Lord's Prayer

[dahlia]

I've been feasting on 'The Tudors' all day and as Henry considers the tenets of his new church, it dawned on me that I have not heard the Lord's Prayer said or referred to by LDS. Is it not part of prayer in the Church? Can you say it if you wish, or is it frowned upon? Since there is no reference to the trinity, it seems it would be okay.

[Guest]

I've been feasting on 'The Tudors' all day and as Henry considers the tenets of his new church, it dawned on me that I have not heard the Lord's Prayer said or referred to by LDS. Is it not part of prayer in the Church? Can you say it if you wish, or is it frowned upon? Since there is no reference to the trinity, it seems it would be okay.

Of course it's referred to by LDS. We study the NT a lot - hence, we go through both Matthew 6 and Luke 11. It is the template by which we base all our prayers. It is even taught in Primary. We learned it in November (or was it October).

Do we have to say the prayer exactly as it is written in the Bible? No. I mean, you can if you want - it's not frowned upon. But, we are taught to say our prayers according to what we feel at the time, so, we don't usually say a prayer following Jesus' text word for word. Our prayers are more personalized.

And just to note. There is no direct reference to the Trinity in the Bible. The Trinity is an interpretation of several passages in the Bible just like the Godhead is an interpretation of those same passages. So, if you see the word God in the Bible it can be God of the Trinity or God of the Godhead according to your interpretation.

Edited December 29, 2011 by anatess

[jayanna]

The Lord's prayer was taught to my kids in primary, and I think we did an FHE on it too. It is a perfect example of prayer. I have had a lesson on it in RS, it was mainly on our sins being forgiven as we forgive those who trespass against us.

[Shelly200]

Being Catholic I love the Lord's Prayer (or the Our Father, as most Catholics call it)! And, ironically, I also love The Tudors and all things about Tudor history... go figure.

I wouldn't think the prayer would be frowned upon since it is in Scripture, but I always assumed that any non-liturgical churches weren't too crazy about already-written prayers - when I was SBC we knew the Lord's Prayer by heart, but never recited it in church, because all of our prayers were spontaneous. I usually just used it as a fall back if I needed to pray but couldn't think of anything to say... now I say it all the time. I think it's just personal preference.

[dahlia]

Being Catholic I love the Lord's Prayer (or the Our Father, as most Catholics call it)

As a former Catholic, I had to think for a minute to remember what other people called the 'Our Father.'

[Guest]

As a former Catholic, I had to think for a minute to remember what other people called the 'Our Father.'

I'm thinking and thinking and I can't, for the life of me, remember if there is an official name for "Glory be..."!

[Guest gopecon]

The Lord's Prayer is a great, even perfect, model for prayer. But that is what it is, a model. Unfortunately, for many churches it has become a form of vain repetition that the Lord cautioned against. It is repeated over and over and loses the meaning. It is not a true prayer or communication with our Father when it is used this way. There are only a couple of prayers/ordinances in the Church that are repeated word for word.

I had a seminary teacher who discussed this with my class many years ago. The conclusion that we came to was that as long as we truly meant what was said, then there is no problem with using all or parts of the Lord's Prayer in our personal prayers.

[Guest]

I've actually pondered on the Lord's Prayer lately. My LDS friend pointed out to me (and I can't remember if this came to her, or it was something she read) the part that says, "Give us this day our daily bread." Both our husbands are underemployed, and it was a reminder that we are being provided for day by day and should be grateful, even as our futures are uncertain. She also pointed out that, as the Israelites, being dependent on Heavenly Father for our needs day by day keeps us humble and grateful to Him. Sometimes when we have much more than we need, it's easy to forget where it came from.

Sorry if that's not what you're looking for. I just wanted to contribute that it is something we love and talk about, even if we don't recite it.

[bytebear]

I always felt LDS avoid using the Lord's prayer because word-for-word prayers are reserved for ordinances (baptism prayer, sacrament prayer, etc.) Since there is no ordinance associated with the Lord's Prayer it isn't used in any official way. It is an example of prayer, but not a ritualistic prayer.

[Blackmarch]

I've been feasting on 'The Tudors' all day and as Henry considers the tenets of his new church, it dawned on me that I have not heard the Lord's Prayer said or referred to by LDS. Is it not part of prayer in the Church? Can you say it if you wish, or is it frowned upon? Since there is no reference to the trinity, it seems it would be okay.

I love the prayer that Christ gives that is recorded in scripture.

Actually i've heard it quite often used (or significant parts of it used) in prayers by prominent LDS. I think its a very powerful prayer. I think it sometimes gets lumped into the sermon on the mount, or if there is a lesson on how to pray.

Also as the LDS have a lot of materiel that contains doctrine, as well as explanation of doctrine for explaining things taht between that and how local members are inclined its possible to go quite some time without hearing about a specific point.

