For the Strength of Youth: Entertainment and Media

[Montezuma300]

So I heard a quote from the For the Strength of Youth in Entertainment and Media that I need clarification on. It says, "Do not attend, view or participate in anything that is . . . violent . . . in any way. Do not participate in anything that presents . . . violence as acceptable." When they say violence do they mean fighting, wounding, blood, or what? Obviously Blood spurting everywhere and body parts getting chopped/shot off is violent. But is, for example, Legend of Zelda violent? You kill things with a sword. How about, say, a movie where they stab real people with swords? In many action movies, people are shot. Even PG movies. Some Parental Review sites put things under violence that are even just a slap. Does it mean we can't watch a movie with any violence? I live in Utah and everyone sees movies where people kill other people and fight. My friends play games where you shoot people. Is no one supposed to do that? If we aren't, how come they haven't put more emphasis on it? Where is the line? Should I not watch action movies? What is deemed violent? Thank you for your time!

[Guest]

So I heard a quote from the For the Strength of Youth in Entertainment and Media that I need clarification on. It says, "Do not attend, view or participate in anything that is . . . violent . . . in any way. Do not participate in anything that presents . . . violence as acceptable." When they say violence do they mean fighting, wounding, blood, or what? Obviously Blood spurting everywhere and body parts getting chopped/shot off is violent. But is, for example, Legend of Zelda violent? You kill things with a sword. How about, say, a movie where they stab real people with swords? In many action movies, people are shot. Even PG movies. Some Parental Review sites put things under violence that are even just a slap. Does it mean we can't watch a movie with any violence? I live in Utah and everyone sees movies where people kill other people and fight. My friends play games where you shoot people. Is no one supposed to do that? If we aren't, how come they haven't put more emphasis on it? Where is the line? Should I not watch action movies? What is deemed violent? Thank you for your time!

Avoid things glorifying violence is what I tell my children. If it's rate R (movies) or M (games), it's a No watch-no play. If it's rated under that, then I need to see it first and see if it's something ok for the kids. There are times when I tell the kids, sure, go ahead and watch it and the my kids walk out of the theater.

World War II was a violent time. Jesus Christ being nailed on the cross was crazily violent.

In my opinion and my opinion alone... Watching the History Channel talk about World War II showing all the people dying in battle... not bad. Watching the first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan... bad. Watching an LDS video on the death of Jesus Christ... not bad. Watching Mel Gibson's Passion of Christ... bad. Do you see what I'm saying?

[NeuroTypical]

This guy's post on the subject has stuck with me through the years:

If violence is merely for 'entertainment' or shock value, it falls into the 'wanton' category that others have condemned--and I would join my voice with theirs and yours in such condemnation.

However, not ALL movies are intended to be 'entertainment.' They may be held as such by some individuals, and may even have 'a side-effect' of being such--but many have the potential to be MUCH more than that. So it is with violence itself.

Let me give you an example: While attending BYU, I worked as an assistant shepherd. No, not at the MTC or anything--I mean literally. The year after I returned from my mission, I worked for the BYU Sheep Unit, where I shepherded a flock of 250+ sheep. The man I worked for--the Head Shepherd--was an older gentleman by the name of Warren Kuhl. He had worked with sheep for many years, and had a wisdom about him that I admired--he was a 'shepherd philosopher' of sorts. I loved working for him, and he and I shared many great conversations, both spiritual and secular. I learned a lot during that fall and winter about taking care of sheep--feeding, breeding, lambing--as well as about life itself from Warren.

In the spring of that year, Warren asked me to come down to one of the buildings one afternoon. He wanted to teach me some additional things about sheep. Once I arrived, he told me that we had to round up a group of them to take to slaughter house (which was located right there as part of BYU's farm). He asked if I would be willing to participate and help. I willingly did so. We rounded up the sheep, and drove them into the slaughter house. He showed me how the sheep were killed by using a special type of device (I can't remember the name). This was done by holding the foot-long metal cylinder vertically against the top of the sheep's skull. Then, by pushing a button, the device would fire a metal piston straight down through the sheep's skull and into it's brain, thus killing it instantly. Warren invited me to participate in the slaughter.

I have never hunted, nor killed anything. I am person if gentle disposition--never prone to violence nor bloodshed, so it was difficult for me to do. But Warren's approach was one of quiet invitation, not abrasive cajoling, and I did so--holding the sheeps' heads while he pulled the triggers, and even pulling that trigger once myself for one of the sheep.

Later that afternoon, as we tended the rest of flock, Warren and I talked about that experience. He explained why he invited me to participate. Warren was a quiet, gentle man--a man who loved his sheep, though NOT a vegetarian nor an animal rights activist. He felt that in today's 'convenience obsessed society,' too many people are so used to going to the supermarket and picking up their prepackaged, weighed, cellophane-wrapped bundles of meat, they do not give a second thought to the lives that are given on their behalves. We spoke of life--of death----of stewardships--of the earth and all it's creations--of God's plan. We spoke of reverence for those of God's creations that we are stewards over, those animals who's lives we take in order to sustain our own. We spoke of bloodshed, and giving thanks. The slaughter was a violent and bloody experience. It was a unique and singular experience. It was a spiritual experience that had a profound and deeply moving affect on me--one that affects my attitudes about violence and life and death to this very day. And we were 'just' talking about sheep.

