Edited April 5, 2012 by briesibley
I had found and posted on this site on an emotional night. Completely forgot about it after that..

[Dravin]

I was so embarrassed. I usually love my missionaries, but lately i've been getting the worst, and it really is hurting my faith in the people of my church. I still love the church itself, sacrament, and reading the bible and the book of Mormon, but ever since these missionaries came, i've been finding flaws i don't like about the people in the church.

You will find flaws in everyone and if you dangerously connect your testimony of the Church to an absence of flaws in others you are potentially en route to a rocky road. Not that we need pretend people are perfect, for they are not, be we need to understand the Church is full of flawed people, including you.

Consider the examples you give, some over eager (possibly) missionaries, a seminary teacher teaching that missionaries are set apart and dedicated to their calling and that we should treat them with respect for who they represent in an official capacity at this time, and not equally stressing the opportunity (as opposed to the expectation that every worthy young man serve a mission) and you are ready to call out the Church for elements of a cult?

Ive come close to telling the new missionaries that confronting people about baptism within the first lesson isn't something to be done! But I never have the nerve to do it.

While I'm inclined to agree that some missionaries can be overly eager I wouldn't presume to simply state it's something not to be done. It's something to be done by the direction of the Spirit, there are people who respond positively to such invitations, some even accept them on the spot.

But I disagree that we need to treat them with respect because they are missionaries.

You are quite right that we need to treat everyone with respect. But how we treat them (missionaries) with respect is different then how we treat your random 20 year old with respect. They are set apart and represent the Lord (some better than others) some forget that and treat them like 16 year olds, their buddies, or 'one of the guys/girls' or their children and it makes their calling more difficult.

I've also said to myself that i want to be a missionary myself. i am a girl. I've never told anyone outside of my family that. I thought most other girls wanted too to. Why not? It's a wonderful experience. Again, my seminary teacher offended me. When she addressed the boys about being a missionary, she never once mentioned if one of the girls wanted too. And when the topic has been brought up before, none of the girls want to. They shove it off as a guy thing. I feel like it is looked down on in the church. Like a girl going on a mission would be considered a manly. Which i know isn't true, as i've seen extremely pretty girls on missions before.

Women can and do serve wonderful fulfilling missions and touch a great many people and bring them to the gospel (or simply touch them for the better). The thing is the serving of a full time mission is seen as a priesthood responsibly for men and a rewarding option for women. It's not that serving a mission makes onn unwomanly, my wife served a mission.

https://lds.org/youth/video/a-priesthood-duty?lang=eng

Oh and about being offended, I highly doubt your teacher's purpose was the marginalize your desires or otherwise offend you. You may want to consider this amazing talk about being offended by Elder Bednar: And Nothing Shall Offend Them - general-conference Which I think also has relevance to your post in general as you appear to be taking offense over the flaws you are perceiving.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Dravin

[skippy740]

I think your eyes are being opened... and now you have choices on how to respond to what you are seeing.

You can either:

- fall away from the church and the gospel because no one is perfect...

or

- you can accept that the church has many kinds of people and that you are ready to learn forgiveness, tolerance and love...

It's your choice.

They finally left, but were replaced by new, eager boys who invited them to be baptized.. on the first lesson.

On my mission (don't you love that phrase?)... I invited everyone to baptism during the first lesson.

Why? Because this is the direction that the lessons lead toward. This is the result of learning that these things are true - faith, repentance, baptism and the gift of the holy ghost.

The Challenging and Testifying Missionary

The above link is the talk by Elder Alvin R. Dyer - the Challenging and Testifying missionary. I read this every week on my mission. I think it'll help you understand missionary work better.

Read 3 Nephi 11. The Savior didn't waste any time in talking about baptism. Why should we be any different as His representatives as missionaries? It's important that everyone knows why you're there to teach them.

I was so embarrassed. I usually love my missionaries, but lately i've been getting the worst, and it really is hurting my faith in the people of my church. I still love the church itself, sacrament, and reading the bible and the book of Mormon, but ever since these missionaries came, i've been finding flaws i don't like about the people in the church.

Wait till your older and see even MORE flaws! (I guarantee that you're finding flaws and faults in my response to your post... right? Probably thinking that I'm being judgmental and critical, right?)

But wait! There's more!

