Something That Has Me Cheesed Off!

[shanstress70]

Isn't one of the responsibilities of a bishop to look after those in his flock? Frankly, I would be concerned as well if I knew someone was moving into my area and didn't have a place to stay or a job lined up that will help them get one in a timely manner. Where are you planning to stay? (Of course this is none of my business, but if you're expecting people in your church to put you up, it IS your bishop's business.) I realize that I may just not have enough info here, so don't get all mad on me! :)

What business is it of yours if a kid is playing video games during SM? You may think it's wrong and it may BE wrong, but you don't have the right to say something to them... that's between them and their family.

And it's not your place to tell anyone to get to class.

Perhaps you should focus on taking care of you and your own family instead of worrying about what others are doing. We can't control what other people do, but we can go crazy trying!

[Dr T]

Hello MrsS,

I'm sorry that you went through that with your ex.

When you are talking about Jesus forgiving, you are right (from my reading) He did as the Father to forgive them for they knew not what they were doing. When he said that though, He was talking about the soldiers that were beating him, casting lots for his clothes, and crucifying Him.

Dr. T

[Palerider]

Perhaps I can shed some light as to why the Clerk reacted the way he did. He should not have been asking those nosy questions(my opinion). Some Bishops see this happen alot where a family moves into the ward and while the Bishop is speaking with them it comes out they moved here cause the Lord told them to. Alot of times they have a hard time trying to find employment that will provide everything for the family budget. When these needs are not met they ask for help from the church, food from the store house and using the Lords money from fast offerings are needed. I am far from an expert but....10 yrs of my life have been devoted to serving as a Bishop. I have had this expierence with several families that have done just what I mentioned. When I hear about families quitting jobs and moving cause they felt in their heart the Lord told them to do this....I truly hope for their sake he really did tell them. On the other hand I think...would Heavenly Father tell people to quit their jobs and uproot their family and move to another location with no job on the horizon??...The families I have dealt with, have not been successfull in their moving. I have grown up in the church and I can remember a family that joined the church and after 2yrs they sold their house and bought a used school bus and packed up and moved to Utah. They were prepared to live in this if they could not find housing or employment. I have no idea what happened to that family...I always hoped everything worked out for them. Sabran....I truly hope all works out for you and your family and hope this is a positive move for you. I will say...when you tell Bishops what you have just done...yes they will probally think about all the others that have done the same. We are not perfect...but we just try to do whats right. Stay positive and don't give up.

[lisajo]

What business is it of yours if a kid is playing video games during SM? You may think it's wrong and it may BE wrong, but you don't have the right to say something to them... that's between them and their family.

Ok lets not be to harsh on her on this, church buildings are a house of God, reverence, and respect should be practiced, exspecially in the chapel, I think she is just pointing out how rude this is....which it is.

[Yokomsa]

Isn't one of the responsibilities of a bishop to look after those in his flock? Frankly, I would be concerned as well if I knew someone was moving into my area and didn't have a place to stay or a job lined up that will help them get one in a timely manner. Where are you planning to stay? (Of course this is none of my business, but if you're expecting people in your church to put you up, it IS your bishop's business.) I realize that I may just not have enough info here, so don't get all mad on me! :)

What business is it of yours if a kid is playing video games during SM? You may think it's wrong and it may BE wrong, but you don't have the right to say something to them... that's between them and their family.

And it's not your place to tell anyone to get to class.

Perhaps you should focus on taking care of you and your own family instead of worrying about what others are doing. We can't control what other people do, but we can go crazy trying!

______________________________________________________________________________________

I never did mention the Bishop of the ward... I said the ward clerk. I never said that I was expecting the members of the church to "put us up". We have just enough savings to move us and be set up comfortably in a place of residence for 3 months. The church's resources are better spent on those that need it and not on my family. I did not make any such request only made contact with the Church to let them be aware that they had new members moving into the area in less than 60 days and that we may need information about the area and questions answered, not a handout. Not mad... just concerned that more was perceived in my statements than that was actually there.

It is my business when a child's gameboy's volume is turned up and the parent won't request it to be turned down. I never said that I spoke to that child... again more assumptions.

