Does sin reduce one's potential?

[splash]

Do you think sin reduces potential?

Edited December 16, 2011 by Pegasus_

[NeuroTypical]

Can it? Sure. My BIL destroyed his brain and health with drug abuse as a young teen. Not sure how bright or able he would have been otherwise, but probably brighter and more able than the mentally impaired chronic-health-conditioned sad case he is today.

[pam]

I think it reduces potential if not repented of. But if truly repented the atonement takes over and one can reach their full potential.

[Dravin]

Do you think sin reduces potential? This is excluding unforgiveable sins.

I'm operating under the assumption that such sin is fully repented of in this life That the discussion is if person A and person B both attain exaltation will person A or person B have a higher potential within that sphere? Because clearly living life as an unrepentant adulterer, while not an unforgivable sin, will quite obviously reduce your potential (unless you subscribe to a fluid kingdom model of the next life, and even then we can say it would slow it).

My opinion is no, sin fully repented of does not ultimately reduce our potential, but I think it can most certainly retard one's progress over the span of this life. One scripture to consider though is:

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

The footnotes link to scriptures where it sounds like it's talking about a division between kingdoms, unless someone comes up with some authoritative commentary on it I'm inclined to parse it as such.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Dravin

[Dove]

Do you think sin reduces potential? This is excluding unforgiveable sins. I disagree and am debating another Church Member about this on a different site.

Isn't the ultimate goal of Church Members to eternally dwell with God in the Celestial Kingdom? Is that not also our ultimate potential?

We are all sinners and in need of the Atonement.

I think if we have properly repented we can still reach our ultimate potential of the Celestial Kindgom.

~~~

I appreciate all opinions and views : )

Hello, Pegasus, and Welcome!

Thank you for starting this thread~

I agree with your last line, that if we have properly repented we can still reach our ultimate potential of the Celestial Kingdom....Yet, if I'm correct, even the celestial kingdom has three different levels in itself. as do the two other kingdoms.

I get a little haunted about exaltation, though....I've been married to a wonderful man of another faith for almost 6 years now. I love him dearly, as he does me. If I read the Doctrine and Covenants correctly, if we never marry in the temple in this life, our marriage will not be honored in the spirit world. (D&C 132 15-17). I defend my decision to marry him by saying that our coming together seemed very inspired/orchestrated. Still, it haunts me, as I've cast my eternal fate into the hands of a beautiful man who doesn't believe as I do and, for the six years of our marriage, really has no interest/desire/belief to change. No degree of my repenting can change what I chose to do in marrying outside of the temple six years ago.

So, what do I do now? Divorce him? Absolutely not! IMO...It is mine to keep the promises I made in our civil marriage by loving, supporting and serving my wonderful spouse, till death do us part.

I've learned a great deal wrestling with this. To love my husband regardless. To honor and support his sincere efforts to come to God in the ways he believes and knows. He is quite a Christlike christian. To honor his agency to reject my belief system.

One experience I had with this was about a year or two ago. I was fervently praying for his heart to change and to accept my LDS faith. Wouldn't you know, the next day a friend of ours invited us to her church (non-denominational christian) to a baptism. My husband lit up and got so excited about going. It showed me where his heart was. It was my answer to prayer to not pressure him to convert to save my hide in the hereafter.

So, I'm learning to let go and let God, to leave this in His hands. I do want to eventually attend the temple again~

I believe the road to exaltation isn't about competition; i.e. who's keeping the commandments the best/better than everyone else. To me, it's about loving and helping; ourselves and others. When I say "love," to me that's truly wanting the best for everybody, not just ourselves, truly wanting to support others in their quest to go home.

I also believe the road to exaltation can be marked by a great deal of trial, tribulation and sacrifice. (D&C 58: 2-4) When I look at this from a perspective of knowing I'm safe, regardless of what happens, if I am following God's will for me, I can be grateful for the opposition, as it teaches me so much. It shows me what is really important and/or of value, what it is I really want, humility in coming to understand my relationship to God and how to seek Him, and so many other things. I can't judge the seeming consequences a person might experience by choosing to sin. I look at it as perhaps exactly what that person needed for their own eternal welfare, learning and growth. Rather than God punishing him/her out of being angry or put out.

I'm learning to put my trust in God for my eternal welfare. This means following Him the best I can, regardless of whether exaltation is still available to me, or not.

[Justice]

I agree with the comments so far. Repentance is what activates the atonement in our lives. There are no sins that are unforgivable if repented of. I believe the unforgivable sin is "denying the Holy Ghost" which is another way of saying "refusing to repent." If you believe there is a sin that cannot be forgiven if repented of then you limit the power of the atonement, which is infinite and eternal, since repentance is the condition for it's application.

Doctrine & Covenants 19:

4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.

5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand.

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.

8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the commandments which you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., in my name;

14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them;

15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.

[Guest gopecon]

There are two ways that this can be taken.

1) Can sinners repent and be forgiven? Yes, and that forgiveness means that they can be exalted just as the most righteous among us. I don't think that too many here would disagree with this.

2) Does a sin committed while we are young affect how we turn out at the end of our life (the total knowledge and spirituality that we have, if that is quantifiable)? In other words, is it better to have never messed up than to have messed up and been forgiven? Vort has a statement at the bottom of his posts that says it quite well - "As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are!"

[Blackmarch]

Do you think sin reduces potential? This is excluding unforgiveable sins. I disagree and am debating another Church Member about this on a different site.

Isn't the ultimate goal of Church Members to eternally dwell with God in the Celestial Kingdom? Is that not also our ultimate potential?

We are all sinners and in need of the Atonement.

I think if we have properly repented we can still reach our ultimate potential of the Celestial Kindgom.