Ive come close to telling the new missionaries that confronting people about baptism within the first lesson isn't something to be done! But I never have the nerve to do it.

That's probably because you have never been called and set apart as a missionary... and haven't been trained nor know how to do the job.

Then one day in seminary the teacher mentioned how we need to treat the missionaries with respect. She said it is very disrespectful how some church members treat them like kids, as they are the closest to God right now.

I'm not sure I agree with that last line... but as you said, everyone should be treated with respect. Different missionaries are on different spiritual planes as they serve.

I agree that we treat them with respect, but only because they are people, and I treat everyone with respect. But I disagree that we need to treat them with respect because they are missionaries.. Not all the missionaries are true to God. I've found some are just probably just there to satisfy there parents. Some just preach what the training center(?) told them, and not from their hearts. And i get the impression that some just want to baptize as many people as they can.

But they're there! They are serving the Lord, right? You became uncomfortable and now you're questioning motives and becoming critical of who they are and how they teach.

I've also said to myself that i want to be a missionary myself.

Want to show them how it's done?

i am a girl. I've never told anyone outside of my family that. I thought most other girls wanted too to. Why not? It's a wonderful experience. Again, my seminary teacher offended me. When she addressed the boys about being a missionary, she never once mentioned if one of the girls wanted too. And when the topic has been brought up before, none of the girls want to. They shove it off as a guy thing. I feel like it is looked down on in the church. Like a girl going on a mission would be considered a manly. Which i know isn't true, as i've seen extremely pretty girls on missions before.

Yeah... at Temple Square. (Sorry, that was uncalled for.) But yes, sisters are a valuable asset to any mission in the world. I served with many on my mission. (There's that phrase again.)

I know not all people in the church are like this, some are actually amazing people that I have love for. But the majority are. Some members that i have met are just down right creepy. The gospel, sacrament, and feeling i've got from the church is amazing. And please don't angry at me when I say.. but some of the time I actually do get the bad feeling of a cult from some of the people.

Let me guess... some members make you feel like they're looking AT you objectively instead of with spiritual love? (Don't know how else to really phrase it.)

Wait till you're on your mission and you hear teachers teaching false doctrines in the church... something as basic as "God is a Spirit". (Yes, I heard this one... tried to correct it... it was re-emphasized... and not even the high counselor in the room tried to correct it either.)

This is where you need to make a choice. You are maturing in your view of the members of the church. You are seeing that not everyone is perfect.

The question is: What are you going to do about it?

[applepansy]

Dravin has put my thoughts in better words than I could have.

I will only add: Maybe its time to turn your thoughts to the beam in your eye, instead of the mote in others. I have found that when I focus my thoughts on improving my imperfections instead of looking for the imperfections in others I draw closer to the spirit and my life is happier. Dwelling on the negatives we find in those around us doesn't bring us happiness.

[LeKook]

Ive come close to telling the new missionaries that confronting people about baptism within the first lesson isn't something to be done! But I never have the nerve to do it.

I was asked during my first visit from the missionaries if I would follow Christ's lead and be baptized. I was offended.

But I did eventually get baptized, and realized that in asking this question on the first visit - even if the missionaries didn't intend it to go this way - they were explaining through that question why they were really teaching me in the first place. They could have gone through every lesson without asking me about whether I wanted to be baptized, and when it was all done, I could have walked away never knowing that what the Christ wanted from me was a real commitment of my life in exchange for what he did for me.

Yeah, I got that.

[LeKook]

One more observation if I may. I just saw the title of your post when I was going through the replies here, it reads like this:

:unhappy: The members around me are making me lose faith..?

Isn't the Spirit of God more powerful than anything other people can do or say?

The second I incline myself to lose faith because of what other people do or say, I know all hope is lost, because it means I hadn't put my faith in the right person to begin with!

Just sayin'.

[andypg]

I joined a Catholic forum online about a year ago. After about a week on there, the forum made me start doubting my Catholic faith because they were "If you don't do XYZ, you're not a TRUE Catholic, so go become a Protestant." It made me feel horrible. Then there were times where I learned of the transgressions of my priest. But then I remembered other good faithful priests and that my faith isn't shouldn't depend on what others think or the actions of one priest.

If you have a testimony, keep the faith.

Though in all honesty, if I met with missionaries for the first time and they asked me to be baptized the first meeting, I'd be turned off.