It was my place- part of the Sunday School presidency. Outside of that, I only tell my children to get to class. Again more assumptions

Look, the bottom line is that members of the church should be able to attend meetings in an environment that is conducive to the Spirit. I can understand people having cell phones for business. My husband carries a pager and puts it on vibrate as well as the cell phone. But things like the gaming systems with their volume up and the game echoing the words- "Die Die Die," are a major distraction.

Who said I was worried about other people? What I have been stating is some things that I have been involved with or personally witnessed that are a bit frustrating. Trust me, I lose sleep over better things than Church members and my focus has always been on my family. But there is such words like manners and etiquette that still need to be displayed.

[StrawberryFields]

Oh boy, although I agree that Sabran should not be judged she should also not judge how a parent controls or doesn't control their children. Certainly if the volume is turned up the way she says it will come to the attention of more people then just her.

When my children were small we used to take Cheerios and coloring books to help entertain them in SM. As they grew it turned to quiet books. In their teens it has turned to cell phones and my own kids play games occasionally on the cell phone but always on the silent mode and not daring the sacrament. Maybe the mistake was made in the beginning by 'entertaining them' as children? I know some parents are just happy to have their children come to church in the first place.Being understanding of what could possibly be going on within a family is a Christ-like thing to do IMO.

[shanstress70]

I never did mention the Bishop of the ward... I said the ward clerk. I never said that I was expecting the members of the church to "put us up". We have just enough savings to move us and be set up comfortably in a place of residence for 3 months. The church's resources are better spent on those that need it and not on my family. I did not make any such request only made contact with the Church to let them be aware that they had new members moving into the area in less than 60 days and that we may need information about the area and questions answered, not a handout. Not mad... just concerned that more was perceived in my statements than that was actually there.

It is my business when a child's gameboy's volume is turned up and the parent won't request it to be turned down. I never said that I spoke to that child... again more assumptions.

It was my place- part of the Sunday School presidency. Outside of that, I only tell my children to get to class. Again more assumptions

Look, the bottom line is that members of the church should be able to attend meetings in an environment that is conducive to the Spirit. I can understand people having cell phones for business. My husband carries a pager and puts it on vibrate as well as the cell phone. But things like the gaming systems with their volume up and the game echoing the words- "Die Die Die," are a major distraction.

Who said I was worried about other people? What I have been stating is some things that I have been involved with or personally witnessed that are a bit frustrating. Trust me, I lose sleep over better things than Church members and my focus has always been on my family. But there is such words like manners and etiquette that still need to be displayed.

Sorry, my bad reading thinking you said 'bishop'! And with this extra info you gave me, no, I don't think they should have said those things to you. If you don't expect anyone to put you up, then you should not have to answer to anyone. This is why I acknowledged in the last post that I didn't really have enough info.

As far as the Gameboy thing goes, this statement made me 'assume' that you said something to the kid: "The worst thing I have EVER seen is a child playing a Gameboy in Sacrament meetings. These actions have been witnessed time and time again. But when you witness something inappropriate and you want to bring it to the attention of the person, you get labels and people start to talk about ya behind your back."

But now I see that doesn't NECESSARILY mean you said something to them about THAT incident.

And I made no assumptions about telling someone to get to class - you DID say that. I just think that each of us should be responsible for our own children's behavior. That's fine that we have differing opinions on this matter. It gets touchy when people start correcting each others' children, because we don't all have the same parenting methods or place importance on the same things.

You said: "Trust me, I lose sleep over better things than Church members and my focus has always been on my family." What better things are there to lose sleep over than your own church members (other than your own family)? Honestly, it seems like you don't care for them anymore than they do you.

[prisonchaplain]

Thats a true shame! I must ask which state did you move too? This sounds alot like my ward here. although my ward in Utah was so much more like that, sometimes i think they forget the true meaning of why they are there, sad truley sad!

When people are disruptive in my 'ward' I can write them a shot for interferring with programming, and have then sent to the hole. If they sneek out to have a private conversation, I can cite them for being "out of bounds." Anybody jealous?

