Divorce & Remarriage

[prisonchaplain]

The view of most evangelical pastors is that Christians may only seek divorce in cases of unfaithfulness or abandonment. Only in those instances should the victims be permitted to remarry. In reality, there are many couples on their second, some even their third marriage. I have no guess as to how many met what we would call the biblical standard.

What's the LDS doctrine on divorce and remarriage?

[Maureen]

Would "abuse" fall into the unfaithfulness category?

M.

[Blackmarch]

The view of most evangelical pastors is that Christians may only seek divorce in cases of unfaithfulness or abandonment. Only in those instances should the victims be permitted to remarry. In reality, there are many couples on their second, some even their third marriage. I have no guess as to how many met what we would call the biblical standard.

What's the LDS doctrine on divorce and remarriage?

Its strongly frowned upon, and is basically considered a sin if its a situation as the Lord described in the new testament, however its also understood that sometimes its necessary (dealt with on a case by case basis i would assume, when it does cross over into the bishops or stake presidents hands). Yes its bad but its worse to force a couple to abide something that neither party is willing to support any more and potentially get them into further condemnation because of that (as well as the potential physical or mental harm that one or both parties could inflict on the other).

I dont know if bishops or stake presidents are required to interview priesthood holders going through a divorce, however i doubt that the divorce alone is reason enough for that... But there may be quite a few other issues on the table that would require it.

No idea about divorces that occur at the bishops level or higher in the hierarchy of the church.

Now that im thinking about it, divorce alone would be an issue of the heart- and as long as covenants are abided by until they are annulled there wouldnt be any direct reason for any sort of disciplinary action at the legal level (unless the bishop or stake pres was inspired otherwise).

Edited March 8, 2012 by Blackmarch

[Maureen]

...What's the LDS doctrine on divorce and remarriage?

My LDS friend married an LDS man who had been divorced 3 times. He seems to be an upstanding man in his church ward and has a calling; so past marital problems can be forgiven it seems.

M.

[trubludru]

It is defintely strongly encouraged in the church that divorce should only be sought for major reasons such as adultery, abuse, desertion, etc. That being said, if a member does become divorced for a reason other than those the church does not discipline the member in anyway that I'm aware of. I have an aunt that divorced her ex while back mainly from what I know because they grew apart/didn't along with each other any more. She recently civilly remarried to a guy that had previously been married and divorced twice. They are both in good standing with the church, I'm not sure if they sought permission to get sealed or not (see below) but they both have temple recommends. Other members are likely to treat you a bit differently if they find out you've been been married and divorced multiple times though.

The only complication I'm aware of, is that if the member wants to sealed/married in the temple to a new spouse after being sealed previously to someone they have to go through a process which involves gettting approval from the First Presidency, and so I would think if the First Presidency for whatever reason feels the member is treating marriage covenants frivolously (even if they haven't commited adultery or what have you) then they would probably not grant permission for the person to be sealed to their new spouse (at least immediately).

[JudoMinja]

The official church stance on divorce is that it is wrong and should not be done, with some rare exceptions being taken into account. Someone who divorces for reasons not addressed in these exceptions who then remarries would be considered under the condemnation described in the Bible. As it concerns temple sealings- it is very difficult to get a sealing cancelation. There are cases where one remarries but is not sealed to their new spouse, because a sealing cancelation would not be granted for their first marriage. Cases like this are handled on an individual basis, and we believe that all will be set aright when Christ comes again.

There are many talks from our leaders which address the topic of divorce. Most of them explain how morally wrong we find it and urge couples to work out the problems in their marriages instead of getting divorced. In more recent years, however, several of these talks have begun to address those cases where there may be exceptions. In particular, I want to quote a talk from Dallin H. Oaks:

"There are many good Church members who have been divorced. I speak first to them. We know that many of you are innocent victims—members whose former spouses persistently betrayed sacred covenants or abandoned or refused to perform marriage responsibilities for an extended period. Members who have experienced such abuse have firsthand knowledge of circumstances worse than divorce.

When a marriage is dead and beyond hope of resuscitation, it is needful to have a means to end it. I saw examples of this in the Philippines. Two days after their temple marriage, a husband deserted his young wife and has not been heard from for over 10 years. A married woman fled and obtained a divorce in another country, but her husband, who remained behind, is still married in the eyes of the Philippine law. Since there is no provision for divorce in that country, these innocent victims of desertion have no way to end their married status and go forward with their lives.