[LeKook]

Though in all honesty, if I met with missionaries for the first time and they asked me to be baptized the first meeting, I'd be turned off.

I'd want every missionary to ask on the first visit, whether it offends or not. Since, after all, we don't know whether or not the person being visited will ever have another opportunity to be asked. :) The whole purpose of missionary work is to bring the gospel to the people and bring them to Christ, after all. Why miss an opportunity, maybe the person who is being visited is already ready and simply wants to be asked?

[andypg]

I'd want every missionary to ask on the first visit, whether it offends or not. Since, after all, we don't know whether or not the person being visited will ever have another opportunity to be asked. :) The whole purpose of missionary work is to bring the gospel to the people and bring them to Christ, after all. Why miss an opportunity, maybe the person who is being visited is already ready and simply wants to be asked?

My thing is, if I'm a Catholic and never heard of Joseph Smith or of the Restoration, I'd want to know a bit about it at first before being asked to be baptized, which is a big commitment. I think it's steps. First teach me what the Church teaches, then ask me to be baptized.

[LeKook]

My thing is, if I'm a Catholic and never heard of Joseph Smith or of the Restoration, I'd want to know a bit about it at first before being asked to be baptized, which is a big commitment. I think it's steps. First teach me what the Church teaches, then ask me to be baptized.

I totally understand why you'd feel that way. :) I'm not sure how missionaries in the LDS church are trained to do their work, like if they're told to find out something about the person they're visiting before they start the lessons and then pray and ask for guidance for the individual. I was in the Catholic church till I was about 10 years old, and then my father left the church and so did the rest of the family as a result. And prior to meeting the missionaries in July or thereabouts, I had been a Jehovah's Witness for about 10 years and had already left that. So my point is I was more ready to be challenged by the baptism question than perhaps you would be in the same teaching circumstances with the missionaries.

[Dravin]

My thing is, if I'm a Catholic and never heard of Joseph Smith or of the Restoration, I'd want to know a bit about it at first before being asked to be baptized, which is a big commitment. I think it's steps. First teach me what the Church teaches, then ask me to be baptized.

Generally the question is phrased as a conditional such as:

"When you come to know/receive a testimony that these things are true will you be baptized?"

[LeKook]

Generally the question is phrased as a conditional such as:

"When you come to know/receive a testimony that these things are true will you be baptized?"

When I was asked the first time (and second, and third, etc.) I wasn't asked in this way. It wasn't conditional. But I had solid witness from the Holy Spirit that whatever was going to be taught to me was going to be true, LOL! Not sure if my situation is the norm or what. I just knew from the first time lessons were given that this was the truth and never questioned it from that point on.

[Dravin]

When I was asked the first time (and second, and third, etc.) I wasn't asked in this way. It wasn't conditional. But I had solid witness from the Holy Spirit that whatever was going to be taught to me was going to be true, LOL! Not sure if my situation is the norm or what. I just knew from the first time lessons were given that this was the truth and never questioned it from that point on.

I don't think your experience is the norm (for a couple reasons), but it's not like I have a systematic study on the subject, just my experiences as a missionary.

[LeKook]

I don't think your experience is the norm (for a couple reasons), but it's not like I have a systematic study on the subject, just my experiences as a missionary.

Yeah I don't know if information like this gets saved somewhere to study effectiveness of missionary work, LOL!!! I know with the JWs a lot of this sort of info was tracked, not sure with LDS church though. I'd go with your observations as a missionary any day. :)

[Suzie]

This reminds me of an experience I had when I was teenager. The missionaries asked me to meet an investigator for the first time (she was the niece of a long time member). As I went to her house and we talked a little, the missionaries arrived. They shared the lesson and I could well see in her eyes and face expression that she was feeling overwhelmed about all the information she was receiving. Then one of the missionaries invited her to be baptized (and no, not in the way Dravin explained, as a matter of fact several times after that I have personally observed missionaries asking investigators to be baptized in the first lesson). Well, she said she cannot answer that right now. As one of the missionaries was talking to her, the other kind of whispered to me to go ahead and encourage her to be baptized. I politely declined and what I did was to tell this young lady to take whatever time she needs because baptism is a very important decision and one that should not be taken lightly. I closed with my testimony and offer to answer whatever questions she may have afterwards.

