maiku Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 However there is a difference between Utah/Idaho mormons and anywhere else mormon. I travel a lot and find that outside of the Utah/idaho belt the church and the members are very different, more relaxed, happy, laid back and easier to get along with. There's something odd with members in Utah, especially out in regional and country areas. Maybe its because they are all republicans???? not sure.I can't really agree with that, not even on a general level. I don't live in Utah or Idaho but I have lived in both states at different times (UT pre-mish and then I went to BYU-I). I don't really see a difference in where in the US they live but HOW they live the gospel. If by laid back you mean not that active, that could also be anywhere else. I here this generalization all the time. My brother, who lives in Logan says he hates it but after I tell him of the lifestyles I'm confronted with daily in New Mexico, he apologizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norah63 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 So many threads to read. I came to this site just to explore all the diffrent levels of faith of my fellow christians. When I saw this one, Evangelicals and Mormons, it got my attention. For truly isn't there a bridge that can be built? Do we always have to stand apart from one another? It seems so sad. Jesus wanted all to be one as He and the Father are. I was raised RLDS, and you all know what that is about. As an adult, I accepted Christ into my heart when I was so desperate, and Heavenly Father was there for me. An awesome conversion on my own back porch that has served me for over thirty years. Anyway, I'm really enjoying the posts. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 What evidence is there that Evangelicals are any happier than Mormons or anyone else?None. I've seen Mormon missionaries that were thrilled at the number of lives they touch going door to door. I've seen Catholics as happy as can be as they serve food to the homeless. I've seen Evangelicals on top of the world as they lead their best friend to Christ. "Yea", Jesus says, "rather happy are those who hear the word of God and do it." (Lk 11:28) Happiness is achieved by getting outside ourselves and escaping the bonds of spiritual lethargy by reaching out to others in the name of Christ. My own happiest moments bear out this truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I will not deny that some Christians have this distorted belief. However, very few churches promote it. Rather we despise this thinking as "cheap grace." (see : "Cheap Grace" is no bargain, Dietrich Bonhoeffer) Nobody can game God.For a short explanation of my church's doctrine on sanctification (holiness) see: Sanctification & HolinessAs I read these links- I do not see enough difference for anyone to try to get excited about??? I am confused as to why the points of grace, forgiveness, and being spiritually reborn are considered doctrines of dispute and disagreement between LDS and the Assembly of G-d any more than these points divide the Assembly of G-d with other Evangelicals? The Traveler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) As I read these links- I do not see enough difference for anyone to try to get excited about??? I am confused as to why the points of grace, forgiveness, and being spiritually reborn are considered doctrines of dispute and disagreement between LDS and the Assembly of G-d any more than these points divide the Assembly of G-d with other Evangelicals? The TravelerWe are indeed much closer than LDS would be with Calvinists. The Armenian-Calvinist debate was front and center in religious circles during Joseph Smith's time. Churches were arguing about it, and condemning each other over the matter. Joseph Smith clearly sided with the Armenians, taking it even further through his teachings on free agency.Much of what divides us is perception. It is so easy for evangelicals to define LDS doctrine as "works salvation," and for LDS to view salvation-by-sinner-s-prayer as "cheap grace." So caricature is a large part of the chasm on this matter.Trying to discern the real divide is much more complicated, as it includes beliefs about multiple heavenly kingdoms, exaltation, and several other doctrines. I see more and more that attempting to discuss single doctrines in isolation is near-impossible, that few have the patience to carry on the long-term conversations necessary to get at the honest differences.As for what separates the Assemblies of God from other evangelicals, on grace, it comes down to two doctrines.1. We are Armenian, whereas many evangelicals are Reformed (Calvinists). When the National Association of Evangelicals began Calvinists were in the majority. Today, Armenians are. As a side note, Southern Baptists tend to be Armenian, but there is a resurgence of Calvinist teaching in some of their seminaries. So, they may be confronting the issue more and more. Tiptoeing through TULIP | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction2. There is some evangelicals who believe in sanctification (holiness) as a single, spiritual experience. This group argues that the Holy Spirit perfects a believer through a divine encounter, usually experienced at a prayer altar. These churches are known as "Holiness." Some are pentecostal, others are not. See this link for an article by a Nazarene professor, highlighting holiness and sanctification as both an experience and a lifestyle. (Note that Nazarenes are not Pentecostal): http://usamission.nazarene.org/LinkClick1238.pdf?fileticket=gn-Y-6Lung4%3D&tabid=484The Assemblies of God rejects this teaching, believing instead that the Holy Spirit empowers us daily for holiness, but that we are experiencing "progressive sanctification." That is, we are maturing in Christ, and gradually becoming more like him. Edited December 5, 2011 by prisonchaplain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norah63 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Having visited and posted on several so called christian forums. For one thing if they see you have posted on a site that is friendly to LDS or RLDS, they just say "you are worshiping another Jesus". That totally confuses me. There is only one Jesus. So there is my two cents. How can there be any co-operation when they won't even consider you a chiristian? I think there should be a bridge between us all and he is our Lord Jesus too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 For a short explanation of my church's doctrine on sanctification (holiness) see: Sanctification & HolinessCool and if you like..