We know that some look back on their divorces with regret at their own partial or predominant fault in the breakup. All who have been through divorce know the pain and need the healing power and hope that come from the Atonement. That healing power and that hope are there for them and also for their children.

Now I speak to married members, especially to any who may be considering divorce.

I strongly urge you and those who advise you to face up to the reality that for most marriage problems, the remedy is not divorce but repentance. Often the cause is not incompatibility but selfishness. The first step is not separation but reformation...

A couple with serious marriage problems should see their bishop. As the Lord’s judge, he will give counsel and perhaps even discipline that will lead toward healing.

Bishops do not counsel members to divorce, but they can help members with the consequences of their decisions. Under the law of the Lord, a marriage, like a human life, is a precious, living thing. If our bodies are sick, we seek to heal them. We do not give up. While there is any prospect of life, we seek healing again and again. The same should be true of our marriages, and if we seek Him, the Lord will help us and heal us.

Latter-day Saint spouses should do all within their power to preserve their marriages...

Whatever the outcome and no matter how difficult your experiences, you have the promise that you will not be denied the blessings of eternal family relationships if you love the Lord, keep His commandments, and just do the best you can." (April 2007 General Conference)

[Guest]

This is one I have some difficulty with. A dear friend was married in the temple and had 5 children. She's a good, sweet woman. Her husband cheated on her. They divorced, he and his mistress went through the repentance process, and now the two of them are married and sealed in the temple, living happily ever after. My friend is still alone. She finished raising the kids alone, and now that her kids are grown she lives alone, through no fault of her own. It's hard with my mortal myopia to understand the justice in that.

[Vort]

Her husband cheated on her. They divorced, he and his mistress went through the repentance process, and now the two of them are married and sealed in the temple, living happily ever after.

This illustrates my discomfort with the term "the repentence process". Obviously, we believe repentence to be a process instead of an event, but the phrase evokes images of a checklist of mechanical tasks -- praying the rosary, saying ten Hail Marys and five Our Fathers, abstaining from pork for a week -- to placate the God of Vengeance.

Obviously, I'm in no position to judge your friend's ex-husband. But I do not believe that such situations are easily remedied. When a man abandons his wife and children through infidelity, going through the motions of "the repentence process" alone will not heal his soul, nor will it make him worthy to stand before his Father at the last day.

[MarginOfError]

This illustrates my discomfort with the term "the repentence process". Obviously, we believe repentence to be a process instead of an event, but the phrase evokes images of a checklist of mechanical tasks -- praying the rosary, saying ten Hail Marys and five Our Fathers, abstaining from pork for a week -- to placate the God of Vengeance.

Obviously, I'm in no position to judge your friend's ex-husband. But I do not believe that such situations are easily remedied. When a man abandons his wife and children through infidelity, going through the motions of "the repentence process" alone will not heal his soul, nor will it make him worthy to stand before his Father at the last day.

But could a subsequent life of loyalty, fidelity, good works and service make him worthy?

I think the important part to remember about "the repentance process" is that the process doesn't end until we're dead. We have to forsake the sin to be forgiven, and until the possibility of doing the sin again is entirely removed, we can only technically say that we are forsaking the sin (as opposed to having forsaken it).

[mnn727]

This is one I have some difficulty with. A dear friend was married in the temple and had 5 children. She's a good, sweet woman. Her husband cheated on her. They divorced, he and his mistress went through the repentance process, and now the two of them are married and sealed in the temple, living happily ever after. My friend is still alone. She finished raising the kids alone, and now that her kids are grown she lives alone, through no fault of her own. It's hard with my mortal myopia to understand the justice in that.

Why would you have a problem with that? I am sure your friend has had the opportunity to date and thereby lead towards perhaps a 2nd marriage, whether she did actually date was her choice - no one elses.

Or are you upset that repentance is possible?

[Vort]

Why would you have a problem with that? I am sure your friend has had the opportunity to date and thereby lead towards perhaps a 2nd marriage, whether she did actually date was her choice - no one elses.

Or are you upset that repentance is possible?

Not sure what is difficult about this. Her point seems obvious to me. I take it to be that this appears to be a case of a man finding happiness and, dare we think it, possible exaltation with the very woman who committed adultery with him and destroyed his family. Since wickedness never was happiness and since leaving your wife and children for another woman is among the worst acts a man can do, how can such a course lead to eternal life? The whole situation smacks of phoniness; it's hard to believe that such repentence could be genuine, though of course that judgment is God's.

