Mormon Church dress codes vs other church dress codes

[RMGuy]

By self-righteous, you mean people who disagree with your interpretation of things, right? Since Jesus has asked us to live a certain way and do certain things in certain ways, I guess he would fall into your definition of self-righteous. But as long as we all accept and see things your way it's okay, right?

Not at all John Doe. I'm not an eternal judge and I don't even play one on TV.

I believe firmly in agency. If someone shows up on Sunday in a Rolling Stones T shirt and cut off shorts, I'm all for it. If over time they decide to come in a shirt and tie I'm all for that too. :) If you want to pull them aside and explain the "unwritten order of things" then more power to you.

-RM

[RMGuy]

The churches that attract a younger crowd are getting ever more casual. I've seen people going to church in shorts and sandals.

There are many Sunday's that I wear sandals to church.....<gasp!>

Interestingly, it is a way for me to remember the Savior as I do so....it actually helps me to remember him.....sure hope it doesn't challenge any of your testimony's. I'm such a rebel!

-RM

[beefche]

Not at all John Doe. I'm not an eternal judge and I don't even play one on TV.

I believe firmly in agency. If someone shows up on Sunday in a Rolling Stones T shirt and cut off shorts, I'm all for it. If over time they decide to come in a shirt and tie I'm all for that too. :) If you want to pull them aside and explain the "unwritten order of things" then more power to you.

-RM

Oh for goodness sake. Who said on this board that they had the right, felt the obligation, or even ever did say something personally to someone to dress differently? Yes, stupid people have said things to others about their Sunday dress. That doesn't mean anyone supports them in doing so.

I don't believe john doe said anything about pulling someone aside to tell them the unwritten order of things.

[Backroads]

Its all about respect for our heavenly father for me.I would NEVER wear pants to church but I don't judge others that do. I want to wear my very best for the the lord.Its his day,its his home and I want him to know know how much I respect him and love him so I want to look my very best.I may be wrong but I feel when we are at church on sunday that of all days to not be part of the world this is the day especially is the day to not be part of the world.I feel different during the week but on sunday its a different feeling.I want to dress my best.

My recently-endowed grandmother has a woman in her ward who attends each week in a lovely, professional pantsuit. The woman has made it clear to the bishop that she will not wear a dress. Otherwise, the woman happily participates in church. I'm not in a position to know the details of this woman's insistence, but apparently the bishop figures the pant suit is worth the woman being active. :)

[RMGuy]

Oh for goodness sake. Who said on this board that they had the right, felt the obligation, or even ever did say something personally to someone to dress differently? Yes, stupid people have said things to others about their Sunday dress. That doesn't mean anyone supports them in doing so.

I don't believe john doe said anything about pulling someone aside to tell them the unwritten order of things.

Yes, thank you for quickly pointing out to me how John never mentioned pulling someone aside to tell them the unwritten order of things. You are quite correct.

Thank you also for sharing with John that RM never said, ”By self-righteous, you mean people who disagree with your interpretation of things, right?...But as long as we all accept and see things your way it's okay, right?” :)

My original point, or course, still stands. I think we all were granted agency. For my part I will welcome individuals who walk through the doors of my ward and stake even if they are in a t-shirt, shorts, flip-flops. I will do so whether they do so because it is all that they have, or because they have a bit of rebellion. I believe that talking to them about the issue in the first instance is only going to embarrass them, and doing so in the second instance is only going to heighten their rebelliousness. Since we all have agency, you and each of you can choose to act differently in the same situation.

-RM

[beefche]

Yes, thank you for quickly pointing out to me how John never mentioned pulling someone aside to tell them the unwritten order of things. You are quite correct.

Thank you also for sharing with John that RM never said, ”By self-righteous, you mean people who disagree with your interpretation of things, right?...But as long as we all accept and see things your way it's okay, right?” :)

My original point, or course, still stands. I think we all were granted agency. For my part I will welcome individuals who walk through the doors of my ward and stake even if they are in a t-shirt, shorts, flip-flops. I will do so whether they do so because it is all that they have, or because they have a bit of rebellion. I believe that talking to them about the issue in the first instance is only going to embarrass them, and doing so in the second instance is only going to heighten their rebelliousness. Since we all have agency, you and each of you can choose to act differently in the same situation.

-RM

Ok, let's try another route. Please quote someone from this board who said it is the right/obligation/whatever to pull someone aside to tell them they are dressed "wrong." I'm especially interested in seeing a quote from me or john doe since you so pointedly called both of us out on this.

[Dravin]

Ok, let's try another route. Please quote someone from this board who said it is the right/obligation/whatever to pull someone aside to tell them they are dressed "wrong." I'm especially interested in seeing a quote from me or john doe since you so pointedly called both of us out on this.

I think there may be some commingling of things going on.

When John was talking about people not seeing eye to eye with RMGuy, I suspect he meant not RMGuy's opposition to calling people out for being dressed inappropriately, but rather the thought that it isn't important to dress appropriately (which very well may not be RMGuy's position, but I suspect that's how he's being read by John). RMGuy is taking it though as opposition to the idea that we shouldn't be asking people why they hate God if they show up in a Van Halen T-shirt.

[pam]

Why is it that threads about how we should dress for church always get so heated?