Would such an experience have been appropriate for children? Most definitely NOT. Was such an experience 'entertainment'? Most definitely NOT. Was such an experience 'violent'? Most definitely. Was it appropriate? Most definitely. I am grateful for Warren's wisdom in teaching me the value of life--of non-violence--of gratitude for those who give their lives through such so we may live.

Wanton violence is NEVER appropriate--especially in entertainment. Such is--and SHOULD be--condemned by The First Presidency. But not all violence is mere entertainment, nor sport--nor are all movies.

[Vort]

This guy's post on the subject has stuck with me through the years:

Ignoring for the moment the larger question of "wanton" violence versus "necessary" violence, I completely agree with this shepherd's philosophy. If I had my way, every adult who wanted to eat meat would be required to kill and butcher at least one animal per year, just to keep in mind that meat doesn't actually come from the butcher section of the grocery store.

[Montezuma300]

I know about animal slaughter and how it is necessary. I already understand that. Thank you for that. It was a wonderful story, but it was not my question.

I want to make my own decisions and not have all things check off by my parents. I'm 17 and going to move out in the near future. I have to have my own rules.

If M rated games are bad, why do so many LDS people play them? Shouldn't this be taught more if it is a big issue?

Some people turn off the blood in games. Is it still bad?

Some things glorify violence and are for entertainment and have low ratings. The Legend of Zelda is entertainment and glorifying. Yet it is, what, rated E? Does that make violent video games without blood ok? Some movies that are PG are violent for entertainment and sometimes glorify violence. Age of Empires teaches history and is low rated, yet is is a game about war and people die.

I've not heard much about Saving Private Ryan or The Passion of Christ. Only that they are about WWII and the Atonement. I don't understand your example. Sorry.

What about a movie about war? We are allowed to go to war and defend our country. Is it ok to watch people defend our country?

Thank you for listening to me and taking your time to answer.

[Montezuma300]

After more thought, it seems as though the difference between R/M and PG-13/T in violence is blood.

[estradling75]

I know about animal slaughter and how it is necessary. I already understand that. Thank you for that. It was a wonderful story, but it was not my question.

I want to make my own decisions and not have all things check off by my parents. I'm 17 and going to move out in the near future. I have to have my own rules.

If M rated games are bad, why do so many LDS people play them? Shouldn't this be taught more if it is a big issue?

Some people turn off the blood in games. Is it still bad?

Some things glorify violence and are for entertainment and have low ratings. The Legend of Zelda is entertainment and glorifying. Yet it is, what, rated E? Does that make violent video games without blood ok? Some movies that are PG are violent for entertainment and sometimes glorify violence. Age of Empires teaches history and is low rated, yet is is a game about war and people die.

I've not heard much about Saving Private Ryan or The Passion of Christ. Only that they are about WWII and the Atonement. I don't understand your example. Sorry.

What about a movie about war? We are allowed to go to war and defend our country. Is it ok to watch people defend our country?

Thank you for listening to me and taking your time to answer.

Montezuma300 it sound to me that while you are trying to replace your parents providing the check list with one that the church provides. While becoming independent of your parents is a natural and necessary, the church isn't really going to offer a replacement check list, (or be replacement parents)

The church will not provide a list of what movies and games are acceptable. Such a list would be incredibly hard to maintain given how quickly things change. Plus people are at different points of their spirituality. If the church could and did produce such a list you would have people questioning why this game and not this movie and others saying 'I can't do x?!? why I am an adult I can make my own choices' and then others who pretty much blindly follow never gaining the understanding or growing or progressing. Just checking off the list. And you'd have still others who use it to judge other, 'Did you see so-in-so playing that rated M game? What sinner. We should tell the bishop'

And those are just some of the reason I can think of off the top of my head. The church does not provide detailed list of everything we should and should not do. The for Strength of Youth pamphlet is about as detailed as the church gets. The church does however teach principles and provided guidelines. A few of those principles and guidelines are prayer and following the promptings of the spirit. That is were you can get your 'check list'. You are clearly studying and pondering this issue which is good. Take it to the Lord in prayer, ask for his guidance, his help. Then listen to the promptings you get in return. You will find yourself growing in understanding as the Lord provides you with the 'check list' of what he want you to do or not do.

[Montezuma300]

It may sound to you that it is that way, but it's not. I don't want a list. I'm not trying to replace my parents with the church. I was stating specific games to be examples, not to be checked off. I want to know what is appropriate and what is not.

What I also meant about the church talking more about it is different too. I meant that if M rated games are wrong, why doesn't the church make a bigger deal about it? Not a list. Everyone is doing it in my ward and stake and stakes around me. If it's bad, why does everyone do it? Why doesn't the church warn more about it?