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Having visited and posted on several so called christian forums. For one thing if they see you have posted on a site that is friendly to LDS or RLDS, they just say "you are worshiping another Jesus". That totally confuses me. There is only one Jesus. So there is my two cents. What they usually mean by this "other Jesus" comment is that the LDS doctrine of Jesus is very different from that of Protestants and Catholics. How can there be any co-operation when they won't even consider you a chiristian?I think there should be a bridge between us all and he is our Lord Jesus too. Cooperation might be very difficult. Conversation should be possible though. After all, we all are God-seekers. That should be enough for the sincere-minded to engage one another in respectful dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGuy Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 What they usually mean by this "other Jesus" comment is that the LDS doctrine of Jesus is very different from that of Protestants and Catholics. You can learn all about evangelicals and their views of Jesus by reading those infamous Chick Tracks booklets. They can be hateful but they are fun to read if you are not Catholic, LDS, Muslim, Buddhist, gay, drug user, rapist, nature lover, Hollywood people, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy_do46 Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ok, here goes my wicked sense of humor that I seem to get at this time of year. "If You are Happy and You know it say, "Amen". "If You Chance to meet a frown, turn it upside down" As my grandmother use to say. "Happy is as happy does." I know often when I am unhappy in the church it starts with something I am not doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 You can learn all about evangelicals and their views of Jesus by reading those infamous Chick Tracks booklets. They can be hateful but they are fun to read if you are not Catholic, LDS, Muslim, Buddhist, gay, drug user, rapist, nature lover, Hollywood people, etc...Not sure All Evangelicals feel that way....but, Chick traks are funny (and stupidly ignorant). They seem to have a particularly large axe to grind with our Catholic brethren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) What evidence is there that Evangelicals are any happier than Mormons or anyone else?Statistical analysis by the Berkeley School of Humanistic Utopian and Euphoric and Well Being Symposium strongly suggests that Evangelicals are in fact thinner and have a general sense of well being closely associated with their personal salvation as well as the amount of fermented hops that are consumed on a weekly basis versus their Mormon counterparts.Personally, I think it has more to do with the French Roast...... Edited December 6, 2011 by bytor2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) You can learn all about evangelicals and their views of Jesus by reading those infamous Chick Tracks booklets. They can be hateful but they are fun to read if you are not Catholic, LDS, Muslim, Buddhist, gay, drug user, rapist, nature lover, Hollywood people, etc... Not to strain gnats, but Chick Tracts, and his other books and comics have been absent from evangelical bookstores for decades. He is not an evangelical, but a very hardline fundamentalist. He insists on King James Version Only, and would likely have no kind words for pentecostals like myself either.Jack T. Chick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaEvangelicalism - Theopedia, an encyclopedia of Biblical Christianity Edited December 6, 2011 by prisonchaplain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ah that grand old game, he who squawks the loudest gets credited with representing the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norah63 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Very much like that teaching, "progressive sanctification". Maturing in Christ as we receive light. Not much communication from the OSAS people. Maybe not angry but sure not friendly in their approach. Guess the "come let us reason togeather", is only among themselves. Building a bridge between believers is a tough project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Not to strain gnats, but Chick Tracts, and his other books and comics have been absent from evangelical bookstores for decades. He is not an evangelical, but a very hardline fundamentalist. He insists on King James Version Only, and would likely have no kind words for pentecostals like myself either.Jack T. Chick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaEvangelicalism - Theopedia, an encyclopedia of Biblical ChristianityI wonder if any study has been done as to how many people were saved after picking up a chick trak left on top of the paper towel dispenser in the men's room. Can you imagine? "Look, a pamphlet somebody left, I wonder what it says. I'm a sinner? This Jesus guy died for me? I'm going to go to hell if I don't repent? Woe is me, I am undone! Chick Trak Jesus, please save me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Probably not many...but say the answer was three. Hundreds of thousands of dollars spent, many hours of tract placing, a good amount of argument because of the confrontational tones...but in the end, three people got saved. So...was it worth it? Surely it was to those three. Then again...how many potential converts were turned away because of the tone of those tracts? How many who might have given a gentle, loving Christian a fair hearing, hardened their hearts because they saw these and figured that was the Christian God? No easy answers. It is clear why Paul's letters warn that we should be careful about seeking the role of teacher, since those who do are held to a much higher standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 As long as all you're going for is Salvation, then doing less is fine. Mormons are looking for Exaltation - something quite different and requiring more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I'm trying to make the connection between Chick Tracts and exaltation...but I'm a little on the slow side today, I guess . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I'm trying to make the connection between Chick Tracts and exaltation...but I'm a little on the slow side today, I guess . . .I think the point is that those tracts often require only an utterance of "I believe" to be saved, and even if sincere, it is only the first step in a process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I think the point is that those tracts often require only an utterance of "I believe" to be saved, and even if sincere, it is only the first step in a process. O I C...a sly attempt to transition from the tactics of Jack Chick to another grace/works discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 O I C...a sly attempt to transition from the tactics of Jack Chick to another grace/works discussion...Isn't that what it always ends up being about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norah63 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 How true that is, grace really does work! And to fall in love with the giver of grace will change a life. Really enjoying the coments on this thread. Can't see if one type of believer is any happier than any other, and really what can just being happy teach us? I like the scripture that says, 'taste and see that the Lord is good'. Just a simple taste of the good life He offers will satisfy the hungry soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norah63 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Oh I forgot, I read a few of those chick tracks years ago. Thought they might get the message across in a shock fashion. Seemed a little hollow to me at the time. Think they may still be laying around the house somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly200 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Bill Clinton, Newt and now Herman Cain truly love that doctrine!Just FYI, Newt Gingrich is a Catholic, and the Catholic Church does not teach this doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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