~~~

I appreciate all opinions and views : )

Not in by itself. however it's possible one's personality may so change that they would not seek out all the blessings and progression that would be available.

[NeuroTypical]

It doesn't matter how fully my BIL repents of his past misdeeds - he'll spend the rest of his life with serious brain problems and chronic health issues.

From an eternal perspective, absolutely repentence brings a complete removal of sin and restores one's full potential. From a mortal earthly perspective - no really - you can screw yourself and others up so seriously, that you'll bear the burden for your entire life.

Repentence does not always mean removal of consequences, or restoration of full potential.

Another example: It doesn't matter how great you are with kids - if you're a repentant child abuser - you will never reach your full potential with kids in our church. You'll just have to go through life outside of leadership positions or youth-related callings.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think it reduces potential if not repented of. But if truly repented the atonement takes over and one can reach their full potential.

I agree. Pam, you are smart!

[RMGuy]

Not to be a nit-picker, but here I go picking nits.

I think a lot of this would depend on how you choose to define potential and how you choose to define sin.

For example from the church perspective and as other have illustrated above then clearly our ultimate potential is to become as God is. Anything that keeps us from that (which sin does by definition) of course minimizes our potential. While nit-picky I think it is important that we acknowledge that how we frame those definitions may influence the answer to the question.

For example, there have been many individuals that have "sinned" in the LDS definition of that word. Remember for us a WoW violation is a sin, but is not the case for most of the rest of the world including quite a few religious individuals. In that context it might be difficult to generate support for your thesis that Mother Teresa didn't accomplish her potential here on earth because she occasionally enjoyed a glass of wine. Note, she never repented of it, because in her world view/knowledge, it wasn't a sin to begin with. Most Catholics would probably find the theory that she won't reach her potential in heaven because of it bordering on blasphemous.

That is perhaps an extreme example, but I think we need to be careful of what we mean by sin and potential. The nine year old that breaks her sisters doll, then lies to her parents about doing it may very well forget all about that event by the time she reaches adulthood, so too may her sisters and parents. Yet it is a double sin. She maliciously destroyed another’s property, she lied about it, and she never repented of it. Do you think it is going to stop her from becoming a world renowned violist? Will it stop her from being a good wife and mother? Will it keep her from exhalation? I guess the absolutists may say yes, but if that is the case then I would posit that heaven might be a very lonely place.