IM ALWAYS HO the title is a little too dairy-centric. Maybe "irrigated" would work better than cheesed off. :-)

[lisajo]

<div class='quotemain'>

Thats a true shame! I must ask which state did you move too? This sounds alot like my ward here. although my ward in Utah was so much more like that, sometimes i think they forget the true meaning of why they are there, sad truley sad!

When people are disruptive in my 'ward' I can write them a shot for interferring with programming, and have then sent to the hole. If they sneek out to have a private conversation, I can cite them for being "out of bounds." Anybody jealous?

IM ALWAYS HO the title is a little too dairy-centric. Maybe "irrigated" would work better than cheesed off. :-)

LOL PC you crack me up! Guess you have never heard the Phrase "Cheesed Off" before, I must say it does sound a little Gassy LOLOLOL

[Maureen]

Oh boy, although I agree that Sabran should not be judged she should also not judge how a parent controls or doesn't control their children.

Yes she can, that's part of being a human parent. I do it all the time! If I see misbehaved kids, I definitely blame the parents for the children's actions, because it's usually the parents fault. It's just a normal parenting thing to do. IMO, all parents compare their parenting skills to other parents - and some parents are better at parenting than others.

M.

[StrawberryFields]

<div class='quotemain'>

Oh boy, although I agree that Sabran should not be judged she should also not judge how a parent controls or doesn't control their children.

Yes she can, that's part of being a human parent. I do it all the time! If I see misbehaved kids, I definitely blame the parents for the children's actions, because it's usually the parents fault. It's just a normal parenting thing to do. IMO, all parents compare their parenting skills to other parents - and some parents are better at parenting than others.

M.

Maybe it's just my age showing here but I am of the opinion that I will judge anothers parenting by the same measuring stick I would expect them to measure mine.

I have walked the high road and the low road and what I have discovered is that most people want the same thing in life for their children. How they get there doesn't seem to be as important as the end result. Our children will never remember everything we even said to them but they will remember how we make them feel.

Back to the gameboy issue. I personally find it hard to believe that any parent would allow it to be played in Sacrament meeting with the sound on as she describes. I still feel that we are better off not judging something like this. All it would take is for her, Sabran, to give him a bad time about playing the game in church and the teenager might never come back.

I am quite sure that a unknowing do-gooder can do more damage in a time like this then what they think is justified.

Go ahead and judge the parents you come in contact with and see what kind of emotions fester within you.

[Guest MrsS]

Maybe it's just my age showing here but I am of the opinion that I will judge anothers parenting by the same measuring stick I would expect them to measure mine.

I have walked the high road and the low road and what I have discovered is that most people want the same thing in life for their children. How they get there doesn't seem to be as important as the end result. Our children will never remember everything we even said to them but they will remember how we make them feel.

Back to the gameboy issue. I personally find it hard to believe that any parent would allow it to be played in Sacrament meeting with the sound on as she describes. I still feel that we are better off not judging something like this. All it would take is for her, Sabran, to give him a bad time about playing the game in church and the teenager might never come back.

I am quite sure that a unknowing do-gooder can do more damage in a time like this then what they think is justified.

Go ahead and judge the parents you come in contact with and see what kind of emotions fester within you.

AMEN to that Sister! My thoughts and feelings exactly.

[LionHeart]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Oh boy, although I agree that Sabran should not be judged she should also not judge how a parent controls or doesn't control their children.

Yes she can, that's part of being a human parent. I do it all the time! If I see misbehaved kids, I definitely blame the parents for the children's actions, because it's usually the parents fault. It's just a normal parenting thing to do. IMO, all parents compare their parenting skills to other parents - and some parents are better at parenting than others.

M.

Maybe it's just my age showing here but I am of the opinion that I will judge anothers parenting by the same measuring stick I would expect them to measure mine.

I have walked the high road and the low road and what I have discovered is that most people want the same thing in life for their children. How they get there doesn't seem to be as important as the end result. Our children will never remember everything we even said to them but they will remember how we make them feel.

Back to the gameboy issue. I personally find it hard to believe that any parent would allow it to be played in Sacrament meeting with the sound on as she describes. I still feel that we are better off not judging something like this. All it would take is for her, Sabran, to give him a bad time about playing the game in church and the teenager might never come back.

