Girls camp requirements

[RMGuy]

Recently I was having a conversation with some individuals regarding requirements for attendance at girl’s camp. One of which was that the girls must remove all body piercings except one pair of earrings prior to attendance.

I am curious as to everyone's thoughts here. Not just what you think, but why you think/believe what you do about it?

-RM

[Backroads]

I think it's a great idea.

Why?

1. My own girls' camp experiences were pretty rough n tumble. We had very strict rules about what we could and could not bring and we could only bring the bare necessities, junk food, and stuff with which to make fun crafts. There was no room for looking cute or wearing lots of jewelry.

2. I worked as a counselor at a Boy Scout camp that was also used for LDS girls' camps. It was even more rough n tumble than the ones I experienced.

3. Girls' camp has many spiritual moments. I do not believe body piercings severely affect one's spirituality, but there is something to be said for humbling one's self and taking part in the group mentality. I think the less-jewely approach is sensible especially for backwoods' camps and therefore there might be problems from the girl who wants to rebel.

[Madriglace]

We asked by the GA to only have one pair of earrings at a time ... when attending a church function this should be followed. It's all about teaching obedience.

Of course our area isn't like it was when I first went as a counselor at 15. We had a dry camp up on Mt Lemon outside of Tucson AZ. No cabins, no running water except in the cook cabin, not electricity. Those girls knew this and still they drug along hair dryers, electric rollers and all manner of stuff. Where the heck did they think they were going to plug them in ... a current bush?????? A year or so ago our girls went to a camp over near Ellensburg, WA ... they got to sleep in Teepees ... to cool.

[RMGuy]

Some of the questions that I encountered included:

1. Why are we going to hold the girls to a higher standard for girls camp than that required to attend the temple?

2. Are we going to strip search the girls to make sure that they comply. After all, it is pretty easy to tell if they have in a nose stud, but more difficult if they have a nipple pierced.

3. Are we only worried about outward manifestations? After all, many girls that probably have more severe sin problems including chastity, wow, etc. could easily attend camp and the leaders don't know. Why single these girls out?

-RM

[CookieC]

While I understand the prophet's directive to limit ourselves to one earring per ear, I'm not sure that 'enforcing' the idea at girls' camp is a good one.

In our stake, camp has proven to be a great way to fellowship less active and even some non-LDS girls. So, with this guideline in place, does that mean a young woman who is unwilling to remove her piercings but would otherwise come to camp be unwelcome?

Seems to me that camp should be more about fellowship and less about appearances.

[Backroads]

We had a dry camp up on Mt Lemon outside of Tucson AZ. No cabins, no running water except in the cook cabin, not electricity. Those girls knew this and still they drug along hair dryers, electric rollers and all manner of stuff. Where the heck did they think they were going to plug them in ... a current bush?????? A year or so ago our girls went to a camp over near Ellensburg, WA ... they got to sleep in Teepees ... to cool.

Yes. A currant bush.

Sometimes, the weekend before Girls' Week, we would buy cheap extension cords in town then entangle them in various bushes. We would also buy socket covers and put them on trees.

Sadly, we had more victims than you would think.

[Bini]

When I was fourteen I went to girls camp. I don't recall having to remove my body piercings. I attended with multiple earrings, a nose stud, tongue piercing and belly piercing. Not sure if I would have gone if they called me out on them. At that point, I was already pretty inactive but decided to go because my younger sister was going and a good friend at the time. I think CookieC made an excellent point! We don't have to remove body piercings at church, why girls camp? If there are going to be rough activities, waivers should be signed by guardians.

[Maureen]

When I was fourteen I went to girls camp. I don't recall having to remove my body piercings. I attended with multiple earrings, a nose stud, tongue piercing and belly piercing....

Wow Bini, you had all that at the tender age of 14! At that time, did you require parental permission to get those type of piercings? I remember a niece explaining to me what happens with a tongue piercing and I was shocked that she still went through with it. The process sounds very unpleasant. :)

M.

[Bini]

Wow Bini, you had all that at the tender age of 14! At that time, did you require parental permission to get those type of piercings? I remember a niece explaining to me what happens with a tongue piercing and I was shocked that she still went through with it. The process sounds very unpleasant. :)

M.

I got my piercings done in Asia and did not need parental consent. The nose stud was a cultural thing from growing up in a densely Hindu populated area. The others, trend mostly. And tongue piercings aren't painful at all. They also aren't a high-risk piercing if done properly. There's a specific place where it should be pierced. Belly and nose hurt more. But yes, piercings can cause scar tissue, even with ears.

All that said, I have removed all 23 body piercings, except for one in each earlobe :) After all, I'm not a party girl anymore, I'm a mother and I hope my examples will rub off on my daughter! .. Yeh, I know, good luck with that huh. Lol

[Blocky]

Makes me think of my sister who just got her upper ear pierced. I think if she was told to take it out before it healed she'd contemplate not going. I'd rather she go with the piercings than not go at all.

[john doe]

2. Are we going to strip search the girls to make sure that they comply. After all, it is pretty easy to tell if they have in a nose stud, but more difficult if they have a nipple pierced.

-RM

This begs the question: How often do you and (I assume) your adult friends talk about minor teen girls having nipple piercings?

[RMGuy]

This begs the question: How often do you and (I assume) your adult friends talk about minor teen girls having nipple piercings?

Does it? Thank you for the insinuation John.