When we left, the missionaries were upset with me and one of them directly asked me if I wanted them to lose an investigator. I tried to explain to them but I don't think they got it.

The point is...they're free to ask the question if they wish to do so. I refused to get involved because I did not think it was the appropriate action. Most missionaries mean well and they work very hard, sometimes some of them just get carried away a little by the excitement of the work.

Some members that i have met are just down right creepy. The gospel, sacrament, and feeling i've got from the church is amazing. And please don't angry at me when I say.. but some of the time I actually do get the bad feeling of a cult from some of the people

Creepy people are everywhere, specially in religion. However, do not take their personal views or opinions as doctrinal, just take them as their own interpretation of things.

[pam]

I guess I'm strange. When I hear people criticize the church or find fault with others and use that as an excuse to question their own testimony..it only strengthens mine.

[MorningStar]

No one else can make you lose your faith. You are responsible for your relationship with God and we are all learning. We all make mistakes. Don't worry about what other people think. If you want to go on a mission, go for it! The church encourages it. If all offended people left the church, there wouldn't be any members left.

[I_Can_See]

My thing is, if I'm a Catholic and never heard of Joseph Smith or of the Restoration, I'd want to know a bit about it at first before being asked to be baptized, which is a big commitment. I think it's steps. First teach me what the Church teaches, then ask me to be baptized.

How the program is suppose to work, if done right, is the missionaries are to help you feel and recognize the Spirit. It is the Spirit above all that is the influencing factor in your conversion. It is God's Spirit conversing directly with your spirit. If you feel the Spirit and reject it then it doesn't matter what the message is. And if you don't feel the Spirit, then there won't be a true conversion and then again the message doesn't matter much. Only with a an acceptance of the Spirit does the message the missionaries bring matter. So if you meet the missionaries the first time and they help you feel and recognize the Spirit and if it is something that you have been desiring, whether you new it or not, then you will want to do what Christ asked you to do. Remember it is Christ's message and Christ that is asking, the missionaries are just representing him.

Plus, I don't know if anyone remembers but the the question to commit to baptism was a part of the first discussion and was require for missionaries to ask. A lot don't ask because they are afraid to offend. And some are pushy. Usually it is the newer missionaries that are pushy.

Edited October 17, 2011 by I_Can_See
have more to say

[JudoMinja]

Recognizing that other people aren't perfect is part of growing up. I think that as little kids, we tend to form this fantasy image in which all adults know everything and do everything they are supposed to do and are the "perfect" example of whatever they are supposed to be. I know when I was growing up, I tended to think my parents were the "perfect" parents, my church leaders were "perfect" leaders, my school teachers were "perfect" teachers, etc. Then I started having experiences that made me realize they are not so perfect.

If we look at their imperfections with an all-or-nothing attitude, it can be very detrimental. For instance: "Since my parents did blank, then they aren't really good parents at all. They are horrible parents, because now I know they aren't perfect." or "Since my teacher was wrong about blank, then (s)he is a horrible teacher and must be wrong about everything, because now I know (s)he isn't perfect." or "Because my bishop did/said blank, then he is a horrible bishop because that was wrong, and now I know he isn't perfect." Do you see the problem?

If we turn that attitude on everyone, even ourselves, we will see a terrible awful world with no one to trust and nothing to believe in, because everyone makes mistakes and is imperfect. Being imperfect does not mean that everything is wrong or terrible. It just means that people make mistakes. It means that people aren't perfect. This becomes a much more obvious problem in relation to matters of faith and the gospel, because this is something central to our very being. When someone we trust goes against what we believe to be right, that can absolutely ruin our trust and faith if we don't understand how to draw the line and accept their flaws as just part of human nature. If we think that the gospel can only be true if those who believe in the gospel are perfect then we are going to be sorely disappointed.

Finding flaws does not mean that there is no truth or no goodness. It just means that there are flaws. We need to be able to accept them and move on. There is something else though too, that I think may be adding to your struggle.

Sharing our faith with our friends puts us in a very vulnerable position. What if they don't believe what we believe? We approach it carefully, even tediously, because we want them to accept something that is so very important to us. Then someone else does or says something that we think might jeopordize this investigation. It hurts. Why? It is not necessarily because they did something wrong- they just did not treat your friend with the same tedious care that you have been. A fear starts to build that what this person said or did will cause your friend to become offended and not accept the gospel. Then you wonder- if my friend did not accept it, is it really true?