THe trick is to personalise it and not make it just something you say out of habit or repetition. We area taught to communicate with our father in heaven not just speak to him only. If the Lords prayer is or portion thereof is what you truly feel and best describes what is in your heart, then by all means use it.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Blackmarch

[Martain]

Commonsensemedia has the following to say about the show Trudors

What parents need to know

Parents need to know that this pay-cable series has plenty of graphic sex and violence. Some of the sex is particularly explicit and only barely hides actual penetration. For example, one scene shows a young man thrusting vigorously into a young woman from behind when her father bursts into the room (he later hits her across the face, bloodying her nose). Several scenes show topless women and views of naked men from behind. There are also violent scenes of murder, and men are wounded in fights and athletic events. The plot revolves around complicated political intrigue and is neck-deep in deception, treason, affairs, and bargaining with people's lives. Women are largely background figures.

Why is someone who designates themselves as a Latter-day saint watching something so clearly contrary to what we know to be acceptable entertainment?

[beefche]

Commonsensemedia has the following to say about the show Trudors

Why is someone who designates themselves as a Latter-day saint watching something so clearly contrary to what we know to be acceptable entertainment?

Why is someone who designates themselves as a Latter-day saint casting judgments on others for how they interpret doctrine and principles for herself?

Haven't we gone over and over on this site about casting stones at other people for not maintaining your own standards?

[Blackmarch]

Ummmmmmm how did we go from the lords prayer to the last couple posts?

[dahlia]

Commonsensemedia has the following to say about the show Trudors

Why is someone who designates themselves as a Latter-day saint watching something so clearly contrary to what we know to be acceptable entertainment?

Oh for crying out loud. I am 58 yrs old, have an interest and educational background in Tudor history. Everything I watch doesn't have to be meant for children. I hate to tell you, but Tudor England was a violent place; the ideas about sex were more restrictive than ours in some ways and more open in others. It's not porn. It's also not exactly historically accurate, but I'll live.

[RMGuy]

What parents need to know

Parents need to know that this pay-cable series has plenty of graphic sex and violence. Some of the sex is particularly explicit and only barely hides actual penetration. For example, one scene shows a young man thrusting vigorously into a young woman from behind when her father bursts into the room (he later hits her across the face, bloodying her nose). Several scenes show topless women and views of naked men from behind. There are also violent scenes of murder, and men are wounded in fights and athletic events. The plot revolves around complicated political intrigue and is neck-deep in deception, treason, affairs, and bargaining with people's lives. Women are largely background figures.

So in otherwords it is an accurate depiction of Tudor life? I guess we could always white wash the history.....it was all about people in cool timber frame houses that went to church, followed the monarch, and tended their flocks......I guess it isn't true, but it would be faith promoting.

-RM

[Vort]

People are free to watch what they like. I may approve or disapprove, but if I'm not their bishop, I will withhold personal spiritual judgment.

That said, the fact that it's "an accurate depiction" is hardly a winning justification for filling one's mind with garbage that, once inside, will never be removed. Based on the description given, I would agree that I would never knowingly allow such filth in my house. Reminds me somewhat of a content review I read of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. That people might watch such horror and find entertainment in it leaves me baffled.

[Guest]

People are free to watch what they like. I may approve or disapprove, but if I'm not their bishop, I will withhold personal spiritual judgment.

That said, the fact that it's "an accurate depiction" is hardly a winning justification for filling one's mind with garbage that, once inside, will never be removed. Based on the description given, I would agree that I would never knowingly allow such filth in my house. Reminds me somewhat of a content review I read of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. That people might watch such horror and find entertainment in it leaves me baffled.

I agree with you Vort on the principle. I agree with Beefche on the failed delivery. There are better ways to remind our brothers and sisters about the counsel of the prophets.

[Guest]

So in otherwords it is an accurate depiction of Tudor life? I guess we could always white wash the history.....it was all about people in cool timber frame houses that went to church, followed the monarch, and tended their flocks......I guess it isn't true, but it would be faith promoting.

-RM

Yes, just like the depiction of the Garden of Eden in the Temple is an accurate depiction of the LDS view on the accounts of Genesis. Both required the presence of naked people. One is vulgar, the other is spiritual.

So, if one's purpose is to be historically accurate in the portrayal of Tudor life, one can do so without the need to be vulgar to get the point across. And no, they won't have to build a set of timber frame houses...

Did we sufficiently hijack the thread yet?

[Daybreak79]

Anatess, even though I am not a "moderator" I will declare this thread officially hijacked.

[dahlia]

Just for those who haven't seen the series, there is a lot more about religion (we are talking about Henry VIII here), politics, life at court, etc. than there is about sex.

Good people died under Henry, good servants of the Lord and good servants of the King. I am interested in their stories and appreciate a modern approach to them. I wouldn't call a show 'filth' which only has isolated sexual content, which one can skip over if watching via Netflix or just close one's eyes if watching on TV. There is so much more to this show than the sex. If I were teaching Tudor history and all my students were watching this series and questioning me about it, should I not watch the show because I'm LDS? I don't understand this need to be like 10 yr olds. Why does 'adult-themed' have to mean 'unsuitable for LDS'?

This should probably be the end of the thread.

[Vort]

Good people died under Henry, good servants of the Lord and good servants of the King. I am interested in their stories and appreciate a modern approach to them. I wouldn't call a show 'filth' which only has isolated sexual content, which one can skip over if watching via Netflix or just close one's eyes if watching on TV.