I am quite sure that a unknowing do-gooder can do more damage in a time like this then what they think is justified.

Go ahead and judge the parents you come in contact with and see what kind of emotions fester within you.

If I was teaching a class and the children were being this disrespectful, their parents would not be informed, their parents would be warned. And if it continued, there might be a few kids who have a hard time sitting down for a while. If the parents quit sending them, it's all good. It's their responsiblity to raise their children; not mine. If the child won't be reverent in the house of the Lord, he can't come in. If the parents want their children to be worthy to enter, they had better teach them to be reverent.

As for the game boy issue, perhaps giving this kid a hard time about it might chase him off, or it might get him to stop. The point is, it's not the action, it's the attitude. If he continues with this attitude, he most likely won't be around much longer anyway.

I know if I saw a kid playing a game boy in church, he would defenitely know that I strongly disagree, and that the church is the house of the Lord, not a place where kids can come to play video games. Especially given the nature of the average video game nowdays. VERY un-Godly!!

L.H.

[Brother Dorsey]

Hi....I would like to throw in my 3 cents worth regarding this subject...

It is common practice in the Sacrament meeting in the LDS ward to provide a distraction for the preschoolers, ie: snacks, picture and color books and yes sometimes even small toys....as a parent of a 5 year old I can tell you it is not easy to keep a 5 year old still and quiet for a full hour...they fidget and fuss and become bored very easily and sometimes must be escorted to the foyer....and speaking from experience (I have children 26, 20, 17, 16, & 15 too) this has always been the case...no matter how much you teach them about reverence....they cannot control themselves...sometimes even to the age of 7 or 8. As for teenagers, this too is difficult as they are more interested in hanging with their friends at church after Sacrament than they are sitting through 35 minutes of speakers..alot of times my teenagers draw, whisper to eachother and fiddle with any number of things they find in their pockets....and because of todays technology, yes they sometimes whip out their cell phones and play a game. But, of course, NOT during the passing of the Sacrament itself.

No ward in itself is going to be the perfect ward to attend....

Just because we all believe in the same thing does not mean we are all the same....so, you will have noisey kids and rude behaviors, you will have the disheveled dressers, the self righteous and those with their noses in the air....but, well, thats life....isn't that why we're there....to perfect ourselves?

As far as speaking in church and talking about the Prophets and what they have done for the church.....I see nothing wrong with that as we are being taught a principle of the Gospel that the Lord wants us to learn. Think about it like this....we sustain the Presidency of the church, we sustain our Bishops and we sustain all those called within our wards.....so we must sustain their decision as to who speaks in church and what they are speaking about. I say if you have a problem with what is being spoken about in your ward Sacrament meetings, go to your Bishop and volunteer to speak!

Yes, meeting on Sundays to renew our covanents of Baptism by partaking of the Sacrament is important...but so is learning about the church and it's doctrine....and listening to speakers talk about the Prophets and their experiences and being thankful for them is not forsaking the worship of Christ or the Father...it's edifying our faith, uplifting our Spirits as well as building our testimonies and teaching us! I recently gave a talk in Sacrament about teaching the Gospel by example...and trust me I used many examples....mainly Christ being the best exemplar but also the Prophets Joseph Smith, Taylor, Woodruff and our own beloved Gordon B....I even talked about our wonderful Bishop we have as an example of love for his fellow man. I have no problem praising the Prophets or even my Bishop for their work in the Kingdom,....heck giving them recognition a few moments a week during a Sacrament talk is a tiny pittance compared to the rest of the time I have to be thankful I have a loving Father in Heaven and a Savior who love me.

Just rember, this is Christ's church...he's in charge....if he felt he was being cheated out of recognition during the Sacrament talks I think he would have made it known to us by now....

That's my 3 cents...spend it wisely

[StrawberryFields]

<div class='quotemain'>

Go ahead and judge the parents you come in contact with and see what kind of emotions fester within you.