[Guest gopecon]

With the many tasteful, feminine pant options out there I have never understood why some people are so hung up on skirts being the most proper way for a woman to dress at church. Female lawyers (not that lawyers should be our standard for decency - LOL) can wear pantsuits into courtrooms with no questions, while men are often expected to wear a suit and tie (in other words - the expectations are somewhat similar to people who participate in LDS meetings). Maybe it's because I'm a youngish (30something) guy, but it would probably not even cross my mind that a woman in a nice pantsuit in church was dressed inappropriately.

[MarginOfError]

Why is it that threads about how we should dress for church always get so heated?

Perhaps we should all just give up on clothing entirely, if it causes so much contention.

[Dravin]

Why is it that threads about how we should dress for church always get so heated?

Because everyone argues against the extreme and everyone else feels the opposite extreme is being put in their mouths. So side 1 rails against extreme A, and side 2 responds by railing against extreme B and so it starts. It's like a wave with ever increasing amplitude and ever decreasing period as a function of time. It happens with quite a few topics actually. Edited October 27, 2011 by Dravin

[RMGuy]

Ok, let's try another route. Please quote someone from this board who said it is the right/obligation/whatever to pull someone aside to tell them they are dressed "wrong." I'm especially interested in seeing a quote from me or john doe since you so pointedly called both of us out on this.

Ok, big breath and lets see if I can explain.....Dravin, I think, got it in his post following yours...but

Originally I posted a statement that said "I think there is a huge difference between a "righteous" member and a self-righteous member. Righteous people have strong values they wish to live by. Self-righteous people have strong values they wish YOU would live by."

The point was that so many times we think that the only way to be righteous is to do it the way that we would do it.

Interestingly enough John Doe then responded by accusing me of doing the very thing I pointed out in the statement...i.e. that everything was ok, so long as people did it MY way. (I think he missed the point of the statement)

Soooooo, I then responded back to say basically that I don't believe people have to do things my way at all. I could care less what someone wears to church. I then made the statement that if he wanted to pull them aside and explain that isn't how things are done, that of course he could. MEANING, quite the contrary to what he was implying, I have no desire to make people conform to my way of thinking, but that if he did, he was of course free to do so himself.

THEN you posted to say where did John ever state he wanted to take people aside and teach them the proper order of things.

I was amazed that you as a moderator seemed to be calling my behavior or posting into question for defending my original statement....and were concerned about putting words in John's mouth (so to speak) but didn't call John on not only doing the same. Hence my follow up (sarcastic) post.

There is the history. Let see if I can get the message across then without stepping on someones toes.

1. I don't care what someone wears to church

2. I don't care why they wear it (if it is all they have, or even if they are being rebellious)

3. It doesn't bother me.

4. If it does bother someone, then of course they can talk to that individual and explain why they think they should wear something different.

In relation to the first statement however. I find it interesting that we spend so much time wondering whether or not the deacon should be passing the sacrament because he is in blue jeans and a sweater as opposed to spending time reflecting on what we can do to apply the atonement in our lives.

So I'll reiterate it again. Righteous people have strong values they wish to live by. Self-righteous people have strong values they wish YOU would live by.

In church, I would be the guy sitting to your left in a white shirt, tie, and sometimes sandals. Ask yourself why it matters what the guy to your right is wearing.

-RM

[sister_in_faith]

This has me ALMOST wanting to go to church wearing a nice pair of pants, JUST to see what the reaction is. I'm in a different ward, so I'm really not sure what the reaction would be.

If I get up the guts I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[pam]

This has me ALMOST wanting to go to church wearing a nice pair of pants, JUST to see what the reaction is. I'm in a different ward, so I'm really not sure what the reaction would be.

If I get up the guts I'll let you guys know how it goes.

But then are you doing it just to be rebellious. Is that the spirit we want to promote?

[beefche]

I see. So, because john doe feels that people should have different standards of dress for church, you think he sits and contemplates how unrighteous you are sitting next to him wearing your sandals.

And you think I spend my time worrying about the deacon wearing the colored shirt who passed me the sacramental bread because I've stated that people should have different standards for church dress.

Perhaps it would help to explain something. I think that people should have different standards of dress for church than they do for any other activities in their life. I think people should wear their "Sunday best" to church. However, I do not sit and wonder why Sister Smith is wearing pants. I don't even think to myself, "Hmmm, she is wearing pants." Nor do I feel it is any right/obligation/compulsion on my part to ever, in any manner, tell her she should wear a skirt/dress to church. I normally think, "Hey! Sister Smith is here...I need to go say howdy to her."

We have several visitors and members in my ward who wear jeans, shorts, sandals and other attire that I, personally, would never wear to church. I greet them warmly and am excited that they are at church. I personally counsel investigators to just come to church regardless if they have what they feel are "appropriate clothes" (I visit teach investigators and have made it a point to encourage them to come to church and when they say they don't have anything to wear, I tell them to come as is--we are just happy to see them).

So, yeah, I got a bee in my bonnet for your sarcastic reply to me being self righteous for thinking that people should have different standards of dress. I wanted you to point out an instance when I or someone else like jd has said that they have pointedly pulled someone aside to instruct them on how to dress.

[beefche]

BTW, I've actually worn pants to church on a few occasions. I was in a position where I was unable to wear a skirt. Shocker! I went against my own beliefs to attend church in pants because I realize the importance of worshipping God over what I wear....

[pam]

Thread closed.