Clearly, I think even an agnostic or atheist would agree that a murder limits his/her progression both on this mortal realm, and in any post mortal life should it exist. The same could be said of many “sins”….clearly no one trusts a chronic liar for example.

So I think that the answer depends in part on how you define your question, and if you are looking for absolute truth, I would guess that the reality lies somewhere between the extremes.

-RM

[RescueMom]

Yes, if the person has truly repented they can reach the highest level of the CK.

I have examples:

Paul the Apostle

Alma the Younger

And I highly doubt that Alma the Younger hadn't been taught the gospel, Alma the Older doesn't strike me as the type of Father that didn't teach his children the gospel.

I also think that it mocks the Atonement to say sinners can't reach the CK.

[splash]

RMGuy- I agree details and defintions matter!

RescueMom- Alma the Younger and Paul the Apostle are great examples!

Thanks to everyone for opinions, thoughts, scriptures, details and new ways of analysis.

I think we are born with our potential. Whether we achieve it or not is up to us. You can still reach your potential if you make mistakes. Someone that dropped out of high school can still later become a doctor. Someone that was a drunk can repent and later be called to be a bishop (know of a case where that happened). Did the potential change? No. Can someone delay until the opportunity becomes no longer possible in this life? Yes. Are we destined to do certain things in this life? I don't know. If we procrastinated too far in this life, will we do it in the hereafter? I don't know.

I like this quote:

“The heavens will not be filled with those who never made mistakes but with those who recognized that they were off course and who corrected their ways to get back in the light of gospel truth.”

― Dieter F. Uchtdorf

Edited December 15, 2011 by Pegasus_

[splash]

There are two ways that this can be taken.

2) Does a sin committed while we are young affect how we turn out at the end of our life (the total knowledge and spirituality that we have, if that is quantifiable)? In other words, is it better to have never messed up than to have messed up and been forgiven? Vort has a statement at the bottom of his posts that says it quite well - "As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are!"

I agree sin does change us. But then can repentance and obedience change the negative change(s) into a positive one(s)? These quotes (with some scripture refrences) I love remind me of Vort's statement but with essential additions:

"Every incorrect choice we make, every sin we commit is a violation of eternal law. That violation brings negative results we generally soon recognize. There are also other consequences of our acts of which we may not be conscious. They are nonetheless real. They can have a tremendous effect on the quality of our life here and most certainly will powerfully affect it hereafter. We can do nothing of ourselves to satisfy the demands of justice for a broken eternal law. Yet, unless the demands of justice are paid, each of us will suffer endless negative consequences.

"Only the life, teachings, and particularly the atonement of Jesus Christ can release us from this otherwise impossible predicament. Each of us has made mistakes, large or small, which if unresolved will keep us from the presence of God. For this reason, the atonement of Jesus Christ is the single most significant event that ever has or ever will occur. This selfless act of infinite consequence, performed by a single glorified personage, has eternal impact in the life of every son and daughter of our Father in Heaven—without exception. It shatters the bonds of death. It justifies our finally being judged by the Master. It can prevent an eternity under the control of the devil. It opens the gates to exaltation and eternal life for all who qualify for forgiveness through repentance and obedience."

Richard G. Scott

Edited December 16, 2011 by Pegasus_

[Traveler]

Do you think sin reduces potential? This is excluding unforgiveable sins. I disagree and am debating another Church Member about this on a different site.

Isn't the ultimate goal of Church Members to eternally dwell with God in the Celestial Kingdom? Is that not also our ultimate potential?

We are all sinners and in need of the Atonement.