This is a sign that your faith is not built on as strong of a foundation as it needs to be. Yes, we love the gospel. It is very important to us. It is part of who we are. We love it and embrace it, and want all our friends and loved ones to do the same. But if we really believe it is true, really trust that it is right, really know deep down then it won't matter if others accept it. We won't treat the formation of a testimony like something fragile that can be burst by the tiniest of misdoings. If the possibility of our friends accepting the gospel is so fragile that we have to tread on eggshells to share it with them, then they probably just aren't ready for it.

I went through an experience similar to yours. I had a friend with whom I wanted to share the gospel. Her life was a struggle and she'd been through a lot of pain. I knew that the gospel could help her find happiness, but I also knew that she was quick to feel offended and wanted to tread slowly. I shared some scriptures with her at school that I thought would be helpful- gave her some uplifting "MormonAds" and invited her to come to the Young Women activities. She was enjoying it and slowly learning about the gospel, but the Young Women leader saw a potential problem. See, my friend was getting a couple of the other girls to leave the activities and go do something else in the gym. She was very obvious about her sexual orientation not being the norm, and I know my YW leader was a bit prejudiced and judgmental, but mostly she was concerned that her YW were being led astray. She convinced the bishop to talk to her about her dress and appearance and advised her not to come to the activities if she couldn't dress accordingly. Of course, my friend became offended and at that point decided she had no interest in the church.

I was devastated and very hurt. I felt like this leader had ruined my chance to share the gospel with my friend, much as you were offended by the missionaries quick offer of baptism to your friend. The thing is, if your friend is driven away by that eagerness, then your friend probably wasn't really ready for the gospel in the first place. It does not mean the church is not true, does not mean the missionaries did something "wrong". I made the mistake of letting my hurt feelings fester and cause me to build up more and more doubts about the church and the gospel. I ended up going inactive and falling away for a bit because of it, and it all started with this experience because I did not have my testimony built on as strong a foundation as I thought I did.

Now is the time for you to get serious about your own "investigation". Don't let doubts and uncertainties fester. Address them. Study the scriptures with earnest. Pray diligently. Seek out the truth and make sure you REALLY believe it. I have a different friend who I invited to church about the same time as the one who became offended. She also has not yet accepted the gospel, but she has told me she believes it is true and is just not ready to make the commitment. She doesn't want to change her lifestyle. My own testimony is now strong enough that this doesn't bother me. I feel no need to tread carefully or "slowly" feed her little tidbits that might lead her to finally decide to get baptised. It is easy for me to accept that she just isn't ready and then just continue to strive to be an example and a good friend. My faith is not riding on her acceptance. It is built on a "sure foundation" that "will not fall".

[LeKook]

The saying, "I'm perfect, except for when I'm not," comes to mind. LOL!!!

More troubling to me is how many folks I've met in the LDS church who have never read the Book of Mormon...? I just find it really odd. Or who never study it. Or the Bible.

But remember, I'm perfect, except for when I'm not...!

[lizzy16]

I still love the church itself, sacrament, and reading the bible and the book of Mormon, but ever since these missionaries came, i've been finding flaws i don't like about the people in the church.

Ive come close to telling the new missionaries that confronting people about baptism within the first lesson isn't something to be done! But I never have the nerve to do it.

1. I know what you mean about disliking people/finding flaws. I actually went inactive as a beehive because of it. Remember, the church is perfect. The gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect. The people aren't. You can't expect people to be great at everything. Its your responsibility as these peoples friends to tell the missionaries that they're being too jumpy on baptism with your friends. Tell them to teach but wait for baptism. However, remember that most missionaries try to teach with the spirit. They could know things you don't.

Then one day in seminary the teacher mentioned how we need to treat the missionaries with respect. She said it is very disrespectful how some church members treat them like kids, as they are the closest to God right now. I agree that we treat them with respect, but only because they are people, and I treat everyone with respect. But I disagree that we need to treat them with respect because they are missionaries.. Not all the missionaries are true to God.

I've also said to myself that i want to be a missionary myself. i am a girl. I've never told anyone outside of my family that. feel like it is looked down on in the church.

