Trayvon Martin

[LittleWyvern]

"Probable cause" can get you a warrant. It can even get you detained or arrested (as Zimmerman apparently was--hence the cuffs). But to get convicted, you need proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Prosecutors who try every "probable cause" case that comes across their desk lose an awful lot of cases very quickly, and (since they are elected officials) a dismal conviction rate generally means a prosecutor will shortly be looking for a new job.

Then the justification for using lethal force in self-defense is being passed out like candy in Flordia.

[Just_A_Guy]

Then the justification for using lethal force in self-defense is being passed out like candy in Flordia.

People having candy passed out to them get arrested in the middle of the night, do the perp walk on national television, have death warrants put on their heads by militant groups, have their (wrong) addresses published on Twitter by Hollywood directors with close connections to the White House, and wind up in hiding for months on end?

Give the local PD and DA a little credit here. Racial politics aside, this is a tough case. It would be tough even if everyone involved was of the same ethnicity.

[LittleWyvern]

People having candy passed out to them get arrested in the middle of the night, do the perp walk on national television, have death warrants put on their heads by militant groups, have their (wrong) addresses published on Twitter by Hollywood directors with close connections to the White House, and wind up in hiding for months on end?

Yes, the national media is crazy and weird. I already knew that

Give the local PD and DA a little credit here. Racial politics aside, this is a tough case. It would be tough even if everyone involved was of the same ethnicity.

Oh, I'm not blaming the local PD. From what I've read, they did their job well, and the decision not to arrest or investigate was made much higher up. I think that may be part of the reason why the story became nationally popular.

[MorningStar]

This situation reminds me of this:

The Simpsons - Homer Simpsons Rock Bottom interview - YouTube

[Mahone]

This shows a real lack of understanding of how the legal system works. You can only hold someone for so long until you bring official charges against him. If they don't have enough evidence, they cannot hold him, so it wastes their time to arrest him. So they investigate until they have enough evidence, or until the case is dropped. I think there is way too much rush to judgement in this case. I also think this case's elevation to national attention has more to do with current political agendas than it does about this specific case.

Way beyond national, it's made the headlines all over Europe too.

[Backroads]

I recall reading several articles that made Martin out to look like this stellar kid whom everyone wants their children to emulate. I have trouble believing it. It seems the media created an impossible image of this boy and that's what everyone loves.

[Echo2002]

I just read an article on CNN that said there had been a rash of burglaries in the past 15 months in that neighborhood, all committed by black men. I think this is probably why Zimmerman called Martin in to the police, maybe he thought Martin was looking for a house to break in to. I think the big question is, who confronted who first?

Also, just because the DA didn't want to press any charges against him that night or the next day doesn't mean they were never going to press charges. They may have wanted to wait until they could get witnesses together and get more evidence about what had happened. If they didn't think they could convict them on what they had, they are not going to take it to court.

[Guest]

Hmm... maybe something good will come out of this... burglars will not hit that neighborhood again for fear of getting caught and going on international news. :)

[john doe]

This should help refute some of the wilder claims made here and elsewhere. A partially redacted police report has been released. It states that Zimmerman was indeed bleeding from his nose and the back of his head, and that Zimmerman told the police on scene that he had yelled for help but no one had come to his aid.

Link: Trayvon Martin police report reveals Zimmerman was ?bleeding from the nose and back of head? | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

[prisonchaplain]

Maybe * asterix, rather than period. It's true in U.S. courts--not so much on MSNBC. For whatever reason, they seem determined to convict him and the local law enforcement folks. Sadly, if they get 80% right, they are lauded for aggressive investigative journalism, rather than condemned for the careers and lives they destroy by lobbing conspiracies and accusations as if their insights were simply news analysis rather than ginning up emotions.

[Traveler]

Maybe * asterix, rather than period. It's true in U.S. courts--not so much on MSNBC. For whatever reason, they seem determined to convict him and the local law enforcement folks. Sadly, if they get 80% right, they are lauded for aggressive investigative journalism, rather than condemned for the careers and lives they destroy by lobbing conspiracies and accusations as if their insights were simply news analysis rather than ginning up emotions.