Others might. The parable of the dog poop brownies comes to mind...after all, there's only a little bit of dog poop in them.

There is so much more to this show than the sex.

Of course there is. So then, am I good to read Playboy for the articles?

If I were teaching Tudor history and all my students were watching this series and questioning me about it, should I not watch the show because I'm LDS?

Might be worth telling your students that a film or stage dramatization may not be the most accurate or complete way to learn about a historical period.

I don't understand this need to be like 10 yr olds. Why does 'adult-themed' have to mean 'unsuitable for LDS'?

I protect my ten-year-old from the vices of the world. I shield her from the ugliness and encourage her to focus on the beautiful. Whorehouses are real, but I don't take my ten-year-old there. I believe that my own soul is as valuable as that of a ten-year-old.

I could indulge myself in pornographies of sex and violence, if I chose to do so. And I could well rationalize my decision as bravely "looking at things as they really are". But I have been warned of the horrific consequences of sampling pornography, and have actually seen in played out in the lives of acquaintances. So I avoid it as I would a deadly poison. If this makes me the emotional equivalent of a ten-year-old, so be it.

[Tyler90AZ]

Just for those who haven't seen the series, there is a lot more about religion (we are talking about Henry VIII here), politics, life at court, etc. than there is about sex.

Good people died under Henry, good servants of the Lord and good servants of the King. I am interested in their stories and appreciate a modern approach to them. I wouldn't call a show 'filth' which only has isolated sexual content, which one can skip over if watching via Netflix or just close one's eyes if watching on TV. There is so much more to this show than the sex. If I were teaching Tudor history and all my students were watching this series and questioning me about it, should I not watch the show because I'm LDS? I don't understand this need to be like 10 yr olds. Why does 'adult-themed' have to mean 'unsuitable for LDS'?

This should probably be the end of the thread.

I agree with Dahlia....If a show is 98% educational and 2% sex I am watching it.... As adults we should be able to watch stuff like that without reenacting the scene. I also struggle greatly with eliminating rated r movies, as they are the best ones.

[Gramajane]

I was puzzled by someone (can't remember who said it in this topic"

that said they " said the Lords prayer when they needed to pray but couldn't think what to say."

Having questions on why they needed to pray-- if they didn't know what to say?

Even if you had a loved one that you called on the phone, just to hear their voice and let them know you loved them and were thinking of them, wouldn't you say THAT? I doubt I would just quote some scripture that didn't have specific application to what was currently going on?

I did have one time, when I got a terrible feeling that prayers were needed by someone I loved RIGHT THEN! I dropped to my knees and just asked our Heavenly Father to send help to whomever it was who needed it, and plead for protection to them (that was what I felt was needed-urgently.) and I kept praying till my feeling of the urgency dwindled.

I felt exhausted, that the prayers had been really pulling on heaven. So of course then I began phoning around to check on our kids and my family. I finally found that my youngest bro (who was an adult then too) had gone on a kind of survival trip as an assistant, to help kids at risk see that they can conquer hard things etc-- and the trips are supposed to be, and USUALLY were really really well prepared for so my sister thought everything was probably ok .

Later I found out from my brother that totally weird weather had come up that HAD put them in pretty desperate straits! It was apparently FOR them that my prayers were needed.

Yet, even in THAT case, when I didn't know exactly WHY I needed to pray, I could and did talk to God about that fact, and asked for whatever help was needed for whoever needed it.

I can't imagine just quoting something from scripture, but whatever you feel applies, does I guess?

. Other times, I have felt that just a "Help!" cry can be a prayer!

My kids told me they were annoyed when I didn't warn them, but would start suddenly praying when I had to drive in Seattle traffic (steep hills, not good signage, not being familiar with routes, older car with stick shift and crazy drivers! ) --- I do not enjoy driving anyway, but you do what you have to.

[Gramajane]

To me, as I wouldn't be a peeping tom to spying on couples in real life,

nor do I think someone would want others watching their private intimate time with their spouse

(or non spouse, even if they didn't have much virtue

I do not watch sex scenes (we fast forward or look away if in a theater that we didn't know would stoop to that in a picture that us supposed to be only PG

-- as I sure don't need or want thoughts of others in my head when I am with my dear husband. It would be like being haunted I think, and comparisons are odious!

I think maybe that might be a good time to use the Lords prayer? (to get us back on topic ;0

[Gramajane]

Ok, here is something on prayer, but a little off topic of the Lords Prayer exactly. It is a joke I heard, but it makes the point and is actually sad to me.

--- Two old guys had gone out in a borrowed boat to fish, but neither of them were experienced, but they had bought all the fishing gear and were super excited if not too bright.

One used a gaff (hand held large hook for those who don't know) to bring a fish aboard but in the fishing films he had watched, they were not in a rubber boat! BAD news! Middle of the lake, non swimmers, boat slowly sinking.

One says to the other, "Do you pray!?!"

"No", his pal replies "but as a kid I lived next to a church and sometimes they used a mike system that could be heard at our house. ---- Let me see if I can remember something!"

"I- 25, N-8, B-54...."

Yea, pitiful!!