[Guest]

I'm certainly not upset that repentance is possible. I'm upset that she's spending her life suffering for his sin. I know that's part of mortality. My faith isn't shaken by it. I care about my friend, and I've seen the struggle and heartache she's endured all these years, while he rides off into the sunset with the one he was unfaithful with. That bothers me. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.

She hasn't been able to find another husband. How easy do you think that is for a mother of 5? And now she's older, in a smaller and weirder pool of men.

But sorry that repentance is possible? No. I'm sure I've transgressed against people who have been left behind to bear the hurt. I'm glad I can be forgiven that and I hope that through the Atonement, they can forgive me as well.

[Seminarysnoozer]

This is one I have some difficulty with. A dear friend was married in the temple and had 5 children. She's a good, sweet woman. Her husband cheated on her. They divorced, he and his mistress went through the repentance process, and now the two of them are married and sealed in the temple, living happily ever after. My friend is still alone. She finished raising the kids alone, and now that her kids are grown she lives alone, through no fault of her own. It's hard with my mortal myopia to understand the justice in that.

I don't see the justice in hardly anything in this life. Justice isn't supposed to be reached in this life. I think that is part of the message about those that are high shall be made low and those low shall be made high, to help us realize the lack of urgency in finding any kind of justice in this world. God's justice is exact and right, we don't have to worry one bit about that. In fact, our specific commandment is to not worry about it, to not judge others and to remain humble about what is given to us in this life. Not everyone that is married in the temple will be together as an eternal family, of course. Why is that? God will judge the worthiness of the individuals based in the covenant made and many other unknown-to-us factors. I think the "difficulty" comes with thinking that there should be some justice had in this life.

If we wish too hard for justice in this life, maybe God will require that of us. I don't want to be in that kind of debt, a debt I have no way of paying back myself. For your friend, even a chance to be married in the temple and have her children etc. is way more than she came into this world with .... what a blessing and a privilege, sounds like a positive gain to me.

[Windseeker]

Why would you have a problem with that? I am sure your friend has had the opportunity to date and thereby lead towards perhaps a 2nd marriage, whether she did actually date was her choice - no one elses.

Or are you upset that repentance is possible?

The same time I was going thru a divorce after my wife left me and our 4 kids, I spoke with an aquantance from a previous ward who's husband moved to China and married a Chinese girl leaving her with their 12 kids. She had spent her entire marriage raising them and homeschooling them and now she was alone, with no income, and scared to death.

In that case what is repentance? Isn't restitution part of the "process". How do you make up for something like that?

I'm sure she will just need to get over it and pick a new husband out of the long line of available willing men lined up outside her door.

[mnn727]

I'm upset that she's spending her life suffering for his sin. .

She stopped suffering for His sin when the divorce was final, what she did with her life after that was her choice

How easy do you think that is for a mother of 5? And now she's older, in a smaller and weirder pool of men.

There are many ways of meeting single LDS members. I met my wife through an LDS dating site, we lived over 1000 miles apart at the time back in '98 so you can see LDS dating sites have been around for quite a while now.

A woman having children while dating will just weed out the men that are shallow.

Being in a small ward/stake with few older single people is not the problem it was years ago.

[Vort]

She stopped suffering for His sin when the divorce was final, what she did with her life after that was her choice

You cannot believe this. It's like saying that you quit suffering for the sins of the guy who cut off your arms the moment the bandages were removed, or you quit suffering for the sins of your father's murderer the moment the funeral was over.

[Windseeker]

I believe in some cases divorce is the same as murder. You can't account for the amount of suffering or when it ends because it can take generations for the consequences to finaly fade away.

In the end I've had to face that fact myself. I've done my best to repent for my part in things because no one is truly blameless in my opinion. But I have a feeling as I've watched my kids suffer that there is only so much I can be forgiven for and the rest it's almost impossible to repent of.

Unlike what mnn727 might think, getting remarried doesn't make everything all better. Wish it would. Sometimes it even adds to the suffering.

[Leah]

The view of most evangelical pastors is that Christians may only seek divorce in cases of unfaithfulness or abandonment. Only in those instances should the victims be permitted to remarry. In reality, there are many couples on their second, some even their third marriage. I have no guess as to how many met what we would call the biblical standard.

What's the LDS doctrine on divorce and remarriage?

So....abuse would not be a reason? Would a wife be counseled to stay with a husband who was abusing her...or her children?

What about in situations where one spouse is an alcoholic or drug addict who makes no effort to get clean and sober?