Perhaps - but I think they are opeining themselves up to a very expensive law suit. If Zimmerman is killed before this is resolved I would think that MSNBC could be on the line for a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$.

The Traveler

[bytor2112]

Someone or several someones should be arrested:

Al Sharpton

Jessie Jackson

Spike Lee

New Black Panthers

All should be cuffed and charged.

[Tyler90AZ]

Perhaps - but I think they are opeining themselves up to a very expensive law suit. If Zimmerman is killed before this is resolved I would think that MSNBC could be on the line for a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$.

The Traveler

This got huge because people exercised their right and protested. Then msnbc covered the case.....

Trayvon had skittles and iced tea in his hand he just bought from 7/11. That does not sound like somebody up to no good.

[prisonchaplain]

Maybe NBC needs to be added to the "should be arrested" list--according to the liberal Huffington Post: NBC News Admits 'Error' In Editing Of George Zimmerman 911 Call

[Just_A_Guy]

If NBC had been trying to trigger race riots, I really don't see how they would have done things much differently.

[Tyler90AZ]

If NBC had been trying to trigger race riots, I really don't see how they would have done things much differently.

MSNBC may have changed the recording, but the facts still remain. We can't really know if Zimmerman committed the crime or not. However, anybody with an honest analysis of the situation knows that there are big question marks. Will an honest analysis by people be done on either side...um... I have little hope.

[Traveler]

This got huge because people exercised their right and protested. Then msnbc covered the case.....

Trayvon had skittles and iced tea in his hand he just bought from 7/11. That does not sound like somebody up to no good.

And you know this how? - from reading every word in all the police reports?

I do not know what happened - I do not know the details. I do not know if anyone was guilty or innocent and I have learned with just trying to raise children that seldom if ever can you get a accurate picture of who is guilty or innocent anyone is based on one side of the story - and never from someone that forms an opinion before talking to anybody and everybody that was there and involved

So far a police chief has had to resign and elderly couple that had nothing at all to do with anything involved in the case was forced to flee their home for fear of their very life and we now have proof that some of the news reports were deliberately altered to make Zimmerman look guilty in the eyes of the public.

If we have learned anything at all - it should be not to jump to conclusions based on what it is we think we are hearing. In fact if I am to express any opinion at this point - it is that Zimmerman should go free - even if he is 100% guilty - why? - because the whole thing has been so tainted and blown out of proportions with condemning based on innuendo and what sounds - that at this point I am not sure we can gather untainted evidence or deal with the matter in a just and un-prejudice manner.

Good grief some old guy - that does not even live in Florida was attacked and beaten in retaliation? Really? - so the smartest thing is to go with a mob and lynch Zimmerman? Why waist time gathering any more data - we all know Zimmerman is guilty because it sure sounds like he is.

The Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

Incidentally: Reports of armed neo-Nazis roaming the streets of Sarasota now being hysterically repeated by HuffPo and the Daily Beast are apparently false.

[bytor2112]

For The Daily Beast, Huffington Post, Mediaite, and The Daily News to spread such thinly-sourced claims without verification at a time when racial tensions already are high is irresponsible in the extreme.

Well....it IS an election year

[Tyler90AZ]

I understand it is innocent until proven guilty..... That does not negate the fact that everyone can form an opinion. Everybody here has seemed to form an opinion that he is not guilty. I am simply saying stuff just does not add up. As far as media sensationalizing a story, that is nothing new. That happens on all networks, especially fox news, even when it is not an election year. Does anybody remain the birthers??? Who started that??? Fox news!! In all honesty MSNBC seems highly guilty of it also, but I don't follow them.

I don't mean to be rough with fox news viewers, but I have to correct errors. You can't just blame MSNBC for everything when your network does it also.