I think if we have properly repented we can still reach our ultimate potential of the Celestial Kindgom.

~~~

I appreciate all opinions and views : )

I will give a story about potential. This is a story about two missionaries far from home in a foreign country. Many of us that have served missions are aware of mission rules and the importance of keep these rules as we serve -- thus this is a story about missionary potential and mission rules.

Two missionaries – one a very senior missionary and a new “greenie” were walking together on a brisk wintery day. As they journeyed they were discussing scriptures and the honor to serve the people of this far away land. As they walked they came to a stream with no bridge. The water was deep and cold and they determined that they must find a better place to cross.

As they walked along they came to a wide shallow place in the river where they thought to cross. They thought that they would walk through the stream by removing their shoes and socks and thus endure a bit of cold but to keep from getting their shoes and socks wet. As they began to remove their shoes they noticed a beautiful young lady (their age) crying by the stream. They asked her why she cried and she responded that she needed to cross but had no means to do so.

Without a word the senior elder handed the beautiful girl his shoes – picked her up and started across the river much to the amazement of the greenie who followed. As they all crossed the greenie noticed the girl snuggle cuddling in the arms of the senior elder very much enjoying being so close to him. When the other side was reached the senior elder put down the girl that thanked him and quickly left.

The two missionaries put on their shoes and socks and continued their journey, but the greenie began to be troubled by the senior missionary breaking mission rules. The more they continued their journey the more concerned the greenie became – and the more he wondered why the senior missionary was not feeling guilty or saying anything about breaking mission rules.

Finely the greenie could not stand it anymore and lashed out towards his senior companion for breaking mission rules and ruining the spirit and their potential as missionaries. In surprise the senior missionary ask concerning the breaking of what mission rule? To which the greenie responded – the arm’s length rule with the opposite sex rule. The older missionary asked – really? When did I break that rule? The younger missionary could not believe it – When you carried that girl across the river you dumb cluck – what rule breaking do you thing? Responded the greenie.

Oh that girl, responded the senior missionary. When I put her down after we crossed the river – I forgot all about it and have been thinking about some scriptures in the Book of Mormon. Apparently when I put her down and forgot – you picked her up and have been carrying her ever since.

Moral of this story – those that believe the worth and value of the souls of others are diminished by their repented sins – are the greater diminished and their thoughts limit their souls more so than the sin ever did with the repentant person.

The Traveler

[Guest gopecon]

Pegasus I agree that repentance enables us to be cleansed from our sins. As I said in my original post, I don't think that many people here would dispute that. Once we are clean, our eternal potential is the same as someone who has not committed the same sin that we were cleansed of.

In mortality though, that is not always the case. Our sins affect our lives, some more so than others. A drunk can certainly repent and become a bishop. What if we were foreordained to be a bishop of X Ward in our 30's, but for some reason we are not worthy of the calling when it would have come. If we are spiritually inactive we lose time that we could have used for spiritual growth. Is there growth that comes from repentance? Sure, but there is also growth that comes from obedience. To be a spiritual giant like Pres. Monson generally takes a lifetime of service and obedience. Alma the Younger is the exception, not the rule (not that it wouldn't have been better for him to serve dilligently from the beginning that to need an angel to straighten him out). FWIW I don't believe that Paul the Apostle was a terrible sinner before his conversion. He was a Pharisee who was devoted to following the law of Moses. His persecution of Christians was wrong, but I believe that he was doing what he thought was right based on the knowledge that he had.

[Guest gopecon]

"Moral of this story – those that believe the worth and value of the souls of others are diminished by their repented sins – are the greater diminished and their thoughts limit their souls more so than the sin ever did with the repentant person.

The Traveler"

This thread is not about the worth and value of souls, but about souls reaching their potential. It's a nice straw man, but a straw man nonetheless. I'd also say that no one here is condemning people for sinning - we have all done it. The more and bigger sins we commit, the more righteousness and good we may be missing out on in our lives, whether or not we eventually repent and are forgiven.

[Traveler]

"Moral of this story – those that believe the worth and value of the souls of others are diminished by their repented sins – are the greater diminished and their thoughts limit their souls more so than the sin ever did with the repentant person.

The Traveler"