If I was teaching a class and the children were being this disrespectful, their parents would not be informed, their parents would be warned. And if it continued, there might be a few kids who have a hard time sitting down for a while. If the parents quit sending them, it's all good. It's their responsiblity to raise their children; not mine. If the child won't be reverent in the house of the Lord, he can't come in. If the parents want their children to be worthy to enter, they had better teach them to be reverent.

As for the game boy issue, perhaps giving this kid a hard time about it might chase him off, or it might get him to stop. The point is, it's not the action, it's the attitude. If he continues with this attitude, he most likely won't be around much longer anyway.

I know if I saw a kid playing a game boy in church, he would defenitely know that I strongly disagree, and that the church is the house of the Lord, not a place where kids can come to play video games. Especially given the nature of the average video game nowdays. VERY un-Godly!!

L.H.

LH

Do I understand you right.... First you would warn the parents of disrespectful children who you teach, if that didn't work you would punish these children and they would have a hard time sitting down????

You further add that only reverant children can come into the house of the Lord?

This is so far from anything I consider to be Christian. I have alway believed that our church is for Perfecting the Saints not Perfect Saints. Furthermore, I believe it to be people with these attitudes which give members of the church a bad name. Where is the tolerance in that kind of thinking?

[LionHeart]

The thing is, if the standards by which people are held to are lowered, then the people will lower with them. That is just a fact of life. If these things are allowed then people will most certainly do it. Then the result will be that nobody goes to church because they can't feel the spirit anyway, which is one of the reasons for going. If things are allowed in the church that will chase away the spirit, how can people come to renew their spirit?

These are the lines I'm thinking on.

L.H.

[Brother Dorsey]

The thing is, if the standards by which people are held to are lowered, then the people will lower with them. That is just a fact of life.

This I absolutely agree with....just look at what is morally acceptable today as opposed to 30 years ago! This is why I am so grateful for the church in teaching us to maintain the standard God wishes for us!

If these things are allowed then people will most certainly do it.

Not if they are faithful followers of the Lords church!

Then the result will be that nobody goes to church because they can't feel the spirit anyway, which is one of the reasons for going.

Actually the main reason the majority of LDS members go to church is to partake of the Sacrament to renew our Baptismal covanents, secondly to learn and study the Gospel and lastly to serve eachother. The Spirit will only leave us if we forsake him by not keeping the Lords commandments....unless you are not LDS and have not recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost as a constant companion.

If things are allowed in the church that will chase away the spirit, how can people come to renew their spirit?

These are the lines I'm thinking on.

Exactly as I stated....if you are not LDS and have not recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost....you can only feel him with you at certain times because he is not a constant companion.....LDS do not need to go to church to have the Spirit with them, he's always with them!

[LionHeart]

Exactly as I stated....if you are not LDS and have not recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost....you can only feel him with you at certain times because he is not a constant companion.....LDS do not need to go to church to have the Spirit with them, he's always with them!

Actually, on the contrary, people can get so involved with their weekly activities that their spirits need to recharge. Especially if they work around people who have low morals. It is times like this that someone needs to attend a service of some type to renew their spirit. True, the Holy Ghost is a huge help, but I think everyone can agree that if you fall in a mud hole, you will get muddy.

L.H.

[StrawberryFields]

I think this is why the church is trying to simplify things...get back to the basics.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink.

[LionHeart]

Look, I'm sorry if some people disagree; that is your right, but for crying out loud, we're talking about video games in church. That, in my books, is unacceptable. I'll admit that some people have more of knack for parenting than others, and I realize that nobody is perfect; and I have no problems with those who are trying. The ones that get under my skin are the ones who have children that run amuck and all they do about it is shrug it off and say "Oh he's just really rambunxious." This accomplishes nothing.

But the video games are outrageous.

L.H.

[Dr T]

Hi L.H.,

I wasn't sure if you were saying that you (not being their parent) would spank those children while at church. Is that why they would have a hard time sitting down?

Thanks

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

Exactly as I stated....if you are not LDS and have not recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost....you can only feel him with you at certain times because he is not a constant companion.....LDS do not need to go to church to have the Spirit with them, he's always with them!