Right on Sista! I want to go on a mission as well. I'm a freshman at BYU-Idaho right now and I'll have graduated college by the time I can go on a mission. I really believe I could be a wonderful missionary. I've been through some things and had some challenges that I think could really help others if shared in the mission field. I've only talked about it with a few people. The prophets have said if your a sister and want to serve a mission prayerfully consider it and go for it! They back you up :) It's not 'looked down on" it's just not as popular as getting married.

But the majority are. Some members that i have met are just down right creepy. The gospel, sacrament, and feeling i've got from the church is amazing. And please don't angry at me when I say.. but some of the time I actually do get the bad feeling of a cult from some of the people.

I grew up in a home where after church my brother and dad would sit around and analyze every talk, lesson, conversation ect and say things about them. I didn't like it. And yet, i often joined in because I had all these negative feelings about these members in my ward and looked down on them for various reasons. It could have ruined my feelings for church. I love living away from home. Because, instead of my dad talking about how the High Priests activites suck and waste the budget. How he should be in charge to organize the next actvity because obviously the other person isn't doing a good job. I come home from church with my roommates and we talk about our FHE brothers amazing talk and the cute RM who talked about what a testimony really is and how right on his talk was.

Just block out the bad.

Focus on the Good.

Pray for strength in not judging.

[Guest Magen_Avot]

briesibley,

I think you've gotten some good direction in your thread here.

I do understand how it can feel when a missionary snaps the baptism challenge out so soon on a friend. When I went on my mission I was committed to not do that even when others tried to peer pressure me. There was only one time that I did it though. On the first visit, before even teaching a lesson the spirit told me to challenge a 60 year old woman to baptism. After several promptings I began the challenge and my companion about exploded. I followed with something to the effect of 'take your time to think about this important decision as we teach you'. She was baptized and my companion transferred and tracked into her daughter and baptized her also. Go figure!

But like many have said, no one, not even missionaries are faultless. Lord knows that I've wanted to strangle some just a few months ago. It happens, but... respect, or if you will... longsuffering and charity is much better than frustration with faults!! Cultivate patience, it's hard to grow but worth the investment we all deserve to give it and receive it. Without it we can hardly bless the lives of others and that’s what we're all here to do (in part).

As for your testimony, cultivate that too. And again just as others have said, the good soil is not other people, its the Lord and the miracle grow is the spirit. And if your testimony leads you to go on a mission you will be blessed for it. My two daughters are seriously contemplating it right now and I'm glad they are. Don't be discouraged by others short sightedness.

[dahlia]

Asking for a baptism on the first lesson? I think that's a bit much. It just seems that asking so soon, before the person has really had a chance to read and ponder, runs the risk of baptizing someone who won't stay or who doesn't really know what they're doing.

btw - I thought the missionaries had a lot of nerve asking me to read the Book of Mormon.

[LittleWyvern]

*dusts off his Preach My Gospel*

As far as the baptism question goes, in Preach My Gospel it's traditionally taught in the third lesson, when the Gospel of Jesus Christ is taught (basically, the 4th Article of Faith). However, it adds the comment to "do not hesitate" to ask the question at any time "if the Spirit directs." Plus, considering that PMG allows you to change the order of the lessons as circumstances direct (or spend more than one day on a PMG lesson if needed), there really is no set time that you're "supposed" to commit somebody to baptism. PMG doesn't say to do it on the first lesson just as much as it doesn't say to do it on any other lesson. The directive here is, like any commitment, to invite somebody to act when the Spirit directs, and when the investigator is ready to accept the commitment.

[Guest Magen_Avot]

Dahlia,

You are right that challenging for baptism on the first lesson is 'a bit much'. Yet, if we teach by the spirit, the 6th lesson may be too soon. As LittleWyvern correctly stated it should be as the spirit dictates. When I did it (just once) on my mission a couple of decades ago the spirit told me three times and I resisted twice . I even told the spirit, "OK!, but this will be your fault!".

Also of interest: my son was told by his mission president to, "follow the spirit less and be more strictly obedient to the written lesson plan".

Missionaries are taught to be bold, and I understand that, but if we're not following the spirit we have no business being bold. On the other hand I know ward leaders who would prefer to keep members from expressing the trueness of the church when sharing their testimonies so as not to offend visitors. The only balance or right approach is to boldly follow the spirit.

I hope this clarifies what I did only once.