This thread is not about the worth and value of souls, but about souls reaching their potential. It's a nice straw man, but a straw man nonetheless. I'd also say that no one here is condemning people for sinning - we have all done it. The more and bigger sins we commit, the more righteousness and good we may be missing out on in our lives, whether or not we eventually repent and are forgiven.

Hmmmmm - And so I must apologize – All this time I was thinking potential and worth or value are fundamentally related.

The Traveler

[splash]

Pegasus I agree that repentance enables us to be cleansed from our sins. As I said in my original post, I don't think that many people here would dispute that. Once we are clean, our eternal potential is the same as someone who has not committed the same sin that we were cleansed of.

In mortality though, that is not always the case. Our sins affect our lives, some more so than others. A drunk can certainly repent and become a bishop. What if we were foreordained to be a bishop of X Ward in our 30's, but for some reason we are not worthy of the calling when it would have come. If we are spiritually inactive we lose time that we could have used for spiritual growth. Is there growth that comes from repentance? Sure, but there is also growth that comes from obedience. To be a spiritual giant like Pres. Monson generally takes a lifetime of service and obedience. Alma the Younger is the exception, not the rule (not that it wouldn't have been better for him to serve dilligently from the beginning that to need an angel to straighten him out). FWIW I don't believe that Paul the Apostle was a terrible sinner before his conversion. He was a Pharisee who was devoted to following the law of Moses. His persecution of Christians was wrong, but I believe that he was doing what he thought was right based on the knowledge that he had.

I agree sins affect our lives, some more than others. Some mistakes can affect our whole mortal lives, such as the examples Loudmouth_Mormon

gave. I agree we can lose spiritual growth. I agree growth comes from obedience. But we don't know how sins will exactly effect everyones life. We do not know how everyones life will turn out. We don't often know what opportunities might have been missed or will be. Nor do we know the seriousness of the opportunities missed. We don't know if someone who made this or that serious mistake(s) has just as strong of a testimony as someone who hadn't made that same mistake. The one who made this mistake could have a stronger testimony than the one that did not make the mistake. The one who made the mistake could be living a better life than someone who never made that particular mistake or vice versa. We don't know. Mistakes delay our progression but we can still later progress.

The more and bigger sins we commit, the more righteousness and good we may be missing out on in our lives, whether or not we eventually repent and are forgiven.

Yes, I agree. But news flash reminder: noone in this life is perfect. Everyone in this life misses out on some righteousness and goodness. We would not be here if we were already perfect. If we were already perfect, we would not miss out on a speck of goodness or righteousness. If we were perfect we would not be here. If we were perfect, there would be no need for the Atonement. We don't know what righteousness or goodness everyone may be missing out on as a result of their sins. Nor do we always know what goodness or righteousness we may be missing out on from our sins. I don't think we should speculate or judge on what righteousness and goodness someone else may have missed. We should worry about our own missed opportunities.

The statement of Alma the Younger being a exception, not a rule is a opinion. I disagree, also a opinion. Yes, we are not all visited by angels and stuck as if dead. Alma the Younger's story is a example for all of us. We all make mistakes in this life and are all imperfect. We are all in need of the Atonement. As with Alma the Younger, many people can become new people and become converted or re-coverted through the mercy of Jesus Christ. How are those who have made serious mistakes, repent then continue on in obedience exceptions?

The repentance process that Alma the Younger went through is the same process we must go through.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Pegasus_

[RMGuy]

I liked the travelers story, and wonder on reflection if the senior companion in the illustration was even breaking rules. I think much of what we think of or percieve as sin, really isn't and will only hinder our progress or progression if we let it do so.

-RM

[splash]

Moral of this story – those that believe the worth and value of the souls of others are diminished by their repented sins – are the greater diminished and their thoughts limit their souls more so than the sin ever did with the repentant person.

The Traveler

Right on to that moral! Or, if you don't think its a moral- right on to that statement!

Edited December 14, 2011 by Pegasus_

[Guest gopecon]

Hmmmmm - And so I must apologize – All this time I was thinking potential and worth or value are fundamentally related.

The Traveler

Worth and Value are about what God would do for us - send his Son to suffer and die. The worth of souls is great in the sight of God. Each soul is precious and valuable to the Father who created them.