Actually, on the contrary, people can get so involved with their weekly activities that their spirits need to recharge. Especially if they work around people who have low morals. It is times like this that someone needs to attend a service of some type to renew their spirit. True, the Holy Ghost is a huge help, but I think everyone can agree that if you fall in a mud hole, you will get muddy.

L.H.

I believe that we go to church, not to feel the spirit, but to learn how to keep it with us all week.

I also don't mind young children bringing games as long as the volume is off and they are silent so I can hear a message that can help me keep the spirit with me better.

I also don't have a huge problem keeping it with me all week like you make it seem most people do, and I know that the majority of youth in my church don't have that problem either.

I also feel it wien I go to members houses to babysit.....

So I assume that they feel it too, because the spirit certainly is there.

I just wanted to put that out there.

That is just my opinion and what I personally feel.

[Brother Dorsey]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Exactly as I stated....if you are not LDS and have not recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost....you can only feel him with you at certain times because he is not a constant companion.....LDS do not need to go to church to have the Spirit with them, he's always with them!

Actually, on the contrary, people can get so involved with their weekly activities that their spirits need to recharge. Especially if they work around people who have low morals. It is times like this that someone needs to attend a service of some type to renew their spirit. True, the Holy Ghost is a huge help, but I think everyone can agree that if you fall in a mud hole, you will get muddy.

L.H.

I believe that we go to church, not to feel the spirit, but to learn how to keep it with us all week.

I also don't mind young children bringing games as long as the volume is off and they are silent so I can hear a message that can help me keep the spirit with me better.

I also don't have a huge problem keeping it with me all week like you make it seem most people do, and I know that the majority of youth in my church don't have that problem either.

I also feel it wien I go to members houses to babysit.....

So I assume that they feel it too, because the spirit certainly is there.

I just wanted to put that out there.

That is just my opinion and what I personally feel.

Desire' you are a very smart young woman....you remind me of my 17 year old daughter...

[Maureen]

Back to the gameboy issue. I personally find it hard to believe that any parent would allow it to be played in Sacrament meeting with the sound on as she describes. I still feel that we are better off not judging something like this.

Believe me, there are parents out there that are clueless about their children's attitudes and actions when they're in public; or the parents are lacking in social etiquette themselves that they've lacked the ability to teach their children. They exist, you just haven't met them yet.

All it would take is for her, Sabran, to give him a bad time about playing the game in church and the teenager might never come back.

I doubt the teenager could care less about another parent who chastises him for being rude; I'd suspect he'd be indifferent to other people's feelings. And if he's that disrepectful in church, he'd probably be happy to not be there in the first place.

Go ahead and judge the parents you come in contact with and see what kind of emotions fester within you.

Why would something fester in me just because I think some people are poor at parenting?

M.

[Snow]

Greetings one and all!

I have been inactive for awhile and I am tip toeing back in the realm of the Church. No, I never lost my testimony, I just put it away for awhile.

Anyway. Something that I have a growing concern about is the rudeness of the church members and over usage of the Prophets of the Church in Sunday talks.

Here is the rudeness observation-

For example- me and my family are preparing to leave one state completely and move to another one. There are some factors here- no job, housing, or even a friend. We are basically taking a huge leap of faith. Anyway, I call the local area church and leave a message.

Later on, I get a phone call from a ward clerk who made me feel like I had to justify my family's move to HIS ward. I clearly stated that we weren't looking for assistance, but we wanted church members to be aware that we would be possibly attending the ward in the near future. He actually said to me, "I don't understand why you are moving to a place where you have no jobs, housing, or anything." It almost felt like he was suggesting that we were getting ready to scam the Church out of a jar of peach jam! (Which is sooo good! But I will go and buy my supply for food storage!)

Then I quickly replied- "are you going sit on your bottom when the good Lord tells you something to do?" The Lord has confirmed that we are to be moving onto this place and that should be good enough. I basically told him that my husband's family always said when a new church member calls you, you say Welcome to the area and the Ward--- How may I be of assistance.