So, forget all that first paragraph conversation. Here's my thing. Some lower rating movies or games glorify violence, yet they are OK. Some lower rating movies and games also are violent for entertainment yet are universally accepted as OK. So are those movies and games bad?

It seems to me that the difference between the forbidden and the acceptable is blood. Add blood to Mario and it becomes M. Take blood away from violent war movies and it would be rated PG-13. So does blood being involved make it bad? That feels like the right answer.

[estradling75]

Ok so you don't want a check-list.. Change it to 'draw a line' then

You seem to want someone in the church to say this far and no farther. This has some minor differences from a checklist but the end result is much the same. You draw the line for yourself based on your prayers and studies and where you feel the Lord would have you be.

You seem to be reaching the point were you are finding your own answers, which is great. But no one here can validate if your personal impressions and guidance from the Lord. Some of us can agree with you and some of us will disagree with where you are drawing line, but in the end it comes down to you doing what you think the Lord would have you do. And everyone else doing what they think the Lord would have them do.

[Vort]

Montezuma, when you were baptized you were given the gift of the Holy Ghost. This situation is a perfect example of when you need to use that gift. The Holy Ghost can and will tell you all things if you learn to listen.

It's fine, even good, to seek after commandments to obey, but it's not good to seek to be commanded in all things.

[Anddenex]

In this situation I am always reminded of Joseph Smith's words, "I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves."

This is a perfect example by the church of teaching correct principles and letting us govern ourselves. In correlation with the principle of violence we are taught in the 13th Article of Faith "if there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."

I also recognize, that we are continually learning as a people and as individuals, and what you might accept now as OK, you may no longer think is OK as you grow in the gospel, serve a mission. As well, what you may think is not OK now, you may switch your perspective and feel it is OK.

As Vort said,

"This situation is a perfect example of when you need to use that gift. The Holy Ghost can and will tell you all things if you learn to listen."

[Isaac123]

I have recently actually been thinking a lot about this and I have come to a few conclusions that I believe and that you need to pray about to get a witness of the truth or not. Yourself.

1. People in Utah are not perfect examples but they are mostly all good people.

2. The statement you cited is pretty self explanatory when it talks about violence of any kind.

3. Sword violence is violence. Even in a fun game as Zelda.

4. The standard is one of keeping ourselves from being of the world.

5. Even in Utah you have to stand up for standards and may be received a hard time but I promise you will begin to feel more sensitive to the evils of violence as you refrain in entertainment.

6. This is how's I see it. There are very few popular movies coming out that meet the standards of the Church.

7. Doing this helps keep us more spotted from the world and frees up our time to do more worthwhile and satisfactory things.

8. People in Utah are not perfect and could use your example if you decided to follow this standard.

9. There are consequences that are Not good nor fun that come with participating in violent entertainment. And there are blessings with refraining.

This is my testimony. I know this is true. I have lived or striven to live this for little bit(about a month) and have already felt greater abundance of the Spirit and I feel less desensitized to the evils of violence in the media. I had the same hard time as you did. It took me talking to someone about it to really start to live it. I know it is hard when it seems everyone around you is walking on both sides of the line with this but I don't think that with our culture many people realize and/or understand this. It is a sacrifice but you will be happier and feel freer. I have. I hope it helps. God bless you.

Let me know what you think. Revelation takes thinking about it a lot, sincere prayer, scripture study and doing what you know you should be doing. You Will be blessed as you follow the Savior and His guidance by following the promptings of the Spirit.

[Isaac123]

To add to my remarks, I learned on my mission that if you do not know for sure but believe it to be so, act in faith that it is the right thing to do and the Lord will reveal what you should do as you move and you act. Also, this is very sacred but I had the feeling to share it. Right after I finished writing the reply I went to read the Book of Mormon for my Personal Scripture Study and was awed and amazed at the words which applied directly to my thoughts about this matter and I invite you to read them. He the Lord is talking through Isaiah. Nephi and Jacob loved Isaiah. I love him more every time I read from his words, lately. I encourage you to pray before and after you read and study this text... 2 Nephi 8 the whole thing (the scriptures I read, however, are 7 through the end of the chapter.)

I hope it helps. Let me know. I would be greatly pleased if you read and applied. It is good to know others are thinking about this problem besides Leaders of Tue Church. I believe there are more, many more that have that concern and have applied the principles we talked about. And yes, I would like you to know that Zelda has been on my mind as I have considered this principle both for myself and being a light to believers.

I thank you for posting about your feelings on this. I hope that this helps.

Sincerely, your fellow Utahn

[LiveTheGospel]

Would you eat a bittersweet chocolate bar if it was good for your health?  That's largely what this issue is about.  Much of the entertainment that many call bad are called that way because they are bitter in the stomach.  But the lessons learned are sweet.  Revelation 10:10 - "And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter."

Edited August 26, 2016 by LiveTheGospel