Potential (while related) is about what we can become. In the next life our potential is to become perfectly clean through the benefits of the Atonement. In this life potential is about what we make of our time here. You may have more potential than I do, it is different for us all. That potential can change based on the decisions we make through our life.

[splash]

Worth and Value are about what God would do for us - send his Son to suffer and die. The worth of souls is great in the sight of God. Each soul is precious and valuable to the Father who created them.

Potential (while related) is about what we can become. In the next life our potential is to become perfectly clean through the benefits of the Atonement. In this life potential is about what we make of our time here. You may have more potential than I do, it is different for us all. That potential can change based on the decisions we make through our life.

Thanks gopecon! I agree. I speculate everyone has equal potential but perhaps in different areas.

Another quote I like (that I think relates):

"We sometimes confuse sin with sinner, and we condemn too quickly and with too little compassion. We know from modern revelation that ‘the worth of souls is great in the sight of God.’ We cannot gauge the worth of another soul any more than we can measure the span of the universe.”

― Dieter F. Uchtdorf

Edited December 14, 2011 by Pegasus_

[Guest gopecon]

"I agree sins affect our lives, some more than others. Some mistakes can affect our whole mortal lives, such as the example Loudmouth_Mormon gave. I agree we can lose spiritual growth. I agree growth comes from obedience. But we don't know how sins will affect everyones life. We do not know how everyones life will turn out. We don't often know what opportunities might have been missed or will be. Nor do we know the seriousness of the opportunities missed. We don't know if someone who made this or that serious mistake(s) has just as strong of a testimony as someone who hadn't made that same mistake. The one who made this mistake could have a stronger testimony than the one that did not make the mistake. The one who made the mistake could be living a better life than someone who never made that particular mistake or vice versa. We don't know. Mistakes delay our progression but we can still later progress." - Pegasus

Pegasus, I'm not sure that we disagree much at all here, although you seem to be rebutting my statement. You seem to be saying that because we don't know something (how our sins affect our future and others lives and what our Earthly potential is), that we can't acknowledge that they do affect us. We don't have to know all of the negative effects of something to realize that the consequences are real.

Regarding Alma the Younger being an exception, it may be my opinion, but how many other prophets were once actively fighting against the church? The list shrinks considerably when you also consider that Alma was taught the Gospel by his father. Very few people (if there are any others) were taught the truth, fought against the church, and later repented to lead the church. Alma might be the only one. I'd call that an exceptional situation. You are of course free to disagree, but to deride it as mere opinion...Of course we all have to repent like Alma did, but few here go as low and then soar as high as he did.

FWIW, I completely agree with Elder Scott's statement that you provided. I don't think that anything I have written indicates otherwise.

Edited December 14, 2011 by gopecon

[splash]

The worth of souls is great in the sight of God. Each soul is precious and valuable to the Father who created them.

I sure agree with that!! Thanks for sharing that... or shall I say reminding us of that wonderful D&C scripture.

Potential (while related) is about what we can become. In the next life our potential is to become perfectly clean through the benefits of the Atonement. In this life potential is about what we make of our time here. You may have more potential than I do, it is different for us all. That potential can change based on the decisions we make through our life

I appreciate your words causing me to think about potential in a different way.

I agree whether we live up to our potential in this life does depends on our choices. I am going to add the word goal. There are times we make a mistake, repent and are able get back on course to reach the goal/potential. The mistake may delay the goal/potential but the goal can still be met. I have experienced this in my own life. That is not always the case. Othertimes, mistakes cause us to miss the potential/goal. We can repent, yes, but some opportunities (whether small or large) are lost forever. I have also experienced this in my life. I bet everyone can relate to both cases in some degree. The more serious the mistake, the more risk. Consequences vary for mistakes. But, even with serious sins sometimes you can repent and reach the goal/potential. Usually there is a delay but it may still be possible. Other times- no, not possible. Depends on details, circumstance, what Bishop says if he was involved, etc. of course. There are so many goals/potentials in this life- educational, spiritual, physical, mental, emotional, etc.

------

I see clearly how you meant Alma the Younger was an exception now and agree.

I am not saying we can't acknowledge that sins affect us. I apologize for not being clear. I am saying we should not judge and tell others how their sins are going to effect them. Yes, there are consequences but we don't know the exact consequences or how someones life will turn out.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Pegasus_