[Just_A_Guy]

I understand it is innocent until proven guilty..... That does not negate the fact that everyone can form an opinion. Everybody here has seemed to form an opinion that he is not guilty. I am simply saying stuff just does not add up. As far as media sensationalizing a story, that is nothing new. That happens on all networks, especially fox news, even when it is not an election year. Does anybody remain the birthers??? Who started that??? Fox news!! In all honesty MSNBC seems highly guilty of it also, but I don't follow them.

I don't mean to be rough with fox news viewers, but I have to correct errors. You can't just blame MSNBC for everything when your network does it also.

Similarly, I don't really follow Fox and didn't really follow the whole birther issue much either.

FWIW - this Zimmerman issue isn't about MSNBC, which I think even most of my friends on the left would acknowledge isn't necessarily even-handed all the time. It's about NBC--one of the big three national television networks who we're always told are supposed to be "unbiased".

So of the three major networks (NBC, CBS, and ABC), we already had CBS caught red-handed presenting phony documents to sink a Republican politician in an election year (Bush national guard docs) We now have NBC caught red-handed doctoring phone conversations in order to create an issue that will help a Democratic politician in an election year. We also have leaked emails from an informal affiliation of mainstream journalists from various entities around the country showing them trying to bury some stories and pushing others in order to push the same political agenda as that which happens to be espoused by the Democratic Party (Jornolist). Yet, we conservatives are considered nuts for daring to suggest that maybe--just maybe--the mainstream media crafts its narrative in such a way as to push a partisan agenda.

That's the galling thing about this issue, for conservatives (well, me, at least). Other than the general desire to let the judicial process unfold naturally (on which right-thinking people across party lines should agree), conservatism really didn't have a dog in this fight. This was a single case of violence perpetrated by a Latino who happens to be a (registered Democrat) against a black teenager. Neither whites nor conservatives were involved.

Yet the media has made a consistent and concerted effort to present this as a sin of a "white" man against a minority, unfairly demonize the shooter, create a climate in which race riots and additional deaths are a real possibility, and then blame the whole sordid affair on conservatives and present their own politicians as the only ones who can address the issue "maturely". Meanwhile, we conservatives still wondering how the heck we got dragged into this mess in the first place.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[Vort]

Everybody here has seemed to form an opinion that he is not guilty.

Why does it seem like that? Because people here have refused to rush to judgment and condemn Zimmerman in hearsay? Only universal condemnation based on slanted media reports qualifies today as a rational reaction?

[prisonchaplain]

Everybody here has seemed to form an opinion that he is not guilty.

Even this is not necessarily true. Rather, many hear are reacting to the knee-jerk rush to judgment against Zimmerman--especially since most of the "trial by media" seems to be carried out by politically motivated sources.

Something does stink about a 17-year old, unarmed individual being shot to death. But we do not know all the facts. It's rather bizarre that NBC is promoting Zimmerman's guilt, and FOX is giving more of the defense of his action. Why is this that political?

The reality is that we don't know. We don't have all the facts, nor even half of them. The system is now in the spotlight, and so justice should prevail. My fear is that if the outcome does not please the left, there will be riots, and possible deaths or assaults. Too many people have already had to go into hiding--and not just Zimmerman either. Everyone who dares to speak on his behalf has taken precautions.

[Saldrin]

Why is this that political?

Because they want to turn it into a racial issue when its not. because think they can gain something politically from race baiting. thats what makes me mad about the whole thing. I say let the justice system sort it out, instead of radical groups putting illegal bounties on a man's head who has been charged with no crime.

and yes Tyler he is innocent. Innocent until proven guilty is how our system of justice works. It has to work that way or "rule of law" doesn't exist. I say again let the justice system sort it out, not the TV news crews.

[Tyler90AZ]

Why does it seem like that? Because people here have refused to rush to judgment and condemn Zimmerman in hearsay? Only universal condemnation based on slanted media reports qualifies today as a rational reaction?

What about the birthers who rushed to judgement? Is it only ok when it is your political side? Did I condemn Zimmerman or did I say something doesn't sound right? Shouldn't the police department be skeptical about this situation? Is their apparent lack of investigation the problem?