Since you are so curious I will share with you that it came up as a question raised in our stake...by a parent of a daughter that has one.

The question raised though, I think is a good one. Since we are making the rule, are we going to check and enforce it, or are we only going to penalize those that are in obvious violation? Now that we know that this YW has this piercing who should we volunteer to check her as she registers?

-RM

[MarginOfError]

Does it? Thank you for the insinuation John.

Since you are so curious I will share with you that it came up as a question raised in our stake...by a parent of a daughter that has one.

The question raised though, I think is a good one. Since we are making the rule, are we going to check and enforce it, or are we only going to penalize those that are in obvious violation? Now that we know that this YW has this piercing who should we volunteer to check her as she registers?

-RM

That's easy. You assign her to check herself.

[RMGuy]

That's easy. You assign her to check herself.

Oh, I like that solution. I think that I shall recommend that to the SYWP. They can have all the girls self-report.

-RM

[MarginOfError]

Oh, I like that solution. I think that I shall recommend that to the SYWP. They can have all the girls self-report.

-RM

Why even have them report. If they come to camp, shouldn't that be their statement that they are following the requirements spelled out prior to their arrival?

[cwald]

I think the rule is ridiculous. And as RM Guy has clearly shown, I think the idea of adults policing and trying to enforce it is even more ridiculous.

And personally, I think the "commandment," if that is what we want to call it because Pres. Gordon Hinkley said it, is pretty ridiculous as well. I put it right up there with the prohibition of tea. Is this just a commandment to test one's willingness to obey? A ban on having multiple ear piercings or, god forbid, a nipple piercing, is pretty innocuous and really is no one business but the individuals, IMO.

I have no problem if the authorities of the LDS church want to enforce it for their activities --- but I just don't understand how that translates to Christ-like values. I just don't think Jesus would care about something this. That is just my opinion.

[MarginOfError]

I think the rule is ridiculous. And as RM Guy has clearly shown, I think the idea of adults policing and trying to enforce it is even more ridiculous.

And personally, I think the "commandment," if that is what we want to call it because Pres. Gordon Hinkley said it, is pretty ridiculous as well. I put it right up there with the prohibition of tea. Is this just a commandment to test one's willingness to obey? A ban on having multiple ear piercings or, god forbid, a nipple piercing, is pretty innocuous and really is no one business but the individuals, IMO.

I have no problem if the authorities of the LDS church want to enforce it for their activities --- but I just don't understand how that translates to Christ-like values. I just don't think Jesus would care about something this. That is just my opinion.

The one-piercing rule is an interpretation of the charge that we be modest* in our appearance.

* in the true meaning of modesty, not the hypersexualized meaning of modest that has been cultivated in the Church.

[cwald]

The one-piercing rule is an interpretation of the charge that we be modest* in our appearance.

...

Yeah, maybe. I'll think about that.

[Backroads]

All right, it seems the general opinion of the thread here has changed my mind on the subject. Good arguments, everyone.

I suppose I'm still naturally anti-girly girl and jewewlry when it comes to girls' camp, but I also see strict no-earrings policies are a bad idea.

[RMGuy]

Why even have them report. If they come to camp, shouldn't that be their statement that they are following the requirements spelled out prior to their arrival?

Yep! I'm recommending your solution. Then if someone comes to camp with her eyebrow pierced but she says she is good to go, then the leaders can just ignore it.

-RM

[Madriglace]

The girls need to be in camp ... and enforcing the ban for this particular camp would probably not be possible. However to teach obedience by asking that they not do this for camp is another thing. One of the things I repeat often to my SS kids is if we can't manage to be obedient in the little things how do we expect to handle the hard stuff? We need to follow the Lords teaching method ... teach correct principles and then allow them their agency. Everday of a life is a teaching moment ... we just need to use them wisely.

[RMGuy]

There seems to be a lot of wisdome in that Madriglace. Thank you.

-RM

[Magen_Avot]

My daughters have done battle with those who were entrusted to ensure these ideals of girls camp:

Confirming their identity as daughters of God.

Recognizing and cultivating the Spirit.

Keeping baptismal covenants.

Preparing for their future roles.

Instead of providing an opportunity where members and non-members would be encouraged to live the gospel at their level (where they keep their baptismal covenants) they were forced, yes FORCED, to have interviews where worthiness was established to go to camp and sign a document that stated they had never had sex and would obey their leaders and keep the commandments. Essentially as if they were taking out their endowments in the temple.

Is maintaining standards a good thing? Oh yes. To the point where not one shall be lost? That's the wrong side. My daughters knew these requirements were encouraging young women to lie about things in their lives. Now they carry that guilt too. My daughters didn't go even though they were pressed by several bully women, including the Stake leaders, to get in line with it. My girls knew it was wrong and they stood against them.

A bit after that a letter was read from the pulpit from Salt Lake that cautioned against such practices. Vindication? No. Unrighteous dominion is practiced by many and knows no gender boundaries. This is the Church of Jesus Christ. No one has the right to take it for themselves and practice priest-crafts.

We may be talking about earrings where a prophet has stated that a woman should only have two piercings, it has not been established as a COMMANDMENT.

We should not FORCE, rather, we should teach with love and long suffering, encourage them to embrace the words of the prophet. We are there to bless not hammer into submission. Leaders should start early and the youth should have a stake in the requirements.

If any of them walk away with ill feeling about these issues then the leaders have failed to lead. They have only pushed 'em down the road.

Bully for them.

Just my opinion though...