[mnn727]

You cannot believe this. It's like saying that you quit suffering for the sins of the guy who cut off your arms the moment the bandages were removed, or you quit suffering for the sins of your father's murderer the moment the funeral was over.

So you're rejecting that we have the freedom to choose how to handle our lives?

[MarginOfError]

So you're rejecting that we have the freedom to choose how to handle our lives?

I'm with Vort on this one. Suffering doesn't stop simply because you're free to make your choices. Many of the consequences of our and other people's actions are long lasting and terrible. We do the best that we can with the hand we are dealt. Sometimes the hand just plain sucks.

What's more, having the freedom to choose how we handle our lives doesn't necessarily reduce suffering. For instance, the woman in question may have dated and pursued men in hopes of finding a companion, but repeatedly found that the available men were not suitable companions. In making a good choice to not subject herself to living with an unfit companion, she prolonged the difficulty and suffering of being a single mother.

Freedom to choose how to handle your life sometimes means choosing which form of trial and suffering you will endure.

Edited March 8, 2012 by MarginOfError

[Windseeker]

So you're rejecting that we have the freedom to choose how to handle our lives?

I'll have what he's having...

[Vort]

So you're rejecting that we have the freedom to choose how to handle our lives?

What ever gave you that idea? I am rejecting the silly and simplistic notion that other people's actions have no lingering effect on us once we cut off contact with those people. This is so obviously false on its face that I'm rather surprised there is any disagreement over it.

[JudoMinja]

So you're rejecting that we have the freedom to choose how to handle our lives?

Freedom to choose does not mean freedom from suffering consequences. And the consequences of some actions are very far reaching and long lasting. Consequences are also "unbiased" in that they affect everyone- even for generations- even those who never sinned.

Repentance, also, does not mean freedom from suffering consequences. Repentance relieves us of the spiritual guilt and responsibility (when utilized properly) but does not change the nature of what has happened, will not reverse the results of our choices.

This is why so many scriptures speak of visiting the sins of the fathers upon the children. There's a perfect example in the Book of Mormon- Laman and Lemuel chose to reject the teachings of their father and brother and to turn to a life of sin. Their choice had far reaching affects for generations, leading to the suffering of the Lamanite people- lost without the word of God, and to the warring between the Lamanites and Nephites.

The Lamanites were certainly free to choose and free to repent, and many of them did so. But that does negate all the years and generations of suffering that resulted from the actions of two people.

Divorce is one of those actions that leads to unavoidable consequences and suffering that will affect generations. It doesn't matter what choices the divorced individuals make, whether they remarry or not, whether they repent or not. Certain things, as a result of the divorce, are just irreversible.

[mnn727]

Unlike what mnn727 might think, getting remarried doesn't make everything all better. Wish it would. Sometimes it even adds to the suffering.

I didn't say that it did, but we have the freedom to choose how it affects us. I'm on my 2nd marriage myself, first marriage ended before I became LDS but everything I did after the divorce date was all MY choice, and not because of what my ex-wife did that caused the end of our marriage. Yes, my life changed at that point, but I chose how to deal with it and no one is responsible for my choices except me. Yes, I moped around blaming her for a while, but then I picked myself up and got on with my life. Met my current wife at an LDS singles site in '98 got married a few months later and still going strong.

We choose how we react to situations we are in. I'm not saying divorce doesn't hurt or take some time to get over, but its not a life ending/depressed for the rest of your life/never get over it experience -- unless you let it be.

Edited March 8, 2012 by mnn727

[Windseeker]

I didn't say that it did, but we have the freedom to choose how it affects us. I'm on my 2nd marriage myself, first marriage ended before I became LDS but everything I did after the divorce date was all MY choice, and not because of what my ex-wife did that caused the end of our marriage. Yes, my life changed at that point, but I chose how to deal with it and no one is responsible for my choices except me. Yes, I moped around for a while, but then I picked myself up and got on with my life.

Did you have any kids from that marriage?

One might not be directly responsible but still accountable to some degree if the spouse they leave ends up marrying someone who say for example sexually abuses one of the children of that marriage. None of that would have happened if you would have stayed married. It might not be directly under ones control what their ex-spouse does but the consequences of our decisions will live on and have a life of their own.

In divorce you can repent of the things you have done, but the pain that is caused will go on. I will also say in some cases of abuse, we will be held accountable for not leaving an abusive spouse.

"By the grace of God go I" is all I can say.