The rudeness doesn't stop there. It is seen in the halls while classes are going on, Sacrament being passed. The worst thing I have EVER seen is a child playing a Gameboy in Sacrament meetings. These actions have been witnessed time and time again. But when you witness something inappropriate and you want to bring it to the attention of the person, you get labels and people start to talk about ya behind your back.

Then along the same lines with the Gameboy, the young men and women are being allowed to get away with anything! For example, I have observed that a bishop will take a young man under his wing and have him be an errand boy for the bishop. This never fails- he thinks he is exempt from the rules of the Church because he has the bishop's permission to run amuck. Once he gets done with whatever, he gets his friends together and then they go to the halls and act like that is their living room and when you tell them to get to class, they get that dumb "deer in the headlights look" and put the act on of what--- I am not doing anything wrong. Bull! You are breathing oxygen outside your classroom!

Where are church member's manners and etiquette these days?

Baloney!

What a bunch of hypersensitive, I'm-a-victim-of-somebody-else's-behavior-that-is-not-as-good-as-my-own tripe.

The ward clerk made a remark that you didn't like. BIG DEAL. Looking at your self-righteous, superficial rant, I can easily imagine that you make lots of comments that other people don't like. Grow a spine.

So some kids were acting like kids. Big deal. That's why they call em kids - cuz they act that way.

Then my 2nd topic--

The over usage of the Prophets in Sunday Talks. AKA- Less glory to God given.

Sittin in Sacrament meeting was listening to some talks and I realized that all 3 talks given down played the role or hardly acknowledged God. But yet, Joseph Smith was put on that throne instead.

I have a real concern when a mortal man is now put on the same level as Our Heavenly Father. Joseph DIDN'T start the church! God started it a long time ago and found Joseph willing to take on the task of bringing it back to people. He knew that it would be hard and life would be tough, but he took on the task of becoming the Prophet of the new Church. Prophet essentially means one regarded by a group of followers as the final authoritative revealer of God's will This is just in case you were wondering the definition of Prophet. I like Merriam-Websters dictionary online!!

Joseph played a pivotal role in many things, but his accomplishments are NOT on the level of Christ's sacrifice for us. Joseph was still mortal, he had bad habits, and he even probably got egotistical in leading the church because of the guidance which was given and the members gained wealth and status and Joseph was right in the middle!

In my View I feel that there is too much attention placed on the Prophets of the Church. They are merely the mouth pieces for Our Heavenly Father and they are just like you and me in most respects. Speak with respect and dignity that is owed to those men, but don't go on and on about them! AND stop with the statues, the pictures, the memorials, etc. We are almost turning Catholic in that sense. ( I know... been there, done that!)

Why not try a talk where not 1 single prophet of the church is mentioned?

Give the Glory, honor, and praise back to Heavenly Father, not to a mortal man who brought the words back to the Earth. To him, we just owe a simple thank you because that is all he would really want.

Sorry to ramble, but these are a few things that have been bugging me.

So who died and left you as Chief of Policing Sacrament Talks?

I like to talk about great historical figures and like to hear about them. Some one gets a wild hair that unless other members of the Church follow their particular prescription for learning and teaching the gospel, they those other members don't appreciate Christ like they appreciate Christ.

MALARKY!

Thanks for the apology, but none needed!

But I do think you are missing the point I am making.

Yes, I have acknowledged that the Prophets are needed to carry Heavenly Fathers' word, but they don't deserve the same adoration as Heavenly Father. I have heard talks where only Heaven Father was spoken about and not ONE mention of a prophet. Those are the talks that give me the most inspiration, not talks about a recollection of a martyrdom. That is history and I can read that online or e gads go to the jail and read the story myself.

My biggest thing is that Joseph, Brigham - Gordon B. Hinckley should not be given the same type of love, adoration, and respect as we do our Heavenly Father, and don't put them as his equal because they are not.

I don't worship Joseph Smith, I worship Heavenly Father.

Name one single member of the Church that worships Joseph Smith.

Go ahead. I'll wait.

Name one single member of the Church that 'loves, adores, and respects' Brigham Young and Gordon B. Hinckley the same as Heavenly Father.

Go on. I'm waiting.

You pretend to understand the private thoughts of others and ascribe motives to their behavior. That's a crock.